Why aren't you a vegan?

>give me one good argument against veganism, ill wait
I like meat.
What about vitamin B12?
And plants proteins differ in amino acid composition in regards to animal proteins, they have less methionine for example.

Eggs are easy protein
That's the only non-vegan thing I eat.

I like eating meat. I don't eat based on ethics.

yes, but its incredibly immoral and evil. these are intelligent animals who you needlessly torture and kill for your amusement
>but stake is tasty
sure, but its still unbelievable immoral and evil. this is like saying "but i like to torture rape and kill children because its fun and i can get away with it because im more powerful"

heres pigs screaming for life right before they are killed. i like pigs the most because they are the loudest. i LOVE the screamers, i hate the shy ones like lambs because they dont make any noise
youtube.com/watch?v=rVR7NjnMkIc

enjoying being an obese pig, i guess

B12!!!!!!!

fucking vegfaggots!

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I really only care about animals arbitrarily. I'm not the one killing them so I don't give a shit. they are already dead so the least I could do is eat them. not like I even buy them directly from farms or slaughterhouses.

>"but i like to torture rape and kill children because its fun and i can get away with it because im more powerful"
If kid meat was really tasty and legal, I would slaughter them without any regret.

And if everyone became vegan, how would we manage all our lifestock?
You can't throw them in the wilds like that. And since a lot of apex predators got rekt, they'll destroy the ecosystem.

>What about vitamin B12?
yes, there are some vitamin deficiencies that vegans have, but those are corrected with proper suplementation

>And plants proteins differ in amino acid composition in regards to animal proteins, they have less methionine for example.
wow cool. you still can very easily get virtually all your nutrition from plants beans fruits and vegetables

a ton of these animals are heavily infected and diseased too. like there's TONS of cancers and all kinds of weird tumors growing inside these animals. and the butches just chop them off and serve the meat like nothing happened. on the inside of the tumor its GREEN or some odd color sometimes, and this is a common occurrence

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chicken tastes good

>why aren't you a vegan?
Mainly because I don't want to turn into pic related

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>protein
Eat onions

>I'm not the one killing them so I don't give a shit
ahhhh, so you're one of those coward hypocrites who financially supports others doing the dirty work for him?

could you kill a family of pigs right before they scream loudly for your bacon and ribs? because although i disagree with meat eaters who kill their meat, i respect them to some degree because they understand where the meat comes from

its the coward rat hypocrite who willingly hides from the truth because its uncomfortable to him that i have the least respect for

>they are already dead so the least I could do is eat them. not like I even buy them directly from farms or slaughterhouses
but you LITERALLY do. you financially support their slaughter by buying the meat. it doesn't matter how much middle men there are in the process, you are paying for all of them, including the farm owner who raised them in cages so small that they cant move for their ENTIRE LIFE, and then killed them. you are financially rewarding and supporting this torture institution every time you buy non-vegan

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ahh, so you prefer the classic look of boogie2988? great choice, i must say

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most vegans i meet are twig-like. most blacks i meet who can lift heavy shit eat the fuck out of some fried chicken. i would like to imitate the latter and reproduce with the former.

>yes, there are some vitamin deficiencies that vegans have, but those are corrected with proper supplementation.
How is it supposed to convince me?
You're telling me that in order to have your healthy diet, you need chemicals made in some labs?
And think about it, how do they produce those supplements?
Protip: animals tissues.

>wow cool. you still can very easily get virtually all your nutrition from plants beans fruits and vegetables
Didn't answer properly the question. You said virtually but the lacking elements are still vitals, you know? Methionine is a pretty important amino acid in animal biology. Meanwhile plants have also some useless amino acids for us.

>a ton of these animals are heavily infected and diseased too. like there's TONS of cancers and all kinds of weird tumors growing inside these animals. and the butches just chop them off and serve the meat like nothing happened. on the inside of the tumor its GREEN or some odd color sometimes, and this is a common occurrence.
Hehehe, you know your body literally produce several cancer cells a day?
Besides, plants can also have tumors and sickness some even very well known, causing epidemics (like ergotism back in the days). Besides, being exposed to virus and bacteria is good, it strengthen your immune system.
Tell me more about this green tumor thing. As a scientist working with cancer cells, I've never heard of green tumors, can you tell me what pigment would cause that or did you mix up the tumor with what's in your plate?

I've long since past the point of moral nihilism, veganism sucks because it needs slightly more effort to be one than to not be one.
Also unlike the blacks, pigs and cow will never rise up, so why care?

>vegans are actually considered terrorists in the USA
Keep dreaming, all you'll ever do is brag about how you eat vegetables, you barely put a dent in society with your insufferable whining.

just a bait thread desu animal products are the only real food

No one can prove you wrong because it is inherently a moral argument. That ultimately comes down to a value judgment which is based on faith or belief.

One argument is that it is expensive if you want to gain adequate nutrition for lifting or maintaining significant muscle mass. There also other nutritional needs that are hard to maintain without supplements and/or extensive effort. This wouldn't affect the average joe, but elite athletes or bodybuilders would note the difficulties with this.

Morally, all animals rely on consumption of other life to carry on, even herbivores. It's boils down to just the way that the cells that comprise you and every other person are. Unless you somehow have the power to photosynthesize and/or create your own energy stores that sustain you, you are consuming other life be it plant, fungi, animal, etc. You could make the argument that plants aren't sentient and therefore, it is more acceptable to eat them. But how do you know? What defines sentience? Why are only sentient creatures spared the knife? There are studies that show plants feel pain or show signs that they acknowledge something akin to it.

>thinking that being a fat fuck and a basedboy are the only 2 body types
Are you retarded?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Yourofsky

this guy is a popular speaker about veganism, and hes literally banned from the USA and labeled as a terrorist because of his vegan activism. they regularly imprison vegans as terrorists for their activism and them simply recording video of the animal torture

youtube.com/watch?v=XgARuabK_x0

heres another account. there was this one guy who kept suing the FBI asking them to release records on him for being a vegan terrorist and they wouldnt do it, despite him being legally correct. this is a common occurrence, im not making this up

You literally can't sustain a vegan lifestyle without incorporating medicine.
If you think that we should be required to be vegan, not only are you saying that your own species should be REQUIRED to live off of medicine, which also implies that every single person should be required to have a job literally to survive, you are saying that you want to take away a man's right to live outside of society and go live in the woods and live a self sufficient life outside of man made money and shelter. You can't rationalize taking away humans unalienable rights.
Change my mind.

I'll bite, pun intended.
When it's not wild game, the vast majority of the meat I get comes from local farms within a 15 minute drive of my house. I always make sure to tour the farm to make sure the conditions are acceptable because, in Canada at least, terms like 'free range' mean essentially nothing.
I know the food I eat is raised and killed humanely, they aren't dehydrated for days before they're slaughtered the way the would be at factory farms, nor are they fucked up by crazy hormones or inappropriate diets.
Now how much do you know about where your food comes from? How many wild animals are killed by the pesticides that are required to grow the crops you eat?
Plus there's literally nothing wrong with eating eggs, you can get some chickens treat them like pets and eat their period blood without harming a soul, so you have no reason to be a vegetarian.

meat is gud

youtube.com/watch?v=v8d5rDt0Yfc
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryan_Shapiro

ahhh sorry, i finally found it. this is another guy who kept getting legal problems for protesting vegan ideas, and who regularly deals with people like the FBI imprisoning vegans as domestic terrorists. not making any of this up

Are you Gary Yourofsky or are you just some autistic stuck up bitch who spams the board every time she feels insecure?

>There are studies that show plants feel pain or show signs that they acknowledge something akin to it.
Are you talking about this?
newscientist.com/article/mg22429980-400-root-intelligence-plants-can-think-feel-and-learn/?utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_medium=SOC&utm_source=Facebook#link_time=1520418597
Yes, vegans are terrible hypocrites and anthropocentrists. They relate to animals because they can perceive and empathize with cries but they don't care about the silent, chemical despair of plants.

meat and dairy taste good

>Plus there's literally nothing wrong with eating eggs
This cunt is going to go off on you about how you're forcing abortion on the chickens even though the eggs can appear simply because you put mirrors in the coop. She's fucking demented.

>b-but killing animal is evul
You all are such pathetic fucks, okay lets say that it sad that animals suffer, why should I care?

enjoy your dementia and no teeths
nature is built on eternal conflict, plants eat corpses, animals eat plants
my health first

>why should I care
I think this is the part where you stop arguing, because you've already lost. This is why these people sperg out, most of you antivegans are twice as retarded as they are.

Also, people with epilepsy and chronic food allergies cannot live on plants alone. That should be enough for any ethical person to not support illegalizing meat.

But I am vegan. Have been for nearly a decade.

Gonna cry about it vegan?

>plants are intelligent
Yeah, in the same way computers are intelligent. Plants are not sentient, however. Simply being able to react to external stimuli does not imply sentience. Dead bodies react to external stimuli, but that doesn't mean the person is still sentient.

>my health first
wow, i didnt know gurgling mayonnaise was so good for you?

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i'm going to die before my heart kills me

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cause i like a big juicy steak

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Sup Vegchads.
Its comfy to see all the meatcucks seething.

Meat tastes good, original btw

>vegan user is a narcissist
Why are vegans like this?

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>stay salty and b12 deficient
balanced diet is the most healthiest and if you value animal life over yours, then you might have bigger problem than my cholesterol level

just because you value "sentience"(whatever this means) above other biological processes, doesn't mean that I have to value it too. Pain is just a biological process, like photosynthesis. None is intrinsically more valuable than the other

>I think this is the part where you stop arguing, because you've already lost
I simply don't feel empathy for subhuman animal who are bread to be eaten. Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with you feeling bad over eating meat. If I wasn't such a slug I would probably stop eating it only for the health and environmental benefit, but trying to convince people by moral fagging is about as annoying and effective as trying to convert an atheist with treats of hell

i know right? its fucking GREAT. all these non-sequiturs, ad hominids and non-arguments. its fucking GREAT, i genuinely love it

they're all so fucking stupid too, thats the best part about it. its like its the first time in a while that they had to use the logical thinking part of their brain, it sounds like a car that wont start or something, loll

lifehack.org/357486/science-says-vegetarians-are-more-intelligent-and-empathetic
psychologytoday.com/ca/blog/the-scientific-fundamentalist/201005/why-vegetarians-are-more-intelligent-meat-eaters

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Isn't there an argument to be made for the mass-spread oh veganism? Let's take it from your point of view. Say we introduce crops like broccoli, basedbeans, and general legumes tenfold. Isn't your argument deteriorated by the fact that we'll have to deforest thousands of acres to monoculturalize enough land in order to sustain the consistency of a crop like beans? Even further, thousands of small animals such as rabbits, voles, and moles are exterminated via chemicals, and even more pesticide is used to procure your gay ass fucking plants so they don't get eaten by birds and ants. You can't make a moral argument when your side destroys ecosystems consistently, now can you?

Imagine eating what animals eat. You're stealing their food

plants dont have a brain or a nervous system. they cant feel pain or emotions and they cannot suffer, unlike the pigs cows and chickens that gets ruthlessly tortured from the day they are born. that you financially support, no less

Pain requires sentience by definition. First thing on Google, "Sentience is the ability to perceive one's environment, and experience sensations such as pain and suffering, or pleasure and comfort".

If something is not sentient, then it cannot feel pain. Plants are not sentient, meaning they do not feel pain, and merely experience biological reactions.

>youtube.com/watch?v=EFF30jfTubU
>youtube.com/watch?v=1HwBtRlyxPs
>youtube.com/watch?v=PJnPZgLHHWQ
>youtube.com/watch?v=PFnkWjmvMOA
>youtube.com/watch?v=_RnZD-ZIIbc&list=PLHFtFpL-YDT8JihzeEvJ9A4af9PKqfqob

and? it still doesn't make having a brain intrinsically more valuable than having leaves or feeling pain more valuable than making photosynthesis. You are just forcing your moral on others

Aren't those videos made by the ugly man with a shit hairline who thinks that literally looking into the Sun all day long will give him magic powers?

If someone believes that sungazing bestows superpowers, I wouldn't find it hard for them to incorrectly believe that vegan diets are unhealthy.

>Isn't your argument deteriorated by the fact that we'll have to deforest thousands of acres to monoculturalize enough land in order to sustain the consistency of a crop like beans?

no, vegans actually produce the smallest amount of environmental impact, compared to other diets. we feed something like 90% of all plant crops grown to animals. stuff like onions and corn all go into feeding animals, how do you think these animals are fed?

with no animals, we can just that land to grow plant crops for humans, which take up a small small fraction of land and water

>You can't make a moral argument when your side destroys ecosystems consistently, now can you?
yes, it does destroy the environment, but at a small small fraction of what the meat industry does

>could you kill a family of pigs right before they scream loudly for your bacon and ribs?
nah but I could maybe kill a cow. I don't like pork all that much.

As to the rest of what you said, literally don't care, I'm gonna eat meat so fuck you. Once I had 3 times the amount of steak that everybody else had and then I went to sleep and dreamt about eating more steak. my mind is a portal to the meat dimension.

i want to thrive, not survive.

>it still doesn't make having a brain intrinsically more valuable than having leaves or feeling pain more valuable than making photosynthesis
Sure it does. If someone is incapable of feeling pain, then they need no considerations for a pain-free life.

We should avoid hurting things that can feel pain. If something cannot feel pain, then why would we bother to care about not destroying them? I don't feel guilty when I smash a rock, but I do feel guilty if I accidentally step on an animal.

Doesn't matter who made the videos I linked, you can clearly see what long term veganism does to the body + 40+ interviews with ex vegans in playlist.
Veganism works good as short term detoxification and rapid weight loss.

>I don't feel guilty when I smash a rock, but I do feel guilty if I accidentally step on an animal.
that's you and I have nothing to do with your morals, I just don't follow them. I don't think animals are more important than plants or that pain is a biological process more important than other biological processes

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19562864

the world health organization and the american dietetic association both say that a vegan diet is nutritionally adequate for all stages in life, including childhood and pregnancy

btw human milk is VEGAN, you fucking brainlets. vegan is just devoid of animal products. and human milk is devoid of animal products, so its vegan. babies need breast milk, breast milk is vegan

dont go feeding babies soimilk , it will kill them, they need to suck on some vegan titties

Anecdotes is all they are. You can find me a few videos of unhealthy vegans, and I can find you thousands of videos of unhealthy meat-eaters. Anecdotes do not prove anything.

I'm vegan and I'm healthier than I've ever been before, but I'm not going to tout that as evidence, as it is merely an anecdote.

You don't have to not hurt animals. I can't stop you. Just like I can't stop serial killers. It doesn't mean that killing animals is ethical, however. Hurting others is unethical regardless of what you think.

>which take up a small fraction of land and water

statistics? that seems unlikely. new plots would be needed for mass production, and a larger amount of water would need to be spent to sustain said mass production.

>yes it does destroy the environment

Your entire claim is trying to state superiority to meat eating, but it'd likely hurt the environment just as much if we were to switch to pure plant-based diets globally, or even just nationally. Where the fuck would all of the methane-producing cows go? How about the mass production of plantbased foodstuffs, which will in turn, require more factories to open in order to meet the demand? I don't see mass veganism stacking up on a global, much less national scale. You'd get largely the same results as the meat industry if you were to apply the same supplies and demand that meat currently has, not worsening or bettering your situation.

>adequate

key word

Excellent taste my man. Dont forget the ketchup.

>I'm vegan and I'm healthier than I've ever been before
glad it worked out for you

>Hurting others is unethical regardless of what you think.
for you, not for me. You are the one placing "pain" above other biological process, but it doesn't make it a universal truth

I am going to kill you, fry your corpse in bacon grease and cut the long pork into strips to put on burgers which I will serve to my fellow carnivorous chad buddies
Convince me not to, you vegan commie bitch

>why aren't you a vegan?
I enjoy eating other living things, including other animals.
>give me one good argument against veganism, ill wait
Why? I don't give a shit if your way of grouping living things into "food"/"not food" is different from mine. Be vegan if you want. Be a Jain for all I care. Just don't demand others share your dietary preferences.

>hey man, those statistics showing vegans are skinnier and healthier are nice and all
>but in my personal experience ive never met a single fat meat eater in my life, and all the vegans ive met were obese hospital patients who were dying of cancer and lung failure, so you're wrong

dang it, your anecdotal experience sure trumps my statistical evidence showing meat eaters to be fat pigs who have higher rates of heart diseases, alzheimers, dementia, parkingsons, and most other leading diseases that kill people

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>You are the one placing "pain" above other biological process, but it doesn't make it a universal truth
Sure it does. Suffering requires sentience. If something is incapable of sentience, then it is incapable of suffering. If something cannot suffer, then it is not unethical to "harm" it.
How do you come to the conclusion that hurting a plant and hurting a human are equal?

You have to be able to define sentience and demonstrate what that means. The problem is that you are approaching that from a human perception and trying to apply your own perceptions to another organism entirely different than you. What you see as simple reactions to stimuli, you throw out simply because the plant doesn't have a central nervous system or brain. Maybe that isn't the case for this particular type of organism.

You see this in animal self-awareness tests as well. Those tests are defined from a human perspective, such as a mirror test. Many animals will fail this, such as a dog. This doesn't consider that a dog's main sense is actually their sense of smell. A dog may fail a mirror test, but it will recognize its own scent easily.

Say you can't prove sentience in the first place for living organisms very dissimilar to you. Why are only those organisms that meet those criteria spared being eaten/consumed? It's because you value this specific construct that you've created to justify your ethics. This is ultimately a value judgment and nothing more. You can't justify it logically.

>Be vegan if you want. Be a Jain for all I care. Just don't demand others share your dietary preferences.
I murder people. I don't care if you don't murder people. Just don't demand that I stop murdering people.

I don't want to be vegan.

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Keep the good work OP

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false equivalence, you talk as if human and animal life are equivalent

>The problem is that you are approaching that from a human perception and trying to apply your own perceptions to another organism entirely different than you
That's a very good point. Consciousness is ultimately an abstract concept. What makes something conscious? No one knows. Is consciousness even real, objectively? Maybe not. However, it is healthy and productive for us to look at this from a human-centric perspective. What I mean by that is I KNOW I am experiencing my own subjective consciousness. Depending on how I am feeling, I react in different ways. I can recognize those same reactions in other people and animals. If other people and animals react in those ways, then I am left with no choice but to assume they also experience a subjective consciousness. If I am to value my own subjective consciousness, then, to be fair, I should also value the subjective consciousnesses of others.

Is it possible that plants could be sentient? Sure. But we have no evidence they are sentient. We do, however, have a justification for believing animals are sentient. For that reason, it is prudent that we stop killing animals, and instead eat plants. It is the lesser of two evils.

then don't eat onions.

>until every cage is empty
>from the comfort of your home, in an air conditioned room with running water filled with flouride

>you talk as if human and animal life are equivalent
I never said they were. I'm happy to admit that animals and humans are not equivalent.

You said it's okay to hurt animals. You are okay with people who don't hurt animals, but you don't like it when those people request you stop hurting animals.

I said it's okay to kill people. I am okay with people who don't kill people, but I don't like it when those people request I stop killing people.

How does that mean I am equating humans and animals?

>Ha HA! Gotcha!
I murder plants. I don't care if you don't murder plants. Just don't demand that I stop murdering plants.

you are valuing pain above other biological processes, it's YOUR moral code. In mine, it's not unethical to kill/harm another life form if it's to sustain your life. I don't think pain is more important than photosynthesis, for example. Hurting a human is "worse" than hurting a plant only because it's most people moral code, but it is not an universal truth. There are no intrinsic value in anything in this universe.

I like meat and I have no sympathy for animals I don't know or give a shit about.
Yes, I like my dogs and my cat, even the puppers I see on a daily basis on the street, a cow born with a number for the sole purpose of dying? Not so much.
Your turn.

>mfw vegans start spewing their moral bullshit at me

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Yeah right.
I dont even have a home you dumb nigger.

>you are valuing pain above other biological processes
Of course. Wouldn't anyone else? Every animal seeks to avoid pain. Pain is a stressor. It causes our consciousnesses to suffer. Our consciousnesses are what matter to us; not our bodies. I care about my body simply because it enables my consciousness to continue. If you tell me that I could exchange my body for a super strong robot body, I would do so in an instant. Why? Because I care about my consciousness; not my body.

>I don't think pain is more important than photosynthesis, for example
Is that so? So suffering extreme pain every moment of your life is just as bad as having a slightly high blood pressure? Is that what you're saying?

>Hurting a human is "worse" than hurting a plant only because it's most people moral code, but it is not an universal truth. There are no intrinsic value in anything in this universe.
That's my point. It is very important, very healthy, and very productive for us to look at ourselves, recognize what makes us conscious, and respect other forms of life that are also conscious. What reason do we have for living, other than to pursue happiness and the happiness of others?

Well at least you're not half as hypocritical as most vegans by that merit alone.

>How does that mean I am equating humans and animals?
Your argument is irrelevant without the equivalency.

You group plants in "food" and animals (including humans) in "not food", so you mistakenly think you're making a salient point.

To everyone who groups plants and (some) animals in "food" and humans in "not food", you just sound like a retard high on your own farts.

Vegans:
Meat eaters: Lol you triggered hippie retard, I'm gonna eat this bacon right in front of you. Does that make you mad? Libtard DESTROYED

its expensive at least in my country and it would be too much work for my mum, since she cooks for everyone in the house, she would have to take extra time and effort to prepare my vegan meals
also i dont give a shit about animals' suffering so there isnt really a reason for me to go vegan