Some questions for incels

You do know OP doesnt give two shots about right? Probably some college kid using this thread as a reference in his term paper or something

I dont usually reply to bait, but compared to most half assed attempts, this was actually decently crafted.

>If you
I don't.
>if you
I don't.
>3. Do you think that it is right for people to judge you based on who you find attractive?
Absolutely. Every aspect of a person's existence is subject to judgement.
>4. If you met a woman who often spoke negatively about men, calling them evil, shallow or malicious, would you want to date them?
Yes. I'd probably agree with her on most things she has to say about modern men. She'd be attracted to me because I am not like them.

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that guy looks like a fat marky mark

Why did you post that image? You think she wouldn't have done the same for him?

And good looking guys with huge dicks too.

kek

>1. If you think women don't get rejected, demeaned or ridiculed for their looks just as often if not more than men, what are you basing that on? How many women have you talked to about their experiences with rejection, dating, harassment, etc.?
The majority of any bullying women will receive comes from other women, I know and understand that their dating life isn't perfect but this cause for this is more often than not because they fell for the wrong guy and I say this from having a few female friends over the years who've been open about their lives.
>2. If you claim that your negative or resentful attitude towards women was caused by women mistreating you, have you also been mistreated by men? If so, did that lead you to adopt a generalizing view of men as evil, shallow or malicious?
I haven't had many bad experiences with either gender, I just carry the knowledge that women will never want me and it hurts, there are facts to back up that women are on a whole a lot more shallow than men like the OkCupid rating statistics. I fully understand that there are malicious men who manipulate and use women and I hate them just as much as I hate the shallow whores.
>3. Do you think that it is right for people to judge you based on who you find attractive? If not, why do you think it's okay for you to judge women based on who they find attractive?
The women I find attractive are more often than not average, so much so that my female friends will negatively comment on their looks, I'm already being judged for who I find attractive and it's by other women, men should in turn be entitled to berate women for only wanting men substantially more attractive than them.
>4. If you met a woman who often spoke negatively about men, calling them evil, shallow or malicious, would you want to date them? If not, why should a woman in the opposite situation want to date you?
I wouldn't care if she hated men as long as it wasn't most men, same as how I don't hate all women.

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>Statistically untrue by every analysis
Post just one of those. You probably do not understand that getting messages from someone does not mean rejection or acceptance. In the end men decide who they want to actually date and fuck from all their tinder matches, since there is always so much choice. Everyone has it easy these days and they can raise their standards.

But we all know you will post one of your meme graphs which are completely unrelated and then use incel mental gymnastics.

>In the end men decide who they want to actually date and fuck from all their tinder matches, since there is always so much choice.
You're either a women or a mentally ill man who hasn't realized he's gay, either way you're extremely delusional. Men on average get 0-5 matches a day on tinder from selective swiping while women get well into the double digits while doing the same, the only way men can compete with those numbers would be to swipe on everything, most articles will talk about how few matches men actually get, so much so that I won't even bother linking to anything because it'd be redundant. Women are the gatekeepers and they would rather sleep with a guy who is above their league than settle for an equal, men do not have the same opportunity.

If a guy gets 0-5 matches a day, meaning he can get a date with a different girl every 1-2 days if he wants. I wouldn't call that bad.

Seek help, you're not living in reality.
Every match isn't a guaranteed date, in fact, the majority will lose interest within few lines of dialogue. This is the cold hard truth, dating in the online age is absolutely fucked for most men, you have a better chance chatting women up in real life than you do using Tinder or OkCupid.

1 out of 20 matches lead to a date, according to stats pulled out of my ass. But pretty close to reality. That is why as long as you keep swiping you will get dates. Because the numbers are so high, it's easier than everyone for both men and women to find someone.

that's actually really sweet
nice to see that some couples are truly bound by unbreakable love
I don't know if I could stand it, though
that guy must have a really strong stomach

I can guarantee you this dude is into some sick fetish stuff, but at the same time, it allows him to give immense joy to someone who would otherwise be shunned, rejected and despised.
Moral of the story: being sick pervert can save lives.

>in fact, the majority will lose interest within few lines of dialogue
maybe you're just boring, sweetie

Which is why you should give up and never try right? You incels are retards.

You are taller than an average man. You're saying that women refuse to date over 50% of men. How can you be this retarded?

I'm only going to answer this one
>3. Do you think that it is right for people to judge you based on who you find attractive? If not, why do you think it's okay for you to judge women based on who they find attractive?
YES. If I were to legitimately think "I do not find black women attractive, they are automatically ugly and I will never date them" (I don't actually think this) then I should be seen as a racist and as terrible human being. its exactly the same for women and short men, and I find it dishonest to compare fat women and short men - those are not equivalent features in dating. It is not a "preference" to automatically find ALL people with x racial trait or x height unattractive, it's prejudice and discrimination, it's not innate, and it doesn't need to be tolerated. Women have a moral obligation to get over feeling uncomfortable dating men who are shorter than them, just like white people had/have a moral obligation to get over feeling uncomfortable with black people living around them and going to their school and integrating into their society.
other than that, I don't really care about anything. I'm not a virgin or bitter, I am legitimately angry about socially accepted wide spread discrimination and heightism. so I'll say it again - SEXUALITY ISN'T IMMUNE FROM BEING PREJUDICED AND DISCRIMINATORY. Women are still heightist for refusing to date men shorter than them, and women have a moral obligation to stop feeling uncomfortable and start becoming attracted to men shorter than them.
t. 5'11" user.

This is nuts.
It's not a prejudice, it's a judgement. I don't think all short people are evil because their heart is close to their asshole where the shit stays, so it's tainted forever. I think I don't find them as hot as a tall guy, because I like tall guys.
It's not discrimination, as no one has the right to have sex with anyone else and you're taking something away from them by not giving it to them.

>Women are still heightist for refusing to date men shorter than them
Gay people are sexist for not fucking women? 15 year old are ageist for not fucking adults?

Dating websites are based on attractiveness, so women are always going to come out on top. An ugly man isn't going to garner much.

By the world's standards an ugly man is frowned upon. Every man is to be handsome, have a good income/career, the whole nine yards.

The world doesn't know what's best for any man or woman, let alone what's best for itself.

If you're going to compare yourself to the world's standards and keep up with the jones, and you seek to fulfill these means by other's terms, you lack sense.

Unfuck yourself and face your issues head on. Don't deceive yourself, be honest, search your heart. Don't be a coward or a swindler or a mocker. Seek wisdom.

I edited for spelling here I'm not being retarded, all the research indicates what I'm saying. 96% of women refuse to date men shorter than them. If 96% of men refused to date black women, or 96% of white people said they didn't want black people in their schools, this wouldn't be tolerated. why the fuck do we continue to tolerate this shit against short men?
Nope, because gayness isn't socialized but height attraction is.
rsbl.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/early/2009/06/25/rsbl.2009.0342.short

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3474915/

researchgate.net/figure/Correlation-between-the-heights-of-husbands-and-wives-in-this-Gambian-population-a_fig1_48776428

You are socialized to find tall guys more attractive, just like men are socialized to find black women the least attractive. THIS IS NOT ACCEPTABLE. this is fucking DISCRIMINATION and you not liking being called a heightist doesn't mean you arent one and doesn't remove the moral responsibility you have to get over it.
Also, you CAN train yourself to like and become genuinely turned on by guys shorter than you, so there is no excuse. there is no way to train a gay man to like women, so again it's a false comparison.
Judging shorter men as less sexual because of their height is still judging them negatively and is still socialized discrimination. get over it.

Are you a brainlet manlet incel or a bitter lanklet virgin trolling?

>you're not living in reality
Tinder isn't reality, it's specifically made by and for social media addicts that only care about looks and their warped idea of fame and importance.
Take your own advice and start meeting people as part of a hobby, try corny stuff like singles' nights, speed dating, university meetups... You'll have an easier time connecting with women that way and if a common interest is involved, chances that you will hit it up are tremendously increased.
Because that's what's important, in the end: connection. Chain-fucking tinder matches isn't a desirable goal. Apart from the sex, there is actually very little human connection to an internet hookup. Most of the time, it will end up making you feel more alone and depressed than just staying at home wacking it to beastiality.
My advice to incels would be to either:
- Abstain from online dating completely, maybe see a therapist, and work on your social skills in person.
- Stop taking online dating so seriously. Not getting a match isn't the same as being rejected. (And probably do the above too)
After years of autistically trying to make myself look attractive on all dating apps and sites I could find, I decided to say "fuck it", deleted everything and remade just one account with one simple rule: 100% honesty and no trying to conform to anyone's standards but my own, even if that means grossing out or chasing off most people. I got a lot less matches (not a problem, since those I got before never led to anything), but 4-5 months later, I started chatting with a marvelous woman who seemed genuinely intrigued by the awkward mess I was displaying. Spent a few weeks talking on the phone before actually meeting, and we waited 5 or 6 dates before even kissing.
Romance isn't dead, but hookup culture is toxic and you gotta work to get something significant. You want love ? Bare your soul, warts and all, and fuck anyone who says you're not good enough.

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So you really believe that all men under 6' will die virgins and all men over 6' have unlimited harems? Please remove yourself and your damaged brain from the gene pool.

There's no proof that being gay isn't socialised. There's no gay gene.
I also don't think it matters AT ALL why you aren't attracted to someone, if you aren't then, by all mean, don't fuck them.

>Also, you CAN train yourself to like and become genuinely turned on by guys shorter than you, so there is no excuse. there is no way to train a gay man to like women, so again it's a false comparison.
How can you? Like, find me a study where plenty of women became sexually aroused by short dudes when they found them unattractive before. If you'll just tell me "lol just go fuck them", why would I have unpleasant sex with someone I don't find sexually attractive just to cater to their needs to get laid?
If you have anecdotal stories, I have anecdotal stories about gay conversion camps working on some people. I don't think it's right and I don't feel entitled to have gay men wanting to fuck me. I don't think anyone has to change their preferences to cater me.

>Judging shorter men as less sexual because of their height is still judging them negatively
No, it isn't. I find height attractive, I'll think a tall man is hotter than a short one.

>and is still socialized discrimination. get over it.
No, it isn't. I'm not discriminating you. I'm choosing the mate I find most attractive out of my own personal preferences. You don't have any right to.

When a succubus gets her claws in you her being in danger or hurt feels like rats chewing up your insides and you'd do anything for her to make it stop. Women don't feel that.

I'm a 5'11" guy who's pissed at women doing this shit. we dont need to tolerate it anymore.
No, I think women refusing to date men who are shorter than them are bigots and should get over it. I see short dudes with girls all the time.
>There's no proof that being gay isn't socialised. There's no gay gene.
Either way, there IS evidence height attraction is socialized.
>I also don't think it matters AT ALL why you aren't attracted to someone, if you aren't then, by all mean, don't fuck them.
get the fuck out of here. It doesn't matter if a group of people are disriminated against in society? It doesn't matter if NINETY SIX PERCENT of a group of people think of another group as less valuable, in a provably socialized way, doesn't matter? You're just admitting to being a prejudiced piece of shit. Fuck off, you know you're wrong and don't like being called out.
>How can you? Like, find me a study where plenty of women became sexually aroused by short dudes when they found them unattractive before.
People get over racist sentiments and develop new kinks and fetishes and attractions every day, what do you mean? I have never seen gay conversion working but there is a litany of evidence of women getting over height prejudices.
>No, it isn't. I find height attractive, I'll think a tall man is hotter than a short one.
Which is SOCIALIZED and discriminatory. White people used to think white people were better than blacks. your sexuality is not separate from that type of discrimination, and you have a moral obligation to get over it. Finding a tall man hotter than a short one makes you a prejudiced disgusting person, no different from thinking a white man is better than a black one.
You will not be able to weasel out of it. the research is conclusive - height attraction isn't innate, and it's caused by discrimination in society. get over it.

Prince was practically a midget and he rode a thousand women twice his size into the sunset.
Lots of women like short guys, or have no preference regarding size. I myself am 5'5" or so and most partners I've been with who had been with larger men told me they liked it better with shorter guys because it didn't feel like hugging a pillar. One of my old female friends who is just under 6' and professed to only like men taller than her also turned out to have a major crush on me, back in the day.
You're getting hung up on memes. Go outside, smile more and stop listening to Jow Forums.
That's just called caring for a person you love. Pretty sure all humans feel that to some extent (bar certain mentally ill outliers).

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>I see short dudes with girls all the time
then there doesn't seem to be a problem, does it ?
or maybe just with you ?

Never disagreed with any of this, all that shows is MORE EVIDENCE that it's socialized. The fact that there are so many women even in our heightist society that don't care only serves as more evidence that those that DO have no excuse.
You don't tell black people "hey man, those white people over there are racist but Not AlL WhItE PeOpLe aRe RaCisT so go to the ones that aren't" you tell the white people who ARE racist that they have to get over it.
There is still a problem, the male taller norm must be eradicated. You're just saying "the tall should be with the tall, the short should be with the short, the white should be with the white, blah blah blah" no. 1/7 couples should feature a woman taller than the man, just like interracial couples should have their relevant percentages.

>Either way, there IS evidence height attraction is socialized.
Same is all sexual preferences, really.

>It doesn't matter if a group of people are disriminated against in society?
Not in these terms, no. I don't think any group is entitled to have sex, so I don't think there's anything bad with anyone having preferences. I don't care if men don't want to fuck women, or short women, or tall women, or fat women, or flat women, or woman with ugly asses, or women with acne. Their right.

Men are, on average, 4 inches taller than women. The amount of man who is 5'3 or shorter (so man who are shorter than an average girl) is a percentile so low that percentile calculators can't even figure it out, like lower than 1%. So even a very short man can find a girlfriend shorter than him. And there are still women who are willing to date men shorter than them anyway, on top of that.
If you think this is a big problem, or a huge discrimination, well, get over yourself. The fact that a group smaller than 1% of people have their chances of accessing to JUST 50% of the dating market isn't an issue I'm breaking my heart over, I'm sorry.

>People get over racist sentiments and develop new kinks and fetishes and attractions every day, what do you mean?
There's plenty of stories online about gay conversion working, too. Does it mean it's ever fine to ask someone to get over their own sexual desires?

> White people used to think white people were better than blacks. your sexuality is not separate from that type of discrimination
Oh yes it is. I don't think I'm better than short people, I just don't want to have their dick in me because they don't make me wet.

>Finding a tall man hotter than a short one makes you a prejudiced disgusting person
It's not a prejudice, it's a judgement. I am allowed to judge people for their physical appearance when I fuck them.

>thinking a white man is better than a black one
not OK, we agree, even if you're only using it to push you retarded point
preferring the aesthetics of a white man over a black man's (or the reverse), is perfectly OK
it's just called liking someone and not the other
by following your logic, everyone should constantly give their bodies to everyone in a crazed race to who's more inclusive
I mean, if you're straight, are you going to offer your ass to every gay man who thinks you're sexy, under the pretext that refusing would make you "a disgusting prejudiced person" ? do you think you have a moral obligation to get over the fact you don't like dick, just to accomodate someone who wants to give their to you ?
I don't think any attraction is innate; it's a mix of so many things and so intwined into people's development I don't believe you can really modify it. If someone doesn't find you attractive, it's their right, and rather than wasting your energy trying to convince them they should (which, they won't, because there is no logic to attraction, and trying to find some is futile), maybe your time would be better used moving on and looking for other more suitable partners.

1. Women are sought after men aren't.
2. Yes. I don't hang out with the type of people who have bullied me. Just like I avoid women who reject me. What's the point? Individualism is a meme
3The idea is that there really isn't a balance when it comes to dating, but I see what you're trying to do. It's just straw mans to say gotcha.
4Yes I would, because I don't necessarily fall under every generalization. I'm not exactly the average. - Man date anything that walks these days

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>a famous and rich musician was able to get some action
Are you seriously trying to compare an exception like Prince to the rest of manlets?

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1. This is proven fact. Unless you are a total abomination or landwhale women will always have someone pining for them. There will always be some guy ready to shower them with gifts and affection just for having a vagina.

2. Normies are gonna normie. I'll leave it at that. They will ostracize people who don't buy into their social hierarchies that are inherently meaningless.

3. False equivalence. Master key and shitty lock. Been discussed millions of times.

4. Tentatively yes. It shows they have some semblance of self awareness or could be a seething hoe.

Were getting baited obviously

>you tell the white people who ARE racist that they have to get over it.
Yeah, except women who aren't attracted to short men aren't trying to burn them at the cross, keep them from having civil rights, and don't cheer cops who shoot down short males (a subject that's never specifically reported about, you might notice). Short males haven't been systematically reduced in slavery, confined to poverty and herded into the penal system (and as a result of that, aren't a "sensible" population prone to crime and illiteracy). There is no widespread hatred of short men among the general population, save for a few vapid Instagram whores whom nobody should be listening to anyway.
>You're just saying "the tall should be with the tall, the short should be with the short, the white should be with the white"
No, I'm saying "people should be with people they like and find attractive, preferably both, and preferably reciprocally". No one owes anything to anyone in terms of love, because love is all giving.

>just like men are socialized to find black women the least attractive.

Except this is true. Black women are so much less attractive than other women. Asian, Latinas and white women are all more attractive. Only certain fringe racial groups like abos are uglier but the abo race is also black so there is that.

Yeah, but what about you ? Who do YOU find attractive ?
Isn't that what's most important ?

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Descrimination is a negative judgement by definition. You thinking "short men aren't sexual beings" is negative judgement that is provably socialized and is nothing less than descrimination and heightism. There is nothing wrong with liking tall guys, there IS something wrong with not liking short guys. I mean jesus, youre getting so defensive at being told you need to stop hating short men, just proviing my point. Get over it.

If there was actually equal distribution, then I wouldn't care. If for every man who genuinely preferred white women there was another who prefer ed black, then it actually would be individuals with individual preferences. But it's not.
For every woman who hates short men, there are 10 more women who also hate short men. It's not "just a bunch of people with preferences" it's "a group of people discriminating against another group on a societal level". This is not acceptable. Your strawman mean nothing as I have already posted evidence proving it's socialized. The precedent has been set. 1/7 couples must have taller women, just like interracial couples should have their relevant numbers.

We might as well be living under Jim crow due to the human conditioning

Research indicates that the human brain uses height as a measurement to determine social status and fitness. The brain automatically associates physical size with leadership potential, power, strength and intelligence, an effect which has been discovered in infants as young as 10 months old. Evolutionary psychologists theorise that this is due to height indicating that the individual had been better fed, indicating higher social status and thus resources available to them, as well as indicating general health and physical strength, the latter of which can be useful in asserting dominance. The automatic association between height and the aforementioned traits has also been found to be much stronger when it comes to assessing men than women

Systemic discrimination isn't limited to government murder programs. If ninety six percent of a civilian population is treating another group in a prejudiced way, it's still de facto society wide descrimination. The only reason women need taller men is because of the male taller norm, it's a feedback loop that we have a moral obligation to destroy.
Fuck off racist.

Jeez, I don't know what to say... Start wearing stilts ?

Lol you read a wiki article. Guess what, that doesn't exist cross cultures, I already showed that. It is not innate. Babies also show racist behavior when raised in racist societies, doesn't mean anything.
Attraction to height is proven to be socialized

Tinder is reality. Like it really is

I'm 5'11". I'm also speaking out against racism against black women, but you aren't telling me to just lighten my skin, right?
Fuck off. This shit needs to fucking end and you are all complacent in it

>You thinking "short men aren't sexual beings" is negative judgement that is provably socialized and is nothing less than descrimination and heightism
I don't think they aren't sexual beings, I just find height hot and since I can date tall dudes, I'll do that instead of fucking a short one. They can fuck someone else.
I also don't want to fuck women, teenagers, old men, dogs, and people with down syndrome. Am I a sexist, ageist, specist, ableist whore?
I don't even think all short men are unfuckable, I saw some dudes shorter than me who weren't that bad. But I'll take a tall men over a man shorter than me and I always could choose the ones I find more attractive, so tall ones.

>stop hating short men
I don't hate short men at all. I don't hate any category. I just have specific tastes when it comes to people I want to fuck, it doesn't mean I hate everyone else.

Yes but racism is something that gets addressed nobody gives a fuck about short people. And lol that still more sources than you

>Am I a sexist, ageist, specist, ableist whore?
I think I can answer for user, here, and say that you probably are. It's fine, though, only that manlet sperg cares about it.

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The point is this feeling in the first place isn't innate and is descriminatory, and you are not entitled to it. You are not entitled to these feelings. If you got over it, all that would happen is there are more men you find attractive. The utilitarian argument is too strong.
You saying "I can get away with prejudice" isn't an argument to allow you to continue being prejudiced. Your strawman don't work, and lmao at comparing short men to dogs. Prejudiced disgusting human being.

This is my first time seeing this analogy between race and height (and ultimately between sexual discrimination and other discrimination).

My gut instinct is that when you commit to the principle that people deserve not to be discriminated against (e.g. contrast that with the principle no one has the right to anything), you have opened the floodgates to this kind of thinking. I don't see a good argument yet why the line in the sand would be drawn at sexual discrimination (in fact more general "alternate beauty" campaigning has already been a movement among justice circles).

I hope the people arguing against the heightism poster(s) don't drop out, I want a good conclusion since I'm neutral on it.

No it isnt, look up the thread I posted 3 articles with populations of hundreds of tthousands of members proving height and the male taller norm isn't innate.
You're not as smart as me and you will never be as good as me. And as I said, I'm not short just like I'm not a black woman. You don't need to be a member of an oppressed group to fight for them

The reason is because I am legitimate an intelligent man who sees this disgusting shit and has thought about it and done the research.
There is no difference between racism and heightism, and there is no difference between sexual discrimination and other forms.

I'll live with that.

>The point is this feeling in the first place isn't innate
Neither is not wanting to fuck teenagers or old men, plenty of society think it's acceptable.
Neither is not wanting to fuck women, being gay or lesbian is socialised as there's no gay gene.
Probably not wanting to fuck animals is, but I'm not even sure dude.

>and is descriminatory
All sexual preferences are, and it's fine.

>You are not entitled to these feelings
Oh yes I am. I'm entitled to desire to fuck who I want. Everyone is. Who are you to tell me what I have to do with my body?

>If you got over it, all that would happen is there are more men you find attractive
And literally who cares? I'm the only person who doesn't benefit from not finding those men hot, then, and I'm fine with it. Since they don't have any right to have sex with me, and I don't desire to have a broader dating pool, all good.

>Your strawman don't work, and lmao at comparing short men to dogs.
I'm not comparing, I'm just saying that not wanting to fuck someone or something doesn't make me prejudiced, and doesn't mean I hate that category.

Not being attracted to someone because of innate characteristics isn't discrimination, though.
It would be a real problem if some stores refused to serve short people, or they were forced to sit at the back of the bus, or short men walking hand in hand with a taller woman got beat up by gangs of angry tall men worried about "corruption of the tall race".
You mentioned "alternate beauty" campaigns, and I believe more media representation of such alternate standards would be a good thing, if only to satisfy a wider array of audience, with diverse tastes, and to make people happier as a whole, by helping them accept their bodies (within the limits of the medically safe). But that shouldn't devolve into issuing obligations to fuck, just like "fat acceptance" shouldn't encourage morbidly obese people to carry on with a lifestyle that potentially threatens their life and risks imposing a burden on society later on.
Since OP seems to be big into social justice, they should be well aware of the concept of consent, and that a government order or "moral obligation" doesn't make non-consensual sex magically consensual.

If being gay is also socialized, we all have an obligation to become bisexual as well. There is no evidence for that though is my point, whereas there is a lot of evidence against heighr as an attractive qualifier.
>im entitled to desire to fuck who I want. Everyone is. Who are you to tell me what I have to do with my body?
You are not, just like white people are not entitled to tell black people they aren't allowed in their schools or businesses.

You are not the only person who benefits. The people who are discriminated against benefit. You as a person practicing prejudice do not take precedence over those who are discriminated against. You don't need to fuck any specific shot guy, but you can not think of short men as a group being worse than tall ones (or vice versa, or with race or anything else).
And yes, not wanting to fuck any short guys or thinking they are worse sexually is descriminating as is proven.

Women just don't want to date YOU. They will date all other men, including those shorter than you.

>as is proven

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I have dated 4 women in my life, one relationship lasted two and a half years. Try again.
Getting mad at heightism and racism doesn't make me a bad person, stop trying to ad hom me and actually read what the fuck I'm saying.

You can't compare height and race. Race can be objectively quantified as better or lesser races. Height only changes characteristics one way or another. It is an objective fact that the men who are average or below average height are seen as more attractive by women, but that doesn't stop tall men from also getting girls.

You are making shit up. Heightism doesn't exist. Sure you can cherrypick a few dumb roasties who say they won't date men under 6' (even though they will), you can find plenty of girls saying that 6'3" and above is too tall and they don't want tall guys.

Short men are not better or worse than tall ones, and blatantly lying about how short men are descriminated against isn't gonna do anything but continue the prejudice

I can make a tinder experiment with a fat girl(and not a pretty one) and get literally 100s of matches, the tinder era is fucked. I'm not a truecel because I'm not even a virgin but I'm never going to chase a girl again, either they come to you or there's no point anymore.

This normie 'incel' shit is has gotta go, this is Jow Forums not /Reddit/.

I'm not a virgin, but I'll answer your questions anyways

1: No one is saying individual women don't or can't face issues when dating or trying to find a partner. The issue at large is that women, in the general sense, are the gatekeepers of sex and reproduction. The reality is that women hold most if not all the cards when it comes to finding a partner.

2. Hating an individual, man or woman, without knowing them is dumb. However we can make generalizations based on reality. Men are seen as disposable in society were as women are not. In addition men are also held to a higher standard when measuring their worth. All a woman has to do to be highly valued is to maintain an attractive appearance.

3. Nice loaded question. Yes what people find attractive should be considered and thought about. If the traits being desired are negative, then those people should be judged as fools.

4. Really trying to paint a picture of 'those evil hate filled virgins' aren't you? I judge people based on their character and the merit of their ideas. If someone was spouting 'hatred' towards a particular sex, I would be willing to have a discussion with them if they had valid proof to back up their statements.

Your issue is that you've painted a whole group of people as 'the other'. You've dehumanized and demonized them, and you then act surprised when some people in that group you yourself have made last out at you. You're part of the problem you dumb mother fucker.

A surprising and amusing thread for sure.
Unable to tell if trolling or serious.
7/10, made me smile.

Nope, we do not see one in seven couples having a woman taller than the man. The male taller norm is very strong, and short men are paid less, kill themselves more, and thought of as less attractive and competent, and a whole host of other shit.

It's a socialized prejudice that doesn't need to exist, just like racism

>Not being attracted to someone because of innate characteristics isn't discrimination, though.
I said sexual discrimination but it's the same thing as sexual selection. The important thing to note is that I'm not judging whether it's in the same moral category as non-sexual discrimination, I'm merely pointing out that it is similar in the sense that it is categorically choosing some while excluding others.
>It would be a real problem if some stores refused to serve short people, or they were forced to sit at the back of the bus, or short men walking hand in hand with a taller woman got beat up by gangs of angry tall men worried about "corruption of the tall race".
OK, I'm not saying either type of discrimination is wrong or right. I'm just saying they are both selections based on grouping.
>You mentioned "alternate beauty" campaigns, and I believe more media representation of such alternate standards would be a good thing, if only to satisfy a wider array of audience, with diverse tastes, and to make people happier as a whole, by helping them accept their bodies (within the limits of the medically safe)
I think there must be two parts to it. They are about reassuring people with self-esteem issues that the way they are is okay. But part of that is telling the rest of society that their beauty exists and should not be ignored. This goes for overweight people, homosexuals, ethnic minorities etc from what I have seen.
>But that shouldn't devolve into issuing obligations to fuck, just like "fat acceptance" shouldn't encourage morbidly obese people to carry on with a lifestyle that potentially threatens their life and risks imposing a burden on society later on.
I never advocated that and I'm not sure if the main proponent of heightism did. Rather than obligations to fuck, I think he was saying there is an obligation to break free of their conditioning that discriminates against the beauty of short people. Thats not direct obligation to sex, indirect at most.

>If being gay is also socialized, we all have an obligation to become bisexual as well.
Genes play a role but nurture and environment play a huge role, or so research says. You're not inherently gay or straight, so you should fuck dudes too.

>You are not, just like white people are not entitled to tell black people they aren't allowed in their schools or businesses.
My body isn't a building. You're nuts if you think that the state or anyone who isn't me has the right to pick and choose who I have sex with.
My right to decide who I want to have sex with is much more important than anyone's right to get laid with me. Are you arguing that rape is alright and men that I don't want to have sex with have the right to take my body?

> you can not think of short men as a group being worse than tall ones
I don't think they're worse, I think they're less sexually attractive to me because I find height attractive. I don't think any man under 6 is revolting and shouldn't exist, I think that before fucking a 5'2" dude there are 30 other dudes I find hotter who I could fuck, and I'm sorry but I'm going to pick a 6'3" dude over a 5'2" one any day because he looks a ton hotter to me.

>Men are seen as disposable in society were as women are not.
Really depends who you ask, where you ask and when you ask. Women are seen as completely disposable in many sectors (including most of entertainment, industry, high ranking jobs), while men are highly valued in the same positions.
>In addition men are also held to a higher standard when measuring their worth. All a woman has to do to be highly valued is to maintain an attractive appearance.
This is not attributing true value to women, this is judging them as decorative objects. One could argue that to be truly highly valued and considered the equals of men, women have to work much more. Then again, it is also true of men in other environments.
What emerges, though, is that there is definitely a cruel imbalance between sexes, and that is what we should be fixing, rather than obsessing on each sides' victim complexes.

I pity you for thinking she would.

Again the only reason you think the 6'3 dude is better is because of socialization. And wen almost every other woman this the same way then it's no longer YOU ad an individual with a preference but women as a group practicing widespread discrimination. Yes you have a moral obligation to stop and yes we as a society have a right to make your life more difficult if you refuse to stop. The movement is coming.
Get the fuck over it. I've argued with you about this before a few months ago I think. You were wrong then and you are wrong now. There is no argument you can make.

I was agreeing with you; I think you make some very sensible points and my reply was partly adressed to heightfag.
Yes, it technically is discrimination, but it's not like there's any aggression component to it. People live their lives, feelings get hurt, it's too bad but the show must go on.
And I agree everyone should ideally get over this internalized conditioning (and not just regarding beauty), but you can't force it. It's a change that will happen over generations and has agruably already started happening, through education and different movements. Hopefully one day we'll all be pansexual polyamorous love-bots, but for now, the best thing to do is to just not spread hate.

>Again the only reason you think the 6'3 dude is better is because of socialization.
Who cares why I think that? I do. If I want to fuck a 6'3" dude over a 5'2 one, I will.

>And wen almost every other woman this the same way then it's no longer YOU ad an individual with a preference but women as a group practicing widespread discrimination.
The only thing you proved to be widespread is that women don't want to have sex with men shorter than they are.
So even a very short man could find a woman shorter than he is, since men are on average 5" taller than women. As I pointed out, the "discrimination" you're raging about is the one that makes, for example, a 5'3" men unattractive for 50% of women.
And 5'3" men are less than 1% of men.

>Yes you have a moral obligation to stop and yes we as a society have a right to make your life more difficult if you refuse to stop.
I'd like to see how. Will you force me to get raped by short dudes? Lol.

>advocating rape
that's how we know you're a psychotic quack, bud

Objectively wrong. Physical attractiveness in males peaks around 5'6" to 5'10". Men over 6' get less swipes, this has been proven. Taller males also have problems getting and staying fit or getting comfortable seating or clothes. There are upsides and downsides to short vs tall. But don't try to pretend that on the subject of incels and attracting girls, taller men clearly don't have a disadvantage.

You're a gay man, you are not attracted to the same thing as women.

I'm a girl, not all girls like the same thing.
I like lanky tall dudes.
I dated short dudes too, but I find them much more unattractive.

>Yes, it technically is discrimination, but it's not like there's any aggression component to it. People live their lives, feelings get hurt, it's too bad but the show must go on.
I don't think aggression is the accusation here, it is instead about complacency (in fact, the biggest named atrocities in recent history have been laid at the door of mass complacency rather than individual aggressions).
>And I agree everyone should ideally get over this internalized conditioning (and not just regarding beauty), but you can't force it. It's a change that will happen over generations and has agruably already started happening, through education and different movements. >Hopefully one day we'll all be pansexual polyamorous love-bots, but for now, the best thing to do is to just not spread hate.
Again, I don't think the argument/accusation is about what people intend to believe in the future, it's about what people believe today. Heightism advocates would say that you are complacent in being fine with the status quo and hoping the problem sorts itself eventually.

Also, personally, I'm not sure if you were the girl he was arguing with but he was specifically annoyed with the fact that you unrepentantly conveyed your right to your own discriminating (or hers, if that wasn't you). From what I could see the argument was that they could be proud in their discrimination since it indirectly affirmed their right to be protected from sex they did not consent to. But invoking that right doesn't directly justify their contentment in freely discriminating against smaller men sexually. To me that seems like the present frontier of the debate and the better defence would be to invoke ageism, homophobia etc from then on instead of consent, although it's not yet been agreed how similarly socialised those are.

Again, the reason is very important. You are socialized to be prejudiced and by refusing to get over it you are continuing the prejudice. You are not entitled to content society wide prejudice.
If you wanted a specific tall dude over a specific shot one then whatever. But if you always pick the tall dude automatically because of height, you are heightist and you will be treated as such.
Not rape. It's not rape to tell white people they can't descriminate against blacks. It's not rape or morally to tell women they can and should train themselves to become just as attracted to men shorter than them
I don't care that short dudes get with short girls. I care about the male taller norm. THAT'S what needs to die for heightism to be over.

I like height, I think its hot on guys.
I'm almost always picking a guy who looks hotter to me over a guy who looks less hot. I don't see why I shouldn't.

Also, even if paired randomly, most couples would have the guy taller. There is like a 25% difference between random pairings and IRL chosen pairings. That's how much difference heightism makes.

What's the male taller norm?

I'm speaking purely from a society, historical, and biological standpoint. A tribes survival and growth has always be dependant upon females. This biological reality has allowed women to develop one of the most potent social powers, and allowing them to make or break any male (or even other females) in that society.

Again. I'm talking strictly on biological levels, which provides the base for just about ever other aspect in our society. On a base biological level, all men look for in a mate is health, ie beauty. On the other hand women seek men who are strong, dominant, and who command a measurable share of resources. Factor in male competitiveness and how male respect functions, you end up having one sex that is required to excel in near all aspects of their life.

Men and women will never be equals. Their strengths and weaknesses lay in different areas. They need to support each other, not compete with each other. A large issue in the modern western world is that women have attempted to unsex themselves, favouring to become some wretched amalgamation of the worst aspects of both sexes. Many men are experiencing their own wretched turn as well, devolving into selfish behaviour and opting out of participation in active society.

This is the height distribution.

Attached: men_women_height.jpg (403x269, 20K)

Ex-cel here.

>1
Based on personal experience I have found many women are constantly critical of people of both genders appearances. The thing is, and women I ask this in my circles corroborate this, it's not men insulting women, chatting about them behind their backs, it's other women doing all of it.

>2
I don't have a much hate towards women really, since I became a normie I haven't cared about most of them and don't speak to any I don't want to, but I do hate THIRSTY betas. Note thirsty. So yes I do generalise with men as well.

>3
No, but women shouldn't feel like they deserve far superior men. They don't. Same the other way around. Guess whose fault it is that women think they can get a gorgeous man while being hideous? Beta losers that spam their inboxes with attention, floods and floods of it, disgusting pathetic subhumans who validate the most putrid of women into believing they're beautiful.

Kill all betas, then women will come to heel soon enough.

If for every woman that liked tall guys, there was one who liked short guys, and one that didn't care, you'd be fine. As it is though, that isn't the case, for every woman who likes short giys, there is like ninety women who dislike them. You are going to be judged in your group in this case and until women as a group get over it you do not get the privilege of being judged as an individual.
Also BULLSHIT at that 25% stat.
That we don't see 1/7 couples with a taller woman than the man.

Is there a feminist perspective on the idea that women may have extra pretensions of themselves due to all this excess thirsty attention that males on the other hand do not receive?

>ex-cel

you haven't had pussy since pussy's had you babe.

>That we don't see 1/7 couples with a taller woman than the man.
Do you mean that the smaller the man, the more limited their dating pool is (to mostly smaller women)?

You are so obviously a guy larping. Probably 6'4" and a khv.