/hpg/ - Headphone General

Idol trash here. What's your okazu like, user?
Good OP.

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I looked at youtube reviews. Just wanted to ask about opinions of anons that had them already.

>Good OP.
>genz poster and footfags not allowed itt

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Am I allowed here?

What's your opinion on genz and footfags Mister pseudotrip?

>asking Idol Trash to actually show some surface awareness and not like some irc eggdrop chatbot programmed by a kid 20 years ago.

Wait, why did the other thread get 404'd?
/hpg/ was so much better when it was all just footfags discussing headphones in peace. Then mods had to sperg out and ruin it all because clearly a peaceful, productive thread is seemingly forbidden on Jow Forums.

Anyway, redpill me on electrostatic headphones. Exactly, in what way do they differ from "conventional" ones, and why are they so expensive compared to them?

>footfags not allowed itt
>good op
Idol trash you disappoint me.

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Not technology related.

>Wait, why did the other thread get 404'd?
OP tried to false flag as a footfag but forgot to switch IPs beforehand which got the thread deleted with his posts after he got banned. consequentially he has dropped his bullshit "neutral" pastebin stance and is now blatantly anti-footfag

weasels.

>Wait, why did the other thread get 404'd?
Because the same retard who made current OP posted porn on that other thread and he also was the OP of that thread so when the mods deleted all his posts the whole thread got nuked.
That guy probably got banned for what he did so current thread is made by a ban evader meanwhile there's another concurrent /hpg/ thread that actually predates this one and is more likely to survive if mods decide to prune one.

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I read footfags as the foothater.
Tired, making mistakes.

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Electrostatic are garbage. Be glad you can’t afford em.

mods are soyboys lmao

I WANT FEET

I can afford them and looking to get some new cans in that price range, that's why I'm asking. Anyway, what's EXACTLY garbage about them? Soundstage? Frequency range? Requiring a shitton of power to be driven?

You are forgiven Idol Trash.

Me too, but let's wait for the waters to calm down a bit.

What price range, Stax?

>Me too, but let's wait for the waters to calm down a bit.
You're smart I'll follow you.

>Anyway, what's EXACTLY garbage
They need a dedicated amplifier because they're not like standard headphones. These amps have no measurements and their impact on sound is unknown.
The cheaper amps seem to have a lot of clipping on higher volumes and the better ones are locked behind huge prices.

Electrostatics have great FR, however they lack bass impact. Low distortion, soundstage is good and they have a very pleasant treble. New Lambdas are absolutely shit-tier unless you get the L700.
L300 have uncomfortable pads, can't seal for shit (lower bass than even the HD600) and at best slightly better than mid-fi alternatives.
Older models are very interesting however since they have none of these issues and can be found very cheap if you look hard enough.

Electro stats are for people who like treble

Magnetic planars are for people who like bass

Dynamic drivers are for people who hate everything or are poor.

I was thinking about spending quite a bit, but not more than ~1500€. I was interested in electrostatic since I had never heard about them before, but I need to make sure they are not a meme (or at least, not a bad meme).

Thanks for the info. So, if they are, indeed, a meme, the ones that grabbed my attention the most are the HD800 and the Focal Elar. I listen mainly to classical, so a large soundstage is definitely appreciated. I'm still researching other models meanwhile, but I'll be thankful for more info and recommendations.

>Electrostatics have great FR
As a technology it naturally has the potential for a great FR but many stax have that shitty weeb tuning with upper mids emphasis and tuned down bass which makes them unsuitable for a lot of music which is inacceptable for multi grands $ worth of headphone. At that price range I expect headphones with midrange that doesn't sound wonky.

The HD800 is the best classical headphone in that price bracket.

I hate Sennheisers for the vast majority of my albums but even I will admit that HD800s blow anything else out of the water for classical.

I've never heard the Elear, but the Clear and the Utopia both lack the sort of soundstage you'd get from HD800s.

They seem more suited to being all around headphones as opposed to being great for any specific genre.

HD600 or HD650 for rock music.
Mostly hard rock, blue rock, Britpop and abit matel/

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>Magnetic planars are for people who like bass
Said the guy who hates bass. All the good basshead headphones are dynamic.

just fyi there is an hd800 owner here who shits on STAX so people will be more likely to buy his headphone because they are the direct competitor. if you want actual subjective impressions from someone who has heard ever kilobuck headphone under the sun just read taco's impressions

you are asking for trouble if you ask for help on expensive cans on /hpg/ when very few people here have ran the gamut

reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/88tc72/how_has_your_taste_in_sound_signature_evolved/dwn8qbz/

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everyone including me is retarded how hard is it to have one thread

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The electrostatic diaphragm element is electrically charged, and the stators surrounding the diaphragm generate a voltage attract and repel the sound element to create a sound. This is in contrast to electrodynamic headphones(coil or planar) that run a time-varying current through a magnetic field to generate motion.
A weakly conductive coating is applied to charge the membrane, as well as allow the membrane to recharge somewhat expediently if it hits the stator.

Ideally, an electrostatic membrane is driven evenly over its surface. This would enable a fairly even frequency response over a broader range of frequencies.

>price
The economy of scale is one of the more significant factors. These are highly specialized in production.

Both are incredibly boring for anything heavy.

I wouldn't say they are a meme, electrostatics are still much better in my opinion than other alternatives. You just need to audition them beforehand and know enough about how they work.
HD800s are good but you need to mod them (SDR) otherwise the treble is trashy. They're not very bassy neither. Try to buy a used/chipped pair (~600€) and avoid getting them at MSRP.
If it's soundstage that you're after, I think they'd be fine.

But do look for used Stax around you, there are insane deals to find.
Measurements of electrostatics are often fucked because of the atrocious sealing. I think the tuning is fine if you get a proper one.
Get the Massdrop HD6XX. It's a cheaper HD650.
Difference between both of them don't really matter.

>Focal/HD800
I hope you enjoy EQ, because you're gonna need a lot of it.

Paws when?

The Elear is great all-around except for the upper-mid dip. Good bass, clearly defined treble, etc.

Well, stop complaining and contribute to the discussion.

I see, but to be honest the guy you linked sounds more like a salesman than an actual happy consumer, so I'd take that opinion too with a tiny grain of salt.

Never modded a headphone, but was gonna try it out eventually, so I'll look after it.

Why exactly? Are they both that unbalanced?

The electrostatic diaphragm element is electrically charged, and the stators surrounding the diaphragm generate a voltage attract and repel the sound element to create a sound. This is in contrast to electrodynamic headphones(coil or planar) that run a time-varying current through a magnetic field to generate motion.
A weakly conductive coating is applied to charge the membrane, as well as allow the membrane to recharge somewhat expediently if it hits the stator.

Ideally, an electrostatic membrane is driven evenly over its surface. This would enable a fairly even frequency response over a broader range of frequencies.

>price
The economy of scale is one of the more significant factors. These are highly specialized in production.

friendly reminder that nekomimi anime girls with headphones are technology
>the guy you linked sounds more like a salesman
he owns sennheiser, zmf, focal, audeze, stax, and other brands but he has his favorites like anyone else

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>I see, but to be honest the guy you linked sounds more like a salesman than an actual happy consumer, so I'd take that opinion too with a tiny grain of salt.
tacos is one of the dac whisperers too. A grain of salt? nuke it from orbit it's the only way to be safe.

I have some old broken headphones which I forgot about that I want to fix.

Problem:
I plug them in and barely hear anything. If I crank the volume up then I can barely make out a muffled sound.

Question:
What's the most likely issue? I'm assuming it's a faulty cable. If that's the case then could it help to just cut 1/3 off the wire and resolder the 3.5mm jack? Is it a good idea to try that in case it's just a portion of the cable?

Where can I buy a new cable to solder into my headpones?

Post model and make.

What model is that, first of all?

>tacos is one of the dac whisperers too
amps yes, dacs not really. I have spoken with him on the subject and I don't think he's shy about it either

Listening to my Beyerdynamic DT880 is giving me a headache after 5 minutes every time, of course the volume isn't loud enough to give me a headache. I seem to perceive a very faint background tinnitus like sound, and after ten minutes it feels like my ears are being punctured.
Is it a bad DAC/AMP or is it a "feature" of the headphones.

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>dac whisperers
What the fuck? What is this sorcery?

>Why exactly? Are they both that unbalanced?
Yes. Good luck.

Technics RP-F880

I didn't mention it because it seems pretty niche. But apparently my dad bought them for 200 Euro when he was visiting Germany (this was years ago).

>Yes
No. The vast majority of owners use them without EQ. The only people who complain about HD800 treble are on SBAF and trolling /hpg/.

>Technics RP-F880
reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/report/hp/technics-rp-f880.php

>The only people who complain about HD800 treble
are you really this out of touch with reality?

>are you really this out of touch with reality?
The only people out of touch with reality is those who think all HD800 owners are unhappy with their headphones. Most have never even seen a PEQ.

Alright, you could TRY resoldering the cable, although bear in mind that this is merely a suggestion, I've never done it myself.
As for cables, you could get one from a local shop or try on Ebay.
In case resoldering still doesn't fix the issue, however, I wouldn't know what to do next.
Anyway, detachable cables it is for future purchases, I hope.

>reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/report/hp/technics-rp-f880.php
This is the first result on google, yeah. I'm not sure how these frequency range reports are supposed to be helpful to me in fixing my headphones. Can you explain?

I don't even know what to say to you if you want to disregard the incredible amount of subjective impressions that say otherwise. you don't have proof that the majority haven't seen an EQ. on the other hand there are many many impressions of the HD800.

actually I do know what to say to you: fuck off gen z user. I'm done arguing

>unironically using google

He was implying, by linking this in a passive aggressive manner, that a headphone with that much bass, treble rolloff and upper mid emphasis is not worth repairing and that you should throw this away.

tacos is fucking retarded when it comes to DACs. he's on the discord frequently, and is very stupid.

>he's on the discord frequently, and is very stupid.
heavy discord members are all very stupid

>is very stupid.
still 10000x more qualified than you to have an opinion, both academically and experience wise

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>memed myself into buying a DAP
>bought a Fiio X5 III bundled with ATH MSR7

I haven't tried the DAP yet, but the MSR7 is pretty good, I definitely see why this is a memed pair. The cups are terribly shallow, but it's not too uncomfortable, and most importantly it does sound pretty damn good.

That said, for now I'm not sold on the DAP, as far as usability go. It runs like ass and take ages to scan my ~70GB of music.

>fuck off gen z user
That's not me. I do agree you're an idiot though.

>magic DAC retard more qualified to say anything

>experience wise
experience without wisdom and critical thinking literally means nothing
there are programmers with "decades" of experience writing CRUD shit and others with 5 years working with machine learning. Which do you think is actually worth a good salary?
tacos is just an ideal drooling customer

>experience without wisdom and critical thinking literally means nothing
good thing he is a neuroscientist with multiple degrees and wrote his phd on how inaudible sounds can help with visual tracking, eh? I guess that means nothing compared to your opinions which are worth something, right?
I remember when I was 10 and thought I was qualified to have an opinion on life

>Anyway, detachable cables it is for future purchases, I hope.
I'm actually planning on installing this 3.5mm panel mount. I wanted to get a formal diagnosis from this thread though. How do I find decent cables online? I'm not sure what keywords to use when searching.

The headphones apparently cost 200 Euro. I want to fix them so that my aging mom has some decent headphones to listen through. I'm not financially well off so it's definitely worth it. Thanks for explaining his passive aggressiveness.

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>Measurements of electrostatics are often fucked because of the atrocious sealing.
There isn't anything to measure besides pad springing and leakage anyway. Mainstream electrostatic design would yield a perfect flat response below 500Hz otherwise. That also misses certain other issues likely to appear in amateur measurements.

>Frequency range?
The high frequency response is usually fairly extended, low frequency response depends on combating leakage.
In real-world use, the slew is not bound to be an issue.
>Requiring a shitton of power to be driven?
Power requirement is low, efficiency is not much lower than that of a moving coil. They are sickeningly insensitive, hence the specialized high-voltage equipment.

I would suggest that their specialization creates a mystique around them, greater than whatever value the headphone had in themselves.

I would have sooner suggested equalization to dial in your preference. Pick the most comfortable headphone, and along other personal criteria.

The vast majority of owners are idiots who leave fidelity on the table.

look at this faggot getting mad people are insulting his friend lmao

>Mainstream electrostatic design would yield a perfect flat response below 500Hz otherwise.
you are forgetting about diaphragm resonance
I defend the things and people that need to be defended because I try to have a reasonable opinion, fuck me right?

>good thing he is a neuroscientist with multiple degrees and wrote his phd on how inaudible sounds can help with visual tracking, eh? I guess that means nothing compared to your opinions which are worth something, right?
If you're going with appeal to authority then this guy would get fucking gangbanged until he bled to his death from his anus by the olive, welti, toole and ethan winer crowd. I have never seen him back up any argument with actual science.

>If you're going with appeal to authority
oh no, I'm just shitting on your pathetic sense of perceived authority. taco is taco, take his opinions or leave. take every opinion with a grain of salt, for sure. however, I can confidently claim that your opinions are shit if you believe you are even remotely qualified to hold them. leave those opinions to the big boys like winer and shut your mouth :)

No, I will not shut my mouth and I will keep on pissing you off more until you leave /hpg/. It seems to do the job because you're already resorting to smiley, the first expression of butthurt.

hmm, hasn't happened yet and I've been here for a few years so we'll see about that!

Fucking faggots arguing over nonsense

I had lumped them together thinking about pads, but fundamental motion is usually below that of the pad. That would usually amount to a couple of dB at most.
I wasn't finished either. There are errors much larger in scale from the shaping of the pinnae, in addition to the stiffness and leakage issues that sometimes emerge in real life.

>I remember when I was 10 and thought I was qualified to have an opinion on life
Anyone can have an opinion on life. You can't refute that.

>consequentially he has dropped his bullshit "neutral" pastebin stance
You're probably referring to me. I was not the OP of that thread.

what a stupid waste of a post. yes, there are as many opinions as there are assholes. and every single time I injure myself I will go to the doctor over the basket weaver when it comes to getting advice.

>will go to the doctor over the basket weaver
Homeopath or actual practitioner? Asking the tacos of the world for advice is like trying to cure cancer by drinking sugar water. Literally the same thing, the exact same mindset drives the sort of people who believe in audio voodoo to also do things like drink sugar water and believe it's medication. It's the same inability to think.

don't go trying to compare someone with an open mind to someone who like michael fremer who has a levitating turntable and believes in $10,000 cables. it makes your argument look like shit.

You're mistaking knowledge with opinion. You also sound like you'd be easy to manipulate. Develop your critical thinking skills or else you're going to find yourself falling for retarded shit. You shouldn't trust someone just because they're holding a clipboard.

Also start capitalizing the first words in sentences, you look like a devolved primate.

The analogy is more on point than yours. There's actually many more people in this world who believe in things like homeopathy than people who believe or care about $10k cables.
All of this comes from the same madness, it's just a matter of degree of madness.

>You're mistaking knowledge with opinion.
and you are mistaking opinions as fact.
>You also sound like you'd be easy to manipulate.
no, I'm even more skeptical than you and take far less at face value than you do
dude is a neuroscientist that works with signals and the brain and you want to tell me he's no different from your local chinese herbal medicine dealer?

>dude is a neuroscientist
[citation needed]

>and you are mistaking opinions as fact.
No I'm not and you can't prove otherwise.

>dude is a neuroscientist
theconversation.com/how-neuroscience-is-being-used-to-spread-quackery-in-business-and-education-30342
theguardian.com/science/2008/feb/16/neuroscience
newstatesman.com/culture/books/2012/09/your-brain-pseudoscience-rise-popular-neurobollocks
The only thing that actually matters is the fruit of the person's work, not his "credentials". You are what you make, not your title. In tacos's case, whatever he has shown in public does not inspire confidence in him being anything but neurobollocks.

he has posted pictures before, I'm too lazy to sift through a redditor's posts.
>In tacos's case, whatever he has shown in public does not inspire confidence in him being anything but neurobollocks.
ask him yourself and argue with him instead of slamming someone for their opinions that you don't even know what they are in the first place. you don't have the balls to do that though, you would prefer to post anonymously

reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/7twrbr/what_we_hear/dth0n2b/
>This is just plain false. On the contrary, YOU are the one spreading dangerous claims. You can't just drop scientific articles and measurements down and present yourself as an authority to know all that is possible about what each person can and can't do. Why aren't the scientists themselves making these claims? Because it is dangerous. Why are we even continuing doing scientific research if we know everything already? Why would we be doing replication studies of previously done experiments? It is exactly because we don't know 100% for certain all circumstances and trying to explore every possibility is what the pursuit of scientific research is about.
>And on the opposite end, when you present your data as an authority, new people entering will also take that and parrot it without even understanding when scientific findings do and don't apply. And again, this is a serious problem in our society as a whole, not just this hobby. People are quick to take bits of research, often out of context, and then present them as "truths" that then others carry on and continue to spread.

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Come on, don't act like the gen z user. Quoting a random reddit DAC whisperer wasn't a good idea to begin with. Drop the argument and go back to discussing headphones-related issues.

wtf is going on in this thread.
Let's talk headphones ffs.
Here's a suggestion: Sennheiser HD600.

if this isn't headphone related then I don't know what is. are we not allowed to question the legitimacy of measurements now? is that off topic? or is it just cognitive dissonance that makes you want to shift away from the topic. I guess it's ironic that I coined the term "dac whisperer" here and it gets used to slam someone I am trying to defend who doesn't even believe in the audibility of dacs in the first place.

you started it all faggot