Debating an atheist friend

The brightest mathematician to ever live, Von Neumann, died fearing The Lord.

>the God hypothesis
It's not worth anything, because you can prove neither side of the argument.
You can't design an experiment that will without fail falsify your hypothesis, therefore your hypothesis os meaningless.

These people are also the most likely to start shoving their shitty beliefs in others' faces.
>Gawd LITERALLY SAVED ME
>muh personal experience
>an atheist would have died
Fuck them.

Sounds like he's turning Atheism into a religion. I assume he's a fan of the "treat religion like it's your penis, don't try to shove it down other people's throats" saying or however it goes. Maybe try explaining to him he's just as bad.

The burden of proof is on the one making the claim. You claim that He exists, but how can you prove it? What is there that can only be explained through God's existence? You don't even have a hint as to whether God exists at all. Let alone the All-powerful, all-knowing and benevolent God of scripture. Perhaps God does exist but he is merely the Demiurge.

>beyond ignorant, offensive and arrogant
Calm down tumblrina

OP your friend is righgt. Sounds like you envy his intelligence so your hung up on religion like a true low iq lifeform. He just needs to tone it down, you need to quit thinking about another mans opinions so much

>The brightest mathematician to ever live, Von Neumann,
Thats subjective. What about all the atheist scientists?

But that doesn't fit your low iq confirmation bias

God doesn't exist. Its objectively impossible for a magic sky man to exist in the capacity religion protrays.

Agnosticism is for the weak minded and mid-iq

Aron Ra is, alongside AnticitizenX, the youtube atheist who makes the best point and has changed me from agnostic to atheist. While a superior being might exist of some sort, the christian god described in the Bible is non sensical

Why is it impossible, that's a bold claim

You're both dickheads for giving a shit about other people's beliefs. Fait has and shouldn't have anything to do with reason. Loss of faith might, but not faith itself.

both of you are primitives who fail to see the truth
just recite the magical words and you will understand
fuck the demiurge

>Aron Ra is, alongside AnticitizenX, the youtube atheist who makes the best point and has changed me from agnostic to atheist.

Listening to any salesman's salespitch for hours on end will make it seem very rational.

>the christian god described in the Bible is non sensical
You do realize this is based on listening to Aron Ra and not someone who actually reads, understands and agrees with the Bible?
If you want to be objective you need to listen to Christians replying to Aron Ra.
The point is, there are always, ALWAYS going to be questions, and then answers, followed by more questions.
It will never end. Aron Ra makes it seem like his case is closed and his arguments are perfect, but it's not the case. You can always find a Christian somewhere who will argue his case.

if you tried to explain radio waves, the internet, microwaves, etc to a medieval peasant, he's unlikely to understand
that doesn't mean they don't exist

say i went to a kids school and i gave them a calculus question, one kid says the answer is "7", another says the answer is "3"
i say "3 is correct, how did you know?", the kid would laugh and say "well i had 3 fish fingers for breakfast and that's why i said 3 and you said it's correct lol"
well but the answer to that calculus question really is 3 tho, even tho the kids don't fully understand how to solve it

atheists are some of the most illogical people there are

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>but we can't re-create it so it can't be true
we can create AI, the only difference is our brain is not a mechanical machine but a bio-chemical-electrical one
as for the concept of a soul, we have cloud servers right NOW, it's perfectly plausable that our conciseness is actually hosted on a server in heaven and is merely being streamed to our brain, so even if you destroy the vessel the information would not be lost

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>impossible, that's a bold claim
Yeah man the parting of the red sea totally happened, not like thats complete fantasy

Yeah theres a pock dimension where all the good people go after they die but not if they didn't beat their wife

Every single notion of religion is ridiculous fantasy. Its like believing in santa. "Miracles" are just unlikely coincidences that fool our brain into thinking theres a higher power, but we ignore every instance that proves we live in a raw, unfiltered reality where we are at mercy of randomness

>You can always find a Christian somewhere who will argue his case.
I mean what could you possibly argue logically about

>Atheists always watch videos made by other atheists so they get positive confirmation to ideas and feelings they already have.
atheism is literally a religion
it's based on blind faith and rejection of logic and facts
p sure their prophet dawkins said even if he had a vision or sign from god he would still say it can't be god

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>youtube atheist

I can't believe this a thing.

Aron Ra is a perfect example of one of those guys who couldn't make it in actual academia and science (he quit uni) so they cope by becoming "Youtube atheists" and making more money they would ever make in academia.

Atheism is a circlejerk, and the only ones winning are these guys who make 5k a month saying God doesn't exist.. wow what a fucking revelation. Requires absolutely nothing to come to this conclusion. Then they battle morons, and obviously win, and this makes them seem more powerful than they are.

Youtube atheists are paid religious leaders of 2019. You can't prove me wrong. They literally are.

>comparing god to radio waves
>animu
Literally mentally ill lol

>no
not an argument

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sounds like he grew up surrounded by halfwits, thats how this attitude comes about, as the saying goes , "in a land of blind men the one-eyed man is king",
Hes never been challenged intellectually, especially by other people, so he assumes hes right. put him in a room with intellectually equal or superior people, and he'll realize hes not all that special. Easy trap to fall into.

>Yeah man the parting of the red sea totally happened, not like thats complete fantasy
You can interpret this in many ways beyond the literal one, and you do need to keep in mind that the Old Testament is very old.

>Yeah theres a pock dimension where all the good people go after they die but not if they didn't beat their wife
Impossible to falsify either way, so making a claim in either directipn is unreasonable.

>Every single notion of religion is ridiculous fantasy. Its like believing in santa.
Is is, but can you prove either of the two sides? Making such bold statements with unshakeable confidence is rather silly.

>hurr durr maybe real life is just like the internet, dey got cloud servers in heaven n shiet
Lmao what a ridiculous, juvenile, uninformed opinion

You can't just make baseless comparisons and assume its right

the core claim of atheist DUMBASSES is one of practicality, "is it something we can observe / do, if yes then there's a likelihood, if not then i put my fingers in my ears and i go LALLALALAA "
well, dumbass, i'm giving you examples on things that CAN be done, thus it's not SUPERNATURAL it's NATURAL
you're too ZEALOUS for your atheistic religion

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>You can interpret this in many ways beyond the literal one
Yeah it was just a metaphor for using rafts and shiet. Nice mental gymnastics. "muh old testament can be ignored btw"

>Is is, but can you prove either of the two sides
I mean i could go commit an atrocious act of evil and live a long happy life, contrary to god. But a bunch of people already do.

Muh god can't be disproven is such an intellectually lazy answer. Is fantasy real? Can be have magic powers and come back to life? No. So the bible is fiction, and therefore the Christian god

>cloud computing proves souls are real
You're a genuine moron, quit wasting my time

If you want to beat him, you have to be right. Your religion is flawed and illogical so stop arguing on its terms. Ask why he never addresses any other religions.
Atheists that show contempt for all theologies cannot be beaten by religious arguments. Sorry, dude.

>no
still not an argument

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I'm a theoretical physics student and believe in God. I used to be into philosophy and I'm currently writing a book that is going to have God make perfect sense in the "scientific" world of 2019. I'm not writing it to convert people, but because I want people to see how my mind works. I see depth and meaning in existence itself that most fail to see.
I don't want to say we live in the era of science because people these days are idiots and the only thing developing is 5G, and even that is giving us cancer so yeah.

Richard Dawkins would say I'm an imbecile and incapable of studying science.
But I say he's a biologist and they have nothing on physicists. He knows evolution and that's pretty much it. Biology doesn't really require abstract thought.

>140 IQ
Suuuuuuuure
All the gifted people I know fail out of college & rely on YouTube videos for talking points

Just because energy is conserved, doesn't mean that the organisation of that energy must be, otherwise erasing computer hard drives would be impossible.

You haven't even made an argument. You've just outed yourself as a mentally stunted weeaboo who draws comparisons between god and the internet, probably because you're a no life weeb who needs religion to feel somewhat secure

I reiterate, cloud computing=/= heaven

Santa was real, fuckwit

Prove god mathematically here, then. Your book won't succeed enough to rach an international audience so do it here. Give us a brief rundown.
I'll wait.
Also, nice arrogance.

Sounds like you're both egotistical assholes really

Christianity
>spawned architecture, music, art; origin of hospitals and universities; philosophical underpinning of things like the rule of law and natural rights
Atheism
>killed 100 million people in just the 20th century
Really makes you think

>posts on Jow Forums
>calls people nolifers
you're not talking to a theist, you atheist dumbass, you're talking to an agnostic
i'm not claiming anything other than a possibility which you willingly close your eyes to
i have given you numerous examples, you don't like the internet? sure, and in the middle ages people would not have believed "the internet" even existed, that doesn't mean that it can't JUST BECAUSE YOU DON"T UNDERSTAND IT YOU HAIRLESS MONKEY

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>use the a priori science to prove something metaphysical
Translation
>duuuurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Yo, could you all shut the fuck up? This is really pretentious and dumb. It's like listening to 13 y/o

he belongs to the speciald ed classroom if he watches atheist youtubers.

>Your religion is flawed and illogical so stop arguing on its terms.

Whatever contradiction you can find in the Bible can be explained by a devout Christian and it never ends. The battle has literally been going on for centuries and will not end.

To save time I think every single person in this world should accept the following:
Jesus existed, for real. Whether he was divine or just a philosopher dude is purely up to your personal feeling. There is no proof for this, or against this. People like Aron Ra will fight till their death to claim the Bible was forged later on by the church or something like that but all this is pointless really. There's only one question: was he just a man or son of God like he claimed? There's nothing else. Why would there be? Jesus himself wanted people to follow him out of their heart and not scientific evidence. The entire debate is therefore absolutely senseless.

I can't understand why atheists fail to see this. I can't understand why people can't deal with this and stop ridiculing one another.

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>I can't understand why atheists fail to see this
because atheism is a militant religion and communism is an extremist ideology

So was jesus, but his story was embellished

I mean that's a really one sided argument. Im sure Christianity hasn't ever done any wrong

The possibility of god in the Christian sense is no-existant in my mind. A higher power, yes. Does this make me agnostic? Not necessarily, afaik

That doesn't prove it though. You're a bright guy. Prove it. You're just asserting that Jesus must be real, and then that God must be real.
Give evidence. Run an experiment. Just because it could exist, doesn't mean it does exist.

I'm an atheist and a fascistic meritocratist. I believe in killing the working class and anyone who refuses to (or is incapable of) demanding and interpreting raw data (even if they blindly believe in my side).
Try again.

>I mean that's a really one sided argument
user failed to board the clue train

The only question that matters is if the universe is eternal, or God is eternal. If the universe is finite a Creator exists. If theh jverse is infinite there is no start or end, a Creator was needed. If the universe is eternal without end then how did the universe start with the definition of nothing? The reprimanding of the Bible is just a red herring, the only thing that matters is existence itself, and how it came to be. Whether the Christian God or a superior all knowing, or we live in a smaller dimension, a universe within another universe, the only mark that has any compound of ending the religion debate is the answer to this question. Semantics arguments criticizing the Bible are not valid as it is man made text.

Ask him to solve the mind-body problem.

user
>Every single notion of religion is ridiculous fantasy. Its like believing in santa...
Me
>Santa was real
user
>sure, Santa was real
.....
You lost the thread of conversation, fuckwit.

>atheist
>friend
I have never met an atheist that was not a massively shallow pseud more focused on hoping other people think he is smart than anything else

>I can prove god
>What, you want me to give evidence?
>Duuurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
I can help. You'll need a loaded shotgun and a hacksaw.

>You're just asserting that Jesus must be real
there are numerous letters and even roman sources, a guy called Jesus lived as much as a guy called Julius Caesar lived
the only real reasons to doubt that are religious ones
>and that god must be real
the existence of god for now is unknown and possibly even unknowable
that that doesn't mean it can't exist
>The possibility of god in the Christian sense is non-existant in my mind.
then you're not scientific
the facts on the ground are as they are, regardless of whether you like them or not

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You're making the classic mistake of having the argument in the first place. If his beliefs are so deeply ingrained in the first place you have no hope of changing them. If he's that militant, chances are he's integrated his views into his identity so you're essentially trying to change who he is fundamentally by getting him to see the error of his ways.

The only person who can truly change his mind is him. If he's not willing to look at other viewpoints or entertain ideas that challenge his worldview then so be it.

You ever seen when people from opposite sides of the political spectrum try to win an argument? How often do participants walk away with their minds changed? I'd say almost never. Religion is even worse since you're talking about the ideas behind understanding existence itself, something far more substantial than politics.

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>if god doesn't do things MY way then he can't be real

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Use Occam's razor. If no evidence exists for it and can't ever be shown, then there's no reason to believe it exists. The system works fine without God so why shoehorn one in, specifically the Abrahamic one with the Christianity update but not the Islam update?
>inb4 B-but cause and effect before the laws os basic logic and physics existed in a pre-time and pre-dimension state

>You lost the thread of conversation, fuckwit.
>calls me a fuckwit
>whinges his whole argument on santa
>probably a grown man
Lmao. What a sad joke. I'll spell it out for you like a child. Santa, noy riding on a reindeer sleigh sants, being real doesn't mean jesus rose from the dead or god is real. Get back to me when the reindeer hoofs on the roof go click clicky

It was sarcasm. You've so obviously just parroted some Jow Forums factoid. The accomplishments don't prove god is real. If you don't think people have also suffered as a result of religion, you're delusional

Tell him hes obsessed and stop copping. Go debate if god exists with a muslim.

>baby rape aids existence of pure suffering dying of starvation
>le god works in mysterious ways
>smug animu pic

>If no evidence exists for it and can't ever be shown, then there's no reason to believe it exists
right, let's try this again

>be me
>travel back in time to middle ages
>tell peasants i meet that internet, microwaves and radio waves are legit

>be you
>be peasant
>"If no evidence exists for it and can't ever be shown, then there's no reason to believe it exists"

congratulations, you just disproved the internet, this conversation must be taking place in your head because clearly you're hallucinating

exactly my point
you drank your "we made god in our image" coolaid too much

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>noy riding on a reindeer sleigh sants
Not riding on a reindeer sleigh santa
Fixd

The point

Your head

Great way to admit you know zero about maths

>if i keep repeating this lame talking point itll make sense
No moron, you can't compare feasibly middle age era people to modern people on their ability to interpret phenomenon and somehow that further extrapolates the concept of god. Shut the fuck up, you're not clever at all

>you drank your "we made god in our image" coolaid too much
Why don't you speak clearly. What is that supposed to mean? So god isn't supposed to be righteous at all? Moronic doublethink

Let me be very clear
Santa was a real guy
Thus the statement
>Every single notion of religion is ridiculous fantasy. Its like believing in santa
Is literally retarded if you know Santa was real.
I am mocking your stupidity and you are too stupid to grasp that

>the facts on the ground are as they are, regardless of whether you like them or not
Reiterate those for me please

You
>makes stupid one-sides arguments
user
>mocks you by making one back
You
>too stupid to realize you are being mocked *after being told*
Typical atheist- since they fail at life the use atheism to pretend they are not retarded

Just post this image any time he says anything on the topic.

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And im talking about the santa they say actually delivers toys every Christmas you actual seething retard. The fucking cartoon character

>hurr durr was actually reel guy

Did the real fucking guy fly on a sleigh and deliver toys to the entire world? Shut the fuck up you practical subhuman moron. Its baffling you'll never see the irony in anything you said

God is a superintelligent AI. If he accepts that there will be a technological singularity, and that eternalism is true, he has to accept that God exists.

youtube.com/watch?v=jxYbA1pt8LA

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Typical Christian unable to use critical skills, resorts to childish mocking. You guys don't have a braincell between you

you accept that a god can exist but so long as it's not the christian god?
that's your personal preference, if a god does exist it can be the christian one whether you like it or not
it could even be the spaghetti one
but the argument over the possibility of a god existing is the distinction between an agnostic (scientific) and an atheist (zealot)

>you can't compare feasibly middle age era people to modern people on their ability to interpret phenomenon
and why THE FUCK not
human knowledge is always improving and expanding
exactly by people who are driven and curious, you are neither
>So god isn't supposed to be righteous at all?
no, not by your definition
one man's freedom fighter is another man's separatist
one women's abortion is another woman's murder

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You yourself just asserted that God is likely unprovable. I have no reason to believe in it until an experiment proving it comes my way.

I probably know more about it than someone who says they can prove how God fits into our sciences but just half-baked insults when asked to actually show how that works.

>you accept that a god can exist but so long as it's not the christian god? that's your personal preference, if a god does exist it can be the christian one whether you like it or not it could even be the spaghetti one but the argument over the possibility of a god existing is the distinction between an agnostic (scientific) and an atheist (zealot)
No, im just specifically arguing about the Christian god. So basically everything you said was a cop out straw man. Every religion is wrong

>human knowledge is always improving and expanding exactly by people who are driven and curious, you are neither
People still believe in flat earth, on the contrary Galileo was around the time you mentioned. People are stupid in general

>no, not by your definition one man's freedom fighter is another man's separatist one women's abortion is another woman's murder
By what definition is starving suffering children subjective. One mans dead baby is anothers fleshlight? Wheres your snarky explanation for that?

>How do I drop him from his ivory tower?

you don't the absence of god is more probable than there actually being one, relilgious fags are fuckin delusional

original of course

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every single religious person is a scientist conducting an experiment to prove god
some claim to have had success, and can you blame them? many get their lives in order, have children, make great civilizations and so on
>likely unprovable
POSSIBLY unprovable
and POSSIBLY provable
atheism has no leg to stand on
>i want proof
and then you're become a theist? you sure? your prophet Dawkins (peace be upon him) said that EVEN IF he saw a sign or a miracle he would still attribute it to hallucinations or aliens or someone playing a trick on him because he believes there is NO WAY that a god exists, which a brainlet point to make
>im just specifically arguing about the Christian god
-t. satanist
>By what definition is starving suffering children subjective
mysterious ways, maybe they were evil in a past life. maybe it's to make them stronger people / prepare them for a life of greatness, and they are not being chosen because they can't take it, but exactly because they can
either way that's not what this is about, it's about odds, if you say there's a chance, you're an agnostic and should bury your atheist hatchet, because it makes no logical sense

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>-t. satanist
I literally said ever religion is wrong.

>mysterious ways, maybe they were evil in a past life. maybe it's to make them stronger people / prepare them for a life
Yeah youre retarded. This is pretty much the end of the argument. Save this as smart things you said on Jow Forums. Dead kids? Must of been bad in a past life. Woah. Revolutionary. Quote - user 2019. The supreme philosopher.

>you're not talking to a theist, you atheist dumbass, you're talking to an agnostic
lmao faggo you don't understand what those words even mean right?

>either way that's not what this is about, it's about odds, if you say there's a chance, you're an agnostic and should bury your atheist hatchet, because it makes no logical sense
Also, i personally teeter between a stone cold stoic atheism and the possibility of a nonconventional higher power. Lets call it the force for shits n gigs. Does this make me agnostic? Then sure, but if i didn't attempt to disprove or consider the possibility that'd be intellectually dishonest imo

The main problem with believing in religion is that it is entirely cultural, which is not to imply that religion is bad, but rather inconsistent. You are entirely assuming something is true because people before you believed it was true with no way of verifying this yourself, like a game of multi-millennial Chinese whispers. And it shows very much, with the derivative upon derivative edition of each religion, each of which continues to branch and change with age to acclimate with the times, and most bizarrely in the case of newer Abrahamic religions which didn't even exist until relatively recently, yet are held as absolute truths (again, despite massively changing over time with no divine intervention to justify said change).

i'm just giving you examples of what could be
if you prefer it could be that god has given us free will and all suffering is caused by humans (and curses on their later generations for being sinners)
you could also say there are other forces that also can harm us and also have free will (such as demons) etc etc
those are examples and possibilities and not what i claim IS taking place
>ever religion is wrong
it depends on what your definition of a religion is
you - someone who is not me
're - short for are, verb, doing
not - *-1
talking - vibrations made via vocal cords
to - towards someone/something
a - meaningless sound
theist, - someone who has blind faith in god
you - as above mentioned
atheist - someone who has blind faith in the non existence of god
dumbass, - because a zealous dickhead
you- as above mentioned
're - as above mentioned
talking - as above mentioned
to - as above mentioned
an - still meaningless
agnostic- person who believes that there is a possibility, however small, that things outside of our current (or general) understanding may exist

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if his IQ is so high, why does he not realize the futility of arguing about a dumb religion with his loser friends?

watch

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>a - meaningless sound
>theist, - someone who has blind faith in god
yeah, no
>agnostic- person who believes that there is a possibility, however small, that things outside of our current (or general) understanding may exist
wrong again
Theism is a belief in a supreme being, atheism is rejection of that belief. Agnosticism is orthogonal to those two. It means you admit there's no way to know if a god exist. If you don't believe in a god then you're an atheist, no need to pretend you're some sort of le enlightened centrist agnostic (tm)

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universe maker

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Toaster-ism is a belief in toasters existing, a-Toaster-ism is rejection of that belief based on not having a toaster.
Agnosticism means you admit that you don't have a toaster but that that IS a way to know if toasters exist and we should look to buy one if we can, maybe now, maybe in 1000 years, maybe in 10,000.

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yeah it's big bangs all the way down amarite

by the way, if you can watch this video with a straight face, you must have bugs for brains
youtube.com/watch?v=RwKG_R9URyY&feature=youtu.be&t=34

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>a-Toaster-ism is rejection of that belief based on not having a toaster
>based on not having a toaster
irrelevant
>that that IS a way to know
agnostics don't claim there is or will be a way toknow something
if you don't believe in toasters you're an atoasterist, even if you admit they can possibly exist. If you believe toasters don't exist you're an antitoasterist.

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>no middle ground
i can believe BOTH that we don't know now AND that we may know in the future

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>big bang
did i say anything about big bang dumbass? And what about that video do you disagree with? I'm not gonna bother watching it because you think "lol look how absurd xD"

>universe maker

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Notion that humans are peak lifeforms and that there's nothing in the universe that can top them is probably dumber than creationism (this superior creature would be god).