What is the best evidence we have for an afterlife?

Not the user that posted that, but I think he's saying that because energy can't be created or destroyed, and that there's a possibility our consciousness is some kind of energy, then that energy will still be around after we die and could move to something else

I might have misunderstood but whatever

One thing I always figured:

Just because there is no afterlife doesn't mean a god doesn't exist.

I have family members who are shamans. They interact with dead family members all the time. They spew out crazy nonsense that turns out to be true.

I tried for about half a decade to find such a thing and failed miserably.
Unfortunately, it really does seem like theres nothing after death.
Youre better off reading 19th/20th century existential philosophy since otherwise its nihilism.

The thermal energy in your body is constantly dissipating into your surroundings, but your "consciousness" isn't going anywhere.

Pretty much spot on. I struggle articulating through writing sometimes

The answer to nihilism isn't believing in an afterlife... muh afterlife junkies are the most nihilistic and lizard brained of the religious.

Consciousness is separate from energy. Are you conscious in your dreams? Yes. But you're not using energy

This was one of the reasons I stopped believing in Christianity.

I realized that people really only cared about an afterlife. If Christianity was the same, saying there was a god, BUT didn't promise a heaven or hell, I HIGHLY doubt as many people would still believe. But if Christianity DIDNT have a god, but promised a heaven and hell, there wouldn't be much of a change in followers.

Why are you fuckers so concerned with an afterlife when you cant even sort out your current life

Consciousness is just an effect of your biological proesses, specifically your nervous system. It's not some magical ghost goo that can "go" anywhere.

>Well since you cant experience non-consciousness
>that retarded tautology

dunno why they always repeat that before you were born crap when sleep or losing consciousness is a much better and more traditional example, after all the sleep was called the little brother of death for a reason

There is no afterlife, but there is reincarnation in a certain sense. The universe is deterministic, and cyclical. Your sense of self is an illusion, and you'll live out your life repeating the life you've lived, as well as many near-infinite variations.

You know what i meantjjj

user I'm glad you posted this. I believe in pretty much the same thing, but I've always been hesitant to post about it for some reason.

Honestly I don't think arguments will do it for you. Anyone who genuinely believes in the afterlife has not convinced themselves through reasoned thought.

Try this: wait until night time (don't know what time zone you're in now but whatever). Make sure you're alone. Walk outside and look up at the night sky. Remain present within yourself at all times but allow your thoughts to wonder. See if you feel anything interesting, anything one might describe as mystical. Truly try your bet to grasp the enormity of the stars above you and the strangeness of existence itself. You might begin to feel a odd sense of awe, a feeling of incredible perplexion at the eternal mystery of everything. Or you might not...

This will only work if you are in the right frame of mind. You will most likely only feel indifferent or bored. But if you manage yo achieve this feeling (one might describe it as a minor spiritual exercise), then you can begin to understand the thought process that goes into believing in the afterlife. Not only the afterlife, but God himself. I personally am unable to generate this feeling in myself since I currently find myself in a sort of permanent numbness which does not permit for such experience. Now whether that corresponds to some external reality (the true absence of anything greater than ourselves) or whether I'm simply unable to perceive something which is in fact out there, this question remains to be resolved. I personally hope the truth lies in the latter. Hope this helps you user.

>What is the best evidence we have for an afterlife?
well, apart from en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near-death_experience we don't have any evidence and nde isn't really a hard evidence since it can be explained in a few different ways

Hi OP, please watch this video to inspire hope about life after death. I promise that it is worth your time. youtube.com/watch?v=oBsI_ay8K70

Well at some point in the future humanity could get so advanced that we create an afterlife and have such an understanding of the brain that we can literally just transfer your mind, not a copy, to it. And do that to everyone whos ever lived.

"Feeling" something, no matter how strongly, does not make it a reality.
No matter how hard you're seized by the immensity of reality and how intensely you wish for God & the afterlife to exist, unless rationally proven, it's nothing more than wishful fantasies and self-convincing.

People have a hard time understanding, because it isn't something you can explain, only an understanding you can intuit. You can't explain the sensation of red, but you can point to objects that appear red to you and claim "*that* is red!". Likewise, you can't really explain this intuition, and there aren't any readily available things you can point to in order for someone else to get it. In this way, it is a hard topic to talk about.

The realization that all aspects of this world are an illusion immediately detaches you from the world, and meditations on this fact ultimately lead to your liberation.

you don't need to believe in anything to feel "a feeling of incredible perplexion at the eternal mystery of everything", it shouldn't be spiritual or something, try to dig philosophy and you understand that this world is pretty perplexing outside of the everyday life groove

Not really you any more than a perfect copy of you would be you. "You will" implies a succession of lives, but what you're talking about is just that sometime in the future something exactly like you might form again. It's not like you're gonna go to sleep and wake up as that person.

oh come on, how was it on that nietsche meme, amor fati, bitch, prepare to the eternal recurrence

Attached: 1385324960196[1].png (642x1260, 249K)

I'm not OP, but have come here to dismiss some arguments.
Unless you are a platonist, there is no reason to believe energy exists - it is just part of an abstract description of causal events.
Moreover, its conservation needs not maintain "form": kinetic energy can be converted into heat, and "consciousness energy", which is now understood as mostly electrical and chemical interactions, can also be converted into "not consciousness energy"
As for , cognitive dissonance would not allow it, and also there's no good reason to believe in any religion over some other.
Makes no sense. Can you perceive neutrinos? No. However, that does not mean that neutrinos do not exist. You not perceiving something does not mean it does not exist. Death exists, know of it, live with it, experience it.
String theory babble. Dimensions do not mean what you want them to mean.

To OP: You will not ever be truly convinced.

>It's not like you're gonna go to sleep and wake up as that person.
This is a metaphysical issue that doesn't play nicely with logic as we understand. If 'you' (and i use this term loosely, not because it means anything, but because otherwise this post would be impossible to read) wake up as someone else, 'you' aren't going to have any memories of being anyone else, because 'you' would have the memories of the person you're waking up as. This is what I mean when I say that our sense of self is an illusion. If you identify instead with the universal consciousness (that is, consciousness at its most fundamental level, a structure that must be present in all conscious things), then you realize immediately that the concept of 'you' makes no sense.

Sometimes you have to progress past the sort of "logic and facts" rhetoric that the likes of Dawkins and Shapiro love to go on about. Feeling necessarily plays a massive role in our understanding of the world. Humans are by their very nature feeling creatures, and to simply dismiss all that we 'feel' as necessarily bullshit does the world a disservice I think. It might just be wishful thinking, but this is something I'm slowly coming to understand.

Do you think a rock is conscious?

I do dig philosophy. In fact, I've just started my first year of uni studying it. I think the spiritual and the philosophical are in many ways very closely linked. I think they try to tackle similar issues through different systems of understanding. And I don't think one is necessarily inferior to the other.

It depends on how you define conscious. The nature of reality is monistic, and the fundamental substance of this monism is the mind, and in that way I think a rock is part of conscioussness. I do not think that if I throw a rock, that the rock would be aware of its state of being thrown.

This meme is fucking retarded.

Eternal recurrence isn't about being a dumbfuck driven by impulse rather than rationality. It's just living your life in such a way that you would be content with having to live it again an infinite amount of times.

>thinking evidence when talking about metaphysical issues

>actually getting influenced by other people's opinion

Topkek

Attached: qiev6.jpg (1500x1005, 388K)

>the fundamental substance of this monism is the mind
How is "the mind" a substance? You cant have a mind without something like a brain.

No, it's about being content with it no matter what you do and what happens.

It is more satisfying if you TRULY believe. That is what I am trying to accomplish

it's literally what nietsche wrote in his books, it deals with his superman idea not only with eternal recurrence and amor fati

your idea of tolerating eternal recurrence is.. ugh a carbon copy of some christian stuff i guess, except your ideas are inconsistent because you have claimed earlier the world to be deterministic and therefore your behavior is already predetermined so not like you can change anything and choose what life you can have... but well it's the same with many versions of christianity too, i suppose your background it's protestant christians

Oh, you are retarded. That makes sense now

I hope I can get eaten by some hot QT.

and that's the stoic tackle on the eternal recurrence

>Conduct me, Zeus, and thou, O Destiny,
>Wherever thy decree has fixed my lot.
>I follow willingly; and, did I not,
>Wicked and wretched would I follow still.

Attached: 0dcee5585a0792f188ac2606e509cc10171126cf[2].jpg (753x802, 214K)

That's a good question. The mind is made up of information, which happens to be represented by way of structures in the brain. This information can exist in any form, and it necessarily forms the entirety of my experience at any given moment. This information is eternal, in the sense that so long as the universe we live in exists, that information will always form the entirety of my experience. Does that make sense? It's important to note that you're coming at this from a fundamentally different aspect than I am (your aspect could be described as "reject the mind, the world is the center of being," and my aspect can be described as "reject the world, the mind is the center of being,". Accordingly, we're going to have different ideas of what is truth, which is a fundamental problem if we're going to have a genuine debate on the nature of the world, even though the two stances are two sides of the same coin.)

Yep. Luckily god knows the ones who are truly in it for the goodness of the spirit. Those who are in it for the afterlife get eternal suffering :)

Not OP, but life is boring and sucks. Nothing could make this life good. I am sad and bored all the time and I rarely even know why I feel the way I feel. Daydreaming of a paradise where I escape these emotions is nice to think about

Yeah this sums it up op just give up

Attached: 1540769726416.png (380x496, 132K)

We do not know what consciousness is you fuckhead. It is hilarious how these SuperSeriousScienceTypes do not give a FUCK about being honest when it comes to our understandings of consciousness. Right now it appears as though we have made a fundamental error in our way of thinking about base reality. Materialism is likely wrong

No. Please no. This cannot be true. Please. This cannot be the truth, right? I am not cursed to this forever, am I? No. No THIS IS NOT TRUE user NO

I'm not sure which user you're assuming I am, but that ain't me pal.
^ I'm literally the guy that made this post, so your assumption that I'm Christian is way off.

I'll admit I'm not as experienced on Nietzsche's work as I should be, but what I said was what I had gathered from the research I had done. But if that's really what Nietzsche believed, then I think he's a dumbfuck.

But why did you think "living life as if you'd have to live it an infinite amount of times" was a Christian thing at all? If anything, it goes against basic Christian philosophy. Just curious.

>The mind is made up of information, which happens to be represented by way of structures in the brain
I don't think that makes any sense. The physical structure of the brain is as fundemental as you can get.
If a domino falls and hits another domino then that domino will fall also. That's what is happening in your brain and in turn what determines your mind. Not "information", which itself requires a mind to have any meaning.

You were hesitant because it is fucking retarded, kid. Trust your instincts next time

That is amor fati.

Doubt it will do shit, but I will try, and try as hard as I can to take it seriously. I can't say I don't expect my experience to be very similar to yours though...

If you don't want to be a nihilist, read Nietzche. He literally dedicated his philosophical pursuits to providing counter-arguments for Nihilism, rather than giving up in the face of such despair.

The afterlife isn't your answer, and you will never be convinced of it since you realize the absurdity of believing in an unprovable concept.

No, personally I have it pretty well thought out, and it makes a lot of sense to me.

Really I was hesitant because I didn't think anyone would give a fuck.

One of the central messages of Christianity is the fact that it's the only way to go to heaven. I get you're trying to criticize believers, but they focus on it because it's a central part of the entire theology of the religion itself. Christianity is incredibly afterlife driven. To think it's about saving yourself from hell, well yeah, that's kind of the point.

Interesting video for sure. Definitely has not changed my worldview, but it is a good start. Thanks user

But the brain doesn't have to be the only thing that represents that structure. Suppose you have a computer program that can accurately simulate a complete brain, biochemistry and all, and suppose you make a copy of my brain and simulate it on the computer. The same information is present, even though now it's stored as a series of bits. As far as that simulated brain is concerned, it's experiencing whatever it is that "I" am experiencing at the time of the simulation (although it will deviate at some point, unless they're also simulating the same inputs to the simulated brain constantly).

Here's a similar, though more abstract, example. Suppose you can work out the Theory of Everything, an equation which covers all aspects of physics. You can input any number of variables, and it will accurately predict the state of the universe at any chosen point along this universal function. A version of me typing this post would exist within such a function, because the information that makes up my brain state would exist within that function. The the information would be the *same* as it is now, meaning that I would have no idea whether or not I am or am not just part of some universal function (it doesn't matter). If the world is deterministic, which it is, then all parts of the function can be derived from any other constituent part. Do you follow?

Don't worry user, there's plenty of timelines where you're happy, and plenty where you're worse off than where you are. All you can do is take the knowledge you have now, and liberate yourself from existence through reasoning.

How will they do that to people who already died though?

Look into near death experiences. Granted, there's a lot of different religions that have these but generally they experience the same thing. Also look into hospice nurses talking about people on their deathbed. They'll usually be talking about the light, "hallucinating" angels, or seeing their dead family members.

>realize the absurdity of believing in an unprovable concept
Someday you'll realize you are nowhere near as smart as you think you are. Then you will understand that there is only one answer. If you don't completely have your head up your ass, take a little bit of time out of your day and read about bio-chemistry. Understand the impossible "absurd" situation it would take for life to magically spark on this planet. Won't take you long, maybe 20 mins tops. Or don't look that up and just stay ignorant and prideful.

>As far as that simulated brain is concerned, it's experiencing whatever
You are assuming that it could concern itself, and that it wouldn't just be a simulation. There is no saying that the physical structure of this simulated brain would produce an effect similar to your experience.
>Suppose you can work out the Theory of Everything, an equation which covers all aspects of physics.
I don't see how that is possible. That would require something bigger than the universe for it to be contained in.

>spiritual drivel
>"oh we are one, maaaan"
>"peace and love, maaaaaaaaaan"
Just stop

How is getting influenced by others opinions bad? Should you read nothing, study nothing, and just go with your base intuition on all issues? This makes no sense you dumbass

Just keep an open mind - millennia of religious belief have not come out of nowhere and there might be more to this world that one might initially give credit for. Oh, and best of luck. This sort of thing doesn't come instantly, and for many never comes at all. You can also try meditation, thought I'm admittedly completely inexperienced in the matter. But I've only heard good thing - it can help you become in tune with your inner self which in turn manifests in a greater receptiveness to mysticism and feelings of wonder. Attached pic is simple, but it might give you some inspiration.

Attached: visuals-000007808896-GV0NOG-original.jpg (1920x402, 94K)

It wouldn't be magical, it would just be casual interactions. If it was impossible it couldn't have happened.

I might rope. What is the point if nothing is greater than this?

i.e. stoicism
though empedoclus seemed to be way more passive than nietsche

>materialism is likely wrong
and proof do we have of this? Can we not lobotomize people to destroy their emotions. do retards have consciouses? what is the alternative to materialism? we cant know because we therefore cannot measure it.

FUCKING BASED REPLY, GODLESS KEKS GET BTFO

Of course it would predict an effect similar to my experience. The brain-states (read: the information necessary to produce my experience) would be literally equal.
>I don't see how that is possible. That would require something bigger than the universe for it to be contained in.
We work with uncountably-infinite things all the time, a status that describes set that, for lack of better words, grow infinitely. Rational numbers are uncountably-infinite, because there's an infinite amount of rational numbers between each rational number. But the universe doesn't fall apart because we use rational numbers. Just because a function can replicate all states of the universe doesn't mean that it has to replicate any given state in its entirety.

I understand that it's a hard position to really intuit properly. The realization of the oneness of everything is the only path to spiritual enlightenment, and you will find your way there if you are so inclined.

>But why did you think "living life as if you'd have to live it an infinite amount of times" was a Christian thing at all?
because how you put it it sounded to me like "live righteously" in disguise

>get eternal suffering :)
how loving and just. eternal punishment for finite crimes in a flawed body and mind.

The mind and body are flawed, the will of man is not. You control your destiny. God has plainly put how to be righteous and how to represent his kingdom.

youtube.com/watch?v=Hx9gLvLYF5s

>The brain-states (read: the information necessary to produce my experience) would be literally equal.
It would just seem that way, because that is what a simulation is. In actuality the physical structure would be totally different and might not produce any "experience" at all.
>We work with uncountably-infinite things all the time
Infinite thing is an oxymoron. A thing is by definition finite.
For your brain to differentiate between two different sensory imputs, it needs atleast two(in reality a lot more) corresponding neuron states.
You need a brain that was bigger than the universe to contain this equation you are suggesting.

You might have misunderstood what I meant, because I agree that getting into heaven is a central part of Christianity, but so is believing in god. My argument was that, if Christianity was originally a religion devoted to NO god, but still offered an afterlife, then it would still be a popular religion. But if Christianity was intended as a religion devoted to a god, but DIDN'T offer an afterlife, there would be many, many less followers.

My point was that people don't really care if there's a God or not, only that they'll be promised life (or better yet, a paradise) after death.

ExposingChristianity.com da truth

OP instead of cognitive dissonance just smoke DMT and speak to god yourself. It's the easiest way to contact the powers that be.

I am afraid I would become an insane person doing DMT though. I am a very anxious person so I feel like I would straight panic during an experience as intense as a DMT breakthrough

You better be a diest because complexity...therefore God in no way leads to Christianity

There is no evidence only fictional accounts. No one has ever been back to.prove otherwise it's the greatest mystery ever.
Inb4 bla bla claimed to be reincarnated bla bla scam bullshit bla bla cult bla bla I believe because muh feels

You forgot bla bla bla believing nomadic sheap hearders that wrote fictional book about fictional God that is god of all gods and heaven awaits or 40 virgins depending on which book you follow.

Shit quoted wrong person. Sorry m8 was responding to

>Infinite thing is an oxymoron. A thing is by definition finite.

>For your brain to differentiate between two different sensory imputs, it needs atleast two(in reality a lot more) corresponding neuron states.

>You need a brain that was bigger than the universe to contain this equation you are suggesting.
You misunderstand me, and you misunderstand the nature of infinity in mathematics. I don't have to literally contain all the integers in my head in order to comprehend the fact that they are infinite (and the ARE infinite, though in a way different to the earlier-mentioned rational numbers). Their infiniteness is a legitimate mathematical property, and is thereby a legitimate property of the universe.

> In actuality the physical structure would be totally different and might not produce any "experience" at all.
This isn't true. The brain structure is still there. Five rocks and binary 101 both carry the structure of the number "5". That 5-structure acts like all 5 structures; you can add 2 to make it 7, and it can divide into 20, 4 times. Just because one is made of bits, and the other is made of rocks, doesn't make fiveness any less five. So it is with brain structures. Just because the information is represented in bits instead of direct atoms doesn't make the information different.

You are lucky, I was about to slap the shit out of you

>thinking any of this has anything to do with consciousness
We are a brain. Simple. When the brain dies the ride is over. It is not that complicated, maggot.

It does. Consciousness is a structure, not a thing (in our usual sense of things). As long as the structure is present, the consciousness follows.

>Their infiniteness is a legitimate mathematical property, and is thereby a legitimate property of the universe.
Sounds like insane gibberish to me.
>Five rocks and binary 101 both carry the structure of the number "5"
Neither the concept of a rock or of the number 5 is present in the rocks. They are both artifacts of consciousness, not something that could exist indepedent of it. It's something your mind has invented, a crude reconstruction of your surroundings.
To think that you could take something so inherently incomplete and make an accurate representation of the absolute reality is just insane.

certainly you can prove those claims? that's how the science works after all, if you can't prove something it's not scientific

Proof has to do with mathematics. There is no such thing as scientific proof.

>Sounds like insane gibberish to me.
A mathematician once told me that every mathematician he has met was a nutjob, so I can't say that you're wrong, but that doesn't make the property of infiniteness wrong, either.

>It's something your mind has invented, a crude reconstruction of your surroundings.
That's exactly correct, and this is the case for all things we perceive. This is why the mind is the center of the universe. The things that are minds percept are *all* that exists. This is at odds with western axioms for philosophy, which is why it's a hard concept to chew on.