I'm going to take female hormones, take care of my body, and pass as a girl. I only have one life to live...

AGP doesn't go away though, better give in while you're still young

>robots actually try to improve their situation
>"don't do it"

Yes it does. I've read dozens of accounts of men who did reboot their brains and get over it. It's just like any other paraphilia, nothing special. It will respond to the proper treatment.

Why do you think the only accounts we have of transgenderism before the modern era concern men who revelled in degenerate luxury and sexual excess like Nero and Elagabalus.

Because they couldn't do anything about it before?

You don't even know what paraphilia means user. Why do you use psyhiatric terms but then reject what psychology says about gender dysphoria and how to treat it?

Transgender people commit suicide because aren't accepted by others, usually because they don't pass, which itself is usually because they didn't start transition early enough. The number one regret of virtually all trans people is not starting sooner. You will not find a trans person who transitioned as a teenager, passes flawlessly, has supportive friends and family (especially parents) that kill themselves because they are trans. That simply does not happen.

>For thousands of years transgenderism was considered a severe mental illness.
You are literally just making shit up.

Why do you want to turn yourself into a faggot?

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This
When it's about trans issues suddenly it's really important that robots don't do what they want with their lives
As if they had anything to live for in the first place

>Transgender people commit suicide because aren't accepted by others, usually because they don't pass

This is disprovable on three counts.

First, transgender suicide rates are exactly as bad in ultra-left-wing countries like Sweden etc.

Secondly, the rate is so high as to beggar belief--passing 40%. No misery could ever justify a 40% suicide rate. Deformed or paralyzed people or nations living in abject poverty don't have suicide rates of 40%. The notion that transgenders are so hard done by in modern society as to cause a 40% suicide rate is simply ludicrous because you don't see that in any other demographic whatsoever. In fact it is insulting to all kinds of abused and suffering demographics who have it infinitely harder than transgenders do (indeed many people would call them privileged, not hard-done-by).

Thirdly we have ample testimony from innumerable people who made the transition and now bitterly regret it years later.

>You are literally just making shit up.

I can provide you with innumerable quotations from ancient philosophers and pre-mid-20th-century European doctors if you please. Even homosexuality was only taken off the register as a mental illness owing to political pressure in the 1970s.

>Because they couldn't do anything about it before?

We don't so much as hear of a desire of it except among people like that, people with the opportunity to gratify their vices to the utmost. It is simply absent.

Why do you suddenly care?
What if I'm suicidal to begin with and can't get any worse so I might as well?

I hate the concept of cuckolding and you as well for making me defend this, but transexualism is less rational than cuckolding. For the former, someone else fucks the wife is one thing, and raising the kid is another. Most people's wives aren't virgins, and it could be an isolated incident, and as for the other adoption is little different yet people still do that. Who knows, the guy could be impotent or sterile or has some health issues he doesn't want to pass on. There could be a justifiable reason. But mutilating yourself? Making yourself dependent on hormones to sex an extent that if you ever stop you revert back? And mtf are even worse because it's an open wound they have to continuously dilate the hole and prevent the thing the body registers as a wound to prevent it from healing.

Anyway, next time you warn someone, accurately tell them that their desire to mutilate themselves *is even worse* than one's desire to cuck themselves.

Is this your new strategy to make robots take the (((pink pill)))? Absolutely disgusting, kys

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YAAASSS GIRL SLAYYYYYYYY
Organically

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>I don't want to let fate dictate
biology
it's biology that dictates your life and you can't change that.

How can someone be so wrong about literally everything they believe?

How do we live in a world with the fucking internet and people are still so ignorant?

The analogy I'm making there is that what a degenerate sexual paraphilia tells you to do is very often at complete variance with your real-life welfare and happiness.

You were born into this world. This world works the way it works. Anything that goes against the way it works will perish. You were born as something. If you act like you're something else, you will be met with resistance. The world isn't going to change because of the way you feel.

If you feel suicidal take your life into your own hands and correct your way of living. Start walking every day, for hours. Go outside, get in the sunlight, get fresh air, get melatonin into your brain so that you can sleep at night. Correct your diet, stop eating rubbish. Stop masturbating and looking at pornography. Most if not all depression proceeds for the most part from a bad lifestyle.

You're getting spoonfed with proof that you're wrong by a redditfag, and all you decide to do is pull the muh ignorance card. Why don't you stop being ignorant?

>don't make a fire to warm yourself up, it's not natural
>don't wear animal skin to warm and protect yourself, it's not natural
>don't communicate to others with invented words and language, it's not natural
>don't use knowledge your manipulate your diet or health, it's not natural
>don't take medicine or have a procedure done to alter your body, just get sick and die
>etc.

Maybe because we didn't keep records of anyone who wasn't rich as fuck before the modern era?
Also there weren't really any publically available options for treatment, that weren't retarded psuedoscience, until about a couple decades ago.

ALSO AGP is a failed meme of a disease, no real doctors actually support the idea, it's only you idiots online.

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>take your life into your own hands
So I can take hormones as long as I also improve my life?

>spoonfed proof
There were no sources cited for anything he said

We know about all kinds of intimate sexual diseases of the past like gonorrhoea syphilis etc., and have done so from the moment they emerged in Europe. People were very open about all this. If transgenderism was anywhere near as common as it is now it would have been recorded in the medical textbooks. You are simply wrong about this.

>Why do you suddenly care?
It's not "We're all gonna make it" without (You). Don't do it user. Slowly but surely you can improve your life.

Normal r9k advice
>lol kys virgin
Trans advice
>hurr you have so much to live for

But it's literally the only thing I want
I don't care about anything else at this point

>Why do you suddenly care?

Not that guy, but I can assure you that I don't care.

But if you're not, in fact, going to get any better, than there's no need for me to be asked to contribute financially to your care, and no need for me to be asked to participate in or humor your LARP.

Are you gonna let me pound your boihole?
Other who cares?

Let's start with these ones then.

Transsexuals are four times more likely than the average person to be infected with HIV.

Source: nbcnews.com/id/40279043/ns/health-health_care/

About 88% of children who have gender dysphoria do not hold those beliefs when they grow older.

Source: npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=90229789

Only 12% of boys who believe they are transsexuals still believe so when they are older.

Source: ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18194003

MRI scans indicate that MtF transsexuals are either men aroused by the thought of possessing female genitalia or homosexuals who want to seduce straight men.

Source: ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3180619/

41% of transsexuals have tried and failed to commit suicide. Source:

nbcnews.com/id/40279043/ns/health-health_care/

Transsexuals who undergo sex reassignment surgery are more likely to commit suicide.

Source: journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0016885

Most young transsexuals have committed self-harm within the last twelve months.

Source: saravyc.sites.olt.ubc.ca/files/2015/05/SARAVYC_Trans-Youth-Health-Report_EN_Final_Print.pdf#page=44

65% of transsexual youth have seriously considered suicide within the last year.

Source: saravyc.sites.olt.ubc.ca/files/2015/05/SARAVYC_Trans-Youth-Health-Report_EN_Final_Print.pdf#page=44

53% of mothers of transsexual children have Borderline Personality Disorder, compared to only 6% of mothers of normal children.

Source: ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2016237

16% of transsexuals have been sent to jail or prison, compared to 2.7% of the general population.

Source: avp.org/storage/documents/Training and TA Center/FORGE_Trans_People_Police_Incarceration_Facts.pdf

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>don't even know what paraphilia means
paraphillia. Noun. (plural paraphillias) A technical term for a sexual attraction of an unusual or pathological nature.
It's pretty straight forward. I have a friend who's an autogynephiliac. Can only get off while he's imagining himself as a woman, whether that's having sex with a man who feminizes him, wearing girl's outfits,or other such thing. I feel for the guy. Anyway.

The statement of "transexual people commit suicide because they aren't accepted by others" is an outright lie. For one, their rates of suicide do not decrease post surgical transition + hormones. Roughly 40-50% last I checked, even with everything going as smooth as possible. It is not the cure, and by encouraging such madness you are actively harming people. You know what it's really similar to? Body integrity dysphoria. This is where people feel uncomfortable in their bodies, and instead of wanting to chop off their dick they decide to amputate themselves. Lose a leg or an arm or even blind themselves so they'll be more comfortable. Yet the psychiatric community widely recognizes that as a veritable disorder. It's on the same scale, although admittedly different causes (probably, we still aren't certain what causes it).

I mean, I could post you anecdotal account after anecdotal (i know they aren't hard data) of people regretting surgery, i.e. mutilation, but you'll brush it off because it doesn't fit the narrative you've been fed.

Check r/GenderCritical/ for those anecdotal accounts if you care.
Trendy sounding "neo vaginas" or "neo penises" don't have the the proper nerve endings or neural pathways, and in many cases can't even be properly used by the body. The lies you spread hurt people. I'm not fond of transsexuals but I don't want anyone to suffer. Stop.

>You know what it's really similar to? Body integrity dysphoria.

Good point anonymous. Picture related.

Attached: dysphoria.png (497x720, 377K)

First, the study you're quoting doesn't say a 40% suicide rates, it's 40% attempted sometime in their life.
And a cool thing you can find in the same study is that there's a 17% difference between those who are out publically, and those who are still in the closet/only out to a few.
That's almost twice the amount of people attempting suicide just because they're publically out as trans, this suggests that society has a MASSIVE impact on these numbers, meaning yes, it is because of transphobia they experience on a daily basis, we shouldn't have to tell you this.
If you torture a man every day, and that man becomes suicidal, you can't put the blame on him.
No one cares about your anecdotal studies and philosophers, why do they only matter when they're the minority proving your point.
I can show you LITERALLY THOUSANDS of trans people doing much better post transition, and nearly every (actually smart) doctor in the world in agreement on cases like gender dysphoria and it's treatments.
>Even homosexuality was only taken off the register as a mental illness owing to political pressure in the 1970s.
This thought process is so fucking cancer.
Because they craved to political pressure?
How about because we finally voted enough homophobic white guys out of office and let the LGB population have the same rights as the rest of the straight people.
Which they are STILL BEING DENIED TO THIS DAY.

>jews are conspiring to destroy the white race
>the earth is flat
>vaccines cause autism
>global warming is a hoax
>gender dysphoria isn't real / transition is a hoax

How do people actually believe these things?

>the entire medical and scientific communities of the modern world universally advocate for transition to treat gender dysphoria and have numerous studies to back up their findings, they just made it all up to make money from the tiniest minority that exists

How can you be this stupid? How can you have such a huge ego that you think that you know better than so many educated professionals?

>posting tabloid shit
>expecting to be taken seriously

Why do you assume we don't care? Yes, I'll call you faggot, and if you're doing something stupid I'll laugh or cringe. But I don't want you to suffer, user.

As this guy says, fate has nothing to do with it. You're XX or XY.

I get that, I do. I just think you're mistaken for attempting that point as a cuckold is able to actually be satisfied with that life, unlike transexuals who end up killing themselves anyway because transitioning isn't a solution.
>what a paraphilia tells you to do is often at complete variance with your real life welfare and happiness
I agree mostly to this, though.

An incestuous relationship can work out. It has many more barriers than a normal one, but it can work. A cuckoldry relationship can work out as well. Again, many more barriers, but doable. Transitioning? You're kicking the can down the road. You'll be a middle-aged man or woman unable to pass, be known as what you actually are, and probably even worse because the last few years you spent under the delusion that will inevitably shatter.

I mean, we're in agreement, I just liken this as something beyond a mere paraphilia and into the realm of mutilation, life changing (for the worse), and etc. A cuckold can "wake up" and decide to not entertain that anymore. A man who has mutilated his penis can not get it back.

>already a year into hormones
>feel way better and not going to stop
How do you feel?

>First, the study you're quoting doesn't say a 40% suicide rates, it's 40% attempted sometime in their life.

I used the phrase suicide rate loosely but the point doesn't really materially change. That's still 40% of a demographic that wanted to be dead, even if not everybody succeeded.

Your stuff about "torturing a man every day" etc. simply does not hold water for reasons which I outlined earlier, namely that no other demographic has an attempted suicide rate like this--people in abject poverty, deformed people, paralyzed people, etc. The Jews I think you will agree were infinitely more persecuted in Nazi Germany than transgenders are in Sweden today (say) and yet did they have a 40% attempted-suicide rate? As far as I'm aware the suicide rate was not even noticeably higher or else somebody would have written about it.

"Phobic" is a foolish left-wing smear-suffix which begs the question by falsely implying that one has an irrational fear of what one disapproves of. If homosexuality is normal, why do homosexuals have hundreds of sexual partners in their lives; why do they die at the age of forty or fifty on average; etc. etc. This is not normal, natural, moral, in a word happy behaviour.

>You know what it's really similar to? Body integrity dysphoria. This is where people feel uncomfortable in their bodies, and instead of wanting to chop off their dick they decide to amputate themselves. Lose a leg or an arm or even blind themselves so they'll be more comfortable. Yet the psychiatric community widely recognizes that as a veritable disorder. It's on the same scale, although admittedly different causes (probably, we still aren't certain what causes it).

It's also similar to anorexia, insofar as it's a compulsion to attempt to control one's body in reaction to a delusional dysphoria.

The psychiatric community recognizes these other things as disorders because they don't involve sex. The trans disorder manifests itself in ways that have analogues in gay sexuality, and therefore it had to be normalized somehow. The psychiatric community chose the incredibly intellectually dishonest method of attempting to simultaneously pathologize it (to justify chemical and surgical intervention) *and* normalize it.

The modern psychiatric community will do whatever is required to embrace "sexual freedom". If there was a way to make Jew-killing into a sexual perversion, eventually the psychiatric community would defend Nazism.

Just go to /lgbt/ OP
We can both do it, I believe in you

You are attempting to conflate the argument with others, as a way to distract and dismiss the opposition as idiots / ignorant. Further more, you aren't even making an argument. Your entire post is:
>how can people believe this?
>how can you be this stupid?
None of those are arguments, whereas me and this other guy are posting sources and information.
Why do you wish to see these people mutilate themselves, user?

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19132621
> Lobbies of persons suffering from BIID explain the desire for amputation in analogy to the desire of transsexuals for surgical sex reassignment. Medical ethicists discuss the controversy about elective amputations of healthy limbs: on the one hand the principle of autonomy is used to deduce the right for body modifications; on the other hand the autonomy of BIID patients is doubted.
Read this and understand the implications. You are not in the right state of mind if you wish to mutilate yourself. "The autonomy of BIIB patients is doubted."

"Instead of only curing the symptom, a causal therapy should be developed to integrate the alien limb into the body image." Do you see this? Therapy is what is needed, possibly medication I'm not certain which would work best.

>attacking the source and not what it presents
Is the new york times more acceptable for you, faggot?
nytimes.com/2005/03/22/health/psychology/at-war-with-their-bodies-they-seek-to-sever-limbs.html

There are all kinds of things that large bodies of men have been and still are collectively wrong about. As for example when Europe was in the Dark Ages and every educated person thought that infidels would face eternal hellfire, or when Galileo was persecuted, or to take a more recent example when the medical profession zealously maintained that smoking was not harmful for you even though its nefarious effects had been recognized as early as James I's Counterblast to Tobacco. Submitting your mind to authority instead of reason and evidence is foolish. Most of the modern intelligentsia support mass immigration into Western societies; do you agree with that?

>If you torture a man every day, and that man becomes suicidal, you can't put the blame on him.

You aren't being "tortured" if people don't believe you're a woman.

I don't have to participate in the fucking LARP you're undertaking because you believe it will be mentally therapeutic. I don't owe you that. I owe you nothing.

No one else gets to demand that I think *anything* or that I affirm *any* notion of theirs. You are no exception.

>AIIIIIEEEE oh my god you're torturing me!

If that's torture, then I guess you're just going to have to kill yourself.

>Most of the modern intelligentsia support mass immigration into Western societies; do you agree with that?
Your post before this would have been fine, but once you bring politics into it most people will turn off their brains and say "oh, I guess he's a nazi / republican / whatever, lol makes sense why he disagrees, the dumb dumb" Don't give people an easy out or they'll take it.

At least link it properly. The funny thing is the gay community is very split on the idea of transexuals, as is the whole feminism thing. For the first group, if it's sexuality they care about, why is transexuals, something that has nothing inherently to do with sexuality, part of them? Dilutes their message. For the second group, if gender is a social construct than do we really need feminism? (also they hate men getting into it and calling themselves women, it's pretty funny).

And yet, despite ample sources to the contrary, you haven't posted anything yourself yet, evidence wise. I don't know why you're arguing really. I only want the best for you, user. I would suggest therapy for anons with OCD just as much as I would suggest therapy for people with a genital version of body identity disorder (otherwise known as transexualism).

If we met in public, I would refuse to entertain your desires. I would call you man even if you were post surgery, had the genital wound and breast implants and everything else. I wouldn't do it out of spite, and there would be no malicious intent. You simply aren't a woman (this is presuming you're a mtf, obviously reverse the stuff for ftm). I am a bleeding heart, ironically. And kindness to me starts with accepting reality and moving on from there.

Also, for the rights being denied, no they're not. No one has the right to assault anyone, every man has the right to marry a woman whether they're straight or gay, etc. These rights are all universal already. Rights you make up aren't granted because they're made up.

why is Jow Forums such a joke

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If you're still in your early twenties, and you're already reasonably feminine, it might be a worthwhile investment. Some of the people who say you'll regret it have never done it before, and severely misinterpret your situation, not knowing that what makes you happy may be different from what makes them happy.

It's going to be extremely difficult socially speaking. You won't be able to stealth, even if you pass. Anyone you get close to will eventually know or need to know, and the stress of hiding something like that is high. Very few people will think of you or interact with you like a real woman, you have to be prepared for that too. Some people will treat you as a walking virtue signal. Some females may keep you around because you give them a superiority complex. A lot of people will simply be confused about how to treat you because gender plays a large role in adult interactions. And of course you'll have people who will harass you, or vehemently hate you. If you don't fit in now, you REALLY won't fit in afterwards on a very deep and fundamental level. Even the people who want to like you will have primal reservations.

If you regret it, breast tissue (though not the fat surrounding it- arguably even worse) and sterilization are generally permanent. So don't do this if you want kids or think you might want kids or you're afraid of having moobs. Fat distribution and muscle reduction is not permanent, and you'll revert to a more masculine countenance after a few months. If you're still going through puberty, some arrested growth in bone structure will be permanent, some not.

I've detransitioned because I couldn't handle the social vulnerabilities associated with it. Now whenever anyone addresses me I go by whatever they're doing. However, I don't regret HRT in the least, but that's because how it's altered me suits me well regardless of how I identify. I'm also very reclusive, naturally and as a result of my interactions after transitioning.

I myself go to Jow Forums, and I agree with everything that that guy said, including the mass migration being harmful to western society. It's simply that there's a time and a place for certain political stuff and this isn't it. The views they normally hold are more or less correct, but given such a large userbase and the propensity for people to go "atlastitrulysee.jpg, WAKE UP SHEEPLE" mean that you'll see people blur the lines. Not many are able to hold a conversation to a single topic without going all over the place, and this is true for every group of people, not merely the Jow Forumsacks.

Don't forget to mention that men and women have generally different bone structures as well, so even with the muscular differences, for those who actually pay attention it's incredibly difficult to pass. Surgeries expensive, pills mean constant upkeep, dilation if mtf requires an hour everyday at first, the entire thing is a mess.

Look, you have a body, and there's a ton of things you have to do to not even fully change it. Your mind is incredibly malleable though. I don't know why the treatment because "change the body (hard) instead of change the mind (relatively easy, at least by comparison)."

Also, for my own curiosity, did you do the surgery person I quoted above?

>I want to take fate into my own hands and be the person I've always dreamed of.

A faggot that cuts off their own dick?

Cool

Wow a lot of long ass posts that I won't read in this thread

No, I had a late puberty (around 11 or 12) and started when I was 15. Most of my bone structure was within the limits of female physiology (I did measurements) at the time, foot size meant I could wear women's shoes. I was extremely lucky, body wise. If I had started later it probably would not have been worthwhile. I never planned on vaginoplasty, though I did and still do want to eventually get the castration surgery (either one commits you to hormones for life, though, because of the risk of osteoporosis).

>Your mind is incredibly malleable though
Do you know this from personal experience, or are you guessing? Is altering someone else's mind in order to correct non-harmful behavior that isn't socially normative ethical? If OP wants to brainwash themselves by their own imperative, that's their decision, though I'm not sure how efficacious it would be. Nobody should have to alter their minds because the idea of them altering their bodies instead personally offends you, conflicts with your worldview or gives you cause to worry. That being said, OP should know the risks associated with whatever course of action they choose to take.

>I'm going to take female hormones, take care of my body, and pass as a girl. I only have one life to live, I don't want to let fate dictate who I am like I'm some kind of medieval peasant, I want to take fate into my own hands and be the person I've always dreamed of.
You are truly brave OP
I respect you a lot

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Thank you user, that means a lot. I won't disappoint you.

>About 88% of children who have gender dysphoria do not hold those beliefs when they grow older.
>Only 12% of boys who believe they are transsexuals still believe so when they are older.
These are the same study.
It's a group size of 25.
Most of the other ones are equally bullshit.
Do you ever wonder why the articles and studies you link lack substance?
Why they're all one-two paragraphs?
Here's what a real ncbi study looks like
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/26788901/

It's nice that you're going to act like roleplaying a woman will somehow make your pathetic life worth living user. Should keep you busy for a while at least

>Which they are STILL BEING DENIED TO THIS DAY.

name one

>Do you know this from personal experience, or are you guessing?
Both from experience as well as the fact that psychology as a field is built on the entire idea of changing your mind / thought habits.
The body is biologically unable to change away from it's blueprint though.

And yes, sometimes correcting "non harmful" behavior is ethical. For instance, the thought of "boy i wish I was a girl" alone isn't bad. The thought of "boy I wish i was a girl so much I would mutilate myself" is bad, and at that point the individual is no longer in a sound enough mind to be able to make decisions on what would be the best for them. Little different from addicts, sexual abusers, and etc. They simply need help.

>why do homosexuals have hundreds of sexual partners in their lives; why do they die at the age of forty or fifty on average; etc. etc.
None of this is true.
>And yet, despite ample sources to the contrary, you haven't posted anything yourself yet, evidence wise.
IDK what posts you think are mine, but only this one you quoted here.
I used numbers from the same study you were referencing, as I'm very familiar with it.
I could find it if you like, I have also posted a few links to generic gender dysphoria stuff, all of which have many studies backing up transitioning as the most effective treatment for gender dysphoria.
Like here
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/26788901/
I am a mtf woman, my chromosomes are XY but that has nothing to do with my appearance.
I pass pretty well I guess, most people assume female pronouns when first meeting me, I actually got told I should be a model today :3 too bad Victoria's secret isn't hiring, a few persistent assholes that knew me before insist on using male ones.
What you are is delusional.
If you came up to me and started using male pronouns, people would question you.
Because it doesn't matter that I have a dick tucked up in my panties, or my karyotype doesn't match other cis girls, what matters publically is my appearance.
Would you need to describe me to someone, saying he would direct them away from me, would you need to get my attention, I would not respond to sir.
You're using the language wrong on a basic level.
So if we have people who you think are men, happily living as women and being seen as women, maybe being a woman is more than your genitals or chromosomes.
Is this too hard to grasp?
>...Rights you make up aren't granted because they're made up.
No one said anything about assault.
What rights are you saying are being made up?
I'm talking about how two gay guys/girls literally can't get married in a few states still, and are being denied services daily for the same reasons.

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Although sample size of 25 isn't great, when the numbers are small enough a sample size of that size is acceptable merely because you'd have great difficulty finding too many
1. transexual children
2. transexual children whose parents would also be willing to agree to such a study
3. keeping in contact with those same children/teenagers because if you notice it's a longitudinal study.

In fact, you didn't even attack what the study said, only it's sample size.
>most of the other ones are equally bullshit
No. He provided sources and studies, you don't get to write them off as bullshit without addressing *why* they're bullshit *especially* without posting your own material.

Put up or shut up, user.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-sex_marriage_in_the_United_States
*cough*
nytimes.com/2018/10/21/us/politics/transgender-trump-administration-sex-definition.html

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You're really courageous, OP. I hope you find happiness; if you do what's right for yourself and surround yourself with people who care about you, I know you will.

Godspeed

>>why do homosexuals have hundreds of sexual partners in their lives; why do they die at the age of forty or fifty on average; etc. etc.
>None of this is true.
carm.org/statistics-homosexual-promiscuity
>"Bell and Weinberg reported evidence of widespread sexual compulsion among homosexual men. 83% of the homosexual men surveyed estimated they had had sex with 50 or more partners in their lifetime, 43% estimated they had sex with 500 or more partners; 28% with 1,000 or more partners.

This is so well known that you can find innumerable sites discussing this as commonly acceptable knowledge.
contexts.org/blog/an-unequal-distribution-of-partners-gays-versus-straights/
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4667785/
And a host of others.

>talking about two guys marrying / two girls marrying
Men have the right to marry women, women have the right to marry men. These rights are not denied to them. They presume they have the right to marry whoever they want. This isn't the case.

To further elaborate on this, marriage was introduced for the sake of children and passing on property / other such things that homosexuals need not concern themselves with. Differing tax burdens are also to make it easier to start / raise a family, something again that is not applying to them. You would have a point with hospital visitations, but I don't think that should restricted anyway.

He posted like 20 shit studies trying to gish-gallop the thread with fucking false information.
Look into them yourself I got bored after scanning through the first five and finding no substantial information, especially on what he was quoting.
There are many MANY more credible studies out there with sample sizes in the hundreds of thousands finding the exact opposite of what he is posting.
There was a recent study of over 300 kids where they had a less than 1% de-transitioners rate, 2 people, as the kids weren't being actively discouraged from transitioning (imagine that)
Both of the people mentioned lack of support from family and friends as one of the major reasons they de-transitioned
I can find it if you want I'mma have to dig deep in my Twitter tho

>The body is biologically unable to change away from it's blueprint though
Except this is demonstrably false to a certain degree, otherwise people wouldn't be able to use hormones in order bring their bodies closer to a state where they're comfortable. It also appears to me that you're operating on the assumption that hormone therapy can only ever lead to an increased displeasure with oneself rather than a decreased one. I've personally experienced the exact opposite and I was pleased with the results of it.

>The thought of "boy I wish i was a girl so much I would mutilate myself" is bad
Do you consider all forms of cosmetic surgery to be self-mutilation? How is hormone therapy self-mutilation, when all associated risks are accounted for? I hope it's not just a question of aesthetics because they're very subjective. Why would you know what's better for someone than they themselves, especially considering that you lack their perspective? You can call any behavior you disagree with "mentally ill" in order to justify your desire to control a person that exhibits them, so what concrete rules do you use when deciding whether someone deserves to have their autonomy taken away by you?

If I had listened to people who take your stance when I was a teenager I would be worse off today. Although my body still doesn't match my ideal I'm happier because it is closer to matching it.

>Both from experience as well as the fact that psychology as a field is built on the entire idea of changing your mind / thought habits.
You would rather someone change the seat of what makes them a unique individual, the closest thing to a soul that we have, than the vehicle that expresses it, over something that's basically benign. It makes as little sense to me as I'm sure my viewpoint does to you. And psychologically changing sexual orientation is proven to hardly ever work out, I'm sure with gender identity the results will be similarly messy.

I was more pointing to the die at forty thing but sure.
People have sex, get over it neet.

Marriage has been recognized as a union between two people for millennia, just because your priest tells you otherwise doesn't make it true.
On childbearing there are plenty of children to adopt.
They can also have a courier, or better yet, one of them could be trans and they could make a baby the old fashioned way!
What about couples that don't have kids? Should we go revoke their marriage license and take away their tax benefits?

Do you honestly think your wife's only purpose is to bear your children, how do you not see a problem with your way of thinking?

lmao kill yourself you fucking freak

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> take care of my body
good luck with that

>I'm going to take female hormones
tfw doing this too
>take care of my body, and pass as a girl
but am too depressed/hopeless to even bother trying to do this

Is that Jade from Homestuck?