Alright Jow Forums, you only need to do one thing for me. Convince me to like Ruby. How is it better than python?

What do you mean 'magical'? Pretty much everything these days is magic compared to C or just straight assembly.

As an example, the input statements don't really allow you to see anything specific about what you're importing from where, although it may just be that I lack a deeper understanding of how the language functions. Plus the way it writes seems almost like English to me, whereas in python you can definitely feel you're writing code.

Import* sorry.

Python is way more magical and less regular, to be perfectly honest, regardless of how much the opposite is parroted by proponents of Python.

Look through a few chapters of any advanced Python book like say Fluent Python by L. Ramalho, and you'll see that Python has a lot of magic as well. For example, x + y has very different performance characteristics from x.__add__(y) because the interpreter does a ridiculous amount of arcane bullshit in the first case. Same thing regarding the reason why you're supposed to use str(x) instead of x.__str__() . It makes Python rather ugly because of how many methods have special status as far as the interpreter is concerned.

This comment is exactly what I was looking for. So essentially the languages are comparable and I'm bitching because the syntax just feels weird is the only problem, yes? Python was my first language, so this may be why. I'll read the book. Thanks for the input.

It's simple. Ruby is actually simpler and more consistent than Python. See . Especially since Python has shit hacked on like lambdas and OOP, while Ruby had a cohesive design from the start.

In Ruby, 'require' is for loading from a library where ruby is set up to look, while 'require_relative' looks for the library relative to the current directory.

>better than python

>sysadmins
Why would anyone use Python over bash/shell? You have to import a module just to glob.

Sysadmins use shit like Chef and Capistrano, which are written in Ruby.

Ruby is very powerful, moreso than Python. The metaprogramming in Ruby is much simpler and Ruby has a lot of power giving you the ability to create your own DSL, which is why Ruby is popular for certain things, especially in the sysadmin space, such as used in building in configuration and deployment stuff.

Ruby begin sane perl and pretty lisp

If you're learning Ruby out of curiosity, I'd actually suggest learning a Smalltalk dialect instead if you're fine with learning a more obscure language. It's the main language that inspired Ruby, and it's basically "more ruby than ruby" in terms of differences from Python.

It has even more of the features that supposedly make ruby "magical", but is still noticeably simpler than Python or Ruby as a language.

Ofc, If you want to learn Ruby because of RoR, learn Ruby + RoR. More generally, the best way to get stuff done is to pick a library ecosystem first and then the language you want to use it from rather than the other way around. But learning languages different from what you are used to is good for learning. If you've learned something like Haskell, Smalltalk, and C reasonably well, you can pretty much learn any new language in days as every language is somewhere inbetween these three.

>> If you've learned something like Haskell, Smalltalk, and C reasonably well, you can pretty much learn any new language in days as every language is somewhere inbetween these three.

I'd also add any Lisp dialect like scheme/racket to that list, solving problems by extending your language is also a very powerful mind-expanding idea.

They're both very dynamic languages, with huge numbers of keywords and commands in the base language, comprehensive standard libraries, and rediculously large numbers of third party libraries. Both are multi parigdim to a fault, and allow a developer to mix styles even when they shouldn't. Both have serious shortcomings in runtime speed. Both have issues with compatibility and version dependency with the standard third party library tools.

Bottom line is, you should learn survival skills in both, because they are widely enough used you'll likely encounter both at work.

If you're looking for differences, think of medieval Christian sects trying to kill each other because they couldn't agree on the day to celebrate Easter. Both groups will go on for hours about the differences, and about how the other group is dead wrong and going to hell. To an outside observer, there are no significant differences, and the followers are all insane.

>Both have issues with compatibility and version dependency with the standard third party library tools.
What's wrong with pip and venv? Far better than the shit Ruby has.

Still shit fest Python 2 vs 3 libs

no? just create py2 or py3 venv and you are all set. this aint js that you need leftpad deps. faggot.

venv is great, if you only install once, and never update it. BUT the entire stop is a shit show for updates, or keeping complex environments uniform across many systems. The main culprit here is pip, which is nearly unusable on a long running production system without venv.

I really do wish ruby, and every other scripting language ever, had venv. It really is fantastic.

you shouldn't have to do that just to be able to use a language

not that i care i only use python for science and spyder does all the ugly work for me

given other options, neither python nor ruby are appropriate for large scale projects
where both of them shine is small

They can also use stuff like ansible which is python

Yes, and theoretically communism works.

>Convince me to like Ruby.
no.
>How is it better than python?
it's not.

>perl6 >= perl5 >= python > ruby > php > js

Official support for JIT in 2.6, instead of needing some 3rd party shitty hack

Chef is a shit. Ansible is superior #1

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Literally can't type 1 command. Kys

It's a better Perl.

I have already worked with RoR and my next position focuses heavily on it, I just need to talk myself into liking ruby more than python in order to not feel like I'm going to hell daily. I was curious as to the utility of diving further into it and learning specifics, best practices, but likely I will pick these up at work, as I only have a year or so experience with ruby and rails.

Properly OOP
No whitespace syntax
Actually has proper typing
Lambda blocks, lambda blocks everywhere
Brilliantly simple iterations
Actually has proper OOP class systems, unlike Python which has a shitty interpreter hack
Actually has threading, unlike GLOBAL LOCK MY SHIT UP

>perl6 >= perl5
Opinion discarded.

There's nothing magical about Ruby.
Everything is an object. Most function calls on objects will operate on copies of the object and return the mutated state, but not modify the original. This is where the ! operator plays, which means "No, mutate *this* object, not a copy"
Ruby also has implicit returns, so whatever the last evaluation in a function is will be what it returns. If you ever see functions that just end with a variable name that implicitly means "Return this".

Ruby's biggest problem is that it aliases the shit out of a dozen functions that all do the exact same thing, which is nice from a writing standpoint ("it makes more sense to say it this way") but makes it kind of a pain in the ass when learning because you might not know that arr.each_with_index is the same ass arr.each do |i, x| { }

>Actually has proper typing
lmao, what? Having an OO hierarchy doesn't mean "proper typing". At least python3 supports actual gradual typing. And even that's put to shame by perl6's type system.

>Actually has threading, unlike GLOBAL LOCK MY SHIT UP
and its /still/ the slowest of the dynamic languages.

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There are fundamental primitive types and you can tell what they are at any time, it has proper typing as much as Java does in that respect.

>and its /still/ the slowest of the dynamic languages.
Yes, because nobody has come along and written CPython and said "LOOK ITS STILL PYTHON I DON'T CARE IF IT'S ACTUALLY C CODE"
Actual, genuine Python is slower than horsepiss. The only reason it has any performance at all is because people who knew what they were doing wrote a bunch of C-extension libraries for data scientists to use. It didn't make Python any less shit.

Why do you idiots feel so passionately about this shit? I started reading this thread and the more dumb bullshit I read the more I realized that you are all just faggots who care way too much about shit that doesn’t matter. How about you just use the god damn language and shut up? Jesus fuck

Because this is what most of us do for a living, retard. You ever tried to discuss the minutia of cheeses with a professional chef? They'll cut your goddamn throat over the smallest thing.

Maybe you should try finding a passion sometime.

>ruby's problem is that it let's you do things multiple ways
>hurr perl5 is better than perl6
wanna know how I know you're meme'ing?

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it used to have a global lock, did they remove it in 2.6, and python has two good jits numba/pypy

No, Ruby's problem is that it lets you do the same thing in multiple ways with effectively the same syntax. Perl's MTOWTDI lets you do the same thing in multiple different *forms*.
I use both of them extensively. Perl for actual work because it's actually a fantastic language once you leave the C mindset, and Ruby because I find it much comfier for quick scripts. Having 7 function names that are literally identical is just a dumb idea, aliasing was just a piss poor design choice.

ploggingdev.com/2017/01/multiprocessing-and-multithreading-in-python-3/
CPython strictly only allows a single thread.

>it has proper typing as much as Java does in that respect.
Jesus Christ, please tell me you're joking. Why don't we lump in lisp with haskell while we're at it too then.

I can't even Rajeesh, I just can't even.

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Because they don't share that same quality. Ruby is a strongly, dynamically typed language. I know that probably hurts your pythonista brain to comprehend, but just try a little.
Everything is an object.
There are primitive types.
All objects are fully mutable, and do not have to retain their original type.
There is no weakly typed bullshit like python or javascript, such as x = "3"; y = 3 + x but there is implicit string conversion such as x = 3; y = "3" + "3" # yields "33"
Learn about the language before you get mad and try to insult your way out of it

You’re being paid to deliver a solution, not sperg out over unimportant distinctions between different implementations. It’s a tool and that’s it

Fuck off back to management

It is a poor craftsman that does not understand his tools.

>your pythonista brain
nice try, but I'm a haskeller dipshit, I'm well aware of how types work, and have used ruby professionally before. Nothing you've said, or can say, will magically make ruby a sound statically typed language. End of story.

If we're gonna debate about which dynamic midget is taller, like I said, perl 6 reigns supreme cause it has quasi-dependent types, and python now has optional typing. Meanwhile, ruby has reasonably functioning objects unlike shit-tier JS, whoop-de-fuckin-doo.

I understand my tools, I just choose to use them rather than jerking odd and expending energy obsessing over unimportant details. Yeah it works differently, just use it and shut it.
>n-no this totally matters

>statically typed
It's not.
I very clearly said it was dynamically typed.
But it is STRONGLY typed. Python is not. Javascript is not. Perl sure as fuck isn't, Perl doesn't have any concept of types outside of "this is a scalar. Is it a number, a string, or a reference?"
Perl6 has a more well defined typing system, but it also breaks everything that made Perl good by doing so.

Well, go use them then. Why are you wasting time yelling at people who want to discuss the specifics of their tools?

I'm not so sure Python's position is so strong in that market.
I'm a data shitter and the company has outright stated it wants to move away from Python as fast as feasible. All the data scientists I know are extremely ambivalent about Python for anything beyond simple prototypes, basically because the type system shits the bed when Python starts interacting with C/C++ libraries.

You guys need to stop making this exact same fucking thread all the goddamn time. It's pointless. The choice of Ruby vs Python ultimately boils down to two factors:

1. Do you need the language in specific to use a certain library/framework, or to collaborate with others who are using the language?
2. Personal preference

Both languages have a similar feature set. They're both duck typed object oriented languages with an easy to use syntax and a wide variety of libraries. One of the biggest differences in the languages ultimately boils down to programming philosophy. Python takes the "there's only one way to do it, and that way is the correct way" approach, while Ruby takes the "anything goes" approach.

In many ways, Ruby just feels "fun" to program in, and I would recommend it on that reason alone. If you don't enjoy it though, don't program in it. You'll probably find more people you can work with in Python.

>Python
>Object oriented
Pythons object system came from a bad interpreter hack and they just kind of ran with it, it's kind of a big stretch to call it object oriented.

agreed. python in "data science" is a fad, but it'll most likely move to something like julia or go instead of ruby. Though really, they should all be using an ML language of some kind. If F# were slightly less dependent on Microsoft tools, it'd be a shoe in since everyone's afraid of Haskell and think ocaml is old-school or some shit. F# is actually pretty damn nice for interacting with data sources due to its type providers.

! isn't an operator. It's a syntactic convention in method names. It SHOULD be enforced, though.

>Python takes the "there's only one way to do it, and that way is the correct way" approach, while Ruby takes the "anything goes" approach.
Thats totally wrong. Python at a surface level glance seems to be a very simple and straight forward language, but its not, hence the constant search on stackoverflow for the 'pythonic' way of doing something. Ruby succeeded perfectly at the 'principal of least surprise' meaning you rarely have to look up docs on Ruby as once you understand the language it will ALWAYS work the way you expect it

>weakly typed bullshit like python or javascript
Obviously you have never programmed in Python, because you would know that it's just as strongly typed as Ruby.

Much as it looks ugly as sin, everything in Python is an object, just as in Ruby. You can pass messages to ints and floats just the same.

no jobs

That's the advantage of Ruby's "anything goes" style. Everything is the way you would expect it to be. Different people expect different things. Some people would think to ask for an array's length, others its size. Ruby says both work perfectly fine. Sometimes you don't know what methods an object has available to it, so you open a repl and send it the message :methods, and it gives you a list, exactly as you'd expect.

Python's "there's only one way to do it" philosophy means that you are expected to do things the correct way, and if you don't know what that correct way is, you better damn well Google it. Don't know what methods an object supports? Well apparently the answer is the dir() function. And then you'll realize most methods begin and end with two underscores, and you're supposed to use a free function to invoke them instead of outright calling something like __len__().

You could literally replace the word ruby with python here and everything you said would still be accurate.

can't we just get along and hate the gophers

it's not, don't use it

>Much as it looks ugly as sin, everything in Python is an object, just as in Ruby
except an object should know what its methods are, in Ruby you just .method and now you know every method it has as well as all its ancestor methods.

But in Python you get __huuur__() littered everywhere because the Python object system is really nothing but a cheap unix hack

and actuaries, data miners, data analysts, gamedev scripters, scriptkiddies, testers, mechanical engineers, mathematicians, office workers, AutoCAD users, etc

python scripts your erotic VNs, checkmate ruby trannies

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you actually find jobs on it

very sane response

Fuck off James, I was happy when you were gone.

Both deprecated. Javascript is much faster, has a much more active community, and it's not dead.

It is a lovely language, I stopped caring about Python all-together when I started to ace Ruby. Far more consistent and pleasant syntax. One consideration however is that Python has usable libraries that Ruby does not have, and vice versa.
So I guess Python will still prevail in doing babby AI stuff, but things like Ruby's Nokogiri gem makes it a killer choice for webscraping and stuff.

/w this shit if you timetravel back 8 years youll be all set

this is a good thread.
I'm js, php, now some python in hopes of Flask, Django or some data stuff(py2)
i just wish i had some experience with ruby to fully digest what's being said here.
i have 'Beginning Ruby' -Cooper, Apress. i think i'll crack it open.

i think it's important to note some respected universities have included ruby in their curriculums. but, i had always heard the ruby community was still in need of some leadership and maturation.

Ruby's value becomes evident once you know functional programming and leverage Ruby blocks.

ruby is used by chef

chef can use python among other things.

anything you can do in python,you can program chef to do automagically. That includes invoking python scripts.

It has a pretty logo