In capitalism it doesn't matter how hard you compete. By definition a competition must always have losers...

well, yeah? you sure got it but like why are you surprised?

>people on top
>spent years studying to master their craft and then has to compete with equally competent people to keep their job/going higher
>people on bottom
>doesn't need more than 80iq and keeps doing the same shit over and over again and has to compete with aliens
I don't see the problem senpai

literally nothing stopped the people on the bottom from working hard in school and landing a better job than the cottonfields
>m-muh university
bullshit, not only are there hundreds of ways to get scholarships, grants or aids or whatever they want to call them to go to one, and then on top even with your shitty highschool degree you can still land an okay job

if your parents are garbage human beings and let you drop from highschool then it's all their fault, complain to them instead of the state/white people/capitalism

>I have access to higher paying jobs than you because of my skills and abilities.

Imagine actually believing this.

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disprove it?
at least provide an argument?

If we lived in a true "meritocracy" all positions in society would be determined by test scores that anyone could take at any time. Instead we have "capitalism".

You think you're unhappy now, wait until you get tossed in a gulag for even complaining about the current system on Jow Forums and end up waiting in line for 12 hours for a loaf of bread.
I think a little state enforced hardship would do you some good.

but it is determined by test scores anyone can take at any time
nothing stops you from attending highschool at 25 senpai, go pass your fucking degree and with it get the position you want

we should kill all poor people which will provide incentive to automate all the menial jobs

>go pass your fucking degree and with it get the position you want
I wish it were that easy

>if you lose because a more competent person gets a position you were competing for, then society benefits by having a more able person being productive.

Also - if you lose a competition to someone who's better at a particular task than you, you should just...get a job working for that person.

I would make a lot fucking more money working for Bill Gates than I would if I tried to start my own computer company.

>NUH UH if those evil capitalists weren't around *I* would have a multi-billion dollar software company!

Most of you niggers can barely get out of fucking bed. By your own fucking admission.

But that's not how it fucking works. A degree is not equivalent to an occupational aptitude test in any fashion.

>lose a job to some spic bc overqualified
>ask him for job
genius

how is it not that easy?
what's stopping you?

>oh no I have to pass ANOTHER test! we should be able to get anything we want with a single one!
lol just admit you're lazy you faggot

In America you just brainwash the poor population that it's just temporary and they're gonna make it aaaaany minute now. You create the illusion that self-made men are actually not an extraordinary rare thing but something that happens all the time if you only "work hard".

>If we lived in a true "meritocracy" all positions in society would be determined by test scores that anyone could take at any time.

That's idiotic. There are any number of anons on this board who BY THEIR OWN FUCKING ADMISSION are too terrified of the world to leave their fucking bedrooms. It doesn't matter what any of those pathetic weaklings score on a test - none of them are fit to run a fucking donut shop.

You're lazy, you're cowardly, and you can't organize your way out of a paper bag. You know it; we know it. It doesn't matter what you got on your SAT's.

And I say that as someone who dicked around in high school and only got into a top 20 school because of my standardized test scores. Test scores mean *something*, but they're no basis for running an actual society. As the garbage dump that once was China demonstrated for centuries.

Welcome to entrepreneurship. They risk time and lots of money for the chance to be rich on a jet. You can do the same if you had the balls to try it. Look up the term unlimited libaility, a lot of businesses are sole proprietorship and fall under that category. They risk literally everything to make bank.

Since other humans are really fucking bad at determining objectively who might best fit in a position, instead of anything close to true meritocracy we get:
- cronyism
- any number of biases
- sometimes affirmative action clumsily trying to correct these biases
- just plain old incompetence

Tests don't directly correlate with merit. Most white collar jobs actually require long term decision making and the ability to tackle problems that aren't documented.

>he thinks we live in a pure capitalistic society
try taking an economics course sometime faggot

>you can win the lottery too so the system is fair!
go play russian roulette with your dog

Getting a degree, especially a degree that actually makes you stand out, is also cost prohibitive for 90% of the population. You don't charge $200,000 for a test and then say "everyone can take it".

Also liberal arts educations constantly have absolutely nothing to do with actual tasks performed in the work force unless you're studying in a highly specialized field (e.g., programming, medicine).

>people still have choices and can decide who they employ! it shouldn't be a thing!
it's funny how commies never run businesses, you should try it someday and come back to me

>what's stopping you?

>Nothing to put on my CV other than the degree
>Previous employment experience in that field (lack of)
>No social skills to pass interview/practice run
>Not related to anyone who works there
>No social or professional references
>Open positions are sometimes impossible to travel to
Just to name a few

capitalism isn't a zero-sum game you bellend
in fact with perfect competition there is no deadweight loss, unlike state monopoly
also, welfare nets aren't anti-capitalist

I'm not saying it shouldn't work this way, I'm just saying it doesn't work how you think it works. Your understanding of it is retard-level and comes across like you just read Ayn Rand on Sparknotes and think you know how the world works. I really couldn't give less of a fuck which side of the argument is right, but I do hate seeing people spewing their borderline-religious idealizations of things that don't exist.

We do though. Maybe not "purely capitalist", but the means of production are privately owned, and goods are distributed in a market economy for profit. Ergo, we have capitalism. I'm not a socialist btw

Welcome to the wild world of business faggola. Yet it seems you understand how big the risks are so do not the people who succeed deserve their reward? Yo can roll over for companies and firms, but rolling over doesn't make you worth very much.

>Since other humans are really fucking bad at determining objectively who might best fit in a position, instead of anything close to true meritocracy we get

...a system where if you systematically hire the wrong people, you lose all of your assets and go broke.

>NUH UH those other people aren't hiring ME, the total BESTEST, and they didn't go broke yet!

If you can't pass an interview because your socially autistic retard what makes you think you'll pass a test. You realize even programming jobs need some level of social interaction.

>teenagers and neets discuss economic systems and the job environment

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No we don't. We live in a mixed economy. The definition of pure capitalism implies no government intervention at all. Go look at business laws there are tons of them that must be followed to the letter or you end up with a fine worth more than your company or in jail. Not to mention if the USA lived in a pure capitalistic society socialist programs like food stamps and welfare wouldn't exist.

>go to yurop/other
>pass your degree for free
>come back
?

>try to apply to the hundreds of scholarships that will let me get the degree I want
>opt for a cheaper uni instead of trying to go to harvard
>???
>profit
?

>liberal arts education doesn't lead where I want to
then don't pick that field?

>Nothing to put on my CV other than the degree
another test

>Previous employment experience in that field (lack of)
literally your first point, and just another test

>No social skills to pass interview/practice run
another test

>Not related to anyone who works there
not sure what you think this is, if you think you need that to work in a certain field/at some place then you're just retarded
though cronyism is a thing, it doesn't stop you from working anywhere and all it does is pick them instead of you because they're someone they know and thus can trust, you're someone they can't trust yet, logical choice
also, another test

>No social or professional references
literally your first point again

>Open positions are sometimes impossible to travel to
?
>I wanna work in japan but it's too far! wtf capitalism?!
what the fuck do you think communism is going to fix here?
also, sorry to break it to you, but another test
get a driving license and/or live closer to where you want to work, nothing is stopping you once again
>muh money
another test

As someone who's applied to numerous investment banking jobs, I find this amusing.
IB applications make you take literal online skills tests. The applicant pool is filtered before you even get to interview.

The working world is a lot more meritocratic than you'd think.

I think you're getting me mixed up with another user. I don't need anyone to hire me. I'm happy with my modest job.

but it does
you can straw man all you want, it doesn't change anything and I'll wait for you to provide an actual argument to show me how wrong I am

I will consider pulling these things out of my arse to get a job thanks user

>>try to apply to the hundreds of scholarships that will let me get the degree I want
>>opt for a cheaper uni instead of trying to go to harvard
Harvard meets 100% of student need. So do all other top 20 schools; I know a couple people who pay $0 a year to attend Columbia. That's including free room and board, and grants for international travel over breaks.
No offense but if you're racking up $200k in loans you're going to a shit university.

>wtf I have to have experience before getting a higher positioned job?!
>why can't I pull it out of my ass?! fuck capitalism
no problem user, glad I could help you

>The definition of pure capitalism implies no government intervention at all
>Capitalism is when the government doesn't do stuff
Capitalism is a form of socioeconomic organization. It doesnt have a lot to do with how much or how little the government is involved, that's kinda a propagandistic way of looking at economics. Even if this definition was true, the US is still one of the freest economies in the world (something like 75%)

Means of production are on the person. Uh no... The government owns multiple factors of production like your land. They can take your capital with asset forfeiture laws. They also regulate corporations since you have to file with the government to get that status. Then they have multiple regulations on what you can do with your shit. That doesn't include the myriad of laws and regulations on labor.

Communists please leave

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>muh capitalism
I was more concerned about how getting an entry level job isn't as easy as just getting a degree. I appreciate the sentiment and will apply bootstrap pulling

>They can take your capital with asset forfeiture laws.
Asset forfeiture was recently ruled unconstitutional. The US government does not own any means of production.

yeah it's really just a fearmongering argument, that certainly works on a lot of people on this board since the majority are underage

though I will admit that it shouldn't cost this much, on a principle level, but those are private establishments and people should be able to decide what prices the goods/services they provide will be

and I have to precise I'm not even a US citizen, and yet I'm aware of all this shit and you people aren't
just what the fuck are you doing with your lives, you got google, use it

Have you tried reading the definition instead of reddit posts? "An economic and political system in which a country's trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by the state." The state is government, if you have any form of government intervention you break from it. Try taking an ECON 101 or even a BAS 101 class and come back.

Nigga are you retarded? Land is a factor of production the US goverment owns it all. That's why they can displace you for a highway or if you fail to pay property tax they evict you.

>how getting an entry level job isn't as easy as just getting a degree
Except after you get your degree you still need to get an entry level job, but now you also have debt

Hence why most good degrees unlike lesbian dance theory require internship experience. I have a degree in business admin and got a management position right out of college. 90k right out of school thanks to the experience i gained in uni and during my internship. Maybe pick a better degree and a school that isn't just a degree farm.

>Have you tried reading the definition instead of reddit posts?
Have you tried taking your own advice and learning economics? Goods and services are produced and distributed by private industry in a market economy. Just because the US has a role in the economy doesn't mean it's automatically not capitalist. Again, even the US is 75% economically free. Your "definition" of capitalism is completely meaningless, and it's completely detached from how it was used historically and in academia. If we go by your definition, then capitalism has never existed. I'm afraid you aren't just arguing against reddit posts. Your arguing against well established economic theory.

t. Actual econ major

Again, I'm not a socialist. I'm pro-calitalism. But to say the US isn't capitalist is absurd

Alright, man. You don't have to believe in facts in order for them still to be true. The world will go on as it has. Just hope you're not expecting some large windfall from all your "hard work".

>Land is a factor of production the US goverment owns it all.
This is a technicality. Sure, the US gov't has control over land within their borders, but it's all in the form of leasehold estates that citizens and private corporations own indefinitely.

That's good, one of the benefits of college is the networking of it

For an econom major you have piss poor reading comprehension. I said the USA is not a 'pure" capitalistic society. Of course capitalism is a factor in our economy, but it's nothing like reddit tier socialists make it out to be. We have free rider systems, something that wouldn't exist in a pure capitalistic market. Yet even with our capitalism it will bend to the government every time.

>What do we expect the losers to do?

Transition

>own indefiently
until the government decides otherwise. that makes them the owner and nearly every country you deal with will be exactly the same. Piss of china and they close your shop, take all your goods,etc.

idk, just passed the test to work as a bus driver and next up on the plan is tests to become manager or whatever they call them
looks like it works exactly like I expected it to work

but I'm sure the only reason you're not CEO of coca-cola is because of some good old cronyism, I mean come on, who would spew this kinda shit on the internet if it wasn't one hundred percent true amirite

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That's not true. Only like a 3rd of the land in the U.S is designated federal land. Even then it can be bought and sold

>Land is a factor of production the US goverment owns it all.
that's China, not the US

Clearly you are retarded. Don't pay your property tax for a few years and see what happens. That or go talk to anyone that had their homes moved for railways, dams like KY Lake or highway creation. They write you a check and you have to move to matter what. The US and state government own all the land minus the tiny ass reservations for natives.

>I said the USA is not a 'pure" capitalistic society.
In which industries does the American government control the means of production and produce all goods?
Regulation can exist in a pure capitalist society. Socialism is predicated not on regulation but on collective (i.e. government) ownership of industry.
Econ major user is right.

Oh my god, a pure capitalist society has no government intervention its in any econ book. That's why business move to places with less restrictions hence the dip in manufacturing jobs in the USA.

That structure has nothing to do with macroeconomics, though. Just because one company does it that way doesn't mean we live in a merit-based economic system on a broad scale. There's a lot of shit being conflated here. But hey, whatever headcanon you need to spin in order to feel you deserve the life you've got. It's not skin off my back.

>I said the USA is not a 'pure" capitalistic society.
Yeah, and I explained why the definition is completely meaningless. There isn't some gradient between Capitalism and Communism. You can say say we live in a somewhat regulated economy, but that's not what socialism is, contrary to what lolbertarians say. Again, capitalism is a system of production and distribution. Let me put it this way: what would a "purely capitalist" society look like?

If you want to go by this autistic definition you can, but the rest of us aren't going to automatically accept it.

It seems you are still not reading my shit I agree with you most of the time. We are not socialist, we are not purely capitalist hence I said we live in a mixed economy. The idea that most reddit posters assume is capitalism is a myth.

>Just because one company does it that way doesn't mean we live in a merit-based economic system on a broad scale.
as opposed to what?
can you provide an example of a (US/first world) company not running on a merit based system?

>Oh my god, a pure capitalist society has no government intervention its in any econ book.
Lol. I see your econ 101 class hasn't reached the chapter on market failures and externalities yet. Or business cycles, monetary policy, etc.

>That's why business move to places with less restrictions
They move to places with lower wages, commonly Mexico because of NAFTA. Mexico does not have significantly different manufacturing safety standards from the US.

I think about this a lot. I had some potential to be successful but wasted it all and there really isn't much point to my life. I really just want to get a job so I can get out of my parents' house and become a net 0 on society instead of a drain. But I'll never be a net positive. Honestly most people are fucking shit and if there weren't any jobs they'd be fucked. Think about most modern jobs anyway, especially the ones I've been applying to. Customer service? What the fuck even is that? It produces nothing, other than a nice voice on the phone to help you find something and lube you up to buy more cheap products. We've already won. We're already finished. We're like a Minecraft world that's been played for 500 hours and there's nothing left to do so we just fuck around build giant penis statues and make up a fake trading system of stuff we don't even need because we have so much.

>market failures
oh you mean pollution and income inequality. that's free market, but thanks to government regulation we don't bow to the market alone. The goverment steps in and pass regulations to control the market like our recession cycles with fiscal/monetary policy.

>What do we expect the losers to do? Kill themselves?

No, but we do expect the losers to be happy with what little scraps they are given by the winners.

ok how about this can i go down the street and buy a sheet of LSD from a dealer with no government intervention? if you say no we don't live in a pure capitalistic society. they regulate prices and what can be sold that defeats capitalism.

Goverment regulation is anti-free market but it's not anti-capitalist/socialist. A socialist practice would be nationalizing the oil industry, for example, as was done in Norway and Venezuela.
Regulations on pollution aren't anti-capitalist or socialist since they don't involve government ownership of the means of production.

>It seems you are still not reading my shit I agree with you most of the time. We are not socialist, we are not purely capitalist hence I said we live in a mixed economy.

A mixed economy refers to a mix between a free market economy and planned economy. It has nothing to do with capitalism vs socialism. Goods and services are still distributed via a market for profit. I understand what you mean by the fact we have regulation, a welfare state, and taxes. But none of that is contradictory to Capitalism. Taxes and regulations have existed as long as capitalism has existed. The modern welfare state was created in 19th century Germany. If Goods were distributed democratically or planned by the state, then we would no longer have capitalism. Again, this whole definition of "pure capitalism" is meaningless

>they regulate prices and what can be sold that defeats capitalism.
That's anti-free market, not anti-capitalist. Things being illegal doesn't mean you don't have capitalism.
LSD being illegal doesn't equal the government owning the means of producing LSD.

Yet in the united states thanks to laws we have to buy the right to pollute to a certain level. There is an industry on selling your ability to pollute to other companies around you.

But it does own the land you are using to produce the lsd. Hence asset forfeiture then the PD catches you.

>we have to buy the right to pollute to a certain level.
What means of production does the government own? How much does it cost for them to produce one unit of "right to pollute"?
You can't answer these questions because the right to pollute is not a good; it is not produced. Also you wrote in your own post that:
>selling your ability to pollute to other companies around you.
Clearly the government doesn't have sole control, then?

Better than everyone being equally poor and sending anyone with an opposing viewpoint off to a gulag

The US government does not produce LSD. Also, asset forfeiture is unconstitutional.

A *real* example of government control is Systembolaget, the Swedish government monopoly that sells all alcohol over a certain ABV in the whole country. If a similar business operated in the US selling LSD, then the market for LSD would indeed be socialist.

Of course it regulates my nigga. It says hey Co B you can only pollute to this degree or we fine your ass. Yet some how Co B can get some filters on thier stacks and can sell off their amount of pollution to another say Co A for a profit.

It seems you are assuming that I'm anti capitalistic or that i deny capitalism exits. My point has and will always be that capitalism is not the degree that shit posters that assume every capitalist is a multi millionaire out to destroy the world and labor force. The reason i use pure capitalism in definition is because it does not exists anywhere, everyone is a mixed economy. I mean fuck china isnt even pure communist now-a-days.

"The four factors of production are inputs used in various combinations for the production of goods and services to make an economic profit. The factors of production are land, labor, capital, and entrepreneurship."

The US government owns the land it owns a factor of production even if you refuse to admit it. Aslo the unconstitutional on asset forfeiture by police departments is new. That still doesn't stop the government from displacing you for any reason they find fit. They own the land, go ask the natives on reservations about that.

the machine was built, maintained and eventually replaced by someone in his position. The product can cover expenses without siphoning money into boomer sinkholes and distributing purchasing power to the workers more fairly, which makes sense as the administrative role is not one of a particularly unique specialization. Nearly everything else there is determined by people below him.
You dont have to be a commie to realise that this economic system is something that invokes disgust.

>the machine was built, maintained and eventually replaced by someone in his position
So the people who paid for it to be built, and face the consequences of it not turning a profit
>and distributing purchasing power to the workers more fairly
Communists please leave

Capitalism doesn't work because humans aren't perfect and they become greedy

>translation: ABLOO ABLOO if i pay my workers busting their ass an actually fair wage i won't be able to afford my new private jet you fucking goy!

kys cuckservative brainlet

>kys cuckservative brainlet
That isn't a counter argument

Why would you agree to work at a place that doesn't pay you what you think is a fair wage? Why is it the responsibility of the owner of a random company to determine what you need?

This to be honest. The best way to rebel against a system is to refuse to take part in it.

>So the people who paid for it to be built, and face the consequences of it not turning a profit
If there was a failure in the company, the workers would probably be worse off than the "strong and brave" person who started it, yet theres no exponential growth of their wages.
>possibility for gross degenerate materialism is preferable to better wages for the actual backbone of the company
Tell your grandson to stop making avocado toast and help you navigate this website without being a spanner

I cant find work anywhere, it doesnt just grow on trees. They want to not pay me well, then I cant just get another job with a fingersnap

>If there was a failure in the company, the workers would probably be worse off than the "strong and brave" person who started it, yet theres no exponential growth of their wages.
That's not true at all, if someone spends 100,000 getting a business started and it becomes unprofitable they're still on the hook for 100,000. The workers are simply out of a paycheck
>Tell your grandson to stop making avocado toast and help you navigate this website without being a spanner
My grandson won't be a communist like you