Is it possible to find love?

It's actually something I figured out recently, a strong argument for why female love for men actually does NOT exist, it WILL blow your mind:

Look at Yuri and Yaoi, and compare the two, and it is really striking:

You need to understand:
Yuri is the ultimate MALE romance,
Yaoi is the ultimate FEMALE romance.

I understood this when I watched a lot of Yuri and Shojo-Ai anime: The behavior and antics of it all are distinctly male, while the targets are female.
It is basically a mind trick: What if girls could love us back the way we do?
And so the characters in Yuri and Shojo-Ai are girls who are actually acting out the male role of the relationship.

Yaoi is strictly about sexual and romantic tension. It is the same thing in reverse:
It is two men acting out the female role of the relationship.

And now, we get to the most devastating observation, it is in fact absolutely vicious:
Yaoi tends to be about relationships based on earthly desire, and sexual tension.
Nothing surprising here.

Yuri tends to be SekaiKei.
SekaiKei: a romance that surpasses the world and transcends time and space against all odds.
The typical SekaiKei ending is: The main character has to choose between the world and her love and decides to sacrifice the world for her love and then their love transcends time and space. This is the perfect male romance.
youtube.com/watch?v=7YnsWmARKnY

Ironically this implies, that shallow sexual tension and earthly desires are the perfect female romance. Therefore they can't love.
It's really sad in its irony.

TLDR: Yaoi is perfect female love, Yuri is perfect male love. Therefore women can't love men.

This is all original by me, so if you have something to criticize or you think that Yaoi is more then I give it credit for, then I am more then happy to listen to you.

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When I think of love, I think of a willingness to die for another. So it exists but is rare, and exists mostly in the hearts of men. Women, (modern ones anyway) lack the capacity to care about anyone more than themselves.

This is spot on unfortunately. The masculine is the destructive, order bringing force. It is discerning to what is and challenges it. Sekaikei is the ultimate challenge. On the other hand, the feminine is the creative, chaos bringing force. It is receptive to what is and nurtures it. If the society is unstable, the women will also become unstable in nurturing instability. If the society was in order, women's love would become more powerful than the men's though because it loves without restraint in complete abandon, but society bombards their minds with earthly desire and their energy is wasted nurturing transient emotions. The masculine also suffers. The confused masculine sits and does nothing, watching the fires burn, trying to discern the chaos before him so he may take meaningful action, but if no meaning is found he will sit to his grave.

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But wouldn't this imply that it's the state of society that prevents women from loving?
Because you say that the feminine is nurturing towards "what is", and that to have women focus their energy on men they would need to be aligned with what is.

However, it seems to me that it is fundamentally against female nature to love men. It's not societies fault, and there is no way to change it besides completely radical measures that go against nature itself.

>society bombards their minds with earthly desire and their energy is wasted nurturing transient emotions
Even if this is true, their energy was never meant to be directed towards men.
Nietzsche said: "The females goal is always the child, men are only a means towards that end"
It seems like even in old times, women never had the ability to love men.
It's a pipe dream.
I feel like the whole idea of women loving men originates from the feminist idea that women are "just like men", by applying our own theory of mind to them, we THINK, that they think like we do, and therefore it appears logical that they should be able to love just like us.
There is no evidence that this idea existed prior to feminism, and many historical sources seem REMARKABLY united on this issue.

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This is not only a strong argument, but this is also actual empirical evidence that supports the case that women can't love. A total black-pill

I disagree.

Men, being more visual and easier to stimulate visually, will choose hentai for sexual release.
This is why their yuri stuff doesn't need to include that.

Women are less about visual stimulus, more about sexul tension, the vibe of the moment, building up to it, etc.
This is why yaoi has some elements of visual sexual stuff (because women are SOMEWHAT visual still), but they focus on other things.
A womn will focus on the fantasy to get off, rather than watching some extre ely visual hentai, like a man would.

On the other hand, I can't believe what I just wrote.
The fuck are we even talking about here?
We should leave the house more often.
Fucking hell man.

It doesn't. I know I sound childish but
I knew because the love of my life left me. I'm going off topic but I'm kicked out of the gene pool forever.

Its is real but only for good looking people
Sorry OP

It does, but it's rare. And it's not for shallow people nor brainlets, they could never understand it.

As weird as it sounds, I think I have a crush on you for being into weird shit and aware enough to recognize it. You sound cool as hell, nigga.

Thanks, friend.
I wish we could suck each other's dicks now. That would be great.

Only if you're okay with my dick size being in the negatives.

Yes. That's cute.
What is it's actuall size?

Never measured but probably -5 inches?

Similar size here.
If I fap a lot, probably 4.5"
If I do a week of NoFap, up to 5.5"

That's a big variation, I guess, but it's real.

This is interesting because I actually agree with the observations:

Yuri will not include hard hentai that men will want to get off to.
It is an entirely different entity. Yuri is the male romance, it is not the male sexuality that is displayed here.
This is also why there are many yurifags who will attack TO THE DEATH anyone who lewds yuri characters, as strange as it sounds.

The thing is that you put Yaoi in the same category as porn, but not Yuri.
And that is precisely the point.
There is no female equivalent to Yuri.
Because it IS about real love, which women can't feel.
Yaoi is just about earthly desires and sexual tension, like porn. Yes!
What exactly do you disagree on? You only posted further points that support my case...

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>What exactly do you disagree on?

First of all, you yourself acknowledge that you compared romance to porn.
Fair enough.

I'm not too familiar with the anime niches and all that stuff, but I do know one thing,
WOMEN ARE THE MAIN CONSUMERS OF ROMANTIC CONTENT WORLD-WIDE

Be it books, movies, music, women are assocuated with romantic media, and it is unusual to meet a man who is into it.
They do exist, of course, but thay are a tiny fraction of the demographic.

I'm going to bed and this thread probably won't be still up but I want to say the problem is men have become weak. A woman cannot become devoted to weakness, everything in her will move against that and she will fall off.

Nietzsche's views are too animalistic and ignorant to the nature of life which is always seeking to become something more than itself, not just reproduce. Reproduction is a tiny speck of that. Life is always seeking something more and something more, heading towards an infinite expansion, but it's going about it in a hopeless manner, eating this, buying that, enjoying things, fucking others, building stuff, loving people, expressing itself, knowing things, ultimately trying to be part of the greater whole.

When the masculine is strong the feminine will receive it and want to follow its direction. If it is weak, the feminine will reject it and the stronger forces will invade and take over. However, if the feminine is sustained in one direction long enough and intensely enough, unfailing devotion will happen. Of course, they do not come to love the same way men love, but they are capable of devotion in their own way if there are strong men around and a conducive society. Weak men want masculine love because they're too weak to direct the feminine, but it's never going to happen like that.

This idea that everyone should get married and have kids is the pipe dream because it's a perversion of life. Look at how terrorized people are on here that their parents had them. Their parents exercised their freedom ignorantly and this is the result. Imagine the monsters their children would create if they continued this ignorance. There's so much more to life than sex and love yet people are trying to force it because they don't know how to be still within themselves.

>WOMEN ARE THE MAIN CONSUMERS OF ROMANTIC CONTENT WORLD-WIDE
Men are socially not allowed to express emotions, it's not something you can just do, so you need to have a certain level of abnormality to do that.

>you yourself acknowledge that you compared romance to porn.
Yes, I do.
However, you need to realize, that the moment we agree on that Yaoi is porn because:
"about sexul tension, the vibe of the moment, building up to it, etc."
At that moment, you scorched your own ground, because by the same logic 100% of romance fiction for women fall into the same category, "porn", because it fits exactly the same criteria.

Maybe I should rephrase it, the strongest possible variation of my claim is:
"all romance fiction for women is porn", and there is no stronger argument in favor of this then the one you brought up.

Yaoi anime is not the same as romantic novels, movies and music.
Just like sitcoms are not the same as fanservice ecchi anime.

And the number 17 is not the same as the color orange.
This is literally not an argument.

Are or are not romantic novels, movies and music, about anything else besides
>"about sexul tension, the vibe of the moment, building up to it, etc."
?

That was your argument as to why Yaoi should be considered porn. So surely you can name one reason why Yaoi should be considered porn but romantic movies should not.

>autism intensifies
>why has god abandoned us?

Madonna whore complex is nothing new

I have found an insecure clingy gf after years of thinking I'd be an incel

I love Kass with every fiber of my being! More than any man or woman who I'be ever loved and has ever loved me!

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Thanks, for telling me this.
I had no idea that this was a thing. I just the header, and it seems to fit my observations to a T. I will definitely read up on this, thanks again.

You're a brainlet man.

"printed or visual material containing the explicit description or display of sexual organs or activity, intended to stimulate erotic rather than aesthetic or emotional feelings" -PORN
"a genre of fiction dealing with love in an idealized way." -ROMANCE

>"all romance fiction for women is porn"
How can this be true when there is BL or hundreds of pages long books of ROMANCE with not a touch of erotica?
It doesn't work unless you use porn and romance interchangeably, and that's playing dirty.
You're trying to elevate men's love above women's, while judging reality, it's not only incorrect, but the opposite.

Women consume more ROMANCE and less PORN (a really depraved industry)
Men consume more PORN and less ROMANCE

How many Yaoi or romance novels targeted towards women have you consumed? I'm going to guess 0. That's fine. Just don't go around making big assumptions.
Yuri and BL share a lot of tropes, especially the cutesy or devoted ones you talk about. There are explicit and non explicit works in both of those genres. The later are not limited to the pure and godly male romantic mind, you just don't care to look it up.
The only difference I would say is that women, because they have a lower libido, don't need pages upon pages or hours of porn to get off, so the little material that is needed can be incorporated with the romance part, but it's often separated anyway. You especially see this separation with fanfiction, where there are quick porny ones to get off or novel length ploty romance. (I guess they have a maddona-whore of their own.)

You're the brainlet user.
Even if not explicit romance novels would be the equivalent to softcore porn for females.
The romance is consumed for female sexual urges.

And what matters is the majority of reprensentation in yaoi/yuri so that a trend can be made, not on the individual few cases that break it. Outliers will always exist.

Not the other user but countless evidence throughout history shows how much greater a man's love / dedication is towards his love than a female towards her's.
Just accept that men will always love greater than women.

user, first and foremost you have misunderstood the chain of hypotheticals at work here. It's about definitions.
I was saying that I'm willing to concede that Yaoi is basically porn IF (a hypothetical) you define:
>"about sexul tension, the vibe of the moment, building up to it, etc."
as porn. And
>"all romance fiction for women is porn"
is explicitly derived from that statement. It was made to prove a point.
It's a stronger claim that implies my position but is not necessary for my position.

If you say:
>"printed or visual material containing the explicit description or display of sexual organs or activity, intended to stimulate erotic rather than aesthetic or emotional feelings" -PORN
Then fair enough, that's a different definition, and then most of Yaoi isn't porn.
And that wasn't even an important point I wanted to prove.

Also before I start:
>The later are not limited to the pure and godly male romantic mind, you just don't care to look it up.
You mean the former, right?
Well, I am more than aware of the full depth of how deprived Yuri can be, up to full-blown messed up hard guro.

>cutesy or devoted
The observation is that many Yuri anime are full-blown SEKAIKEI, that's the most radical of all genres. But you claim that Yaoi can also be cutesy or devoted, that's really not the same thing.
SekaiKei is not about being cutesy or devoted.
SekaiKei is about love as an end in itself.
And if this is a misunderstanding, then please link me a Yaoi that is SekaiKei, I'm more then happy to watch it.
I didn't find anything like that when I did my research, all Yaoi I found is slice of life romances with strong sexual tension.

Women can never really love like men do because they don't chase. They choose. So in the back of their minds the thought will always come "What if I could do better?", while the man can't because he's already doing his best chasing a girl and doing what he can to keep her paying for shit and providing for her etc.

Women can't fucking love for long. Real news at 6.

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psychcentral.com/news/2009/11/11/men-more-likely-to-abandon-partner-during-illness/9479.html

I don't think love between strangers can actually exist. It seems more like "tolerance" or lust.

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user, first
>Divorce
You know that if your husband dies, you get all the money, right?
We don't know how many were married and how many were just partners, let's be fair.
second
most people don't truly love like that, it's a rare enough thing. If you say that 20% abandoned their partners, well 80% DIDN'T.

Love is rare, no matter what you claim, even if men are more or less likely to love, no matter how you look at it, less then 50% of all people truly love their partner, and that is generous, it is far far less, it's just a lower bound to make a case.

You are dealing with another RARE occurrence.
If you have two RARE occurrences, and one is significantly more common but STILL RARE in one sex over the other, you CAN NOT make a CAUSATION to a different rare occurrence.
YOU DON'T EVEN HAVE A CORRELATION, it's utterly UTTERLY impossible to find ANY connection between those two data sets. And you just CLAIM A CAUSATION.
THIS IS NOT HOW STATISTICS WORK.

I'm not the user you were arguing with previously.

>You mean the former, right?
No, I don't mean the former. You're making it seem like portrayal of devoted love is a yuri, or male, thing. It's not. There are works like that in BL too.

>please link me a Yaoi that is SekaiKei
I don't read too much BL/Yaoi myself. Maybe 2 titles a year, yet one of them was what you're looking for. Huh... must not be so rare?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No._6
(This example is also not Yaoi, as you insist on calling it. Yaoi is dated and mostly refers to explicit work. In your original work you equated Yuri and Shojo-Ai but not Yaoi and Shonen-Ai. Hmm, maybe you don't know what you're talking about, and just want to justify your worldview? Could this be? Hmm...)

From TVtropes definition:

>Starts with very normal regular life. Then the central character becomes aware of a profound danger to the world at large.
Check. Protag is unaware of how dark his world really is, and later endangered.

>Said character meets another character who is also aware of the incoming apocalypse and may strive to prevent it.
Check. He meets love interest that knows everything about the apocalypse

>A relationship forms. There may be little description of how exactly the fate of the couple is related to the troubles of the world at large, but it is clear that the relationship between characters, rather than what they are actually doing, is their primary leverage to define what happens to all their surroundings.
Check. It's not explained until the end.

>In the climax of the story, the characters are forced to choose between settling things on either the micro-level of the relationship itself, or the macro-level of how it affects the world at large. Typically, both are exclusive.
Check (SPOILER) One of them has to die.

Okay but then
>countless evidence throughout history shows how much greater a man's love / dedication is towards his love than a female towards her's.
What evidence?

Even though the burden of proof is pn me for saying that I have better things to do than make a point.

I am basing it off of old poetry, aesops, and general male attributes of being yhe pursuer and needing to hold onto that.

>you equated Yuri and Shojo-Ai but not Yaoi and Shonen-Ai
user, if you really think that you can score any points here with calling me out on word use, then you are a complete and utter retard(ed roastie). I don't care how you call it. I won't write out every time "shonen-ai or Yaoi but not Bara" when It's really obvious what I mean. Also
> just want to justify your worldview? Could this be? Hmm...
Triggered by my oppinion?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No._6
Thanks, I will watch that. Maybe I will be able to marathon it before the thread expires, then I will tell you my thoughts.
But I can already tell you what my problem probably will be with this:
>One of them has to die.
Well, I don't like the TV-Tropes definition of SekaiKei, it's actually a very new concept and the way they describe it is not how I use the term.
Maybe I should have explained that.
I like to use the term: SekaiKei ending, in the following way:
A character decides that the world itself is worth less than their love because meaning itself exists only relative to character values, but love is an end in itself. And therefore it is worth more than the world, because the value of the world is measured relative to love, and not the other way around.
If the character chooses the world over love, then I clearly reject it.

That's not my quote.
Also what he says

>old poetry
Women weren't allowed to "publish" with a female name until recently. If they wrote romance towards males under a male pseudonym it'd be gay, kinda the m/m fan work, Yaoi and BL nowadays, oh wow, could these be related?

>aesops
Same as above

>general male attributes of being yhe pursuer
Males have a higher sex drive. So they will purse more purely for sex. When it comes to long term, males inititate because of tradition, the tradition where initiating meant obtaining, ever since it doesn't anymore and women can reject a proposal, more women have started pursuing and males not doing so.

>needing to hold onto that
Tradition, and the reason it even became a thing. Males want to have the choice while stripping it from the woman. Of course you'd want to be the one to choose your partner.

The reasons behind your evidence doesn't sound rooted in love, rather desire to dominate and rob of autonomy, unless that's what you consider love. I personally believe that is what "male love" is ,myself, so no shame.

>I have better things to do than make a point.
Me too, trust me. I'm not on this board to engage in arguments this deluded, but it irks me when people think their fantasy is reality.

>user, if you really think that you can score any points here with calling me out on word use
I'm not. But I found it interesting to point out.
I'm not calling you out on word use, I'm calling you out on trying to argue for something when you haven't done your homework on it. You clearly know about Yuri, Shojo-Ai and its tropes, but the other side is a big amalgam that you don't care to inform yourself on, yet try to dish.

>A character decides that the world itself is worth less than their love because meaning itself exists only relative to character values, but love is an end in itself. And therefore it is worth more than the world
I didn't want to spoil too much, especially since you said you'd watch it. But since girls and their content are yucky and you won't watch it anyway:
The protagonist is fatally wounded. Dead. His love interest decides to stay with him and sing to him while his environment is getting blown off by an explosion or something similar. He's decided he doesn't want to run and live without his love.
What else can I say? It's the literal definition of what you just described right fucking now, he chooses to die for his love above the world.

Why do you dislike women so much user?