How long does linear progression last?

I've been on an LP for 9 weeks

When you can't regularly put weight on the bar anymore
A guy who truly stalls at a 255lbs squat after 3 months and the guy who truly stalls at a 435lbs squat after 6 months have both run linear progression to the intermediate stage, but both had different lengths and ending weights

it lasts as long as you want it to... adding 0.5% to the bar per week is linear progression after all. eric lilliebridge used a mix of linear and traditional western periodization to set world records. i personally like block better though

Eight months and two days

So genetics will determine whether or not I can make that program in 3 months or over a year?

Attached: moot the forsaken.jpg (1630x625, 272K)

I dont understand. What do you meant really? Be more specific

Genetics? Maybe
Childhood muscles and shape? Yes.
People who have done climbing/novice gymnastics or swimming are in far better shape than the general skeleton population.

Another limitation is that you need to wait for joints and whatnot to strengthen from stress. If those are in good condition, progress is faster.

8-12 weeks is the standard as far as I'm aware. How long it lasts depends on your genetics and athletic background like others have mentioned. Diet, sleep and outside stressors play a part as well of course, but that doesn't mean you should get fat to increase the weight on the bar during LP.

>but that doesn't mean you should get fat to increase the weight on the bar during LP.
Why not?

if you are willing to gain like 100kg it can go on for a while

What if you're losing weight?

Because you just end up wasting time having to get all that fat off. You'll be much better off with a slower rate of weight gain, even if that means stalling earlier. You can continue to make gains on an intermediate program.

But you can lose weight while as an intermediate without worrying about making progression workout to workout

It lasts as long as it lasts

Until your next workout

if you start as a skinny skeleton it stops around 70kg bench press.

There is nothing magical about LP that says you have to increase the weight on the bar at all costs. Getting fat in the process to do so is a terrible idea. You're not saving time by doing so when you have to spend a long time to diet down and lose a chunk of that strength and what little muscle mass you built in the process.
Speaking from experience, getting fat on LP is not a good idea and I would not recommend it to anyone. Those few extra kg's on the bar are not worth it.

When did you finish the LP then?

His face had great potential. He's up there with Zuckerberg and other social media founders in the pantheon of people who made the world worse instead of better.

How on earth has Moot made the world worse?

If my bench stalls on SS and squat keeps going should I just keep benching the same weight?

deload by 10% if you fail to get 3x5 three times in a row
after deloading three times, move your pressing over to the texas method

There is a good Russian movie "Dust" (Пыль) about a guy seeing what he could have become. Best depiction of an incel in movies I've ever seen.

Duh, Jow Forums

This, or try the Barbell medicine plug in:

Workout A
Squats per NLP
Bench x 1 @ +5% from last 5 x 3 sets on LP, then take 15% off the bar for 5 reps x 5 sets
Deadlift per NLP
Press x 8 reps x 4 sets @ -12% from previous press 5 x 3 sets on LP

Workout B
Squats per NLP
Press 1 @ +5% from last 5 x 3 sets, then take 15% off the bar for 4 reps x 6 sets
Power Cleans or Rows per NLP
Close grip bench x 8 reps x 4 sets @ -15% from previous bench press 5 x 3 sets on NLP

With respect to progression, the lifter should attempt to add 2.5-5lbs per week on all sets without going above RPE (rate or perceived exertion) 8, which means having approximately 2 reps left in reserve, i.e. you could’ve done another 2 reps before failing.

I did it for over 1 year, though my actual LP was probably closer to 2 months, if that. My results were quite poor, and the advice you're given on the SS forums is deload, eat more and rest more, well that's what I did and while my numbers did increase, it was not by a lot considering how fat I was getting. I also had quite a lot of interruptions due to either getting sick or having minor injuries because I was grinding out set trying to force more weight on the bar when the program clearly didn't work for me anymore.
I put on over 20kg bodyweight while doing the program, and let me tell it wasn't 60% lean body mass like Rip likes to claim.

Pleb

>Implying a novice can judge RPE

Not an argument.

If you've already stalled on the pressing movements you should have a fairly good idea of what RPE 9-10 are. Just use the percentage chart to give you a starting point for RPE 8 and it shouldn't be too hard to get a hang of.

If I wanted to go strength-> bodybuilding do I jump onto a bodybuilding routine right after linear gains end or go to a slightly higher volume routine that is still focused on strength first?

8 months 2 days 6 hours 39 minutes and 12 seconds

It's fine to go directly to a bodybuilding routine. You can do a strength block if you want to focus on strength once in a while.

256 days exactly

Less than a year, moron

How the fuck do you know about something that obscure?
It is indeed about inveldom of a magnitude no one here could even fathom.

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Until you can no longer linearly progress

Read the book.

Also 8-12 weeks. If you throw in advanced novice trickery (which just turns it into HLM) you can squeeze it to 16 weeks.

What if after 12 weeks I can only squat 100kg?

youtube.com/watch?v=HX1u2G7NmD8

You shouldn't be microloading a squat. 5lbs/session - 3 sessions/week =15lbs week = 60lbs a month. If you're 12 weeks in you should've added 180lbs to the bar. Did you start with the empty bar? This was a mistake and you were likely being too conservative unless you are an incredibly small male (or a normal girl).

If you're still moving 100kg without grinding, just keep going. LPs stall out all over the place, so you shouldn't be aiming for specific targets. Eventually the stress you're imparting from the LP isn't enough to drive progress, so you need to start adjusting your programming. There's no shame in moving on from the LP, just so long as you make informed decisions instead of program hopping.
Here are some example changes I'll make when administering the Lp. I'll change monday to a smooth 5x5, and turn Wednesday into a 6x4 Pause Squat, front squat, or tempo squat depending on where you breakdown in the movement. Friday I'll keep to the standard 3x5 and run that out. Congrats you're doing a HLM. Also note that your lifts operate on different schedules, so your press is likely into intermediate programming while your squat is still able to progress on the LP.

After 10 weeks I can squat 95kg x 5, press 40kg x 3 and deadlift 110kg x 3

Why are you doing triples for your deadlift? What is your bodyweight height and age? Have you been microloading your press? The more details the better lad.

Why are you doing triples for your deadlift? What is your bodyweight height and age? Have you been microloading your press? The more details the better lad.

originalo commento2

>triples on your deadlift
I failed 5, same as press
>microloading the press
I wasn't up until 35kg, now I am
>weight
75kg and dropping
>height
5'8 or maybe 5'7 depending on how I feel to measure
>age
20

Eat your groceries and try harder. A 20 year old male who is having to microload a 75lb press is incredibly odd.

Are you intentionally losing weight? If so, why? Do you think you are performing the exercises with a B+ form? Did your deadlift fail on grip? Back extension? How did your press fail? Are you a male or a female? I should've asked this part earlier.

What is your athletic background before you started the LP?

>Are you intentionally losing weight? If so, why?
I'm a manlet. BF% of around 22%. I have basically no visible muscle and trying to get around 70kg before I reevaluate
>Do you think you are performing the exercises with a B+ form?
Aside from my bench which is terrible, I'm pretty sure the form on the rest is good
>Did your deadlift fail on grip?
Yes, my grip is shit
>Back extension
My gyms machine is broken currently
>How did your press fail
I tried to get it up, got half way then couldn't go any more
>male or female
male
>athletic background
jerking off and playing video games

You should not be losing weight. The reason you have no visible muscle is because you have none. Losing weight means you are not going to gain muscle. Stop that now and understand that for around a year you'll be a little pudgier than you want to be. Getting lean first as a natty is an absolute meme. Stay between 20-25% and lift weights.

Are you using double overhand on deadlifts and the grip failed? Use over/under for your working set. This is in the book. I mean did your deadlift fail because you let your back round.

For your press, it's likely a technical failure rather than a muscular failure. The press is the most sensitive to bar path deviations.

Have you read the book?

>You should not be losing weight. The reason you have no visible muscle is because you have none. Losing weight means you are not going to gain muscle. Stop that now and understand that for around a year you'll be a little pudgier than you want to be. Getting lean first as a natty is an absolute meme. Stay between 20-25% and lift weights.
I get what you're saying but pretty much every source I've read before has said the opposite, from proven guys which lifting/nutritional background like Jordan Feigenbaum and Lyle McDonald
>Are you using double overhand on deadlifts and the grip failed?
Yes
>Have you read the book?
SS? About ten times

>95 squat but only 110 DL

Wut

That's about 15% higher, which isn't far from where it should be

Attached: Strength Deadlift vs Squat.png (1161x396, 45K)

3ish months

From a physiological basis, sure, having metabolically active adipose tissue is theoretically detrimental to muscle gain. I understand their point. However, you're only 20, at the tail end of puberty, and are trying to be gain muscle while losing weight. Jordan and Lyle would also say that anabolism and catabolism are net processes. So have fun gaining muscle while on a deficit running yourself to 70kg. The reason people pragmatically recommend being on a steady caloric surplus, is for you to ensure an anabolic environment in a period where you are very sensitive to new stimulus. You're letting the perfect be the enemy of the good, and trying to attain an "ideal" anabolic environment by being in a catabolic one for three months. Real world considerations are "nuanced"
You're going to end up at 70kg, with very little muscle.

Why not switch to over under? This is detailed in the deadlift chapter when your reps start failing on grips.

That's wild. Back when I was starting on SL I remember my squat plateauing at 2pl8 while my 5x DL didnt even start to slow down till 215 lbs. Goddamn my body was shit

*squat plateauing at 1pl8

I'm not trying to gain muscle, I'm trying to lose weight while having a strength base so I'm not starting from scratch when I want to gain weight

>low bar
Power fatties brought down our king

How odd. Have fun doing this.

>how odd
You think it's odd to not want to be fat, when pretty much everyone but you think that fat people should lose weight before trying to gain muscle?

If you're 75kg now at 20 some% Bf, when you get to your goal bf%, you'll be what 64-65kg? You know that you'll also be losing lean mass during your cut. Who wants to be an adult male weighing 64kg? I know men who are this sized and they are often mistaken for young teens, and are very effeminate. This is not the standard goal for most men, so more power to you. It's odd to me given my personal biases.

Again, trustworthy sources disagree with me. Lyly McDonald has said that a male should not even think about bulking before they are 10-12% body fat. Why should I believe you?

bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/general-philosophies-of-muscle-mass-gain.html/

I'm well aware of Lyle's position. I've already made my arguments. I'll post it again.
> I understand their point. However, you're only 20, at the tail end of puberty, and are trying to be gain muscle while losing weight. Jordan and Lyle would also say that anabolism and catabolism are net processes. So have fun gaining muscle while on a deficit running yourself to 70kg. The reason people pragmatically recommend being on a steady caloric surplus, is for you to ensure an anabolic environment in a period where you are very sensitive to new stimulus. You're letting the perfect be the enemy of the good, and trying to attain an "ideal" anabolic environment by being in a catabolic one for three months. Real world considerations are "nuanced"

I'll reword it for the sake of thoroughness. You're going to spend another 2-3 months losing weight while trying to eek out neurological gains to create a more ideal environment for muscle gain. What is your guarantee that you'll still be invested in this process in another 3 months? Do you have the mental fortitude required to continue cutting while seeing virtually no progress in the gym, to create a "lean" body with virtually no muscle mass? The reason people do not practically recommend this, is because it's incredibly demoralizing. Pragmatic coaches expect a 70-85% adherence rate, and dropout rates peak around 4 months in. You use this initial few months to create buy in, which for most people translates to performance in the gym. If you operate on a different mental schema, and think that you'll be happy being funsized while aiming for maintenance performance in the gym more power to you.

>an LP
goddamn

God dammit man

What?

So you don't actually have a real argument backed up by science or facts?

Good troll. Kept me hanging on the hook for a bit. Keep on keeping on twinkfren

Troll? How? Once again you provide no evidence of anything you said, or anything to disprove what I have provided

I feel like you didn't read what I said. I'll outline again and you pitch in where you think I need empirical evidence for.
>I agree with Lyle about metabolically active adipose tissue being a negative after exceeding a critical mass
>I initially assumed you wanted to build muscle (because 99% of people interested in lifting are)
>You by self admission are undermuscled, and fat. Currently at 75kg, running to 70kg. While also running the LP
>To get to your goal of 10-12%, you'll end up around 64-65kg, which is the size of a prepubescent male, or medium sized female.
>being this size, with no muscle mass is demoralizing for a number of cultural reasons, including being mistaken for a child or woman, especially given your height
>as a coach, the beginning year of training is about establishing a series of psychological wins, to garner investment from the trainee so they continue training.
>In other words, a key strategy to winning a game, is to continue to want to play the game
**Spending a significant period of time (you're ~12 weeks in) to get to a point of being very thin with no muscles is (in my opinion) a poor strategy for long term compliance and buy in**
What evidence do I need to support my Opinion as a coach? I also don't need to "disprove" your idea. I'm saying it's bad because it's a poor strategy for compliance, and a waste of time. You're not committing a logical fallacy that can be specifically pointed out. A bad idea isn't necessarily a wrong one. I think we operate on different social schema. I've literally met no (0) adult men would prefer to spend 12 weeks to be 64-65kg with no muscle. Coaching is my full time job. I understand that this is biased. What "science or facts" are you even looking for? A meta analysis of long term success rates for lifting strategies that comports with one of our opinions?
I would be surprised if IRL you would say
>So you don't actually have a real argument backed up by science or facts?

3-4 months

Well, your entire argument is wrong, since I never said I wanted to get down to 10-12%. I plan to get down to around 18%, which hopefully will be around 70kg, a number which you can find in an earlier post. Compliance is not an issue.

cont'd.

I really dislike this oddly prevalent "owning the libs!" "logic bombz!" attitude. Unless you genuinely have autism, you can see where I'm coming from. At no point did I assert that Lyle was mechanistically wrong, nor in standard human conversation do you need a definite fallacy to point out if an idea is of poor quality. What even is there to disprove?
>when pretty much everyone but you think that fat people should lose weight before trying to gain muscle?
This? Sure, an obese trainee who is over 30% bodyfat shouldn't focus on capping off their delts and deal with their obesity. You are 5'7 and weigh 75kg. You aren't "fat" you're just severely undermuscled. Your same bodyfat percentage would likely look fine with another 10kg of muscle. We function on a different value system, and clearly another aesthetic system. I think you're wasting your time, and apologize for calling you a troll. I had a hard time believing anyone would drop the "where are your science and facts!?!?!" for a value system based conversation.

>ince I never said I wanted to get down to 10-12%.
>Again, trustworthy sources disagree with me. Lyly McDonald has said that a male should not even think about bulking before they are 10-12% body fat. Why should I believe you?

Do you disagree with Lyle? Where are your science and facts? Your entire argument is wrong. Why would you not want to do what is Optimal (tm)? Are you not using EVIDENCE?

I do disagree with his point of going down to 10-12%, I don't disagree that a fat person should get fatter
>optimal
I want to do what is healthy. Being fat is not healthy

>Compliance is not an issue.
Are you a robot?

226 days 17 hours 43 minutes and 4 seconds you stupid fucking retard

So you're saying I should get fatter because If I don't I'll just end up quitting?

Why would you disagree with his point? Where are your facts? What fallacy has he committed to?
Why should I believe you? What is your definition of healthy? What is your definition of a fat person? Who said you had to get fatter? Staying at a relatively similar bodyfat% while gaining muscle mass is bad? Why? Is it acutely bad? Is it bad for long term health outcomes? What thresholds are you operating on? Do you have to stay this amount of fat for your entire life?

Denseposter. You aren't reading the arguments genuinely at all. I'm saying that you have a bad strategy for long term compliance. Most coaches would not recommend your strategy, especially to rank novices. You've already robotically stated that compliance is not an issue (congratulations on being the only human for whom this applies) so we can move past compliance.

Keep pressing 40kg and follow the science.

>Most coaches would not recommend your strategy
You can not find a single coach in the world, aside from maybe Rippetoe, who would tell an overweight person to continue getting fatter when weight training

>a 76kg 5'7 man is overweight
You're unhappy with your body because you have no muscle, not because you have too much fat.

Objectively, those are overweight numbers. Smaller people need less weight to be considered overweight.

Isn't that the guy who went insane due to a Simpsons game, on stream?