What are your honest thoughts on abortion?

Abortion should be legal on demand at any point up until birth since pregnancy is a form of organ donation and forced organ donation is a major violation of human rights
But personally I would find it reprehensible if someone had an abortion after week 20 or so and it wasn't because of medical issues/fetal defects

I'm fine with it but it's killing a person. You cannot say it isn't. The entire goal is to not have a baby. Just admit it and move on.

The entire charade of acting like the goal isn't to not have a baby and that it can possibly become anything else is so silly.

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>What are your honest thoughts on abortion?
What race is it?

I'm an antinatalist, so they should be mandatory imo

A person implies having consciousness, which a fetus lacks

Dude come on. Stop playing this game. We both know why it's done. What the goal is.

>A person implies having consciousness
That's only the juridical definition. In any case, it is an "individual of the subspecies Homo sapiens sapiens".

A lot of women get abortions because they don't want to be pregnant, not because they don't want a child. There are many conditions that make pregnancy unpleasant to downright life-threatening. If I somehow became pregnant, I would be unable to take medication for my disability and thus unable to have a job or function on a daily basis. Because of this I plan to either not have children or use a surrogate.

You can call a fetus a person all you want, but that doesn't make it conscious or sapient. It's perfectly legal to kill people who don't have a consciousness (e.g. taking brain-dead relatives off life support.)

Honestly, I think its disgusting. I hate it. I fucking hate having to lie about liking it because all my friends are ok with it.

I dont think it should be as easy to get as it is right now in my country. I dont even think it should be available for just about anyone.
Rape victims should get it for free, naturally, and obviously if the mother is in danger of dying, but otherwise - it's a conceived life, and life should be sacred.
You can't even argue with this with "it's not a human being" argument. It has a unique DNA from the moment of conception. It's alive. Every developed country counts killing a pregnant woman as double homicide.

I do realise though that the culture of easy "get out of jail" cards is too engrained into our society now, and convincing the public that it needs to be more responsible would take an ungodly amount of work.

cringe
b&r
fuck you jannies how bout you suck the content out of my prolapsed anus

I think it should be prohibited.
Gary S. Becker show that people tend to change their behavior to gain economical advantages, also in a way of changing their moral system and from this i believe that abortion is simply rationalized by leftism to:
1) avoid health care expanses(ofc government took takes on that behalf ie. in most countries of Europe)
2) avoid commitment by mother etc.
Government is bitch, its in first place take your takes to provide you with some service, and then it limit your choices ie. it could take taxes for spendings on cancer treatment, and when you forget that you paying them, government enact law forbidding smoking ofc. without taxation reduction.
But that what i think about leftists argument.

Abortion imo should be illgeal bc.
1) i feel so, the same way i feel about allowing murder, it doesn't have to have any logic in this, that's how my brain work
2) i think that abortion is first step to devaluation of human life, and i am sure that if we allow this in the future there will be cases of euthanasia for old unproductive people and of course leftism provide as with some wholesome heart warming rationalizations

Hoe, if your not responsible enough to keep your legs closed what makes you think your responsible enough to end someones life?

It's based because it disproportionately affects minorities and anything that culls minority populations is good in my books.

>If I somehow became pregnant
why do people so often feel the need to larp as femoids on this website?

What is the "game," dumbass? It's just a statement of fact.

Fetuses aren't people. You can't define personhood as anything less than having the full consciousness of a human being, or you enter murky philosophical waters. Defining an appendage, a clump of cells, or an entirely dependent organism without consciousness as a "person" has horrifying implications.

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>Every developed country counts killing a pregnant woman as double homicide.
These were laws put in place in the mid-2000s and 2010s in order to retroactively justify restrictions on legal abortions.
ncsl.org/research/health/fetal-homicide-state-laws.aspx

Why are you blaming "leftism"? It's a matter of muh freedumz aka libertarians (capitalist or socialist) will tend to support it.

This, the whole "fetus=life" argument doesn't hold up because there's an important distinction between life and personhood.

I'm okay with it, most women who get abortions aren't fit to be mothers, and it's not like anything of value was lost. Sorry christcucks and moralfags, but not all life is valuable

>Defining an appendage, a clump of cells, or an entirely dependent organism without consciousness as a "person" has horrifying implications.
It's so interesting when people write out bold statements like those without any justification at all and think they're being smart.

>appendage, a clump of cells, or an entirely dependent organism
Still, it is a human being, since it's a single organism and has a unique human DNA.

I've never really understood why it's always been an "important" issue that gets brought up every election cycle. Never really had a strong opinion on it.

In early stages I am generally for it, especially in instances of rape. Once the baby has developed a bit though, I am against it except if there is risk to the mother. I do not believe it should be covered by health insurance or any government coverage as well. I don't want people with no self-control taking advantage of that system. If you consider the age demographic issues that have been created by the giant welfare state existing in every Western country now and the declining birth rates seen there as well, there is also a utilitarian stance you could take to being pro-life in addition to the moral stance. Depends if you value the freedom for a woman to make a selfish decision about her own body and what you define as a life/murder.

>a single organism and has a unique human DNA.
Is a parasitic twin without a brain a person?
Is a cancerous tumor a person?
Is a fetus that has defects incompatible with life a person?
Is the body of a brain-dead person a person?

These are all questions to consider.

My thought is if you would have an abortion you should get your tubes tied. Sterilize yourself instead of hurting an innocent baby

I think anyone who thinks contraceptives is bad is a fucking moron
I think that disgusting roastie whore who vlogged about having an abortion and enjoying it is repulsive
I think that rape does not change anything at all. weather it was rape or not does not change weather it is ok

at the same time I feel people are too scared to call it a baby even when it is one, they try to refer to it as a clump of cells or otherwise dumb it down to make it seem insignificant. I'm not sure at what point I'd say it's wrong to abort a fetus but either way I'm of the opinion that killing human beings is ok.
this makes more sense in a weird way, I wouldn't call it self-defense but if you're doing it to protect your life then it's fine
stupid shit like this is stupid because if you ask me the bar for being human is so fucking low

>>a single organism and has a unique human DNA.
>Is a parasitic twin without a brain a person?
>Is a cancerous tumor a person?
>Is a fetus that has defects incompatible with life a person?
>Is the body of a brain-dead person a person?
>These are all questions to consider.

Is jew really a person? Is invalid really a person? Is manlet really a person? Is down really a person? Is idiot really a person? If Its destination is to die then be it, but we shouldn't participate in the process.

For tumor is simply definition difficulties, Lets say that, we mean organism that was created by conception or what not.

>Is a parasitic twin without a brain a person?
>Is a cancerous tumor a person?
Again, "single organism".
>Is a fetus that has defects incompatible with life a person?
It's a human being that will inevitably die at most 1 or 2 years after birth, nothing especially interesting about that
>Is the body of a brain-dead person a person?
Now that's a more interesting question. First because "brain dead" is a very discretionary thing, that is, neurologist thought about science things and came up with a proccedure any physician can use to decide if he wants to consider that person dead or not -- but of course it's preferable that such a decision is taken by a neurologist and not a GP -- the point is that there isn't an objective, unquestionable scientific truth to the statement that a person is brain dead. Of course if doctors find someone to be brain dead, it's very highly unlikely that they end up being wrong and the person actually has a chance of recovering, but still it's an important thing to ponder. Second, the organs of a human being in that state are in perfect conditions to be donated, and that's another important thing to consider. Finally, there's an important distinction between a fetus and a "braindead body": a fetus has potential, while a person declared braindead is more akin to the fetus with a genetic condition incompatible with life, for it'll never become a regular human being again.

lets the whores abort there retard babies we have to many fucktards on this earth regardless

It's even more interesting when someone makes a statement like "a single organism with unique human DNA is a person."

This is a ridiculous statement, frankly. Do cancer cells, which have "unique" human DNA on account of their mutations, count as people? On the other hand, are sapient alien races not "people?" Just dumb all around.

What do you qualify as a "single organism" then? A cancerous tumor can be separated from the body and grown in a culture. It's clearly a single organism then, because it's growing, metabolizing, and responding to stimuli totally independently of its original host. When does it become a separate organism? When it's separated?

Think about it this way, you chose not to use a condom and now the girl is pregnant. Now that you fucked up you kill the baby before it has a chance to experience life. If the baby would be stillborn thats different but thats just my opinion

There's no reason to ban abortion except to specifically inconvenience women (and men) who want access to it. Anti-woman stances tend to literally be some Judeo-Christian retardation about how life is sacred when it's not. Everyone and every thing is expendable.

How does it benefit my life to see myself as expendable and not sacred? It benefits me to see myself as sacred for simply being alive and human.

I'm fine with it, it's better for something to not experience life than to suffer with a life without love in its upbringing phase

Cancer cells do not have "unique human DNA", unique DNA just means DNA that creates another individual of that species, and not, say, the DNA of your heart muscle cells compared to the DNA of one of your neurones. Cancer cells simply have a defect in the sequence or in the telomeres (tips of the the cromossomes) that makes them skip interphase (that is, they just keep multiplying over and over).

>a single organism with unique human DNA is a person
I was careful enough to not use the word "person", considering the difficulty in getting everyone to agree on what that means in ALL contexts.

>It's clearly a single organism then, because it's growing, metabolizing, and responding to stimuli totally independently of its original host
>metabolism
That's the keyword here, and it's pretty difficult to consider a tumour a single organism simply for the fact that the metabolism is too specific. It's metabolism is inherited from it's former functions as a regular tissue, and doesn't account for all the functions that should encompass a living organism -- it's still just a tissue metabolism, even if you separate it from the original organism. Thus it's more reasonable to consider it tissue, much like you'd call some muscle tissue growing in culture still just tissue,

yeah I forgot to quote

You know what makes me mad? The fact that extraverted normoids can have happy lives with friends and gfs EVEN GROWING UP WITH UNLOVING PARENTS, just see all these ghetto normies born out of single moms and shit.

If you're not trying to get pregnant and starting a family, simply don't have sex and there wouldn't be a thing even called abortion and no discussion around it
This whole topic is based on wahmen wanting to slut around and chad enabling it

Sex feels good and makes people feel closer, among a multitudinous array of other benefits. A child is not a necessary result of sex. By your logic, should everyone stop driving to prevent car accidents?

Absolute personal freedom is too ingrained in western culture now for you too simply ignore it, though. It sucks but that's how things are now. Thank you for exporting that shit to the whole world, btw.

>By your logic, should everyone stop driving to prevent car accidents?
People who get into car accidents will invariably face the consequences though, even if they are in the right and have insurance, they'll still waste their time and money and risk their lives. Abortion is all about not facing the consequences of your actions.
>inb4 muh getting an abortion is htough for the slut

I think its great that roasties and normies end up having less kids, but i also hate how they can't be honest whit themselves and accept they are killing human beings.
I absolutely love how it proves that anyone that doesn't have a minimum of social power will be killed by normies without a shred of guilt.
Overall abortion is the ultimate redpill on how life eventually breeds out the weak, one way or another

>I think its great that roasties and normies end up having less kids
that doesn't make sense though, normies will always be the absolute majority, so wanting them to suffer rather than to not exist would be more reasonable

I can't imagine being so insecure that I need to think of myself as special to feel good about myself and my decisions. Ignorance is bliss, ofc.

killing a person in self defense is different than stalking someone and killing them in cold blood. killing someone in war is different than a policeman killing an unarmed citizen. a drunk driver who runs someone over is different than a little boy killing his sibling by accidentally pushing them down the stairs. [assuming you can first prove that a fetus should be considered a person] it is reductive to just say abortion is killing a person.. i mean what's your point? why is killing a person with an abortion morally wrong?

also, according to oxford dictionary, a person is "A human being regarded as an individual." how is a fetus, which is entirely dependent on the specific environment of its mothers womb, an individual?

just like opponents have to use euphemisms to write a "heartbeat bill"

I don't see how it benefits your life to view yourself as sacred. Why labor under the delusion? Recognizing that you're expendable or at least very insignificant in the grand scheme of things is liberating. Once you realize the universe does not give a shit about you, you're free to ignore its opinion and make meaning for yourself.

Abortion is good because humans are bad

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the person who gets an abortion is facing the consequences by getting an abortion. i don't really understand where you're going with your argument.

how do you just determine yourself as sacred? wouldn't it benefit you more by being rational and seeing things through a realistic light so you could react to them in a realistic way to make your life better?

I dont hate the mayority, i hate the current mayority, comprised of baby killers and enablers.
After a few generations poof, only enablers and non baby killers remain.
I dont hate normies just cause they are normies, i hate them based on how they act

When I had the mentality the world didn't give a shit about me, I just became a long term NEET and didn't want to do anything at all because the world was meaningless.

>think about it this way. you smoke cigarettes and now you have lung cancer. now that you fucked up you get chemo to kill the cancer cells before they have a chance to grow and destroy your body.

If I smash an egg did I stomp on a baby chick?

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Because it makes me have higher standards for myself and the world. I don't allow others to treat me badly because I view myself as sacred. I don't have time for the world and its ills.

so you just arbitrarily decided your life was sacred? that's the only way to make your life not meaningless? seems kinda random and meaningless you were able to arrive at such a conclusion.

If it was fertilized you did kill a life

More abortions means less humans. Pro lifers are normie cunts
Abortions should be free. And come with mandatory sterilization packaged with.

>how is a fetus, which is entirely dependent on the specific environment of its mothers womb, an individual?
also from Oxford
>individual
>adj
>Single; separate.
>Characteristic of a particular person or thing.
>Having a striking or unusual character; original.
>noun
>A single human being as distinct from a group
>A single member of a class
boi, what could it be that makes a living thing different of others?

but aren't there a thousand reasons to not let people treat you badly besides "i'm sacred"? how have you determined that you are actually sacred?

Consequences of car accident -> life risk, waste of money
Consequence of SEX -> pregnancy
Sorry, I forgot to make it brainlet friendly

If I'm just nothing and my life means nothing why not be NEET and do nothing? If I don't mean anything why reproduce? Why work? Why do anything not fun?

I also think if more people thought life was sacred then people would have better lives. Why do people in China make sneakers for dollars a day? Because they don't view themselves as sacred. If they did they wouldn't accept those conditions.

Why? If life isn't sacred then everything means nothing and you can treat anyone how you want because morals are arbitrary. That's where it leads you see.

how is it distinct from its mother if removing it from its mother prevents it from existing?

>seems kinda random and meaningless you were able to arrive at such a conclusion.
>you you you
I get you're a w*st*rn*r, but do you even culture and how it affects individuals?

Abortion should only be an option if its retarded, disabled or going to kill the mum. The government should mandate a certain level of standards you need to achieve to have kids. I'm sick of benefit beggars.

1. get in car accident
2. repair car and pay hospital bills with money

1. get pregnant
2. end pregnancy by getting abortion with money

so what are you trying to prove here?

Abortion isn't wrong because you're killing a person. It's wrong because you're killing potential. Also it's probably one of the most selfish thing a person can do. At least in 99% of the cases.
The fact that it's so hotly debated is grounds that it is understood that it isn't the most moral thing a person can do. But people by their nature are amoral anyways.

I agree with life and shit, but not China. They USED to make shit a dollar a day, so that in the future they could be making shit for actual money while their economy grows leaps and bounds, instead of getting enslaved by foreign corporations like my country and other """developing""" nations are. It's all about personal sacrifice, something westerners and us westernized people forgot.

>If I'm just nothing and my life means nothing why not be NEET and do nothing? If I don't mean anything why reproduce? Why work? Why do anything not fun?

not being sacred doesn't mean your life is meaningless or that you are nothing. there are ways to find meaning in life that are not connected to religion.

>I also think if more people thought life was sacred then people would have better lives. Why do people in China make sneakers for dollars a day? Because they don't view themselves as sacred. If they did they wouldn't accept those conditions.

you have a very poor understanding of economics. people in china make sneakers for dollars a day because it gives them a better life than being a peasant farmer or some other lower paying job, which would likely be their only other opportunity. they can't just snap their fingers and be in america where they can get paid 1st world wages.

that's a narrow way to look at things. why does it have to be either or? you can have a meaningful life without invoking religion. you can live morally without invoking religion. think.

>1. get pregnant
>2. end pregnancy by getting abortion with money
You say abortion is a consequence of pregnancy and I say abortion is a mean of avoiding the original consequence of sex which is pregnancy and the original consequence of pregnancy which is child, like the original consequence of car accident is waste of money and stuff and running away if you're in the wrong would be similar to getting an abortion in that context. That's the argument, and I'm not feeling like adding anything to it because this discussion is going nowhere.

yeah we aren't in the 18th century. individuals don't need to base their self worth on religion.

Should be
>Consequences of DRIVING -> life risk, waste of money
>Consequence of SEX -> pregnancy

Just like driving and accidents, sex with contraception you get off 99.99% of the time without pregnancy. The people who are most likely to get pregnant unintentionally are exactly the morons we don't need any more of. We keep people from driving by requiring a license, but it's more difficult to do that with sex (forced sterilization isn't really a thing anymore). Having legal abortions is the next best thing.

They can go on strike and get higher wages but choose not to. That's because they don't see themselves as sacred.

there is not only one consequence of sex, just like there isn't only one consequence of driving. you can drive for other reasons knowing that there is a risk of getting in a car accident but also knowing that there are enough uses of driving that it is worth the risk of getting into a car accident, just like having sex is worth the risk of getting pregnant. and guess what you can fix your car if you get in an accident and can end a pregnancy if you get pregnant and don't want to carry it to term.

Working for a couple dollars a day in a badly run factory for Nike isn't being enslaved by corporations?

>there are ways to find meaning in life that are not connected to religion
Such as? Being a top professional athlete? Being a world renowned surgeon? Being a lawyer helping thousands of people protecting their rights? Not very realistic for the average guy who will never move up past some shitty cubicle, mate.

i dont really give a fuck about contraception or abortion rights because i will never touch a woman, and am not a woman. i have no female relatives aside from my old mother who doesnt need those rights anyway.

you are extremely ignorant. how old are you?

I vote against it because it pisses off roasties

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Older than you think. I'm a college graduate that came from a union family.

I value life, so I hate abortion, the death penalty, most foreign wars, etc

doing things that make you happy. spending time with family and friends. creating art. enjoying nature. finding something that you enjoy doing it and doing it. building skills. i mean look at how much meaning the average guy in a cubicle finds by watching sports and game of thrones. there's always a way to find more meaning in life if you are willing to try new things and put in the work to figure out what is important to you.

the murder of an innocent child the moment it develops a beating heart.

the way unions work in china is not the way they work in the US. the chinese government does not like people strking or protesting and uses extreme measures to prevent people from doing so. local govt officials are extremely corrupt and you could get sent off to a labor camp for 2 years (with no trial) for doing something that is seen as anything resistant to the government (like going on strike). it's not easy for people to do things like that over there. and factory work genuinely gives a lot of people more conomic power than they'd have without it.

Boi, what the fuck am I even reading. Over 90% of industry in China is owned by China, half goverment and over 40% private chinese companies. China has better average salaries than countries with similar GDP per capita. Chinese companies are expanding agressively to other countries, everyone knows about Africa, but in South America it's gotten to the point of people saying China is "taking over" and things like that. Of course wages there aren't the same as burger, since their economy is still smaller relative to population, but it's important to consider that living costs are also way lower there.

>same as in burgerland

You are forcefully ending the life of what would be a human being. The reason why it's wrong and masturbation isn't is because your sperm will not become a human child in 9 months when you cum into a towel. If left unharmed a fertilized egg will. If the argument is that it is not alive because it is not independent of other life forms then a month old baby would not be considered alive either. It's morally wrong. I would probably encourage one though if I didn't want to have a child because I am a hypocrite.

What if it's your baby?

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