You must learn to live alone

That's the spirit. People might try to tell you that it can cause you brain damage, but that's only because they're unaccustomed to that way of living. They feel incomplete by themselves, so they rely on others for support, and you can all guess how unreliable that is, not to mention it stunts your growth as an individual.
You complete yourself, user. When you realize that, you'll become stronger than any of those people. After all, their relationships won't last forever.

thanks user for tips, gonna think about that. the worst thing is when emotions hit in and i can't control them. i guess i need to work on it.

their relationship will last forever, she raises his kid that he had with another mom, he gets blackout and abuses her, and she can't even spend 24 hours away from him after he does it. They're psychologically tied up in each other.

I don't disagree though, user. I am stronger for relying on myself than the two of them are combined. Doesn't mean I'm not jealous of the guy for how loyal his female is to him despite the shit he puts her through.

I'm pretty good alone but I'm gonna keep trying to get you anyway

The most important thing about emotions is that they're completely subjective. Different people might react to the same situation differently. Out of this you could conclude that there is no need to have a particular reaction to a particular situation. Try evaluating your emotions as they hit.
But one of them might die, or perhaps they'll get a divorce, which seems likely. Regardless, in the end, separated, they'd be at step zero again, having not learned anything about being an individual.
I doubt you have anything to offer me.

you could make the argument that it's not natural for people to be solitary individuals, and that the natural arrangement is for a male and female individual to come together as a partnership, and that focusing on being an individual comes at the expense of not learning anything about being a partner.

You can learn to be an individual within a relationship too, since you're an individual at your job when your partner isn't around.

That is of course true. I'm not necessarily advocating anti-natalism hehe. But from what you told me, it seems that these individuals are very co-dependent. The fact that it's easier for them to survive like this instead of developing individually, shows that they aren't really growing as neither individuals nor partners. The goal should be to attain such mental liberty that you can easily live in a relationship or outside one without feeling like you lost/gained anything.

we should apply Juche to our personal lives
>It postulates that "man is the master of his destiny", that the Korean masses are to act as the "masters of the revolution and construction" and that by becoming self-reliant and strong a nation can achieve true socialism
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juche

See, I tried to do this. Then I realized that I wasn't getting any better no matter what I did.
I've realized that I'm just mentally fucked, and I can't even maintain the level I'm at anymore. It just gets harder to do the further I sink down.
At this point, I figure I either need outside help or I'm a lost cause, and what little outside help I've gotten (mostly therapists) haven't done much.
What do I even do at this point? My current plan is either to entertain myself until I die or kill myself.

Can you elaborate about your condition a bit? I too supposedly "suffer" from mental issues, but I simply try not to see them as something wrong, something separate, but as just another aspect of who I am.

What do I do for money

yeah i totally agree, either one would be kinda fucked without the other around (though the guy less so because he's living with his mother and 2 half brothers, whereas the girl is from 600 miles away)

I disagree though about your last point. Ideally the relationship you're in is such that losing it is a tremendous loss for you. I'm also concerned on the extreme of being too self-reliant. What if you have trouble finding a partner because there is nowhere for any partner to fit into your life?

That's the lesson of strength. Very similar to what Kreia teaches.

If say, you've achieved such a mental state that you feel complete by yourself, and then you get into a relationship (nothing wrong with that), the kind, the loss of which would be a "tremendous loss" as you put it, doesn't that mean that you've already lost by entering the relationship? Essentially you're offloading a part of responsibility for your completeness on to another person. The way you should view a relationship is as an extra ice cream scoop on an already full cone: it's great to have some extra, but if you were to lose it, that's fine, since you still have a complete cone of ice cream. Regarding finding space for a partner. Well if you have none, then you should be fine without one, if you want one enough, you'll almost definitely find space for them.

>live alone
>pay own bills
>do own laundry and mealprep
>motivate myself to go to gym/be physically active and well
>live well with myself, don't really get restless from being alone anymore
>happy with my direction in life in the short term and projected out to the longterm
>except no gf or building towards a future with a family like I've always wanted

big part of the complete picture of my vision of life is my role as husband and father. Can't do that alone, even if it's possible to do everything else alone.

your own presence is inescapable. you are the only person you can never stop being around.
Might as well cut out all the self pitying and self hate crap and just, at worst, learn to tolerate yourself and your own company.

It's fine to have that as a goal, but you just shouldn't feel like you're missing a part of you're life without it.
Simply tolerating yourself is probably the worst thing you could be doing. You must complete yourself. You must be you. Only then will you have a peaceful world for yourself.

except i am missing out on a part of life. if a wife and children is part of your desired course for life, then being single is missing a piece of that. To convince yourself that it's all okay to have everything but that is just denial and coping.

There will always be something left to desire. That's how humans are wired and there's nothing wrong with that. You'll never have everything you want anyways. Doesn't mean you need to feel incomplete because of it.

I used to know this and then somehow lost it.
Having friends makes it harder honestly, I kind of want to just ditch all of mine.
I never used to care about any of this shit before when I had no friends and I was a hell of a lot better off for it.

>telling me my feelings are invalid
if i convince myself i'm complete when i'm not, then i'll become complacent in a situation i should not be complacent in. If you're complete, then there's nothing else you need to do. Finding my life partner is something that I won't consider myself complete without doing.

But you are complete. Each individual is. It's the only kind of completeness that can stay with you forever. Your loved ones can and will be lost, everything you own can one day disappear, all your accomplishments forgotten. If you don't learn to be complete without them, you'll suffer immensely regardless of whether you achieve your goals or not.

To escape suffering is to escape life. I would rather suffer than not desire or strive. The impermanence of things is immaterial to my life because my life is also impermanent. Achieving your goals, and reaching for higher ones still is man's mode of being. Incompleteness drives meaningful activities. If I lie in bed at 7a.m. feeling complete, then what do I gain from getting up?

Absolutely true. Got out of a long term relationship about a year ago and I love being alone. I have friends but I just don't really trust anyone but myself, that's why I stay so reclusive and I like it that way.

People here have this idea that finding a gf will fix all of their problems. They don't realize that once the honeymoon phase wears off, it's fucking difficult to maintain a healthy relationship. If you continue to have undying love for this girl but are beta, she will leave you, and vice versa if she's super clingy. A girlfriend will not fix your problems you faggots. Your problems are way deeper than tfw no gf.

The upsetting thing is, I've already accepted the fact that most romantic relationships generally do not last. I just want a bf for a while, like I'd be happy with just a taste of romantic love and what it feels like to be loved, held, cherished, fucked in the context of a loving romantic relationship. And yet I'll probably still never have a romantic partner. It fucking sucks.

let me love you, hold you, and cherish you for a while

You would in fact be much more successful in your strife if you learned to let go. I'm not advocating an escape from suffering, I'm simply presenting a choice not to let it bother you. As suffering is a subjective experience to each of us. It can be ignored. You say that the impermanence of things doesn't concern you because your life is too impermanent, yet you refuse to accept letting go of things as if they were in fact a permanent aspect of your life, so which one is it? Remember, you will lose everything you have before you lose your life. What you gain from getting up is just gravy. It's fine to strive for, but not a loss if you can't have it. Pursue your goals pedantically, but don't let loss consume you. It's all up to your rational choice from then on.

I've gone through my life without any sexual or romantic irl contact. The guy I was in love with, chose somebody else, and they are blissfully happy together, and have been for the past 3 years. People talk about getting married and spending the rest of their lives with their SO. He is the closest thing I've ever felt to a romantic soulmate. I was so sure he was the one for me. Someone once said 'it dosn't mean they've found someone better than you, it means they've found someone better for them, and you will too.' Well, I really thought he was the one for me. In fact, I feel we have so much more in common than he and his gf have. How can two people who seem so perfectly fitted for each other be 'wrong'? It doesn't seem fair. I wish I could just experience even a day of what it feels like to date him and be in a romantic relationship with him. I am aware that suffering is inevitable, I am aware that there are many people who have it worse off than me. To be a social and romantic reject, but also be painfully self aware is horrible. I am grateful for every day and for what I have, but I can't help but feel jealousy at those who get to experience the thrill, rush, and warmth that romantic love provides. Knowing that I will most likely never experience that hurts.

>you would be more successful in chasing your desires if you let go of them
you can assert this without proof but i don't have to believe you. I think that if you let go of your desires, then you won't chase them.

>choose to not let it bother you.
if i don't become personally invested in the fulfillment of my own goals, then who else is there to care about the fulfillment of my goals?

>you refuse to let go of your desires as though they were a permanent aspect of your life
my life is impermanent and so are those desires by extension.

>it's not a loss if you can't have it
it is a loss of what my life could have been, a squandering of my potential.

All this buddhist stuff is interesting to think about. My ego as a fragmented perspective of the universe observing itself and all that. Sure, all that I am returns to the universe after my body stops, but in the meantime, I am an ego, and I decide what the game i'm playing is and what the rules are. You're trying to tell me that it doesn't matter what game I play, so that I should change to a game that, by its own rules, I'm already winning, since I'm not winning the one that I am playing, and that it doesn't matter anyway because it's just a game. But it does matter because this game is the only one that I've got, and if I'm already winning at 26 years of age, then I have a lot of years ahead of me to hold the trophy and watch people play the game that I initially set out wanting to play.

I have ghosted my friends once again. I need to learn how stay sane while being alone but I don't know how

i have same problem, stay strong user

>you can assert this without proof but i don't have to believe you. I think that if you let go of your desires, then you won't chase them.
Your desire is fine if it's a clear goal. If it's only something that you feel you need to complete you, then it will actually be harder for you to achieve it. Getting rid of desires as a basis for what drives you forward would turn you into a much more efficient pursuer of your goals, since that seems to be what you want to do. Then you can pursue them out of rational, calculated choice, not simply because you feel incomplete.
>if i don't become personally invested in the fulfillment of my own goals, then who else is there to care about the fulfillment of my goals?
What does this have to do with suffering? I'm simply saying that you can choose how much if at all you suffer when "chasing" a goal. Of course you're the only one to care. That in turn adds to my point of being complete in oneself.
>my life is impermanent and so are those desires by extension.
So again, why treat them as such? Why let unfulfilled desires bother you if they're so fleeting?
>it is a loss of what my life could have been, a squandering of my potential.
You life will always be at a loss no matter how much you achieve. Potential can never be known for sure. If you worry about loss, you'll end up not only suffering mentally, but losing even more of this supposed "potential".

And all of this is really besides the point. If you live like this, you won't be fulfilled either way. The only fulfillment comes from the process itself since that's where 99% of your life will be spent. The game you're playing is without structure, I'm trying to give it one. Why would you want an incomplete game? Just because it's harder? And you talk about fulfillment as something that's to come in the future. But you know very well that's not how it works. You aren't unfulfilled because you haven't achieved this or that goal, you're unfulfilled because you view the game the wrong way. Each step, no matter how small should be an end in on itself.

i'm not unfulfilled you know. I have a challenging job that changes enough to not be stagnant, and i derive pleasure from taking care of myself in most of the day-to-day tasks i complete.

However I can enjoy playing the game, be fulfilled by it, and still be unsatisfied because there's a game above it. Just like in soccer, there's a game out of using footwork to navigate the ball around a defender who is challenging you, but there's a greater game in scoring the most goals, likewise there is the daily game of self-care and going to work, nested within the greater game of raising a family, which, despite how well i'm playing the subgame, I feel like I haven't even put on the right shoes for, let alone started playing.

>Learn to be complete in your own being.

Sounds easier to just kill myself.

>and i derive pleasure from taking care of myself in most of the day-to-day tasks i complete
That's kind of what I'm getting at. So if you're fulfilled by daily tasks like this, why not extend it to all areas of life? If you have something you want to do that's on a higher game level, why not subdivide it into something you can do daily? That way you can start playing regardless of what your current situation is. More importantly, complete fulfillment then comes all the time as it doesn't really matter if you achieve your goal before you die as long as you know you're taking steps in the right direction, no matter how small. Because I'm sure you're aware that even when you raise a family, something else will take its place as your most important desire.
That's the beauty choice.

because talking to strange women hoping they might let themselves become less strange to me over time, then being rejected isn't a fulfilling task, and living life without even trying to get a wife is not fulfilling in the holistic sense. Looking for a lover isn't something that's fulfilling in a day to day sense, it's fulfilling when an attempt results in success and moving to the next round with that individual. It's fulfilling when you have a nice chat with someone you care about and kiss them goodnight.

I would argue that fulfillment exists in a state of making progress through effort. A night of socializing and trying to talk to single women is exerting effort, but when no progress comes of it, then there's no fulfillment, only frustration. I'm not taking steps in the right direction, I'm taking steps that seem to be on a treadmill.

>something else will take its place as your most important desire
i expect that when i have a family, nothing will take a higher place among my desires than to see my family taken care of and happy.

other user
how you manage to find fulfillment? you were always like that? something happened in your life that changed your views?

If you were capable of feeling that 'completeness', you wouldn't feel the need to preach to people like this in the first place. You're just as dependent as anyone else, and no one except for those who are mentally ill in the exact right way is able to 'just not care lmao'.

>don't feel fulfilled?
>just move the goalposts user!

OP's philosophy is the biggest cope.

but OP is right, we are depending on people and our whims way too much, it makes us unfulfilled and lose ourselves, we starts to be afraid of our feelings and thoughts, we need people and stimuli to run away from ourselves

But if you're playing a game, then that shouldn't be the case, should it? Any goal you have in life can be broken down into steps if you try hard enough. When you try and get rejected, you can absolutely view it as a step in the right direction as it serves as learning experience. You can then evaluate what you did wrong/right, what to do next time etc.
>i expect that when i have a family, nothing will take a higher place among my desires than to see my family taken care of and happy.
Well it's still a desire that takes a spot, but I suppose it's better as it's much easier to break down into steps that can be taken daily.
I was always rather apathetic to my surroundings. Nothing really happened to make me this way. I supposedly have some "mental illness", but nothing that was diagnosed.
I do not claim to follow my own ideology perfectly. There's still a lot I have to do, though I'm pretty close. It's a learning experience in a way, I like to have my views challenged, especially since it's getting harder and harder for me to see when I'm being delusional.
Every philosophy is a cope in a way. The point is that feelings such as fulfillment or suffering are completely subjective, and thus should be free for us to manipulate at will. Again if you read what I wrote again, I'm not advocating giving up on your life goals, just restructuring them a bit.

>feelings such as suffering are completely subjective

false, suffering is objective and can be measured. There have been disciplines in history with the objective of maximizing the degree of suffering inflicted onto a subject. Brand yourself with an iron, and see how much you can will away that suffering.

Then it seems like you're the one coping. Are you essentially claiming that the sensation of suffering is always the same to everyone? Do athletes not overcome it when competing? Do people not train themselves to ignore it in order to complete a difficult task?

no, athletes don't train themselves to ignore suffering, they embrace the sacrifice of comfort to achieve their task, and they pay very close attention (ideally) to the signals their bodies send so that they don't injure themselves.

I'm not claiming that everyone experiences it the same, or that the same things cause suffering. I'm claiming that a person suffering is not a matter of opinion or perspective, and that it's not true that simply observing suffering from outside yourself will reveal it to be some illusion.

The other issue is that if I break down "having a wife and kids" into daily tasks that I can feel fulfilled doing every day, and I'm not making progress, are those really the right steps, and if not, am I deceiving myself by claiming fulfillment from them?

>no, athletes don't train themselves to ignore suffering, they embrace the sacrifice of comfort to achieve their task
Isn't that essentially the same thing? Either way, the end result is not letting your feelings to get in the way of what you're doing. And I'm not saying to ignore facts, but suffering is still a subjective experience. Some people will take getting burned with a hot iron better than others regardless of how much their skin breaks apart.

Well if you see that you're not making progress, then you need to evaluate the steps you're taking. There's really not much to it. Evaluation of your steps is a step itself, so you should be able to claim fulfillment still.

it's not suffering if you endure pain for a greater reason. That's why in Auschwitz, they would make a prisoner carry a bag of wet salt across the camp and back. If he was performing useful work, the hardship of the task could be contextualized as fulfillment of a goal, banal as it might be. but the fact that at the end of his hardship was the completion of a full circle, a big zero, was enough to turn the task into a form of torture.

When I make an earnest attempt, and get shot down, I do not make any progress, I do not learn how to better make these attempts, as I have no contextual information regarding why my attempt failed and what it would take for an attempt to succeed. Any evaluation is therefore speculative.

>Some people will take getting burned with a hot iron better than others
this doesn't make suffering subjective. What would make it subjective is if the suffering was an opinion.

But they chose to see it that way. It could be easily contextualized into something like "carrying this bag around is a step ensuring that I survive for a bit longer". People crave structure and are super adept at creating it. Even in the same Auschwitz, they would try to keep a semblance of everyday life as much as possible to keep their sanity and a sense of humanity.
>When I make an earnest attempt, and get shot down, I do not make any progress, I do not learn how to better make these attempts, as I have no contextual information regarding why my attempt failed and what it would take for an attempt to succeed. Any evaluation is therefore speculative.
I don't understand. How come you don't get any contextual information? It almost seems impossible to me. You should be aware of what you did, and how the failure came to be. If not, then take steps to understand it.
>this doesn't make suffering subjective. What would make it subjective is if the suffering was an opinion.
Pain is experienced subjectively. Sure, we can medically examine pain signals, but can't really draw conclusions from it how each person will react. That doesn't make it an opinion.