Is linux on the desktop btfo'd for all eternity?

Yeah, even the "desktop" version has material design

note this is only a demo:
nmcain.github.io/#desktop

Fuchsia seems dumb.
Why go the microkernel route?
What benefit do they think this will bring?
Why not just use plan9 and build a mobile interface ontop of it?
I just don't get it.

>plan9
Its based on dead tech. Google wants to start fresh with things like C++, Go, and Dart.

>Why go the microkernel route?
>What benefit do they think this will bring?
security.
Note that the below is from a Minix resource, but can apply to microkernel OSes as a whole:
>Monolithic operating systems (e.g., Windows, Linux, BSD) have millions of lines of kernel code. There is no way so much code can ever be made correct. In contrast, MINIX 3 has about 4000 lines of executable kernel code. We believe this code can eventually be made fairly close to bug free.
>In monolithic operating systems, device drivers reside in the kernel. This means that when a new peripheral is installed, unknown, untrusted code is inserted in the kernel. A single bad line of code in a driver can bring down the system. This design is fundamentally flawed. In MINIX 3, each device driver is a separate user-mode process. Drivers cannot execute privileged instructions, change the page tables, perform I/O, or write to absolute memory. They have to make kernel calls for these services and the kernel checks each call for authority.
>In monolithic operating systems, a driver can write to any word of memory and thus accidentally trash user programs. In MINIX 3, when a user expects data from, for example, the file system, it builds a descriptor telling who has access and at what addresses. It then passes an index to this descriptor to the file system, which may pass it to a driver. The file system or driver then asks the kernel to write via the descriptor, making it impossible for them to write to addresses outside the buffer.
more at wiki.minix3.org/doku.php?id=www:documentation:reliability

>Why not just use plan9 and build a mobile interface ontop of it?
as far as basing it on things, they did do that somewhat. Their microkernel, named Zircon, is based on Littlekernel, a little side project by one of the main Haiku devs.
github.com/littlekernel/lk

"linux on the desktop" is a fucking stupid meme. I use linux on my desktop. It works great. I don't care what other people use. If they want to use something else that's fine. Who gives a shit. Fuck off. Sage.

>main Haiku devs
I think you mean BeOS

still proprietary, fucktard

'Tech' doesn't die, and plan9 is more modern than many other OSs around.
The go programming language is an excellent fit for plan9 for example.

>Monolithic operating systems (e.g., Windows, Linux, BSD) have millions of lines of kernel code
The plan9 Kernel is tiny, has good performance, the code is easily readable and offers a lot of functionality.

The theory sounds nice, but how do they prevent trapping not becoming a massive overhead in and of itself?

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>is tiny
about as tiny as its hardware support ;)

It did that to itself long ago.

The reality. 1990's to 2010: ReactOS is a waste of time, they should help WINE.

2020 onward, Linux is a waste of time, they should help ReactOS.

Overhead has always been the main complaint with the microkernel design, but supposedly modern implementations are far less affected by this, particularly the L4 series.
I hear Google plans to use Fuchsia on smartphones as well, so clearly it must be minimized enough to run smoothly on those.
Furthermore, a point i've seen made in some academic papers on this is that at this point, the security advantages are good enough that we can afford to take a bit of a performance hit in exchange.

linux is btfo like your world, senpai

> the security advantages are good enough that we can afford to take a bit of a performance hit in exchange
When you’re talking about up to 30% performance penalties for a security fix the possible penalties of microkernels are probably less severe.

isnt reactos finished because its just an illegal windows 2000 leak

i don't think WINE developers want anything to do with it

That's almost the MIT license, dumbass.

Linux is a finished product though
ReactOS isnt.
ReactOS has no code from leaks that would be illegal.

yeah pretty much this

Spoken like a true idiot who has no idea what he is talking about;
>The reality. 1990's to 2010: ReactOS is a waste of time, they should help WINE.
ReactOS is based on wine and in fact both projects exchange code and grow from one another.
ReactOS is a research OS trying to recreate windows using wine code and wine is a compadibility layer used in linux,bsd,macOS,os\2 and other obscure OSes
>2020 onward, Linux is a waste of time, they should help ReactOS.
Linux and reactOS have nothing to do with one another and linux people do not care about a windows wannabe because they dont like windows.
Even if linux dies(all copies od sourcecode is burned and linus gets his head cut off)we can just change the kernel it really isnt a big deal.
>isnt reactos finished because its just an illegal windows 2000 leak
ReactOS isnt finished it was made from scratch, otherwise it would be illegal.
>i don't think WINE developers want anything to do with it
They do one project grows from the research the other one does using the wine code.

botnet

>still posting this shit since 2016
Meanwhile even Linaro have their own OS and still support Linux.

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>still posting this while the OS hasn't even been used in production

You're time is about to come lincuck.

>Linaro have their own OS
Its not for phones/desktops LOL

Its not for phones/desktops LOL
Fuchshia either. Even bigger LOL. Retard.

>Fuchshia either. Even bigger LOL.
>creates both a phone and desktop UI for the OS
>its not for phones/desktops
What did he mean by this?

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The dart will be used on android and ios. At this point a new OS would be a mistake, a change for the sake of change.

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are microkernels really that much slower?

Linux is such a poorly designed abomination that any theoretical speed difference goes out the window. Google devs struggled with reimplementing parts of Linux to increase performance specifically in Android. Source: I read this from an article before Fuchsia became public.

but the other kernels seen are even slower. does this mean literally every kernel is garbage?

also software is way worse. in 5 years we're going to see javascript kernels

Microkernel means I'm interested, beats Linux and could even beat Darwin.
Not sure about the platform, I'm in as long as it's open but it probably won't remain so under MIT. Perhaps many of the pitfalls Android falls into in regards to manufactures will be avoided.

I hate Android as a platform and I'm look forward to a fresh start on a new open platform. Android's aged API with 5 years of backwards comparability all for the sake of selling App Play store apps to 3rd worlders still running 4.4 because their devices don't get updates... Not to mention Java and the horrible multiplatform support for C and others. Even NeXT did better in' 95.

Interesting to see the Android dev team compete with Fusicha's team for relevance. Android has introduced Treble, Android Auto, a new official IDE, API "cleanups". Seems they wish to entrench Android into a permanent legacy position in order to scuttle Fusicha before it's even out.
As an expert from Cupertino, I suspect their efforts will keep Google's existing mobile offerings strong just long enough for Fusicha to come out and replace it...

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Has everyone forgotten Redox-OS?

>Google devs struggled with reimplementing parts of Linux to increase performance specifically in Android
With an ART overhead i call them dumb for blaming the kernel space for their shitty design and now they try to reinvent the wheel.

>Fusicha to come out and replace it...
Well, before shilling something, you should learn its name first. At this point Fuchsia is irrelevant compared to Android and android can use flutter as well.

>microkernel
it isn't even going to be the most successful microkernel
minix is already on every single modern intel machine (it runs on the intel IME)

I won't call that success.

So basically iOS at the driver level.

>kernel isn't written in rust
already deprecated and out of date

Can anything interesting be done with MINIX on IME, or is it totally useless?

With minix itself nothing, but having privilege escalation or manage several systems at once though the web view.

>many pitfalls Android falls into in regards to manufactures will be avoided.
>MIT
Yeah, no. It can only be worse than Android.

>Android's aged API with 5 years of backwards comparability all for the sake of selling App Play store apps to 3rd worlders still running 4.4 because their devices don't get updates.
What are you talking about? Android 6 is currently the oldest officially supported version. Support is always only available to the last 2 big versions prior to the current one. So they're literally supporting only versions up to 3 years old.
Only less than 15% of users are still on KitKat or older, and those are usually smartwatches or cheap tablets. Or as you've said, very poor people.
Some developers support older versions simply because it's either profitable or the app doesn't implement features which require newer versions.

"Sage" hasn't worked on Jow Forums for at least a decade now. In fact I doubt it was ever a real feature. Just something to make you feel better, like giving a youtube comment a thumbs down: doesn't do anything, but lets you feel like you're doing something. Except the thumbs down button used to work on youtube. I don't think sage ever worked here.

I never understood why we have these threads from time to time. It uses a microkernel, so what? Beside that I never saw an advantage of Fuchsia mentioned or why I should use it when it is finished.

>overhead
Didn't Android basically limit the number of background processes, anyway?

No, I'm using it to post right now faggot.

“Almost” being the keyword.

are you okay? sage works just fine lol

>advantage of Fuchsia
notlinux

>It uses a microkernel, so what?
see

if the OS receives proper software support for things like Adobe Suite or DAWs then I can really see myself dualbooting this alongside my distro.

>that license
There's a reason Google is shying away from the GPL.
They tried to control Android and ChromeOS by packaging apache, mit, but realized the couldn't change the kernel's license with contribution.

The Magenta Kernel used in Fuschia is actually forked from FreeBSD which proves how lenient permissive licenses like BSD/MIT/Apache.

Google can't make anything original at all they just build upon work.
That's why they landed on a cucked language to allow them to have their way.

They don't have to commit changes back and they don't have to redistribute source.

Fuschia doesn't even run on Arm fucktard.
It's x86 only right now.

It's another /v/tard episode hyping up cucked licenses because his ego got gangbanged by tux and android.

>Is linux on the desktop btfo'd for all eternity?
Do you realize this hasn't been released yet and most likely won't be any time soon?

This will not the first time that Linux is betrayed, Sony did 10 years ago when removing support of alternative OS on PS3.

And no, Linux will remain as an alternative for people that actually need it.

>The Magenta Kernel used in Fuschia is actually forked from FreeBSD
what are you talking about? the kernel (which is called zircon not magenta) was also built from scratch. what a shitty post

fuchsia.googlesource.com/zircon

github.com/fuchsia-mirror/zircon/tree/master/kernel/arch

>can't investigate things for himself
>uses retarded Jow Forums memes
Its time to go back

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I don't think so. It might be OK for mobile/embedded stuff but microkernels historically had problems scaling up and nothing so far suggests that Fuchsia is going to be any different.

Sage was never meant as a "thumbs down". It was meant as a polite way to post without bumping, in case you felt your contribution wasn't important enough for a bump.

Of course, Jow Forums attracted enough contrarian retards that it quickly came to mean "Fuck you, you don't deserve a bump." Much like how everyone now uses "(You)", except that DOES bump the thread.

Nope, it's based on littlekernel

Yes, plus desktops is a dying market.

1. It was renamed to Zircon brainlet.
2. In earlier versions when compiling it pulled in FreeBSD flags
I have images as proof on my other PC but next time the topic comes up I'll post them.

They clearly obfuscated the origin of their sources till they were migrated enough away from the base.

>Adobe Suite or DAWs
>on a touch OS
lolno.

Fuchsia is slated to replace Android and ChromeOS, not Linux or Windows. That's assuming it succeeds at all. Most of Google's research projects are abandoned after a few years and scrapped for parts.

and who made littlekernel? googlers. your point?

>Google can't make anything original at all they just build upon work.
That's how software development works in general. Shoulders of giants and all that jazz.

When's the last time you built anything from scratch in Assembly?

See >They clearly obfuscated
Are you going to post your irrefutable proof or not?

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No, retard. It was a personal project by Travis Geiselbrecht.
tkgeisel.com/
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Fuchsia

Nope, this guy made it
tkgeisel.com/
Don't believe me?
github.com/littlekernel/lk/blob/master/LICENSE

>Shoulders of giants and all that jazz.
In software development, we usually barely manage to stand upon each others feet. Shoulders are right out.

At first when I heard it was gonna be a microkernel I threw up in mouth a tiny bit, since I tend to think of QNX in embedded systems for vehicles. QNX has been a slow and buggy piece of shit since version 5, and I hated working on it.

However, upon further reading I found out that this new Zircon is derived from Little Kernel which was made by Travis Geiselbrecht, the same guy who did the Haiku OS kernel. This makes me feel a little better since the Haiku OS kernel code is incredibly clean and modular, and not some big slow clusterfuck like QNX.

Google better not fuck this up and they better provide an easy way to unload or strip out the billion and one chinkshit OEM driver modules.

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No it isn't dipshit. The license is a mix of bsd 3, MIT and Apache 2. All of which are approved by the fsf and Stallman.
So fuck off.

Imagine this as the basis for all mobile phones. Rob Pike became a soyboy so will prob never happen

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Better than fuschia. I run bare metal plan 9 on my t420 and everything works, even the wifi.