SHADOW FUNCTIONS EDITION
shadow functions are often cited as the unconscious, or functions your type does not prefer to use that arrange themselves in an order that's opposite to yours. for example, an INTP (Ti, Ne, Si, Fe) has an ENTJs (Te, Ni, Se, Fi) shadow functions.
>your type
>how do your unpreferred (shadow) functions manifest?
>RESOURCES FOR TESTING:
sakinorva.net
keys2cognition.com
16personalities.com
Other urls found in this thread:
youtu.be
discord
youtube.com
youtube.com
twitter.com
ESTP
SiTe: i think its useful but kinda boring.
FiNe: i dont think it has much use nor do i pay much attention to it. Ne strikes me as annoying though sometimes
I'm INTP, don't know what kinda job I should get, I still have 8-9 months of unemployement, and I dont want to go waste my time in college or university. More interested in trades these days, even if they arent the jobs I am more naturally comfortable to do. I was considering Wildlife officer but I dont wanna play cops.
>here is my type now let me blogpost
Can we stop this? I hate how MBTI generals have become just another random conversation spot rather than a place to discuss mbti in specific.
Nothing personal towards you btw, you're certainly not the only one doing this but your post reminded me of it.
Man I've been here since the beginning of those threads. I've made the white on black 4x4 meme mbti thing.
I actually don't remember how the threads used to be, it's so different and bland now.
INFJ and INFPs shall inherit the earth together.
How accurate is this, mbtibots?
Weren't they always like this?
It wasn't. Look at your pic, it's all directly related to MBTI, even thought thats Jow Forums and not really applicable to r9k's MBTI threads.
It's an r9k thread though.
this actually makes sense because sometimes i act like a shitty ENTJ when im at my mental limits with someone or something
As I watch this life disappear
Salvation is my only fear
Underneath it all has to end
Echoing sounds of hell never end
don't co-opt INFPs they are actually pure unlike you.
is sam hyde an ENTP or ESTP?
solid ESTP
is understanding how to do something before you do it an Ne or Ni thing?
What is an INTP who doesn't care about math or science supposed to do with their life?
If you're a loser and fit in nowhere else, join this shit:
discord
.gg/spgbeZR
ep
What kind of girls like INFP dudes?
This is a very good image. Do you have thiis for the Perceiving function as well and where is it from?
dead thread dead topic dead mbti
being an INTP does not imply that you love science nor does it imply that youre smart, youre just an ordinary joe for the most part so go play that vidya and smoke that kush
It's okay, but why you posted it so many times?
The difference between Ti and Te is easy: the Ti person has their own set of mental rules and subjective means of evaluation as opposed to Te choosing to follow an external preexisting system and objective means of evaluation.
Ti person goes against Fe systems, claiming that their individual opinions, criticism and universal truths are more important than forcing harmony and shared values. Due to inferior Fe, they carve harmony and acceptance themselves.
Te person goes against Fi expressions, claiming that performance, data, results and actual realities are more important than a person's own's feelings, morals or personal expressions. Due to inferior Fi, they however carve complete freedom of expression and desire respect for their feelings themselves, also may have black-and-white morality.
tl;dr
Ti
>imo your whole life is wrong and you should consider changing literally everything... hey, what you mean I'm being rude and making unnecessary comments? You should thank me I'm trying to help. Why nobody loves me? I'm just telling them the truth
Te
>bud I don't care if you throw a tantrum, your results say you fucking suck at this and you broke rules all over, so fuck off. Why everyone says I am an ass? Can't they see I get offended? Why can't I freely express myself in this society?
How to become a future perceiver prophet,seer clairovant kinda person?
you have to be N at the very least.
Become INTJ/INFJ, remember that your Ni works in function of Se, or basically, you cannot predict shit staying in your home isolated from the world all the time.
mental ones
>Se: tree, grass, puddle, flowers
>Si: this shit looks like things I already saw before, maybe it's a tree?
>Te: fuck nature and fuck trees. Gonna build a city here
>Ti: nature is cool because there are floating numbers in it like a RPG
>Ne: this place looks perfect for an alien invasion!
>Ni: it's a tree producing seeds, so this means there will be more trees here in some years
>Fe: this place looks perfect to hang out with all my 484 friends, look at the sun smiling and the hearts in the sky :DDDDDD
>Fi: this place looks perfect to be alone and useless while thinking about kms all the day long :(((((
Se must not be a function you are using.
There you go, I merged all the pictures for perceiving functions together.
I would recommend you study statistics and probability. Human intuition by itself cannot predict accurately future events. You can use this knowledge to make smarter and more efficient decisions.
>tfw intj without any direction or ambition
This is depressing.
"Ni = ambition" is a meme.
Its more of a Te trait
I still want to know what prompted this identity crisis where Centaur thinks he's a Sensor. Doesn't he just kind of think whatever he wants to, regardless of what any external sources (people, websites, whatever) tell him?
Sounds like Fi or Ti more than S/N functions.
All the positive and negative traits of ni describe me accurately except the ability to see into the future. I can skip some processes mentally to get to the result i want and i might think sometimes about what am i going to do in the future but nothing is concrete. I mostly live in a world of hypotheticals and always appear as a daydreamer who "has lost his way". I was never good at using my body and I often treat it badly by overeating. When i see food it's like an archaic voice is telling me....foood....eat.....consume......
Yeah, I can relate as Ni dom myself.
Even if more than "lost his way" I am more like "looking for a way"
not this
this, objectively
2D ones in my experience friend.
would rather inherit a monthly runescape sub from you
untrue i'm a disgusting anime poster too
Why are Si descriptions always such memes? Always reads like people that don't use it have no memory or don't value feeling secure in life.
Everyone fucking does that just differently. Where are Si descriptions that aren't this shitty?
Is it just me or did you answer your own question there? I want to think of myself as a sensor for ++ fashion points and am looking for objective methods to talk myself out of it before I force it too hard. Also intereseted in how everyone else convinces themselves they aren't a sensor.
Because nobody cares about sensors so anything related to them is rushed and gimped. Anyway you could say the same thing about any function, someone that doesn't use Se at all would be essentially blind deaf and dumb and someone without Ti wouldn't be able to string two words together. I don't know why people freak out about Si in particular being silly because you wouldn't be able to operate without it, It's probably one of the less necassary functions desu.
>It's probably one of the less necassary functions desu.
According to these descriptions, you'd essentially have Alzheimers without it, unable to grasp recurring routines or patterns and basically lack any kind of consciousness about your own wellbeing.
Also if you don't live on the edge 24/7 or can't stumble out of any kind of routine without problems you must be Si according to most sites.
I mean, I honestly think I use it to an extent, but I'm still able to take risks, enjoy novelty, am horrible with routine and order, sometimes have a memory like a rock and I am often criticised for my lack of accuracy, detail, following through systematically and carefulness, despite the fact I have a very careful mindset at times.
And yet I possess some essential Si traits on paper, yet tests always tell me I have it weak. I mean I can understand some people don't want it too. Used incorrectly Si can be a pain in the ass.
I usually suspect myself to be INFP with tert Si, hence why it can bully me so much, but I wouldn't decline the possibility I'm ESFJ or ISFJ either
Function =/= abilities.
You can imagine functions as needs and preferences, so when you are a kid and develop important cognitive skills your functions will often steer you into the direction more related to them.
Now let's talk about Si.
This function is about "subjective" sensory data, or basically the way you personally "felt" things on your own body.
If you are a Si dom, then this means you very highly and naturally(as in, without conscious effort) value this, and will be steered into developing skills and attitudes related to it.
Put those concepts together and what you get is having developed a more detail-oriented memory to remember all your sensory data, having developed a strong sense of "safety" to avoid repeating one or similar negative experiences while making good ones happen again and finally an attachment to concrete things that you can easily trust in.
Good posts, do a very nice job of summarizing some of the issues I have with Si.
>Anyway you could say the same thing about any function
I don't think you can, actually. Si is such a basic element of human cognition that it's not much less silly than saying "You're an ISFJ if you breathe and eat in order to live." Fe, in contrast, is a function that actually does have a great deal of variance. There are people pleasing pushovers who find the idea of hurting others' feelings mortifying, and there are people who don't give a damn and can easily turn others down or hurt them.
>I don't know why people freak out about Si in particular being silly because you wouldn't be able to operate without it
I don't see a problem with it, it's one of the bigger gaping holes in the MBTI theory, so it's fine to pick holes at it.
>I want to think of myself as a sensor for ++ fashion points
Why do you think being a Sensor would give you fashion points?
>Also intereseted in how everyone else convinces themselves they aren't a sensor.
I think I'm about to reach the 2000 character limit. Maybe another time.
INTPs are the only true robots.
The rest are either cyborgs or worse, sensors.
I think that by default a "robot" is a sensor, because abstract N stuff cannot be done by a machine.
ISTP is the actual 100% robot type.
youtube.com
thoughts?
I'm hesitating between ISTP or INTJ
>I'm hesitating between ISTP or INTJ
You're probably ISTP because 3rd function is easiest to notice therefore you might think that you're using it the most.
How do you know the 3rd function you are talking about is Ni and not Fi though?
Yes but my point was that according to the same descriptions without Te you wouldn't be able to add 2 and 2 together and without Fe you'd have some sort of hyper anti social personality disorder where you're incapeable of understanding that other people have feelings. Si doesn't stand out as particularly anomalous in this regard.
Obviously most sites exadurate but I don't see why you'd get a bee in your bonnet over it. Also maybe the reason you think there's more to Si than people say is because you're misattributing aspects of your other functions to it, Ni, Fi, Ti, Fe ad Te also have "careful mindsets". Maybe you're an ISFP mistaking Fi-Ni caution for Si? What are theses essential Si traits you speak of posessing?
Are you saying there isn't varience in the amount of weight people put on their memories? Have you never met somebody that refuses to believe what's in front of them because the book said it would be different? How about somebody that throws away what they already know for the sake of something they just noticed or a new idea they just had? That's the varience in Si usage. Of course literally interpreting Si as "how good you can remember things" is stupid, there's going to be some correlation since people that really value their memories are going to do the best they can to remember things well and people that don't value them as much are more inclined to forget things so I guess that's where the confusion must come from.
I'm talking about the guy, idiot.
So any type without valued Si doesn't value safety and has a shit memory and just run against the same walls over and over again, on top of that just absord all experience without thinking "OK this was negative /positive for me"
>What are theses essential Si traits you speak of posessing?
Woohoo here we go
I have problems with getting out of my stuck in a rut. I feel trapped by my comfort zones. I just hang out lazily, unmotivated and like a sloth all day. I get great ideas about how to break free but keep hanging in my circle of uncomfortable laziness. I also can't get out of physical self-made circles. I'm a compulsive eater and addicted to candy and can't get my ass up to become disciplinary for new living ways for example. I like to be comfortable yet I want to do something with action and meaning.
I'm kind of a pussy at times and often imagine worst case scenarios, but I'm pretty upbeat about it and always know how to react to them. But the angst is still there, sometimes resulting in extreme avoidant actions. But usually it's more related to that I have action impulses but then stop myself midway and say "nah you don't", like going into a locked up building, the most prevelant fear is that I might get caught nothing else, but also more unrealistic things like there might be a crackjunky in there. I have reformed my mindset to compensate and turn most angst moments into powerstruggles so I tend to play dare with myself because what would I be worth to me and others if I couldn't do dangerous things?
I also have those moments where I just think "hey that's just like that" either with literal past pics or substantial.
To be continued let me think of some more
there i did the test am i cool yet
i give up man, i'll never find a girl as an INFP, even if i'm not interested and i just try being friends with them it doesn't work, and i can't play the numbers game cause getting rejected over and over gets to me too much.
i want to take the 2d pill so badly
Not really, it's more complex than this.
What I wanna say is that functions are "motivators", may they be needs or preferences, in the end it's "why" you develop some skills in specific and to what ends.
Ni doms may want to remember sensory data too, but the reason is mostly not about said data itself, but because it has a future implication.
Is ISTJ the ultimate NPC type?
Being Si dominant they are inclined to rely on well-established doctrine and procedures, and blindly put their trust in authority. They seem to be susceptible to falling for appeals to authority as well, perhaps due to the combination of Si and Te. Further, with Fi, they attach their personal identity to their viewpoints and beliefs. Once the ISTJ becomes indoctrinated in their ways and opinions they will never change, and they will defend, to the death, whatever indoctrinated view - no matter how flimsy the reasoning or how convincing the counterargument is. If confronted with evidence that challenges their world view, it is as if that challenge goes in one ear and out the other. It's like they never heard it and revert back to the script they are reading in their mind.
ISTJ is the perfect example of an unthinking caricature of a person. Total NPC race.
>there i did the test
Do the cognitive functions?
I'd say ISTJ is the true robot type. Rule following (Si) and empirical (Te)
Nah.
Ti = inner programming, basically the code itself
Se = gathering objective sensory data, that will be processed by Ti to be understood
"Rule following" a Te trait, but this implies you don't have an inner programming and you are making one yourself based on external rules.
Si needs you to have a subjective way to experience sensory data, but there's no real way a robot can do that without some processing coming from their own code.
Part 2
I'm kinda scared of confrontation, either because I don't want to lose or because I don't want to upset or hurt people.
I can be extremely collected and people admire me for staying calm, often stay calm because of my foresight and know the safest and best route to get through shit without making a mess, but that's merely people focused. I can be very rough in my hands on work.
Ok I actually can't think of more at the moment.
Basically I see my foresight implemented "fear", collectedness, social angst, and laziness/unproductivity as Si manifested.
I also don't feel like I deserve any different function because I suck. I think Si is the worst function when not expertly properly used so I don't feel like I deserve anything better, I'm a huge sucker for selfhate so all my concentration goes on Si since it seems to be the worst aspect of me, >inb4 faggot
These are all signs of poor Si, so there's no way you could be ESFJ or ISFJ. I'd also suggest you to consider the possibility of being a Se user, as opposed to a Ne user, so that you'd have Si as one of your shadow functions
Being a senor gives fashion points because everyone and their dog claims to be an intuitive. Calling myself a sensor would make me look more honest and knowing of mbti. Claiming most N type people are mistyped sensors is a bad look if I turn around and claim to be an INTP and look like some gatekeeping boomer. If I was an ESFP it would be trendy as heck. N types simply aren't cool anymore and everyone says they're one.
Also for the record every funcion is a basic element of human cognition, it's the entire point of cognitive functions that they are. It's in the name after all, you wouldn't be able to cognitively function without them.
Sounds more like unhealthy Se than Si tert desu. You make it sound like you don't do things because you're afraid of the future rather than afraid of leaving your comfort zone. Stop letting your fi-ni bully you into not taking risks. INFPs don't leave their comfort zone because they're happy to not do anything and make up som Ne bullshit to justify it when asked "like what if I tripped on a banana and died on the way to work, then what whould you think dad?" rather than constructing an intricate worst case scenario of things that they think might happen. Comfort eating is what Se does when it's trapped, same as when normies comfort shag or comfort take heroine. Your action imulses sound like Se trying to break free and then your other functions saying "nah you don't".
Everyone knows an actual robot would only have two functions, Si and Ti in equal amounts. Sort of like strapping an INTP to an ISFJ and removing all of the feelings and intuition. Robots don't need a balanced cognitive stack since they don't actually think.
It's okay bud, we all lose an argument to an ISTJ once in a while, don't sweat it
>i think si is the worst function when not used properly
Ni is. An unhealthy Ni-user just goes batshit crazy, completely delusional and unable to deal with reality. Take Hitler and Elliot Rodger as examples
But Ti is subjective logic. Si is more like staying within the bounds of a subroutine.
Those crazy assholes at least died on something. An unhealthy Si dies bored and small
Ti would come from the programmer of the robot. Not the robot itself
>tfw intj
I have hard time understanding what it means to be Ni dom. I feel desire to have a meaning in life and have hard time doing anything when i dont have one.
Si cannot be used by a machine because it relies on having to experience sensory data in a subjective manner, that isn't possible.
They can "simulate" Si via Ti coding, but that's not actually using Si, that's the Ti/Se combo.
A code is subjective logic, because it's processing information in a way that comes from yourself.
As points out, the code comes from a programmer, the code contains the rules a robot is following, those aren't from the outside and aren't actually based on empirical results, though you can argue the programmer can simply program a "this has worked = good, keep doing this" algorithm, that basically simulates Te - but in the end the robot isn't actually able to apply this outside from their own code.
>Being a senor gives fashion points because everyone and their dog claims to be an intuitive.
You are on the internet here, and on Jow Forums in particular. Intuitive types flock to places like this for several reasons. Why would you seriously not expect most people here to be N types?
Society heavily caters toward the sensor as it is, and they don't experience as much of a need to find like-minded individuals as intuitive types do. If S types are online it's usually normie tier stuff that exists at a surface level only. The intuitive type is more likely to turn toward the internet in order to join a particular community of people that many of them have not found in real life. A lot of intuitives don't connect well with sensors, so it's no surprise that they congregate in locations that are relatively sensor free.
The most frustrating part is that their argument isn't even convincing at all, and they just repeat themselves like a broken record, ad infinitum. Arrrrggg
Isn't Si-Ne responsible for not being able to get out of comfort because they imagine some bullshit that could happen and then stay even though they clearly want something different? I read it somewhere but that could be wrong.
I always considered Ne over Ni for me so this is why I guessed Si too tbqh. How do I spot the difference? I know how they work and both sometimes seem plausible
>the code comes from a programmer, the code contains the rules a robot is following
This is the point I'm making. The robot is following someone else's Ti logic without question and not their own.
It's like if a human were to read someone else's step-by-step instructions. By reading and following the instructions without question, they're not using Ti
All functions can potentially fuck you up completely at their unhealtiest.
Ni turns you into what you said.
Ne turns you into a weird lunatic who keeps talking about and attempting impossible things-
Si turns you into an incredibly defensive person that literally cannot experience or accept anything new.
Se turns you into somebody so reckless they would want to experience everything as long they are at very least alive afterwards.
Ti turns you into a robot unable to deal with people.
Te turns you into a corrupted person without morals.
Fi turns you into a complete fucking mess of a person with absolutely 0 order in their lives.
Fe turns you into a complete sheep unable to think for themselves.
>MBTI type is INTJ
>strongest functions are Ti and Ne
What the hell am I?
Computers cannot verify their logic to an external standard though, If you programmed a computer to "think" that 2+2 = 5 then it will be unable to tell if it was actually true or not. Acomputer cannot induct it can only deduce. In reality it is the Te that comes from the programmer telling it what works and what doesn't work, this is one of the main reasons why computers are so scary since you'll never know what sort of whakey conclusions they'll come to through their subjective logic.
I guess you're right about Se, there was me hoping AI would be ISFJ but I guess ISTP makes more sense after all.Who knows what Ni dreams those electric sheep will conjour?
If you WILLINGLY go follow step-by-step instructions from an outside source you are using Te. The robot didn't choose that or judge that the best approach, the robot is doing it because their mind(aka code) says so.
Really good point on proving Ti is the used function by robots.
Okay, but if ISTP is the robot type, does this mean the most human type possible is ENFJ?
Adding to that I'd say my biggest stuck is that I'm just afraid of hurting my parents or getting into a fight with them. I could take 90% more risks if I didn't have the backthought of my parents in me, they are the only authority I truly respect because I only respect authority figures if I know they like me.
Idk if that foresight into the future related to this is rather Si or Ni
>all of this ignorance on what computers are capable of
Sigh. They're not human-level yet, but Deep Learning has enabled computers to do some really amazing things without being deliberately programmed. Creating art that experts are generally unable to tell whether they were created by man or machine, writing rather coherent, lengthy, and sensible news articles based on nothing more than single sentence prompts, etc. No, they don't dream up this stuff 100 percent out of nowhere, but neither do human beings.
I was assuming the discussion was about the most basic type of machine possible, I know that a very advanced computer can easily emulate human behaviour and so emulate functions so much that it wouldn't make sense to say they are ISTP.
the advances that we have seen with chess engines in particular in the past few years has been eye opening on that topic as well. Previously chess engines operated off of a database of millions of games, and simply did calculations based off of those previous games. Google's AlphaZero chess engine is a perfect example. It was never programmed and did indeed genuinely learn the game. It has even discovered some new strategies as well.
what does this actually mean though
Computers can be programmed to perform Inductive reasoning though. They can be programmed to reference objective data. So I guess it depends on how the data is processed.
> If you programmed a computer to "think" that 2+2 = 5 then it will be unable to tell if it was actually true or not.
Is still it Te is you use data that you made to believe is true, but actually isn't? We believe things to be true without first-hand sensory evidence all the time
It means you're INFP by function
Could you describe what "meaning" it is that you seek? How would you describe your sense of purpose in life?
These tests are always difficult to go off of. Could be INFP. Have you read about the cognitive functions and analyzed them in-depth? What do you think about how they relate toward you personally?
If a robot is programmed to only know one algorithm to solve a problem, the robot will do that and if the problem gives an incorrect solution, they won't notice and claim it's correct for them, because there were no errors in the code.
The Te user will not claim something objectively incorrect is correct for them, and instead will adopt inductive reasoning to figure out a way to arrive at the actual correct result.
I know that robots can be made to act like a Te user, but it's more complex than just giving them an array of possible algorithms.
>tfw no infj bf that would love me
read posts from the infjs in this thread and you will see that infjs actually aren't very loving at all
INTPs shouldn't have children
You imply they can talk to a girl in first place.
Sensors shouldn't have children
hey bb I might not be an INFJ but ESTPs are close enough, post your email
You couldn't possibly be more incorrect in that assertion.
Ni works inside your head. Ni users envision, create and idealize by their own, and Ni thoughts only reach the outside world once they are matured. That is why XNXJs are credited with being so good at planning - they are able to build huge schemes before having an opportunity to test them. Ni users are also more likely to hold thightly to their thoughts when compared to Ne users.
Ne is like Se, but abstract. Ne users actively seek for immaterial stimuli, and will direct their energies towards whatever fascinates them at the moment. A Ne user's wet dream would be to spend a whole day talking with someone about subjects that they find interesting, while discussing possibilities and different ideas about it, and I mean lots of possitibilities. Unlike Ni users that stick to an idea and focus on perfecting it, the Ne user wants to consider every possible idea, although he is likely to never put any of them into practice.
tl;dr: Ni gives birth and raises his idea to be the best idea there is, Ne just aimlessly toys with ideas
fucking chads originelli
how has mbti helped you besides putting other people into vague categories? //Sceptic