Communism works so poorly that it took the richest country in the history of the world almost a century to bring it down

China never rebranded but it has not been communist since 78. For the soviet union it was 65 but they continued to engage in anti-US foreign policy.

Call it whatever you want, a country rules by a communist party is the most powerful in the world, while US is collapsing.

Mao is one of the greatest men who ever lived. China was poorer than india 100 years ago. Flash-forward to now and India is still suffering starvation. Meanwhile China is one of the most impressive countries.

capitalism took a literal wilderness populated with savages and transformed it to define the modern notion of a superpower, lol

Fucking republican retards

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That's a pretty deep argument for a progressive, congratulation.

China is crumbling already, cracks are showing. Face it Chang, your country has always failed, and it will collapse once again.

Ok, point me a single "crack"

Listen you stupid faggot,

those goddamn ruskies were starving for decades until we beat it into their vodka nigger brains that their entire government is fucking retarded

yeah mao was a genius, starved at least (MINIMUM) 20,000,000 million chinks which is more than anyone lost in WW2

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Leap_Forward#Famine_deaths

those are estimates in millions, including by actual chicoms still chinking in china

Listen - if you don't believe in freedom & democracy, you can get the FUCK off my board!

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america was a revolution in a way but it was supported by people who hated the British empire. most historians agree it's a continuation of the british empire. all the technology they had, all the support they had. it's weird to argue it was a country starting from nothing.

>20,000,000 million chinks which is more than anyone lost in WW2
he didn't starve them, and 50 to 70 million people died in ww2 depending on your definition. at least you're not claiming insane numbers.

How would actual communism even be feasible in this age?

China only stays running because of America, if our stock market tanks their whole economy does. A country can only last so long killing prisoners and stealing their organs.

co-ops

But, it's working and will soon replace US.
Like Lenin said "Capitalists will sell us the rope we will used to hang them"

Communism wouldn't need any kind of industrial powerup at this point in time. It'd just be about fending off the US. Which only one communism country has ever managed to accomplish, but it is doable.

>economy in serious trouble
>government fakes all numbers of economic growth
>extremely high corruption
>hk protests made mainland back down
>xi jinping is your emperor for the next 30 years and everyone wants him to step down
>massive debt
>xinjiang and tibet rioting and going for independence
>taiwan getting international recognition
>xi jinping losing face repeatedly due to being a weak leader but you're stuck with him

Many many signs, Chang. Your country is already going downhill.

>famine wouldn't have happened without mao

china is a powerhouse tho. like their level of economic growth is insane.

he is literally the one who stopped the famines forever. dumbshit americans still wonder why people worship him like a god. he literally built the country you morons

>wow le bad debating skills u libtard hehe

Who said I was here to debate you. I'm just here to laugh at you.

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thats a retarded argument, all societies evolved from some prior society. And considering that America was pretty anti-European, and also established a unique culture thanks to the frontier, something decidedly not-british, saying "b-but it's just a continuation of the british, c-check mate capitalists h-haha" just sounds like a cope, which isn't surprising because coping is the only past-time for communists and communist societies, lmao

it means america already had a large base to start from. and the continent they inhabited. when lenin took power russia was in ruins. when stalin took power russia was in ruins. it's beyond retarded to argue the bolsheviks were operating on the same level as the americans or had anything to spare

Feudalism to space travel in 30 years, even with the US shitting itself, making every attempt it could to stop them. Good thread comrade!

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I have a confession to make. I like larping as a communist online but I don't really know what communism is. I tried reading some of Karl Marx's work but it's all very complicated from what I understand communism is seizing the means of production. Which entails that labor is the foundation of all wealth. The people who own the tools or land for labor are viewed as extortionist who profit of the work of others. The huge wealth difference is said to create a master slave relationship. This becomes increasingly true when we start looking at monopolies and corporations which underpay their employees. This causes the clear class difference of the bourgeoisie and the proletariat. However I don't really understand the economics behind labor theory.

The world is based around interests and investments without these safety nets how would the economy sustain itself? Can interest exist in a communist country?

Also if I said anything stupid please correct me if I'm wrong. Mostly seeking lefty explanation but I'm willing to listen to the right if they don't call me a goymie or something along the lines.

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According to radlib Noam Chomsky and american liberals "Marx would have turned over in his grave if he saw the USSR"

Fucking morons

yeah, its not like they had prior societies or a territory with lots of resources, or anything like that. lmao stay seething, you failure

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russia having lots of natural resources has always been a meme. more than 70% of it is fozen wasteland. america has more than it but is still struggling.

China is a weak paper tiger built on debt and pollution.

oh, is america struggling? Because last I checked,
we were number 1 for both power and wealth. Why are communist apologists so dumb? Does communism come with brainrot, or does brainrot come with communism?

Actually America is #2 for wealth, #1 is Europe.

"Muh 100 gorillion ukgrainians"
euvsdisinfo.eu/report/100-million-killed-by-communist-regimes-these-numbers-are-pulled-out-of-a-hat/

tribunemlreypa.wordpress.com/2018/06/28/holodomor-hoax-joseph-stalins-crime-that-never-took-place/

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capitalism is built on permanent growth my guy. you literally are intrinsically required to conquer the entire planet just to maintain permanent growth.

Well Capitalism has lead to Globohomo Globalism, which will likely be our ou doing.

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Technically Romanov made the initial investments in heavy industry, and Lenin let them rot actually, because muh agraianism...
Though Stalin's pragmatism got the ball rolling again (and the new gulags would kill fewer people than the breadlines of old)
but there are still risks inherent in any centralisation...
I mean Soviet caloric intake surpassed the west in 70s and 80s but internal power struggles still tore the system apart.

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China is literally built on aggressive expansionism and now they have hit a wall so their system is collapsing.

Thank you. The holodomor was not a real event. Starvation in ukraine at the time was caused by rabid reactionaries and kulaks refusing to accept lower profit margins.

Any sources, funny you say that yet your country is being overrun by niggers.

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Every list I'm looking at has America first, dunno what source you're using. typical communist to not even have a basic sense with numbers, you're so predictable

The soviet union was the second fastest growing economy until the kosygin reforms. They murdered Stalin so they could go capitalist. Fuck that shit. Soviet union would have been the greatest power in human history if Kirev was in power following Stalin's natural death.

yeah North Korea is doing real well you dumb fuck

>"Even though North Korea is poorer, I felt more free there. Neighbours and people help each other and depend on each other.
>"Life is simpler there and here they are just slaves to money."

abc.net.au/news/2017-12-15/north-korean-defectors-returning-to-the-hermit-kingdom/9254654

more mandatory plastic surgery and k-pop for you

Yeah, and? What's your point, exactly, user?

EU is the world's largest economy by numbers.

I mean, as of 2018, GDP of the US was nearly 2 TRILLION dollars more than the EU, and that difference is gonna increase dramatically once the UK finalizes its separation from the EU. The cope is REAL with you dumb faggots, lmao. Just admit that the US has every country beat, economically and in terms of power.

Shit homie that reminds me of my visit to Mexico

US has a literal idiot as president. The US is spiraling downwards and can't be repaired. Just like China.

>thinking lenin was smart at all
You commies are all soviet fetishists, thats all it is, every commie ive seen exhudes a love for soviet aesthetics, if not some other regime.

Nothing currency related would exist in "true" communism. The big thing most commies want to do is redistribute the wealth, but the revolution ,if it ever happened like theyve been saying since the 70s, wouldnt be overnight, the rich would see it, move, and take their money with them, so youd be redistributing nothing
Not to mention its nigh impossible to assign anything a value without a medium of currency.
The biggest thing is the "equality" means no one can advance in life as that would be unfair so no one would ever attempt to invent or improve anything because all they woupd get is a pat on the back and their work taken by the "totally not a ruling heirarchy" or whoever has power.
This is also barring the fact that communism would only properly work if every country had it, and every single person alive truly wanted communism and had zero self centerdness whatsoever. That is what marx himself said.

"Yeah, I might benefit from a cleaner environment, group-negotiated healthcare, expansive public transportation, a bearable workload, less advertisements, access to education, and housing, but if I were to magically become a corporate CEO under the current system, I'd be able to sit in traffic in a nice car. So, really, I don't want a worker's paradise" - Delusional retard

Why are people so desperate to give 80% of their surplus labor value to some rich faggot whose only contribution is owning things?

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>b-b-b-but there was a famine one time under communism!

Give me a fucking break

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There's nothing to be repaired! We are literally the best country of this entire world. No amount of seething or "b-but dwumpf is a dummy!!" will change that. Look at you, trying to talk down America using American-invented internet on an American forum, hahaha can you get any more pathetic?

>What do you mean the primary foodstuff that had a shortage was the flour supplied by the privately owned mega-corporation that has historically withheld food to encourage political upheaval?
>What do you mean 1B+ in gold held in Britain that they wouldn't return?
>What do you mean US sanctions?
>Why would the 56 post WW2 US military interventions in SA destabilize the region?
>It's just a coincidence that Guaido is friendly to the US market

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>Yeah, Venezuela might have been fucked, but there's never been a functioning socialist country
>I just feel uncomfortable admitting that the US has invaded nearly every country that ever wanted to put workers before profits

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America is a country
Europe is a whole ass continent
I get the size and everything, but those numbers aren't based on fairness. As a country, US is #1.
That stuff all sounds good except either the "true communism" lack of a government which means invasion is almost 100% likely, especially in a bigger country, or the way communism has always been done and thats a military regime.
Keep using memes to justify your bullshit, but forced labor and a stagnating economy is worse than having my labor stole. Dont act as if humans will ever be free. We will always have a boot on us. Most of us choose the boot that doesnt involve labor camps and concrete housing blocks.
Also capitalism only benifits the people in many ways dumbass, sure my labor is stolen, but i get to cuck companies.
>company A and B both offer the same thing
>Company A makes thing much better and for cheaper
>Company B must now do the same
>now company A and B are in a fight to give the best things to the people for as cheap as possible to win.

Commies have been saying itll happen since fucking forever, it wont. Even zoomers hate you millenial commies and most of them are economically right now. Im all for reform to capitalism, but communism is a joke. Ill take my free market and democracy, like 90% of the working class wants to, thank you very much.

Yeah, it may be the richest country that's ever existed, but healthcare, housing, and education are suuuuuuuuuper complicated and we can't afford it alongside trillion dollar tax cuts for CEOs

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In the war, the new managerial class became wealthier than these
kulaks ever were... (but this was fine because heavy industry was productive)
So the problem beginning with Kruschev, was not some ownership reforms, but
more overreliance on agriculture (a throwback to the pre-war years)
if Soviets specialised in some heavy industry (that both Romanov and
Stalin created), then trade would have boomed...
Yet instead of the next technology revolution, 80's Soviets were mired in
coup attempts... ideology does not get anyone anywhere.
...imagine using nominal figures (using 2019 PPP instead, Eurozone GDP remains ahead, sad!)

US is completely paralyzed because of your politics. Absolutely nothing can get done. You are simply on a slow course of stagnation that was started by Reagan.

>You see, giving away 80% of the work you do so someone can buy a yacht is a good thing actually

Have sex

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Speaking of the 2008 gambling banks crisis.

>Capitalism is the only system that works
*Breaks down entirely every 10 years*
*Gets rejuvenated by war*

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>you see, id rather live in a concrete box filled with 1200 people being forced to farm along with 40% of the population and if i ever misbehave id be killed or sent to a labor camp so that way the evil rich people my internet memes told me about cant exist

Have sex

>Yeah, maybe capitalists are crooked, but the REAL America is upheld by the first responders and the heroes that make it all possible
>But I don't really care about them outside of the prayers my politicians give them on TV

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>There are no labor camps in the US
>Besides the prison system that imprisons more people than the next 3 countries combined

I suggest you engage in intercourse

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>All the atrocities of the modern era were done by socialists
>I mean, the Nazis were the national socialist party. Socialist is in the name for crying out loud!

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>implying i cant support prison reform without supporting a militocratic communist regime

I suggest you partake in the action of putting your phallus in a females vagina

*Rabbles incessantly about how much he hates communists*
*Gets shot by a mall cop*

LMAO

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>the data doesn't support my proposition, so i'll move the goal posts until it does
Nice, the classic "but it wasn't REAL communism" argument, that's your guys' favorite and i'm sure it'll work this time. Right? lmao

Yeah, OK. Meanwhile we still lead the world in economic output and power, so again, what's your point?

murrican money did that actually, and once the buck everybody started dying.

>It's not capitalism
>It's just the limitless CO2 expulsion, the river pollution, the prison system, the prison labor system, the failed war on drugs, the failed war on terror, the incessant wars, the lack of access to healthcare & education & housing, the legal bribery in congress, the 1 in 8 people who are food insecure, the lack of public transportation, the privacy invasion by large corporations & the government, and the radical right-wing terrorists

Coitus beckons you

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If they pull the "its not real commuism as it doesnt follow the ideologies of marx lenin mao and trostky 100%" point out how big bad america isnt a real capitalism by tjat standard because adam smith, the founding father of capitalism said that a free market isnt free without universal healthcare, so by their logic america isnt a real capitalism

>sneeze too loudly
>get reported to secret police by neighbours
jolly

America is the #2 in economic output and power and will soon be #3 unless China crashes faster than everyone thinks it will.

Where do you think the economic growth comes from? Where did the money come from?

I'm gonna be honest, if you would defend someone whose higher than you on a hierarchy, I think you're kind of a cuck. This isn't particularly political, I just personally think it's kinda pathetic.

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>haha look at me i post me me with anime girl showing gommunists as strong and capitalists as bad, if this doesnt legitimize my point you're just a dummy
>limitless c02 expulsion
There are limits shitbrain, with very big fines for going above it
>river pollution
Didnt communist countries and their coal mining also rape the ecosystem?
>failed war on drugs
I agree honestly but thats not an argument for communism, i think drugs should just be legalized, taxed, and treated like weed is.
>failed war on terror
Iffy in a few regards true but isis is almost entirely gone
>lack of access to healthcare education and housing
Healthcare yeah, but once again not an argument for communism as is right, adam smith did say a free market needs universal healthcare.
Education too, but i still dont think thats an argument for communism as it works well with the free market because everyone benifits, especially the economy, if people are educated.
Housing yeah, issue is most empty houses are midwest and east america, while the most homeless are south and west. I think larger shelters would be a bettet alternative, but still i dont think thats an argument for communism as everyone profits when people are able to contribute to society.
>legal bribery
Yeah i hate it, it and the electoral college are fucked. I agree its shitty but i don't think its proof of a need of communism either
>1 in 8 people who are food insecure
True, but insecure mostly means they dont have a stable food source, not a small one. Starvations in america by genuine starvation are under 100 per year, insecure food really just means "they arent able to know if they'll have food next week", they almost always do tho, food stamps and those food donation places helped out alot. Not an argument for communism but a definite argument for change
>lack of public transportation
Im not sure if ive just been lucky but out of the 5 cities ive lived in all have had public transport, free for students too.
1/2

2/2
Back on public transportation i think on a large scale it really cant be done, not yet in america atleast. We're the size of a continent really, long distance train or bus transport is unfeasible. Train infrastructure for transport is undoable anymore as itd be too expensive, but i think once electric busses are normal then it might take off, greyhound (i think thats what it is) has long distance busses, and relatively cheap too
>privacy invasion by the government and corporations
Yeah, id say that capitalism has playrd a role but its only truly come about because of the age of information. A definite issue, but for every corporation invading privacy there are 10,000 people finding loopholes and informing others. Its really not hard to find browsers and other tech things that dont invade privacy. Linux with GNU IceCat for a browser is 100000000x safer than windows with google chrome, and its free.
>radical right wing terrorists
Yeah i despise nazis too, but i dont see how those are because of capitalism, nazis are nazis.

You made alot of good points mate and honestly i dont even wanna banter or throw insults anymore, but i think most of what you said could be fixed by the public caring, and reform, without resorting to communism. Im not gonna claim communist ideas are shit, but i dont think it'll ever work in the real world as long as humans are real, to deny that humans are self centered bastards is to deny that we're human, if push came to shove every man alive would defend what they want over everything else, as long as we are human communism can not work.
I do believe some of the ideas it has can be mixed with the free market to make it better. I see reform as necessary, but communism as not.

Meanwhile, energy extraction (nevermind generation and distribution good) is 25 times more productive than 100 years ago mostly because of bourgeois investment and innovation (so that leaves just 4% for labour contribution at these stages of production)
So Comrade user was right that Stalin and others get a bad wrap but you are clueless if you think people like Romanov were the real problem too...
I mean idealists, be they nationalist or socialist, really cause the collapse by trying to oversimplify this world...
Not even a bankster can survive on fiat alone (although during winter you can burn Reichsmarks for HVAC purposes)
and no, dummy, all this time I was saying real socialism is the worse kind (imagine calling yourself capitalism and instead being an ideologue)
...which is precisely why the elite is throwing nationalist hacks under the ethnik bus in this environment (because pragmatism rules)
...by PPP that had already happened.

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Shit, my bad. I forgot that it's human nature. How much do you tip your CEO for taking a bunch of your surplus labor value?

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Energy extraction is more efficient because of researchers and laborers. A bunch of fat bastards in top hats counting dollars didn't really contribute very much to that.

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It is dipshit, humans are self centered creatures. But resort to ad hominem and strawman instead of even attempting to prove me wrong. Your le ebin gommie memes really prove your point

"Being self centered actually means laboring for hours so that some kid whose father owned a slave plantation can buy a yacht. I wouldn't personally benefit from a cleaner environment, group-negotiated healthcare, expansive public transportation, a bearable workload, less advertisements, access to education, and housing"

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Once again dodging the question, stating things that dont need communism to work, using shitty memes, and strawmanning
This is why you dumbasses havent gotten anywhere in forever.
Stay absolutely seething and keep posting cope memes

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If it was that simple, IT would have taken off in Moscow long ago... HFT and VC handle far more volume than smoke filled rooms or even the trade floor ever (has created a more efficient technocracy than anything of the USSR)
So weak investment decisions have shorted their own VLSI work in the 80s and it takes more than theoreticians to deploy technology in real industries.

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>backward medieval
>had the full power of Tsarist Industrial and economic reform
And the communists still could not prevent tsarism 2.0
Communism is slavism
It is racial

America had literally none of the industry of England.
Also industrialism occurred after the revolution. There is zero evidence American success was the result of prior English investment.
However Russia had been undergoing reforms for the better part of a century. Not to mention the pre-war commies were unironically more backward and tried to revert to a medieval system that was a-technological. When the war happened AMERICAN industry provides the Soviet Union with technology and resources to build a wartime infrastructure.
Theres a reason communism never progressed beyond military hierarchy.

We give away 80% of our income to niggers and communist welfare leeches
How about YOU stop stealing from the working class before we put you six feet under ay comrade?

So the 90s and breakup were a disaster but key players in this were not all Slavs actually...
Meanwhile there was a recovery, smart policies around the turn of the century to boot, or at least before someone put sanctions everywhere.