At what point does Jow Forums think that human life begin?

I'd be more specific and say "when you cut the umbilical cord".

>he didn't develop moral reasoning by 5
what are you even doing my man?

heartbeat

spoilers: darkie babies aren't ever human

This is the only correct and objective answer.

at the second they can talk

I don't give a shit, I'll never have a baby

talk as in able to say sentences? words? What about like "goo goo gaga"

it begins at inception there is no question about that. still im fine with abortion up until 3 months. it is lesser evil for the greater good

I'm still waiting for mine to begin.

Being real though it starts when the sperm breaks into the egg. That's when the whole cooking show starts.

If you disagree, you're suspect.

All arguments pro-abortion just revolve around convenience. Nobody really thinks a fetus isn't life at 3 weeks. 6weeks, whatever.

Nature doesn't care that you don't want a baby. You opened your legs. You took that cum up your chimney.

>Nobody really thinks a fetus isn't life at 3 weeks. 6weeks, whatever.
It's alive but definitely not another human, its just an internal organ at that point. Organs are alive but nobody sees a moral problem with having your appendix removed.

I am a late bloomer I guess lol

This, and only this is the answer. Anything else is a poor attempt to justify infanticide.

when tje existential dread sets in

arbitrary and false

life can exist without physical pain sensations

correct

arbitrary and false

It's not an internal organ. Not even close.

For one thing, it has its own internal organs.

For another, your appendix only belongs to you. It is yours to destroy. It wasn't made by you and another human.

Just because you carry the fetus it is not yours alone to destroy. You made it with another person, so it his fetus, too.

Thirdly, if you leave your appendix in there, it doesn't grow into a baby-sized human and try to voluntarily come out of your body.

Nature has determined a way for the baby to come out of you in a healthy and vital way.

There is literally no need for you to stand in the way of nature.

>life can exist without physical pain sensations
Doesn't necessarily make it a human life. Until it has all human organs, it's not a human. When it's able to feel pain, abortion becomes immoral.

'Abortion' is stopping life from being made.

Shameful how so many whores support it. Just wrap it up or wear a condom.

>>For one thing, it has its own internal organs.
So you wouldn't call your brain an organ? It has it's own "suborgans" too, defined areas that perform different functions and are independent but connected to each other. Same with your heart, liver, and so on. Individual cells have their own organelles also.

>There is literally no need for you to stand in the way of nature.
Humans have been doing that literally since the invention of fire. Every organism with the means to alter its environment to its own advantage does so. "Nature" is not some perfect immutable state that everything except arrogant humans lives in accordance with. It's more like a free market where all the many players invent shit, compete with others, go out of business, change things constantly, etc.

Why aren't we talking about social program for new born child if we are anti abortion

Mine hasn't begun.

At whatever point more than 50% of premature births are viable and survive after birth.

What if they are raped? Or babby is malformed with downs.

>its just an internal organ at that point.
Who do you think you're fooling?

No serious anatomist would say that the brain has its own organs in a way that is meaningfully similar to the way that a fetus has organs.

The only argument you have for abortion is that it might be inconvenient for the pregnant woman to have a baby. That is literally the only argument. It's digusting, because that is a human life.

Men make the life with you. It is not yours to throw away by yourselves.

Whatever miraculous phenomenon that is responsible for life (god, nature, however you define it) also makes the life with you.

Sorry it's inconvenient. Don't get pregnant.

The baby is a baby as soon as the sperm & egg get together. You have zero scientific claims against this. You just want whores to have options.

There's no fooling. You're just asking the wrong question. The problem isn't "when does it contain living cells", the question is "when is it a separate human life from the mother".

Once it has a heart beat.

This is why I'm anti abortion, it's so race traitors and niggers can say metaphorically "fuck you dad.

>> What if they are raped?

So what if they are?

The state of having being raped doesn't make any action more or less acceptable.

Someone somewhere will take the baby once it comes out at the right time. The baby is only in there because it needs its mother so much for survival.

Do you know how many couples there are who can't have children?

Imagine being against the miracle of life.

And then they go out and get abortions which is why leftist die out.

As soon as the sperm gets into the egg.

Your parents could have aborted you.
Would you have support that particular abortion?

I'm for social programs to help children that make sure the money is not abused by the parents to bu frivolous things.

>>Someone somewhere will take the baby once it comes out at the right time.
so why are there huge numbers of unwanted kids waiting for adoption?

When it's able to survive on its own. Heartbeat doesn't mean shit, you can have a heartbeat and still be considered dead. Also, potential to become a person doesn't mean shit. I could potentially go out and murder someone right now but no one in their right mind would consider me a murdered because I COULD become one. Also, no one would ever force you to give up a kidney to save someone because that's your body and it's your choice what to do with it, even if refusing to give up your kidney would kill someone.

Well when the cell can divide scientifically speaking.
Philosophically speaking the Journey of the human, being stored epiginetically. Each human is a part of what made humanity at the end. So there isn't a point, but a higher construct. That defines the whole epoch of what we define as human.

Because adoption agencies are a business.

Get a clue.

What's a good reason to shut down the miracle of life?

I can genetically identify it as human. That's just a very bigoted viewpoint. Not all fetuses are the same.

So if I cum on my pillow I'm killing bilions of half-babies? When the egg meets the sperm for a period you're just creating a bigger mass of cells that THEN go form a baby. After 3 months the child is formed (organs and all) and they just need to grow. If you interrupt the process before the 3 months you're not killing a baby because there's still not a baby to kill, you're stopping a potential baby to be born, as if you cum in a condom.

we aren't so much different from animals, we aren't special or sacred and we treat livestock worse than people we put in Guantanamo, I don't trust any person who believes in the sanctity of human life/is pro-life, I trust them even less than a fat vegan and I wouldn't save them from a burning building even if my safety was guaranteed

Human life begins at conception, that's biology. What's more subjective though, and what OP's question should actually be, is the question of when does a human obtain personhood. Most people in this thread are arguing over that and I don't think they realize it. Personhood is a much trickier subject to quantify as it lacks the clean cut parameters of biology.

>Do you know how many couples there are who can't have children?
FAR less than the people who can afford to adopt/can't afford to raise kids, and these wealthy infertile couples don't want crack babies from Detroit or Baltimore anyway

No because your pillow can't make life.

Egg & Sperm make the baby together. It's the only combination that makes human life. This is why it's sacred. It's not comparable to cheap comments about condoms & pillows - neither of which can make babies.

Everything is a mass of cells. The mass of cells inside her is a LIFE.

It is the natural inference to draw, that it is a life. We only talk like it might not be because there is a debate about 'abortion' (life denial), and there is only a debate because sometimes is can feel inconvenient to a woman to be pregnant.

If we can't come up with a definition better than an arbitrary number of weeks, we have a moral obligation to make the natural, default claim and say that all humans have personhood. Great or small.

>It's the only combination that makes human life.
that's how sexual reproduction in general works dumbfuck, even fish do this

please be a troll, are you actually this retarded?

I don't care much about abortion myself but it being immoral the moment the fetus is able to feel pain is a fair viewpoint, what I mean though is that the lack of an ability to feel physical pain doesn't make something not alive, I don't mean some spiritual bullshit but there are animal species which probably don't feel it and also rare genetic disorders which cause the same

When they stop being parasites. So usually at least 18 years old.

when it starts talking.

Point of my post to get people thinking about how they define personhood and what that means for determining the value of life. Just like you did.

objectively when they become superior in intelligence to animals, circa 3 years old.

everything else is born out of speciesism

Fun fact: you are not technically pregnant until your 2nd/3rd week after having unprotected sex. That is why the morning-after pill should be legal.

[sqrt(pi), 2pi]

I'd say once it's can possible live outside the womb, which I think is somewhere in the second trimester, I think.

At conception.
Or during the first heartbeat or when it can feel pain.

Except your appendix won't grow up to a sentient bean?

obviously it begins at one month. not like it's a fucking alien or something.
why can't they just admit that it's murder? It is but it's good murder. This world is already overpopulated and doesn't need your amerimutt kids in it.

>it begins at inception

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>life
>miracle

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So you justify murdering anyone, say below 5?

inception is a part necessary for human life. Thats where you start growing. You can't live without it.
quit trying to retain your morality gay faggot.

>inception is a part necessary for human life

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You should be able to abort until they're 18 years old.

pepe looks triggered there.

>tfw over 18 and can't get aborted

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>tfw over 18

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basically. My retard mind can't handle being over 13

at your earliest memories in life, so 2 years old probably. because if you lost your life earlier than that you wouldn't have remembered that

>2 years old probably because if you lost your life earlier than that you wouldn't have remembered that

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yeah that, if a baby can say "goo goo gaa gaa" then it's alive

The cutting of the umbilical chord.

At conception
Kind of iffy. If a person had a condition where they couldn't feel pain it would still be bad to kill them.

What if you were born mute?

>born mute

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Once the fetus is aware of the world around it, so I'd say about 20 weeks.

Until then it's basically just a lump of meat with less brain capacity than a lizard and no ability to feel anything.

>Once the fetus is aware of the world around it,

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Being a mass of cell is not a good parameter to define life, there's a lot of stuff made of cells that isn't alive. Have you ever heard of brain death? It's when there isn't enough brain activity to consider the person alive but the body is still healthy, medically the person is considerated dead at that point and you can harvest their organs. In that state they are still a mass of cells, is this still murder to you?

3-4 years post both when they're able to realise they're alive.

>"Most doctors who look after preterm babies would say that they're conscious" says Vivette Glover, a fetal researcher at Imperial College London. One clue is that after around 26 weeks, premature babies seem to fixate on some objects - such as their mother's face - for longer than others, suggesting that they can perceive their environment and judge the relative importance of different things in it. The fetus also seems capable of responding to pain after 24 to 26 weeks.

newscientist.com/article/dn18923-bumpology-my-fetus-is-smarter-than-an-earthworm/

Also no baby has ever been born before week 20 and survived.

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Well yeah its a clump of cells so its alive. Tumors are also a clump of cells that doesn't make them sentient. Babies are barely aware even after birth. Either way all that matters is we are over populated and having a bunch of unwanted kids running around is only going to tax our resources. No abortion expect crime,taxes and mental illness to skyrocket and the welfare state to expand exponentially. In the end this is what matters we must live in the real world. Our society cannot afford to make decisions based on a book written by people that were shitting in the bushes.

>the welfare state to expand exponentially
actually it's already on life support. these people will form troupes like chimpanzees in an urban jungle and fight over fresh water and painkillers mad max style

The world isn't overpopulated. It's Africa and Asia that are overpopulated.

All you faggots saying every single case of abortion is wrong should be aborted now with a fucking bullet to the head. The one and only reason you're saying that is because you're mad that people have sex. The literal only fucking reason and that's so pathetic I cannot even comprehend how fucked your lives must be to come to these conclusions. I want to hear all these wonderful memories you have from the womb which made you decide that the "humans" inside females are alive and conscious. Do you fucking want people to drown their newborn babies in the river like in the old days you fucking mongoloids?

Somewhere between 5-8 years old when they achieve sapience. It can vary, person to person.

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Valid reasons for abortion:
>kid is retarded/disabled
>parents are retarded/disabled

Invalid reasons for abortion:
>because you feel like it

how come robots are so vehemently against abortion when they tell each other to kill themselves, seem to care very little about others -including family- and a lot of them are, or have been, pariahs to their family (NEETs)?
I'm not justifying abortion but it seems very hypocritical to be sanctimonious about abortion when you're a selfish misanthrope

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Objectively the one true answer.

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Reasonable people don't base their entire worldview on themselves. Just because I've fucked up and ruined my own life doesn't mean that every other person on the planet deserves to die.

Definition of life on wikipedia:
>Life is a characteristic that distinguishes physical entities that have biological processes, such as signaling and self-sustaining processes, from those that do not, either because such functions have ceased (they have died), or because they never had such functions and are classified as inanimate

Now ask yourselves: Does fertilized cell count as dead or inanimate?

when it have accumulated enough data to recognise patterns and start remembering stuff.
aka age 1-2