Why are there so many socialists these days? Has Capitalism really failed us?

Rectionary beliefs from failed policy and cronyism.
>Has Capitalism really failed us
No, but capitalist societies have abandoned the free market. The loudest people proclaiming the benefits of capitalism are the most socialist, they don't want capitalism they beg big daddy government to protect them from the free market.

No one will work for you because you treat employees like shit and don't pay enough? The laws of supply and demand would normally mandate you adapt or die as a company. Instead they get exemptions to immigration laws made exclusively for them. Your company broke the law? No problem, laws don't apply to companies despite being 'people.' Your company was making money through mismanagement and fraud, and it went bankrupt? No problem you get a bailout, but fuck paying medical expenses for normal people though because that is socialism.

Socialism for companies and capitalism for everyone else is the message of the modern "capitalist." No shit people lose faith in a system the 'capitalists' themselves have no faith in.

Everything said in that quote is 100% top-tier next level human civilization. The rich have no reason to hold onto that kind of money. It does nothing for society or civilization as a whole. Capitalism (dog-eat-dog) was never going to work. It was designed by a kike who was born into stolen fortune and the rest is history. It needs to die. There is too much pain in humanity to let this go on. Too many people suffering needlessly. The rich don't need 12-30 cars. The rich don't need 12 houses, with each costing more than the price of 1000 poor people's living spaces. This is gluttony. It needs to die.

They're so fucking naive. Billionaires not Scrooge McDuck; they don't have a swimming pool in which they keep all of their riches in the form of gold coins. They either invest it in the form of bonds or they hoard it in offshore bank accounts, neither of which are taxable. You can't fucking win.

>Has Capitalism really failed us?

Look at the state of everything

Then you make it so every dime stored offshore no longer holds any value back in the states. Give them a small window to transfer the funds back and deal with the taxes. Let them feel 0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% the stresses the poor go through daily.

>What Billionaires really do with their money:
youtube.com/watch?v=f9aM_dT5VMI

They just want that money for themselves in the form of gibs and free services.

Then there should be a law put in place to make all off shore cash reserves worthless back in the states by a certain amount of time (say a month or so). That will force the rich to bring their cash back to the states and at which time be tax'd rightfully. Make them feel 0.00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% the suffering that poor people feel daily.

>suck on my balls, mods.

>you don't need that much money
Who are you to decide what I need and don't need? Who are you to decide that I should only have what I "need"? Piss off. Especially since the average american house in a non shithole area costs upwards of 500k, so yes keeping more than 100k on a 1M income is more than reasonable. Why is it that commies always fail to understand just how fucking difficult it is to make 1M a year? Do you think it's going to be Jeff Bezos, Warren Buffet and George Soros paying those taxes? I can guarantee you they will find a loophole, it will be medium business owners and entrepreneurs who have worked 80 hours a week their entire lives to get there, employing hundreds of people in the process.
My father in law came to aus as a war refugee, he was 11, didn't speak any english and didn't have any family here. He started working on farms when he was 14 and for the next ten years basically lived off of rice and the odd strawberry or apple he managed to eat at the farms when no one was looking. He also lived with like 6 other people in a two bedroom house. Once he had enough money to buy a truck he started doing deliveries for the farmers on the side, he did odd jobs, fixed broken radios and sold them at the market, still worked at farms, did deliveries for restaurants, etc. Whatever he needed to do for money, working upwards of 12 hours a day every single day. Weekends, holidays, he was working every fucking day.
Around 30 he married my mother in law and had my wife, by this time he had enough to buy a fish and chips shop and a deli with a business loan, both of them still working 12+ hours while the grandparents looked after her (did end up fucking her up mentally). He's 57 now and he's at the point where he has two IGAs and only has to check up on the managers. He's making 1.5M a year and pays something like 40% or 50% tax, can't remember.
cont.

Basically half of it just goes to the government. 700k every year. What has the government done to deserve that money? The argument is that they make it possible for you to make that much by providing a safe and fair environment where you don't get stabbed, robbed, shot, or your business destroyed for protection money. The reality is that they do fuckall. He said he gets around 2 or 3 abo incidents every week, basically abos coming in and running off with tobacco or some money they grab from the register. Not only does the police never go after them despite high resolution security footage, but he's also not allowed to do anything about it. He got fined last year for using pepper spray on an abo who tried to rob the store with a baseball bat. You're not allowed to run after them, you're not allowed to touch them, you're not allowed to touch their bag even if you've seen them put something in it, you're not even allowed to fucking stand in front of them and prevent them from leaving the store.
And what does the government do with the money? Do they give it to starving kids? Fuck no they give it through subsidies to Chinese miners and farmers who pollute our land and our rivers with waste water and oil, they use it to import more welfare dependent africans and arabs so they can litter on the streets and get into traffic accidents all the fucking time because traffic rules and waste bins don't exist where they come from and no one takes the time to show them how to be civilised, they give it to methhead white trash and gas huffing abos. They use it to build entire towns, give them to the abos only to have the abos later destroy the whole fucking thing because they don't like living in houses. I'm not making this up, they regularly tear up floorboards for firewood and tear down metal roofing to build little huts out of. And they use it to talk about celebrities and other useless shit on ABC.
cont.

So in short, the actually rich who pull the strings won't pay anything because they not only do they not have an income (capital gains is different), but all their shit is in offshore bank accounts in the Cayman islands or wherever, the people who can't afford to circumvent the tax and end up paying 90% will be the people who worked the equivalent of two full time jobs their whole life to earn their place, and the money you get from the taxes will be wasted because the government is fully corrupt and doesn't give a shit about the environment, culture or the safety of the people. The only thing the government cares about is GDP because it's easily quantifiable and it seems to shut everyone up. "Oh the GDP went up? Nice. Nevermind that a million fucking fish just died in the Darling river. Nevermind that the great barrier reef is going to disappear in our lifetime. Nevermind that the average person basically has to work two lifetimes to be able to afford a family house. Nevermind that UV radiation index now regularly reaches 13 during the day. Nevermind the government curbing our rights to self defence every year to the point where if someone walks up to you and asks for your wallet you're basically not allowed to do anything and are instead urged to just hand it over and go to the police who will just ignore it. The GDP went up, that's good, that means the economy is doing well." They will continue giving it to themselves in the form of subsidies and they will continue plundering and pillaging the land until it's uninhabitable.
Fuck off with supertaxes, don't you think it's a bit suspicious that these "socialist" movements are backed by billionaires through shell companies and "charities"? Taxing the rich won't accomplish shit, publicly hanging the traitors who sold our countries, our land, our heritage and our lives to the highest bidder, ending subsidies, bailouts, handouts, and holding the press accountable will. Maybe. But I wouldn't bet on it.

Most robots are failures. Nobody on this board apart from some fags larping are making over 1m usd per annum.

Industrialization has failed us. Rewind the last 300 years of technology or remain doomed.

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>so yes keeping more than 100k on a 1M income is more
Wrong. Marginal tax rate.
But taxation is theft amiright?

They're talking about a marginal tax rate you brainlet. Why type all that at shit out when you aren't even informed about the issue.

I feel you man but unfortunately for you a lot of people are feeling the Bern right now and some of his supporters are even crazier than Trump's. Some of them have even suggested 100% tax rates and raiding corporate offices. They literally think they're Robin Hood.

You need to find god.

origanwfrsngrekh

>Why are there so many socialists these days?
Housing prices and long term job insecurity is the reason. The only other causal factors might be a shitty education system that makes people think in a outdated capitalist-socailist uni-dimensional dichotomy and incessant consumerist advertising which makes it seem imperative to spend more than one needs.

/thread
inb4 you can't /thread your own post.

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fuck off with your 'god' business.
realise he isnt real and do good because you want to, not because some cunt in the sky said so

You would want to if you actually got to know skycunt god.

Under socialism everyone is poor and you don't own anything. Is that better alternative for you? Certainly not for me.

>REEEEEEEEEE GIVE ME THE MONEY YOU MADE I WANT IT ITS MINE GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME

Leftists are just spoiled children.

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>super high student debt
>impending crisis of automation of labor
>impending crisis of global warming
>wealth hoarded by a tiny majority of billionaires

"Why are there so many socialists?"

Except for the fact that I can prove that a god who claims to be all powerful and all knowing to be impossible to exist.

There's not a god who is all powerful and all knowing.

I get it, but the track record is pretty bad and saying "that wasn't real communism" and shrugging really isn't a good enough reason to give it another shot.

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who do you believe in then?

>workers create wealth
>can we have some?
>REEEEEEEEEEE ITS MINE MINE MINE I EARNED IT REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

standard God I would guess
pretty powerful but I have never seen evidence of omnipotence.

>But taxation is theft amiright?
Nice strawman, discordfaggot
I can almost guarantee you that the vast majority of bernie supporters don't even know what marginal tax rate is and they actually want 90% effective tax. And even that is just a gateway to their eventual dream of an income ceiling where no one can make more than an arbitrary amount.
>unfortunately for you
Let them come. There needs to be a reset. The whole international financial and banking system is fraudulent and is based on infinite growth which isn't possible. This won't be changed by voting for a different cunt every four years or going on marches or whatever. There needs to be a cataclysm, and if the limp wristed decaf skim milk coffee drinking commies want to start it, then so be it. I'm fucken ready cunt, bring it on.

>>workers create wealth
No, idiot. The company, the building, the machines, the contacts, the contracts and the market demand create wealth you fucking moron
>BUT MUH WORKERS
Easily replaced thanks to women entering the workplace and cutting a works worth in half. Thanks leftists!

You ain't worth shit, kid.

Yes I do think its right, they earned it. If people cant make money theyre fucking losers. You can go to hell you filthy commie.

>Why are there so many socialists these days?
because of changes in the American Demographics
Has Capitalism really failed us?
No, the world is more prosperous than ever before

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at least it makes more sense than what other christfags believe.
have a nice day

nobody does one billion times as much work as another person. they did not earn it. they earned a portion of it.

>workers create wealth
Yeah the workers just woke up one day, snapped their fingers and suddenly factories with machines, production lines, trade agreements, contracts, distribution, quality control, marketing, financial planning and legal planning just appeared out of nowhere. They also trained themselves and invented the products they were working on, then those products sold themselves with no previous investment (risk) required, no overhead, no losing money for 5 years until breaking even and turning a profit, no market research, they just went and created wealth. It's only fair that they get to keep all of it. Oh but wait, when their jobs get automated they should still get money for free.

>nice strawman, discordfaggot
Too bad I just love talking with these ancap retards. Still that fucking rant I didn't even bother to read lol

Who build the machines and factories in the first place comrad?

>Who build the machines and factories in the first place
People who work at a different company and have nothing to do with you.
I also like how you ignored every other point he made in regard to trade agreements, contracts, etc etc. You cherry-picked the two you thought you could explain and you still managed to fuck it up, lol

It sure wasn't the same people who later worked in the factories. Or do you think every factory employs bricklayers, crane operators, roofers, welders and plumbers? Why did those builders build the machines and factories? Surely not to use them since they are builders, not factory workers. Did they do it for free? Or did someone pay them? In either case, someone invested money and resources into the building of those factories and machines. And that someone owns them. If a group of builders built them with no pay using their own time and own resources then they own it. If someone with capital paid them to do it with his resources than that person owns it. Either way the only reason anyone would invest money and resources into building a factory is to benefit from it. How do they benefit from it? They pay workers a wage to produce goods in those factories using their machinery and their resources, then they market and sell those goods. Why is this so difficult to understand?

>People who work at a different company
>People who work
>workers
>unite
>Russia anthem intensifies

>the result of basing your political ideals off of memes and half truths

That was check and mate.

Lmao do you honestly think you just won an argument? It was hardly an argument to begin with and you just embarrassed yourself by having absolutely no idea how the production of goods works. You're not a worker and "your" ideals are completely detached from reality.

absolutely catastrophically based not only is this post based but it is infact redpilled

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>ancap retards
On that we can agree. Ancap is honestly brain damage tier.
>I didn't even bother to read
Wow, you sure showed me. Why are you trying to refute what I said if you don't even know what it is?

I just pointed out that you were wrong on that point. Unironically I don't have much stake into how high tax rates should be honestly but baiting ancaps is a fun thing to do as with all an-anything. Sorry friend.

Capital in excess of what one man can use falls idle without Labor.

The amount of Capital one man can use grows greater each day with technological leaps in automation and productivity, but even still it is Labor that creates wealth.

he makes a good point. We should be taxing wealthy kikes and using that to help our fellow countrymen. Still haven't seen a single argument against this.

>Describes a variety of types of labor.
Yes, all of those workers collectively created the wealth that the capitalist shouts MINE! about.

>I like rich people they deserve the money that they have especially the kids who inherited massive wealth

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Inflation is a tax on savings.
Inflation is a subsidy on debt.

Give up the scam of "sustainable growth".

If employers want to pay their employees less each year, then let them try to do it honestly, not by letting inflation devalue the hours of their life.

>they will find a loophole
isn't this exactly part of the problem?

Probably due to the skewed as fuck distribution of wealth we have now in our society.
I wouldn't argue socialism isn't worse, but I could see how it could be attractive to those who have nothing looking up at the few who have everything with envy.

THERE'S NOTHING WE CAN DO ABOUT TAX EVASION
IF WE'RE TOO HARD WITH THE RICH THEY'LL LEAVE THE COUNTRY IS THAT WHAT YOU WANT?

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low effort, low energy and weak bait

Move to Communist China you filthy dog.

a retarded low iq rich kid is very likely to lose all his wealth, especially if his parents have accumulated it through an ongoing business. if he doesn't, then he is smart enough to keep the business going and therefore deserves it

HE HAS MORE MONEY SO HE'S BETTER THAN YOU YOU'RE JUST JEALOUS

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The problem is that the whole system is very complicated and the people at the top are extremely good at baiting different people with different logical fallacies that they can't see through because of the complexity. And these people will all argue with each other over stupid shit, when in fact the solution is a more simple economic and monetary system that's not based around creating money first, loaning it out and THEN trying to put value behind that money. Also holding politicians and bankers accountable so when they are caught intentionally fucking the nation over they actually pay. Currently they have to announce their resignation at best, have to pay the stolen money back at worse, and don't get any sort of punishment at worst which is most of the time. The national australia bank over here just stole what's estimated to be over a hundred million dollars from dead people's accounts. They blatantly and knowingly stole from people. Straight up took the money from someone else, it doesn't get any clearer than this. No one is in jail, no one had to resign, the bogus royal commission basically just said "don't do it again or else!" and that's it. Why wouldn't they try to do it again if there are no consequences to getting caught? They will just keep trying. The solution is obviously to lynch them and televise the lynching.

What I find funny about socialism is how it claims to be for the workers, but as soon as it gets implemented the workers are the most fucked group. Basically slaves under real socialism and heavily taxed in social democracies. Meanwhile rich people get away with everything in both systems.

It's only failed because it's been abused, and people all focus on the wrong things to control. They want full control or none, and both are bad fucking options.
Look at Teddy Roosevelt. He was a staunch environmentalist and was all about trust busting, some things we could use a lot more of today. But he wasn't some limp-wristed faggot that wanted everyone to suck daddy government's dick, hand in their guns, and become herbivore men. On the contrary, he was a war hero and a hunter, and much of his environmentalism was done out of the wish to preserve the environment for other hunters and outdoorsmen to use.
He was also a negotiator, helping to end hostilities between the Japanese and the Russians. If any president had to be the first to serve more than two terms, it should not have been Franklin Roosevelt, but Theodore. Wilson was a war hawk, and his meddling in foreign affairs started us down the slope that has led us to this modern age.
Had Theodore been president at the time, perhaps peace negotiations could have begun, or at least have helped secure a victory for the Central Powers to ensure that such shit like the Sykes-Picot Agreement (a direct cause of Islamic extremism and the existence of the fundamentalist Saudi Arabia) and the League of Nations never occurred, and that a Second World War may never have even happened at all.
Bad politics since 1913 have led to the shitshow of a world we now inhabit, where the only given options are government slavery or corporate slavery.
Never forget that we once could have not been slaves at all.

Do you know what a trust fund is?

Tbh though why -should- george soros and the rest of (((them))) be living like kings because they studied (((finance))) and we didnt?

Its not that it failed us, its a resource distribution system like any other design by men, the problems its that recently its ugly sides are getting more and more frecuent, and its easy to see how it will be a horrible system with the coming of full automation and no strong social policies involved.

Also its getting harder and harder to become a gear in societies machine and mantain a happy face: wageslaving is becoming worse and worse for shittier results.

Its natural people will aim at the middle point between hungry communist shithole and jewish megacorporation dystopia (this is, social democracy).

>a trust fund prevents you from pissing all your money away on shit like jewellery, iphones and expensive holidays

why did both of you purposefully ignore this post ?
or is it just one person samefagging?

why should they even have that option in the first place? why should some rich normie retard get to do whatever the fuck they want until they have finally squandered everything while many people never have anywhere close to the power and chances and opportunities they get for absolutely no merit of their own? why should some people be able to have nearly anything they want, having done nothing and having no intention to be of any benefit to anyone, while many others within the nation have nowhere near the opportunities they have, to be gated away from achieving their optimal capacity for the financial misfortune of their birth compared to others?
real nationalism must be necessarily socialist. that is, social principles are the only means to enact liberal principles, and the only way to give the best from the nation, to the nation.

It actually does literally that. That is the exact point of putting money in a trust. You are so ignorant that you don't know the first thing about managing "real" money and yet you claim to be able to decide when people "deserve" money and when they don't. Fuck you

Because in order for the factory in the example to be profitable to the builder, there have to be customers who can afford his products. Just because you have money does not magically make you qualified to manage the economics of an entire community, and if your bad decisions get people hurt, who picks up the pieces? You'll fight tooth and nail against being legally obligated to contribute to the community that literally sustain you.

The fact is that humans are social creatures with messy needs, not economic abstractions that mindlessly follow the rules of market demands. If humans are imperfect, the markets we create need to be biased to overcome that.

But you're just going to call me a commie because externalizes don't exist until they affect you personally.

If big companies are so greedy and you are the one creating wealth, why don't a bunch of workers unite and create their own business and share the profit? Isn't it simple?

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A pay cap would be better. Just make it so that no-one can be paid over 100k/year, and no bonuses can be over 50k/year.
Higher status jobs could have different benefits such as living in better areas or having more holiday time or having the right to have more than one child or getting to own a colour tv. Maybe some extra food rations, too.

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See: at-will employment.

Laws designed to protect workers who didn't want to join a union, with all the associated dues and obligations.

In reality it effectively outlawed unions in 99% of jobs and now employers can fire you for any reason, at any time.

wanting higher taxes is not the same as being socialist. You americans distort all the terms, holy shit.

They do this, if you know what a kibbutz or a credit union is. But when no alternative eixsts, that's a monopoly and you don't believe those are possible.

Gee whiz, user, that sure sounds like a lot of hard work.

Lmao! I bet you're so brainwashed that sheckelstein didn't even have to pay you to write that. Imagine enjoying licking your bosses boots so much that you actually convince yourself they deserve MORE money! You will never be rich, you will never be taxed more than 25% on your income, you are the type of person a progressive tax code would support, but you're also too retarded to understand that

this. Take the Tedpill

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What peasants owned their land? The land was owned by the local lord and the peasants had to pay him taxes in the form of cash or food, and also give him some free food whenever he wanted to throw a feast for his lord buddies. The peasants would also be forcefully conscripted into the lords armies to fight and die whenever he or the king felt like having another fun game of war between the nobles.
The peasant wasn't taxed on his earnings, so if he did really well then good for him, he keeps the fruit of his labour as long as he pays the tithe for his land, and as long as the lord doesn't spontaneously decide to have him shaken down for extra.

I don't know. Industrialists weren't much different from the aristocracy.

I fail to understand how it affects a business owner. I am not talking about being employed by someone, but asking why don't you just create your own business instead.

You meant cooperatives? I live near a rural area and there are many of these nearby.

>produce the milk and sell to someone that just transports it to a factory that makes the final product and sells to a store
or
>produce the milk and get it to your labor cooperative that either sells it directly to a factory or processes the final product itself and sells to the store, having the farmers being akin to shareholders that receive the dividends according to their production

It exists in many places around the world. You can get your cashier and your cook and your waiter together and start their own restaurant instead of complaining about low pay. Why don't they do so?

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Have you ever thought that the guy at the top of your business is stealing the wealth you generate for him? Is that fair to you? Especially since its all luck where you both are

Contrary to popular belief, the US as a developed nation is not exactly a land of opportunity. Businesses are highly regulated and this makes them extremely expensive. The barrier to entry is very high and any new business owner faces stiff competition from rich fucks with daddy bux and every advantage in life- gifted to them purely by chance.

Do you really think that the shecklebergs of the world would allow the average person to even think of challenging their monopoly? Not when it could potentially impact their bottom line. Never. Especially in an isrealite (((capitalist))) country like the US.

>the peasant owning his land
lol
Based
Feudalism was a mistake
The agricultural revolution was a mistake
The industrial revolution was a mistake

Yeah .Thankfully I have enough capital from my other ventures and connections that I can just hire some poorfag to do it for me. Actually running a business is hard work, butI know investors that are dumber than a box of rocks who make millions posting on instagram and getting power lunches. I can't stress enough how fair and balanced this system is.

70% tax on rich folks wouldn't do anything under our current tax system. Nor would 90%. What needs to happen is poorfags need to pay their fair share. The current tax system is made so idiots actually pay taxes. I haven't paid in net taxes my entire life. So instead of doing this stupid shit of taxing people 90% tax everyone at 20% with no deductions. The rich pay more and poorfags can start pulling their weight.

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The poor don't have enough money to cover taxes. If you want to tax the poor at 20% then you'll have to find some way to lower the cost of living. Find a way to raise the minimum wage WITHOUT every single business immediately increasing all their prices.

Because the world isn't just, and eliminating inheritance will ultimately do more harm than good. If you can't give your kids a good life by building up more wealth than you personally need then you'll stop working sooner.
Some people get lucky and are born beautiful. Some people get lucky and are born wealthy. Most people aren't lucky. I agree that a society where the only way to live a happy life is to be born into wealth is a flawed society, but while we could do a lot better and it has gotten worse over the years, we're not nearly there yet. And socialism/communism would make it a hundred times worse because then everyone is equally poor with little to no ability to ever make it.
>Just because you have money does not magically make you qualified to manage the economics of an entire community
But it certainly does qualify you to be the lawful owner of whatever you've just built. As long as the workers get paid it's your money, and if you fuck it up that's your problem.
Otherwise you bring a valid point, there needs to be regulation and employers need to be forced to fulfill their obligation to the community. But "public ownership" and total wealth redistribution isn't the solution.
Again, the solution is to de-obfuscate the financial and banking system to prevent employers from lowering effective wages away via inflation and rising living costs. This will also make it easier to hold politicians and bankers accountable because theft will actually look like theft and not like "yeah so we raised the debt ceiling and we're subsidising this and that to shekelmaster&co, and uh we're taking up x debt from the imf". The second step is hanging those who betray the people.
You can still have free market, but you have to treat it as a tool that can be used to benefit the people, and not as a god that needs to be worshipped at all cost.
>you're just going to call me a commie
You literally are if you argue that the workers should keep all the profit.

>muh poor dying kids
Asinine normies popping out kids that they can't support are none of my concern and neither are their children.

Capitalism does best for the bottom part of humanity, we've lifted 250.000 people out of Abject poverty every day since the year 2000.

The aim we set for 2015, was reached by 2013.

Poverty's falling radically, since the Soviets are no longer to push socialist ideas onto 3rd world countries, and the nations could introduce free market capitalism and western ideas onto there.

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>x is present in a society where y is present, therefore x is caused by y
You absolute retard. The reason people are sick and dying or whatever is because we have grass growing on the ground combined with the fact that the sky is blue. You can't argue against that, the correlation is obvious. Seeing as there is sky everywhere, we can easily blame all evils and problems on that and be done with it. Easy.