Suicide general

But what if they suffer because I'm alive?

Then kill yourself lol

>it's selfish
>all life is precious

>Have two male robot-like friends I've known for years
>I talk to them regularly during depressive periods they have where they speak of suicide
>Understand that it's selfish to want to keep them alive for my sake
>Understand they shouldn't suffer so we don't feel guilty/culpable/sad
>Understand it's their choice
>Understand their feelings, had an abusive childhood which fucked me up and I think about suicide fairly often
>At the same time, don't want to encourage suicide
>Just listen to them and try my best to understand and give a positive spin to what they're saying
>Still doesn't feel like I'm approaching the situation correctly

Young men are just fucked. I feel like I'm a blind man leading other blind men.

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The NPCs where I'm from say shit like

>Do it you pussy
>Coward
>What? You're gonna do HRT aswell?
>Fucking coward can't even live

They don't understand, that's all. I'm planning to go to therapy soon and still people doubt it's a good idea, because there's a meme going around for generations that going to psychiatrist means getting locked up for the rest of your life. Or that pills and doctors don't do shit.

What am I supposed to do instead? Nobody knows. They always say something along the lines of "start working, start doing something", but come on, if it was that easy, I would've never been a sad sack of shit in my whole life.

> >it doesn't just affect you, it hurts everyone
It does, but then again, how am I supposed to have the strength to continue living? The problem with friends is, they have their lives, they can't babysit you while you try to get well. Most just don't want to. And when the idea of killing yourself pops in your head, you don't really think about anybody, you just want to fucking do it.
> >what are you doing to your family?
My family doesn't care about me. I was born because mom had to pop out a kid and she gave up under the pressure from relatives and just did it. My dad lives comfortably in a small town and just does his thing. I'm sure he will be sad, but my mom won't. She half-assed my parenting, I've never seen her actually care.

>suicide is cowardice
*goes back to being a wagecuck bootlicker*

>I'm planning to go to therapy soon
Why? Do you think they can solve your problem?

There is nothing more NPC than using suicide as means of attention whoring, which OP clearly does since he goes around telling people how suicidal he is.

They'll only care about me when i'm dead.

>wow these people are trying to help me, what fucking assholes
I sincerely do hope you kill yourself OP, and I bet your mother won't even miss you

>I sincerely do hope you kill yourself OP
people like him never do

this. people posting pepe while talking about how their meme depression is so special needs to fuck off. I'm going through depression right now and I cannot imagine leaving my family behind, my mother did her best to give me a good life and I'm going to stay here

I have no idea, but they can solve a huge part of my problem: conscription. If I'm diagnosed and have the papers to prove it, I won't be stressed out because of some fucker in camo trying to sign me up for a year of unnecessary service. These moments usually stopped me dead in my progress. I still came back to whatever I was doing, but with no real motivation. Why should I bother, if the same thing is going to happen in several months.
After that, who knows what will happen. Maybe I'll still kill myself, but at least I'll have a more comfortable life before that happens.

it has worked for a lot of people, why isn't it worth a try?

It hasn't worked for me. Already tried it.

ok, sucks for you then. what the fuck does your experience have to do with others?

Here's what I say:
Fucking do it nigger you better see it so I can see

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Are you retarded? I was only asking for his opinion. What rustle your jimmies?

I asked why it isn't worth a try and you replied with your personal experience. are you fucking retarded?
I ask again: why not try?

>what is reading comprehension
Really user

>r-reading comprehension, g-got u
zero argument. you're actually a retard

Of course we all know the real reason society doesn't approve of suicide.

Because dead goys can't pay taxes.

Which part of
>Already tried it.
did you fail to understand?
Are you pretending to be retarded or are you genuinely retarded?

>"it's selfish"
Do NPCs unironically not see the hypocrisy in trying to force a dude in pain live so they don't have to feel bad? I swear none of those shitbags even care about us they just don't want to deal with having to pretend to feel sad.

All those things are true you've just become so dissociated from reality/yourself that you're numb to emotions that aren't your own, and lack basic sensibility from being depressed. Much like an NPC, unaware and ignorant to anything outside their own shit and what they choose to believe.

How is making you feel guilty helping exactly? Are you this delusional to believe this?

>why should you not do this
>because it didn't help me personally
see the problem?
it's the opposite, OP is trying to make people that care feel guilty. at least they give some common advice, they try

i think my vrchat friend killed himself

i hate him for doing this to me
I want to punch him

I want him back man :(

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People who commit suicide are among the bravest people in history, only second to people who sacrifice themselves for others or for something they believe in (i.e. the Spartans at Thermopylae or the Texans at the Alamo). To willingly give up your life and enter the unknown takes a lot of courage

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The only thing keeping me from suicide is my fear of hell

I'd argue that if you really desire death the bravest thing you could do is force yourself through a lifetime of suffering for the sake of others. The same way people who sacrifice themselves love life and give it up for those they value, perhaps the only sacrifice greater than that is to hate life and spend every waking hour tortured so others don't feel that pain themselves. Jumping on a grenade of human suffering so others can live happier.

I can tell you never felt real suffering and pain. The pain I feel in my head is like someone is crushing my head between two cars. It might not be physical, but asking someone that goes through insufferable pain to go on because "you're selfish, think of your family!" is equally as selfish. Forcing someone to live for the sake of a few people is absurd and I hope you feel the pain I do, just so you could understand how painful existence is for me.

I agree with this, in my opinion selfishness is a two way street, it's selfish to want someone to live through suffering so you don't have to be sad, but it's also selfish to kill yourself so you don't have to be sad. So I guess it doesn't really matter.

>be me
>Have a dog
>Lovely little spaniel
>Only creature I've ever truly connected with
>Dog gets old
>About 11
>Is blind, deaf, incontinent, has arthritis, and a nervous system disorder that makes all the muscles in his face not work, so he needs artificial tears 3x a day or his eyes get coated in sludge
>Decide it's immoral to keep him alive for my feelings
>Have him put down
>Bummed the fuck out, and still think about him years later
>Everyone says "it was the right thing to do, he was suffering"
>Mfw this logic doesn't apply to people apparently

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>you never felt real suffering and pain
I used to have the same state of mind as you on suicide, and I get that sometimes it hurts so bad. I know the feeling where you want to tear your own ribcage open from the inside and cut a hole in your skull so the crushing weight will dissipate. The aches, pains, fatigue, restlessness in bed, it's all shitty. There's a place to draw the line though. I personally decided I deserve all the suffering life will bring me and mitigating it by moving pain onto those that care about me is evil. Don't make such drastic assumptions about me, I tried to die before and spent a long time after restrained in mental hospitals because I was to self-destructive. Over time came to the realization that you have to bear your cross as best you can. Since you've already wished suffering onto me I assume this will fall on deaf ears, but please consider what I've said. Your parents gave up half their youth to raise you, you can give some time back to them.

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>Your parents gave up half their youth to raise you, you can give some time back to them.

Not the same person. What if you have no one else and your family abused you when you were a kid?

Then you don't owe them as much consideration I suppose. From the beginning I said it's a factor to consider, not an argument disproving it. Schopenhauer did well pointing out that Aristotle argued suicide was a crime against the state, but not the individual. If you don't have others you care about it's up to personal discretion ethically. Not saying suicide is le ebil bad thoughts need to go away, just reminding anons that there are potential consequences you have to weigh.

Let me help you with that.

There is no hell. The concepts of hell and heaven were created to control people like you. Heaven is the carrot, hell is the stick. It's all a scam, designed to ensure that gullible dopes like you spend your lives toiling away for your masters.

> accuses people of having meme depression
> tells us about his meme depression
> doesn't want to an hero like others cuz mommy gave them a good life
> doesn't realize that the reason they're suffering is because mommy brought them here to suffer in the first place
Looks like you are a true NPC

Why do you always avatar fag and tell make-believe stories?

>doesn't realize that the reason they're suffering is because mommy brought them here to suffer in the first place
If someone who loves you gives you a gift they really think you'll enjoy, do you throw it in the trash right in front of their eyes?

>ugh like dude, I'm so suicidal right now
>please give me attention so I can discard it and pretend like I'm above it
>I'm so special
get over yourself and deal with your depression (or kys)

Not sure why you're inclined to believe I'm larping, but believe what you'd like to I guess. That also wasn't an avatar or post signature, so I don't get what you're on about.

If it were possible to throw the suffering that is existence in the bin, then yes.

>You should be happy you live in a developed nation.
>Don't you realize there are people worse off than you? Think about the starving kids in Africa.

How the fuck are you so poor that you can't even afford an oxygen mask and a tank of inert gas?

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>If it were possible to throw the suffering that is existence in the bin
It isn't though, existence goes on with or without you. The suffering you feel is just as real as another's. Deleting the universe is a lot different from obliterating your own consciousness. If you have no one who will mourn or remember you then that point is moot, but since you aren't dead yet there must be something holding you back.

My parents heavily monitor my income, I'm on benefits and they put oxygen in helium tanks now.

She doesn't love me and she doesn't care if I enjoy living, all that matters to her is that I grow up to be rich so she can retire comfortably
I can't stand these appeals to emotion, society doesn't give a fuck about you, life is all sink or swim.

>My parents heavily monitor my income, I'm on benefits
Just get a menial wagecuck job for a week or so, and quit after you've made a hundred bucks.
>and they put oxygen in helium tanks now.
That's why you use gasses like argon instead of helium.

If no one cares about you and you don't care about anyone then obviously it's up to you. Just go kill yourself then. Not even gaslighting, being honest. You can find a bridge to jump off tonight.

I don't think there is a rational reason to be concerned with any event taking place after the permanent cessation of one's consciousness. Sure, it would make my family sad, but that can't be a problem for me once i'm dead.

>a problem for me
>the me meme
That blatant narcissism goes against traditional ethics. If you reject them go ahead.

Ethics cease to be a factor when you're dead.

Stop being a retarded solipsist. Existence will continue after you die, ethics will not break down, others can analyze your actions and judge them. Ethics will exist as much as they did before you die, and as much as they did before you were born. The world is not contingent on your perception of it.

Morality is subjective. The only reason why morality os relevant to you os because you can conceive of it. Once you're dead, the it no longer holds any value to you and can thetefore be disregarded. Reality only matters in the subjective sense.

>Morality is subjective
No it isn't, and morality is relevant because of mine as well as other's experience. All consciousness plays into the calculations of moral decisions, not just my own. Of course if you have no sense of obligation to others that's true, but living that way is pointless.

Regardless of your convictions of the nature of morality, name one good ethical reason that could be a disincentive for me to kill myself. Any possible downside of the act would be immediately nullified by the fact that i can't have problems anymore.
>living that way is pointless
One more reason not to live

Found the conformist.

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There's nothing intrinsically wrong with committing suicide in a self-contained environment. If you only care about the self and nothing else I have no opposition to your points. Go ahead.

What reason do i have to adhere to morality in the case of suicide? Usually acting morally is reaeassonable because what is moral generally is also in your best interest, but that doesn't apply to the issue of suicide. There is no metaphysical repercussion to acting amorally, so who gives a fuck about morality in this case.

Shithead inbred retard OP keeps ignoring every post that calls him out on his blatant attention whoring

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My point is you literally cannot care about the suffering of others when you're dead, so that's not a reason against doing it. Basically what this user said , i have no incentive to act moral in the case of suicide.

>what is moral generally is also in your best interest
The reason why that is true is because you're supposed to get joy from kindness to others. If you don't it is completely wrong. Look, you're trying too hard to be contrarian here. If you don't care about morality or the good of others outside yourself suicide is always justifiable.
By that logic if you get blackout drunk and do something during that time reprehensible which you cannot remember, you did no evil? You're accepting the consequences of your actions before you commit suicide, so you are responsible for its results.Is there a selfish reason to care? No. Are there things besides you which you may or may not care about? Yes. Decide if you care enough, not my job to make you a good person.

No I'm keeping an eye on all of it, honestly I'm just surprised my thread has taken off as much as it has, usually my threads get 2 posts then die. This is a welcome change

I had a really close friend commit suicide recently.
He was an amazing guy and had some serious demons.
All I'm going to say is that your life impacts people more than you think it did. You're not running away from your problems just dumping them on everyone else.
Also as someone who is cronically depressed the only thing that keeps me sane is weed and doing things.
Also do you really want a stranger handling your gross body and going through your gross shit.

Also not everyone is going to be sad, some people might get pissed or think it's completely selfish and you're not going to be around to prove them otherwise.

Also sadly people are going to get on with their day still, yeah you'll be gone but they still have to work and soon you'll just be a sad passing memory.

Or worse forgotten completely.

I am super depressed but Ive gotten past the stage of actively trying to kill myself and now it's only my "escape plan, if I'm a failure" and only just floats around my head all day.
Personally I found it helpful to put my time into sometime even if I fucking hated it, at least then I could see that I had done something.

Your problems are going to be your fucking families problems and if you don't think so then you're fucking retarded. I've lost friends and family to suicide and the following months are posts of grief, frustration, and stuff that would make your heart break.
Weeks of cleaning up your room, finding places to put / get rid of your shit, all your family having to deal with the paperwork, the costs, the stress of dealing with a dead body during the holidays.

I'm not playing devil's advocate.
If morality is contingent on your empathy, then it is subjective. If the moral landscape of a society is defined by the popular opinion of it's people, then that just means it's the consensus, that doesn't make it objective. If all humans dissappeared, then there would be no moral landscape and hence it can' be objective. Because objective things are not contingent on human opinion and do not disappear when there are no humans. You're falling victim to the bandwagon fallacy.
And my point is not that i don't care about the well being of others, because i do. I just don't delude myself into thinking it will still matter to me when I'm dead, and therefore I deem it irrational to care about anything that happens after your death. Or do you think morality and the well being of others will matter to you when you're dead?

What if you have no friends nor family?

Someone who is dealin with your corpse is going to have to deal with it. You don't magically dissapear. Someone is going to have to deal with your shit regardless if they're getting paid to do it.

>If morality is contingent on your empathy, then it is subjective
The systems are, not the incidence. In other words, the person determines what makes something good or bad and once they've created that set of subjective standards it needs to be generally applied to all things. Once you determine that making others suffer for your own benefit is immoral, that will remain true whether you observe its effects directly or not. And of course systems of morals need people to function, because without will there is no capacity for good and evil whatsoever. Morality lies in choice which necessarily cannot exist without consciousness. There is no bandwagon fallacy whatsoever, you're just being intentionally blind to your own actions.
>to me
>your
>to you
Holy shit how do I get it through your thick skull. Obviously when YOU kill YOURSELF and YOU stop existing, YOU do not experience good or ill. That is apparent. There are things OUTSIDE OF YOURSELF to consider, that's basic empathy. If you set a bomb to explode the moment your heart stopped beating and that bomb killed people, would that not be immoral? When you understand the casuality of your actions you need to assume responsibility for them, regardless if you are there or not there to witness the effects personally.

>>if you kill youself it will destroy the family
>I'm 30 years old, single, gross and boring. I work 40 hour weeks for shit money, I have no friends, no skills, no hobbies besides videogames (which isn't really a hobby). All I do is drink and sleep to get me through the work week. Then i spend the weekend drinking alone while I wait for monday. And I'm supposed to continue this existence so you won't have to be sad?

Stop doing the same thing every day of the week then. Save up some money and fuck off to Spain or some other third world country and live your life. Just go do some crazy shit. Doesn't matter what you look like, eventually some slut will suck your dick and let you pound her for a few minutes. Then you can decide what to do with your life with a new perspective

I would do it if I had some heroin to overdose on

fuck them
their acceptance of reality is on them, not me. It's not my job to hold their hand through their life.

Agreed, especially if you have a younger sibling who is stuck in the same situation,or someone who actually gives a dhit about you

And? They decided to get the job to deal with cadavers.