Modern society bad

You assume a lot. I liked the painting. It illustrates the contrast quite well.

I'm really getting tired of Luddites.

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Yes. So tired you are definitely going to do something about it.
Like lie on your bed watching netflix while drinking your cup of onions with your anal beads firmly shut in your gastrovascular entrance.

So, what's the cutoff? Where does technology turn from good to bad? Should we abolish the printing press? The written word in general? What about mathematics? Medicine?
"Modern technology" goes far beyond smartphones and online shopping.

It's not about my personal opinion or fancies. As long as the technoindustrial system is allowed to exist, it will continue to grow and enslave. No matter how much you reduce it, it will reform.
The only way to get rid off it, is to get rid off it all.

Choosing one over the other is brainlet-tier. Smart people realize it's retarded not to have a bit of both.

How do you like those blinders you're wearing? So intelligent and middle positioned of you.

>take a long hard look at both sides
>"Hmmm, I like the peace and quiet of nature, and the ability to fuck off from society every one in a while. I also like challenging myself in the outdoors and reveling in my human nature."
>"Wow, I also like the convenience of modern living and having a balanced, disposable income to spend on modern luxuries"
>"I know! I'll live in an urban area, and take time off when I need it to visit the wilderness as I see fit!"
>"lmao fag nice narrow mindedness"

>The only way to get rid off it, is to get rid off it all
So we should go back to being prehistoric monkeys, chasing down wild beasts and eating them raw? That's fucking stupid. Technological advancements are an element of our evlution. They're key to our survival as a species. If we unanimously decided to stop evolving and to go back to the stone age, we'd simply die out.
Technologies only enslaves those foolish enough not to fully utilize them. If you use them to do nothing but sit on your ass browsing Jow Forums and watching netflix, of course you're a slave. But you're a complacent slave. An endless expanse of knowledge lies at your fingertips, easily accessible with the clicks of a few buttons.

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I don't see why humans would die out. They managed for hundreds of thousands of years.
Now it doesn't matter how you use technology, you are still a slave. You don't make your own decisions, you have no influence on your future. You are insignificant cog, and no human can be happy like that. We need power.

you don't even understand this argument if you think watching tv makes you a slave

genetic modification is what will start setting this all off

>They managed for hundreds of thousands of years.
Yes, because we were evolving, you utter fucking moron. Not at the rate we are now, but we were still advancing.
>You don't make your own decisions, you have no influence on your future. You are insignificant cog,
Even if we assume this is true, I don't see how having no technology would change this. We'd go from being insignificant cogs in a great, big machine to being insignificant cogs in a much smaller machine.
Explain yourself, then. Don't expect me to be able to read your mind.

Advancing technologically is not the same as evolving, but nevermind that. I cannot see what would prevent humans from living as hunter gatherers again. Except from the technoindustrial system, of course.
>We'd go from being insignificant cogs in a great, big machine to being insignificant cogs in a much smaller machine.
What small machine?

>Explain yourself, then.

that was my first post in the thread, you have no idea what you're talking about if you think the worst thing technology does it makes "people watch teevee" and "be slaves"

technology will make everyone who isn't at the top a slave eventually, and if they don't have the ability for it they will be modified to do it and have no choice in the matter, probably in 40-50 years it will be that bad

have you read uncle teds manifesto?

the painting on the left is from 1912, air polution was probably way worse back than, at least in the west.

this but unironically instead

>IC-7851
$13,000 for a fucking radio...

Does it matter? The painting illustrates the relative closeness to nature that was found just a hundred years ago.

It was built using materials from nature, from Earth, so it's still part of nature.

You are a sophist and like all sophists, a bore.

>Advancing technologically is not the same as evolving
The two go hand in hand. Humans are a species that have learned to evolve at a much faster pace than any other creature.
>I cannot see what would prevent humans from living as hunter gatherers again.
Like I said, we'd die out. It wouldn't happen quickly, but eventually either some major catastrophe would cripple our population, or another species would evolve to take the earth from us. You said yourself that "We need power." Technology gives us that power. Both as individuals and as a species.
>What small machine?
The small machine of a tribe as opposed to the big machine of a country or corporation.
>that was my first post in the thread
Why are you jumping into the middle of a debate and telling me I'm the one who doesn't understand the argument?
As for "genetic modification" boogiemen, I don't entirely disagree with you. But there comes good with the bad. Genetic modification will bring with it longer health spans and greater quality of life.

I don't know that humans are evolving faster than other creatures.
>but eventually either some major catastrophe would cripple our population, or another species would evolve to take the earth from us.
What timeframe are we talking here? A million years at least for some other species to evolve into a competitor for humans. Something which would only be possible in the absence of humans.
>Technology gives us that power
Technlogy doesn't give power, it takes power away from you and makes you a slave to propagate itself.
>The small machine of a tribe
You have some involvement in the decision making then. You don't have any now.

I would gladly give all this technology up if all the land wasn't private property and I could live in a village with people just like me and be paired with a wife who loves me.

>Technlogy doesn't give power, it takes power away from you.
If I have a gun, and you have a sharp stick, who's the one with the power?

>technology doesn't give power
Okay, then go hunt an elephant armed with only spears and bows while you give another dude some modern equipment and weapons, let's see who will perform better. Or instead if you prefer a more peaceful route go plant some stuff using only equipment, while someone else is using modern equipment and technologies, see wich one of you will be able to feed more people.

Which of you have surprise element.

But without bullets stick is better.

Even without bullets a gun is superior, do you even know how much damage the bitt of a simple pistol can do to someone? Besides, you can still have the element of surprise with or without bullets, if it's a one-on-one fight.

Killing is bad example, as comparing that befriending elephant sounds more healthy.
.
And even with farming idea is for enaugh food not more.

>surprise element
Kek, I'll take a loaded pistol over "surprise element" any day.

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I expect that stick is longer.
I ment for bith statements to be separate.

You could trow it, sure.

A weapon can easily be made by yourself. I am talking about the advanced technology that require larger societies with work distribution.

It seems to me what you're advocating for is leading a simple life, not a life devoid of technology.
I recommend you practice what you preach, get off your ass, and start a commune of like minded individuals.

>befriending elephant sounds more healthy
Are you a child? Taming elephants has little if anything to do with technology, what it needs is technique, you don't get that from being either a tree hugger or a cyberpunk junkie. Do you think that just because you love nature, nature will love you back?

I don't see how a gun makes you powerful. It doesn't give you the ability to decide your own future. You can't even use it on anyone without being sent to jail.

And how does nature gove you the ability to decide your own future?

It offers a way for people to self-reliant, living in the conditions we are psychologically and physiologically adapted to.

>It doesn't give you the ability to decide your own future
And how does having a pointy stick instead of a gun give you the power to decide your own future? If anything, it gives you less power. If I decide to shoot you, you've got absolutely no power to stop your death.

Then it's nature that has the power, not yourself. If a swarm of locusts come and eat all your crops right before harvest, you've got no power to stop yourself from going hungry.

If you have a spear you can go up against a bear with the feeling that you have a chance to win.
How will you go up against the rent that's due? You getting fire. The boredom of your life? The military in all its might? You can't. You are overwhelmed.

You wouldn't decide to shoot me, because you are a domesticated individual who wouldn't do anything that could threathen his own safety.

>If you have a spear you can go up against a bear
Try going up against a bear with a spear then get back to me. I'm sure in the movies the hero always manages to kill the beast and look like a badass in the process, but IRL, that bear is tearing you to shreds and you won't be able to do anything to stop it.
Unless you have a gun.
>How will you go up against the rent that's due?
Like the hunter who goes up against the bear with a spear, one goes up against employers looking for a paid job. But the consequences of getting a rejected application are very preferable to the consequences of losing against a bear, in my opinion.
As for "boredom," I'm very happy to live in the world where such simple grievances can trouble me.
If you're coming after me with a pointed stick, you can bet your ass I'll shoot you. And I'd only be congratulated for doing so.

>I am talking about the advanced technology that require larger societies with work distribution.
All the tecnology used in hospitals nowadays and all the medicine that rid us of deadly diseases and made the human lifespan much longer. The simple fact that you can go to a mall and buy just about anything you need for your basic needs and hygiene. The safety and stability of livkng in an organized society with division of labour. Would you throw all that away to live in a tribe?

A bear you have a chance against. Modern society you don't. You don't have any power to overcome the ailments you face.

Yes, medicine that contribute to overpopulation.
Very bad.
>Would you throw all that away to live in a tribe?
Yes.

>A bear you have a chance against
No, you don't. Try going up against a bear and seeing how easy it is. The bear will always strike you down.
>Modern society you don't
Yes, you do. There are those rare cases of people who go from rags to riches. Who, either by luck or hard work, pull themselves up into a position of power.
But I suppose those people don't have power in your eyes, simply because they don't grow their own food.

>overpopulation
Biggest meme out there
As countries become more and more developed, birthrates decrease and decrease. Just look at Japan. In a few hundred years our problem will be underpopulation, not overpopulation.

>would you throw all that away to live in a tribe?
Not him but yes I would

People used to hunt bears with spears. Not really a point of contention.
>Yes, you do. There are those rare cases of people who go from rags to riches.
So a rich slave instead of a poor slave. They are still slaves.

>yfw when you realize that modern society is still nature

Humans evolved to live in small groups. They didn't evolve to the human density of cities. There is a correlation between mental illness and population density.

Humans are capable of adapting. Many millions have adapted to live in the conditions of a dense city. Correlation does not equal causation.

Then how come that are quite a few self-made millionaires and people living a comfortable live in midlle class? Just because they may still depend on other people doesn't mean they're powerless, humans are a social animal, having to live with and depend of others has kind of been our thing since before humanity started organizing itself in tribes.
As said, overpopulation is a meme.

I think you're saying things, but you don't understand what you're saying.
Humans cannot adapt beyond the phenotypic plasticidity provided by their genes, and it is true that correlation alone doesn't equal causation, I didn't post a correlation by itself, I also posted the suggested causal relationship.

>People used to hunt bears with spears
Yeah, and many people used to die in bear attacks.
If you return to nature, you become a slave to nature. Any day a pack of beasts, or a swarm of locusts, or a blight, or a harsh winter could come and wipe you out and you;d be powerless to stop it. If I really have to be a slave (which I don't) I;d rather be a slave in a comfortable, ventilated household than a slave in a hut on the savanna.

Comfortable slaves. Never before have they been so unhappy.

You wouldn't be powerless. You could fight it. In Modern society you completely resign yourself to the life of a couch potato. A wageslave. A domesticated man.

quality of life and happiness have risen

Mental illness is chiefly caused by genetic predisposition, not by living in densely populated areas. Like I said, millions of people function fine within the confines of a dense city. If your argument is that we can't adapt to living in cities, then hundreds of years have already proven you wrong.

Even in nature you will still be a slave. A slave to the rules of natures, a slave to life, a slave to your instincts, a slave to your emotions. The only freedom you can achieve in life is death

>In Modern society you completely resign yourself to the life of a couch potato
Speak for yourself, faggot. I spend my time studying, writing, and expanding my mind. If you can't find anything worthwhile to do within modern society, it's because you're not a very creative thinker.

Say it again, maybe you'll believe it.

I think the problem is that you are a very shallow thinker. So dense that you do not notice the thorn in your side nor the bars that surround you.

Yet more projection. If you have a problem with civilization, remove yourself from it. Your presence on this website proves you a hypocrite.

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Genetic predisposition or not, it shows itself more the higher the population density.

quality of life and happiness have objectively risen

I don't think my statement can be considered a "projection" in any assesment. I don't think you know what a "projection" is supposed to be.

>it shows itself more the higher the population density
Maybe because, I don't know, there are more people in highly populated areas????

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Ok, then go practice what you preac and live your happy life in a mud hut in the middle of nowhere, growing crops and trying not to get mauled by wolves or wathever other wild animal is also hungry for the meat you have. Meanwhile I'll enjoy my sad life in an air conditioned home with a stable, steady and reliable source of food, water, heat, energy, shelter and sometimes entertainment, only having to pay the oh-so-awful proce of having a 9 to 5 job from monday to friday.

Objectively now. What an amusing little monkey you are.

I am talking about the rates. Really I get the feeling I am talking to people who aren't the brightest here.

No. You can't escape the reach of the technoindustrial system. You have to destroy it.

You feel unfulfilled within modern society. You've made that very clear. You're projecting that lack of fulfillment onto me, calling it a "thorn at my side." I, on the other hand, am quite comfortable where I am, and realize a return to nature would only make life more difficult and distract me from pursuits of the mind.

you're just a pawn in my little game.

You're not even listening to his point you blithering retard.

Speacially considering some of them want to abandon the modern world and go live in a tribe.

Cite me the studies where they've proven that densely populated areas show the development of mental illness at a greater rate than sparsely populated areas.

there is more closeness to nature today though

Have you heard of isolated uncontacted tribes?

I am not projecting anything onto you. I am making a qualitative statement based on my knowledge of human and animal behavior and population biology.
You can say whatever you want, but the facts are all on my side. Animals in zoos are unhappy. Humans in modern society are too.

There is no point. Air pollution was worse and is better now? So one thing is better in some parts of the world, while a 1000 things have gotten worse.

Especially*
hehehehe

I was 17 once too OP.

They live on the whim of modern society. If some natural resource was found in their territory, they wouldn't last long.

>the facts are all on my side
You have stated no facts in your argument. Only heavily biased personal opinions.
>Animals in zoos are unhappy
Depends on the zoo. There are plenty of run-down zoos where the animals live in confined spaces. But there are also animals who thrive in captivity. Just look at dogs and cats. Would you really say that a stray mutt is more happy than a well-fed dog in a loving home?

I''ll give you that, you got me there.

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>after making his post, he snickered to himself, readjusting his buttplug slightly and opened a new tab to check on the latest episode of his favorite anime show of the season. This was going to be good. Misaka, Yuugi, Chichoo, Papya and Hoohoon were all going to the beach. Oh how he loved those girls. He took to a sip of his soilent and picked up his nintendo ds. a quick game of super mario before the show. what a great time to be alive.

You confuse the passifying signals the dog gives you with expressions of satisfaction. The dog will never be satisfied untill it is the alpha.

Lol didn't read past the first few words but I can tell I really cut deep. Leave, you're underage.

Oh yes, the natural resource meme. Even if they had natural resources that wouldn't change a thing, they're damn near insignificant to modern society, to the point where the average joe doesn't even know about there existance, and the ones that do only treat it as some cool trivia to tell at the dining table.

>The dog will never be satisfied untill it is the alpha
Part of your argument seems to imply that every human on earth desires power and control. I'll discard the obvious point that returning to nature would only strip them of power. Instead, I'll point out that most people are followers, not leaders. They're perfectly content with following that which they deem the commander.
Yes, some dogs are satisfied not being the alpha.