What would you do if you had free will?

This guys got it, hell i'll probably do it eventually anyway.

>Then probably die from some kind of stress related heart failure at around the age of 70.

You're much more likely to die from colon cancer by the age of 30-35

Thank you, Lucifer

doesn't matter, the very concept of free will is impossible and even if it wasn't it wouldn't change anything

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>free will is the ability to decide between two or more options and act on them. there are physical constraints to which options are available, but don't listen to meme determinists, that whole philosophy is a thought experiment and doesn't apply to life.
That's not free will. Even computers can make decisions based on what they are programmed to value. It's the same with humans. Free will cannot be defined because it doesn't make sense.

>this thing that can be defined cannot be defined
okay, if you say so. computers are a different context. even if you are somehow clueless as to the differences between how information goes through human brains and computer processors, free will is always a conversation about human experience. we have no frame of reference for being a computer.

No, you defined will, not free will. Will is simply when a being makes decisions based on the information provided and the criteria it values. It is the same principle, as human brains are developed through genetics and social conditioning. People make decisions based on the criteria their brains have developed, take in information and apply that criteria, and then make the decision. I don't really know how to break this down any further for you. 'Frame of reference for being a computer' is irrelevant, we're not talking about being a computer. Free will does not exist.

>this thing that exists in our lexicon and experiences doesn't exist
very cool, you are super smart. there's no 1:1 decision on those inputs. you could have posted a million different edgy opinions right now.

This isn't such a difficult concept to grasp. Firstly, a concept existing in our language is not evidence of its existence, because humans have something called imagination. Time travel is a concept we made up, that does not mean it exists. And the reason you believe it is in our 'experiences' is because of the illusion of free will. You make decisions, therefore you believe there is some all-powerful agency. However, the agency you display is affected by external factors, which in turn are affected by external factors. So the decision-making ability you display is actually will, not this 'free will'. Everything else you've typed does not address any of my points. What exactly do you think free will is?

>>shitty font wall of text
>>dumpass poetry blog
>nah.
>being this superficial
>free will is the ability to decide between two or more options and act on them
no, it isn't.

>the illusion meme
Ok then everything is an illusion. Brain in a vat tier retard philosophy.

>if I call free will, simply will, that makes me seem smart
You are free to stop making a fool of yourself at any time

You are not understanding what I am saying properly. You are latching onto random words and then making up some kind of non-point that doesn't address anything about the actual argument. I am not simply talking about "everything we experience through our senses could be an illusion" since that is irrelevant for what we are talking about. I am talking about us believing something false due to the pretenses we live under. We only assume free will to exist because if we make decisions, that must mean we have the ultimate agency over what we do, right? But that is the illusion, because in actuality our decision-making abilities function based on external factors.
Free will and will are two distinct concepts, please learn the distinction. Will is simply a being making decisions. However, this does not imply that they have any agency beyond what they are 'programmed' to choose. People make the decisions they make based on what their brains decide, and therefore there is only one possible course of events that will transpire, due to there not being any reason for the variables that go into making these decisions to suddenly shift from what they are determined to be.

>actual argument
your argument starts in a place that leaves no room for discussion. you are biased towards believing that our experiences are illusions while also having conviction that your experiences are true. if you don't want to call your decisions the effect of free will, why should i even care? the overall debate about how responsible we are for our actions is an endless one with no right answers. if you think you carry no responsibility, that's great we call that mental retardation.

>programmed
people program themselves. there are countless methods that prove it.

the concept of free will doesn't exist in this universe, the phrase "free will" just refers to a concept created our imaginations to describe the experience of how our brains make decisions, so unless you're a retard who thinks he's a genius for playing with semantics and understanding basic philosophy, it's perfectly reasonable to say we DO have free will, and if I didn't have it then I'd still be calling you a faggot right now

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>our brains are somehow separate from ourselves
uhhh wrong.

>your argument starts in a place that leaves no room for discussion.
If someone is wrong and can't come up with anything to say in response to something truthful, that doesn't mean the other person is wrong.
>you are biased towards believing that our experiences are illusions while also having conviction that your experiences are true.
You are incapable of comprehending anything I say. Once again, I'll say that the belief that our experiences are illusions is irrelevant to the conversation. Free will is a different thing. I have already laid out why it is an 'illusion', which I repeat is not the belief that our experiences aren't real.
>if you don't want to call your decisions the effect of free will, why should i even care?
Because I have laid out the reasons why they are not the effect of free will.
>the overall debate about how responsible we are for our actions is an endless one with no right answers.
Actually, the right answers are here, I'm telling you them right now. This is the only answer that makes sense through human reasoning.
>if you think you carry no responsibility, that's great we call that mental retardation.
While I can say that I make the decisions, there is no possibility that I could have chosen something else. We can link identities to the decisions they make, but true 'responsibility' requires true agency, which doesn't exist or make sense. Your insults about mental retardation are silly and desperate, because they don't have any relation to what you're saying.
>people program themselves. there are countless methods that prove it.
Yes, they program themselves because they are programmed to program themselves. It is not that difficult to understand just because the idea of 'programming' immediately pops up as an image of a guy typing into a computer in your head. People create habits for themselves based on the decision that their brain works out.

>Firstly, a concept existing in our language is not evidence of its existence, because humans have something called imagination
are you implying imagination is something intangible? that free will as a concept doesn't even exist in the physical world, because our illusions about reality "aren't real?" do you realize the can of worms you're opening? you sound like a 12 year old who just had his first existential crisis, literally everybody here understands what you're saying, it's just that you're so retarded that you don't realize how retarded you are

the fuck is this supposed to mean?

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>i'm wrong
i know
>my belief is real but yours isn't!!!!
*farts*
>all humans have the same reasoning
yikes

you're simply closed minded and have faith in the concept of 1:1 input/output models of human psyche. it's not a very interesting argument. even if you believed in determinism, that wouldn't exclude free will as being a determined property of the universe. i could just as easily say that your "no other possibility" theory is just an illusion to comfort your mind from regret.

>Free will doesn't make sense to me :(
That's not an argument.

>are you implying imagination is something intangible?
No? You can think of something in your brain, and it is tangible. But it is not on the same level as something that exists for every human outside of their head. For example, I can think of time travel as a concept, but it does not mean that it is actually something that we can do in reality.
>because our illusions about reality "aren't real?" do you realize the can of worms you're opening?
None of you can read. I have explained enough times what I mean by 'illusion', you just latch onto one word because it means you can create an argument that appears to actually say something meaningful.
>you sound like a 12 year old who just had his first existential crisis, literally everybody here understands what you're saying, it's just that you're so retarded that you don't realize how retarded you are
Why bother with these stupid insults? I can literally say the same thing back to you based on how you've misinterpreted everything I've said and have gone for the easy, common arguments against topics that aren't even relevant because you've watched people do it on Jow Forums.
>you're simply closed minded and have faith in the concept of 1:1 input/output models of human psyche
You don't have to use 'models' for this, though. It's nothing to do with 1:1 input/output, because there are so many variables that go into human decision-making that to label what's going on is extremely difficult.
>even if you believed in determinism, that wouldn't exclude free will as being a determined property of the universe.
Tell me what you think free will is. Just tell me what you think it is. It seems everyone who believes in it has faith in some sort of vague idea that is no different than the standard idea of 'will'.
>i could just as easily say that your "no other possibility" theory is just an illusion to comfort your mind from regret.
I could say you believe in free will because it makes you feel proud and comforts your ego.

>not having free will doesn't make sense to me :(
See how easy that is? You don't have anything to say about free will itself, other than repeating the words free will over and over again. That's because anything you say ultimately goes back to the idea of 'will'. I keep having to make this distinction over a few words because people don't understand what they are thinking doesn't have the same implications as what we are actually living.

thats a nonsensical concept and i cant answer that question but the best answer i can get is "imagine something unimaginable"

don't worry, it truly won't make sense to you anyway.

>Yeah, I could explain myself and my beliefs, but it would be lost on you anyway...
This entire discussion has been a waste of time. You are too ignorant to question your beliefs or even make a rebuttal to what I'm saying.

you haven't been saying anything other than your belief that free will doesn't make sense (to you). who am i to educate you? even when we were talking about the exact same thing you weaseled your way into some irrational fantasy where there's no other possible choice and that people have no agency. have a great time with all of that mess in your head.

No, I've been laying out the reasons for why free will cannot possibly exist, and you've been ignoring them to indulge in your delusion. Only a severe hypocrite would call it an 'irrational fantasy' while ignoring the concept of cause and effect. Where do you think the reasons for people's decision-making comes from? Even reasons themselves are enough evidence against free will; a world that functions according to reason is not 'free'. Possibility is another silly thing that you believe in. A lack of information automatically means that anything is possible? And what agency? Seriously, tell me what you think this agency is, tell me what this free will is. You keep ignoring this question and dodging it, I'm assuming you're becoming quite desperate right now if you can't even answer this basic question.

>reasons
>shitty analogs and dismissing evidence as "illusions"
try again. you're upset about something else bro. maybe i have free will and you don't. that's fine. you probably think Jow Forums exists in reality, but somehow your thought process doesn't. it doesn't bother me.

I can't tell what parts of this are for me and what parts are for the other user, you've quoted my post but mixed in posts from me and and others, but all of your reply text is equally retarded rhetorical philosophical masturbation so I'll just skip to the questions
>Tell me what you think free will is. Just tell me what you think it is. It seems everyone who believes in it has faith in some sort of vague idea that is no different than the standard idea of 'will'.
free will is a phrase that describes the sensation of making decisions, just like sight is a phrase that describes the sensation of seeing things, and pity is a phrase that describes the sensation of reading your attempts at sounding educated
>I could say you believe in free will because it makes you feel proud and comforts your ego.
I believe in free will because it makes literally no difference to me whether I'm magically controlling the outcome of the universe or the neurons in my brain are firing in response to stimuli, it feels exactly the same either way and has literally no impact on my life or experience whatsoever
the universe as we know it is filtered through our experience, so denying our experience as "not technically real," even when it makes no difference, is something that only a true pseudointellectual retard like you can do

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I would either become a god, or put myself in a state of eternal orgasm, or both

Once again you have nothing to say. I'm sorry for you.
What an irritating tone of passive-aggression you carry. Your childish attempts at projecting your insecure ideas of pseudo-intellectualism displays a lack of meaningful response to anything that you don't understand or haven't encountered before. See? See how easy it is to hurl stupid insults? Annoying.
>free will is a phrase that describes the sensation of making decisions, just like sight is a phrase that describes the sensation of seeing things, and pity is a phrase that describes the sensation of reading your attempts at sounding educated
Okay, I don't care what words you use to describe it, but making decisions does not suggest any higher agency. I am beginning to think you aren't comprehending what the difference is. Making decisions is all well and good, but ultimately how you make those decisions and what you choose can't be decided, it's just that you experience a decision-making process.
>I believe in free will because it makes literally no difference to me whether I'm magically controlling the outcome of the universe or the neurons in my brain are firing in response to stimuli, it feels exactly the same either way and has literally no impact on my life or experience whatsoever
It doesn't impact what you feel, that's correct. However, you can use that information and change your behavior accordingly if you're capable of it. For example, you could start by stop hurling insults at people on the internet like you're a smart person, because even if they were dumber than you it's not like they can help it.
>the universe as we know it is filtered through our experience, so denying our experience as "not technically real," even when it makes no difference, is something that only a true pseudointellectual retard like you can do
I've said what I meant by that a million times and you still can't understand it. You probably saw that mickey mouse comic and think it applies to everything now.

>making decisions does not suggest any higher agency
I don't believe in higher agency, I didn't claim to believe in it anywhere in this thread, so once again you're retarded
>I've said what I meant by that a million times and you still can't understand it. You probably saw that mickey mouse comic and think it applies to everything now.
I understand that everything I've read from you is just various ways of rephrasing "there's technically no such thing as free agency" then bending semantics around to defend against people who call you out for even thinking this subject is worthy of any further conversation. it's not a hard concept to grasp, everybody here already gets the difference between free agency and the illusion of will, there's just nowhere to go after getting that, it's literally a pointless argument that's only being made so you can stroke your brain's imaginary cock

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>I don't believe in higher agency, I didn't claim to believe in it anywhere in this thread, so once again you're retarded
Explain why you and that other guy are arguing with me then? What are you disagreeing with? Are you stupid? Can't you read? Did you want to stroke your pseudo-intellectual ego by constructing difficult-sounding nonsense and owning a fool? Haha, look, I pulled the "u r stupid" card in response to something. That means I'm the smart guy here.
>I understand that everything I've read from you is just various ways of rephrasing "there's technically no such thing as free agency" then bending semantics around to defend against people who call you out for even thinking this subject is worthy of any further conversation. it's not a hard concept to grasp, everybody here already gets the difference between free agency and the illusion of will, there's just nowhere to go after getting that, it's literally a pointless argument that's only being made so you can stroke your brain's imaginary cock
This is confirming my belief that you are bad at reading. Firstly, the thread's topic was a discussion on free will, which you should understand by now that it's a distinct concept from just will, unless you're just pretending to here. Then a guy responds to someone by saying how free will exists, and determinism is a meme or whatever. I respond by saying that he's wrong. You and that guy then start saying how apparently that I'm wrong by saying nonsense. Now you're saying that you're agreeing with me, and I'm the one talking about a worthless subject? If it was worthless, I wouldn't have to make people like you and him understand it. Not to mention that it was the topic of the thread in the first place, I didn't start the discussion. And the topic of the existence of free will can still be applied in our reality, and we can change how we think about concepts such as responsibility.

>Explain why you and that other guy are arguing with me then?
I don't know why the other guy is arguing with you, I didn't read his posts (or your replies to them, sorry, I couldn't care less about the masturbatory conversation you were having with yourself), my comment was simply that the illusion of free will is just as real as anything else we experience, therefore this entire conversation is retarded
believing that the discussion of free will is retarded is a perfectly valid view in the discussion of free will, but I have a feeling you didn't post this thread with the intent of talking about free will, you just expected everyone to agree with your completely non-controversial surface level view that humans don't have a magical control over the universe, and that's why all your posts are seething paragraphs with 10 quotes each where you just repeat yourself for hours

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Hes not wrong. Determinism has no application to reality. Free will is a characteristic of most humans and even if you dont call it that, you exist in a society that will assess your actions as your own and a universe that will create consequences for your actions. If you choose to get fat, you will get fat.

>my comment was simply that the illusion of free will is just as real as anything else we experience, therefore this entire conversation is retarded
It's not as real anything else we experience, though, because we can dissect it and explain why it's not true. It's not like looking at a rock, touching a rock, and saying "yeah, that's a rock". It's as real as anything else. But the concept of free will isn't as real as anything else even within our perception of reality.
>believing that the discussion of free will is retarded is a perfectly valid view in the discussion of free will, but I have a feeling you didn't post this thread with the intent of talking about free will, you just expected everyone to agree with your completely non-controversial surface level view that humans don't have a magical control over the universe, and that's why all your posts are seething paragraphs with 10 quotes each where you just repeat yourself for hours
I'm not the one who posted the thread, for one. And you say I expected people to agree with my view, implying that people disagreed, then call it non-controversial? You don't even know what you're saying anymore, you're just using buzzwords like 'seething' and hyperbole.
It does have an application to reality, though. The reasons why society inflicts punishment upon those who do wrong is because of concepts like retribution and removal from society. If there wasn't a possibility for them to do anything else other than what they did, retribution is pointless. However, punishment is still valid to remove people from society, so that they don't commit any further crimes. That's just an example of an application to reality you can make. The choosing to get fat and then becoming fat is fair enough, but determinism means that there is no point in scorning those who are fat, and the only point in mocking them is if it inflicts so much shame that they decide to get fit.

a. this isn't reddit where the most obvious zero-effort observations such as yours get upboated
b. this much dedication to a Jow Forums thread + this level of incel rage = seething

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