Gentoo Linux? Serious question. I see a lot of people saying it's a meme and not taking it as a mature distro. Ist really worth it for a Desktop OS used for work and "get the job done" tasks? I'm interested In becoming a Linux guru. My time's worth nothing so don't worry about that. If I have a goal, I'm really into it. Don't care about casual life... By the way, I'm not interested in any newbie shit like *buntu. I feel comfortable using Debian. Don't bother...
Also, I've got some programming experience with Perl & basics of C. Should I invest my time in something more modern like Python for scripting or dive deeply into C? Moreover, I'm into networking but never tried OpenWRT... Always be that lame guy using the web GUI of DD-WRT. Never tried Pi-hole as well... I heard that Kotlin is the new Java for Android development, that's also a interesting field...
Gentoo Linux? Serious question. I see a lot of people saying it's a meme and not taking it as a mature distro...
Other urls found in this thread:
wiki.gentoo.org
twitter.com
A-anyone?
>By the way, I'm not interested in any newbie shit like *buntu. I feel comfortable using Debian. Don't bother...
This. If it works for you - dont distrohop.
B-but I'd like to learn more about systemd/openrc and other init systems that i.e. Gentoo provides. I feel that one can learn a lot more about gcc flags and compile optimizations...
debian net iso
don't over think
hate systemd?
do something about it, yourself.
Thanks a lot, user. The two links look really useful!
Nevertheless, if I really want to deep dive into Gentoo, should I read the full handbook first or there's a shortcut? I know that easy means scam so I don't bother asking for an easy way.
>Ist really worth it for a Desktop OS used for work and "get the job done" tasks?
Yeah, it's fine if you don't enable installation of unstable packages by default.
Then try. It is simple.
Gentoo is great, though it's quite a timesink. I'd say that it being used "for work and get the job done tasks" depends on what you do. My computer work involves writing documents and making presentations, so almost anything can be a "work" distro.
That said, I love gentoo and my install has been stable as rock and there haven't been any real issues I was unable to solve myself. When people meme gentoo, they're referring to the lengthy and obtuse installation process. The real craft lies in tweaking your install and configuring it to your liking.
Like most things, if you are willing to put in the time then you will benefit.
Well, I used it for like a year as my only OS. Yes, once you install everything you need, it gets the job done. Did it really offer any advantage over other distros? Not really, I just wanted to be cool. Something really stimulates my autism about compiling everything in a terminal. I love it
I'd like to know if I have previous experience with Debian how hard it'd be to compile and configure the kernel without genkernel or should I stick with it during my first install? Also, is OpenRC better than systemd or other init systems for that matter? Is it worth it switching to systemd if I've already used to it? What's the main difference?
it's okay
portage is great but slow (not talking about compilation times, the manager itself is), it's stable (most of the time), compiling gives you flexibility, speed gains are inexistent (don't be fooled by that). i stopped using it on the last year or so, so some things might have changed.
not him, but will answer anyway
>how hard it is to configure the kernel
just include the correct fs drivers and you should have an at least bootable system. you won't get everything right on the first time though, probably.
>is openrc better than systemd
from a user perspective i don't think there's any difference.
>is it worth switching to systemd
if you mean using systemd on gentoo, i'd say not. a lot of the system is revolved around openrc.
Experiences with other distros matters less than knowledge of your hardware. If you're using gentoo then it's a waste to not configure your kernel and only use genkernel. Gentoo's biggest selling point is the granularity it offers you; why not take it?
Your first attempt in configuring the kernel will somehow be wrong (you'll have forgotten to include some drivers, something you compiled as built-in should have been a module, etc) and that's OK. Gentoo makes it very easy to recompile with different settings, or to boot with multiple kernel options available (you may want a genkernel all for troubleshooting if you are that worried).
>systemd
I'll give you an unpopular opinion and say that for the end-user, it's really all about preference. Systemd works well for the majority of people's use-cases just like OpenRC does.
However...
If you're using Gentoo then you might as well go all the way and use OpenRC. As says, it's pretty well integrated in the system & docs, so I see little reason in using systemd.
Genkernel doesn't configure shit, it only has more sane defaults than the non-bootable default config and does the notorious creation of compiling and copying the kernel, modules and initrd for you. You should still use menuconfig with genkernel.
>minimalist distros
>arch
>debian
>systemd, glibc and gnu coreutils are minimal
Even if you install debian netinst, installing something like xfce pulls in an enormous amount of unnecessary packages.
>gentoo
gentoo isn't minimal. it gives you the option to be minimal, but my system is certainly not minimal.
>dwm
awesome is superior
>implying firefox is minimal
netsurf is probably about as close as you're going to get to a minimalist web browser.
>feh
>sxiv
neither of these appear to support gif animation. pqiv seems like a decent alternative.
sxiv can play gif, you need to hit control + space to start it though, or you can run it with -a to automatically starts gifs.
I'd just like to interject for a moment. What you're referring to as Linux, is in fact, GNU/Linux, or as I've recently taken to calling it, GNU plus Linux. Linux is not an operating system unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning GNU system made useful by the GNU corelibs, shell utilities and vital system components comprising a full OS as defined by POSIX.
Many computer users run a modified version of the GNU system every day, without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events, the version of GNU which is widely used today is often called "Linux", and many of its users are not aware that it is basically the GNU system, developed by the GNU Project.
There really is a Linux, and these people are using it, but it is just a part of the system they use. Linux is the kernel: the program in the system that allocates the machine's resources to the other programs that you run. The kernel is an essential part of an operating system, but useless by itself; it can only function in the context of a complete operating system. Linux is normally used in combination with the GNU operating system: the whole system is basically GNU with Linux added, or GNU/Linux. All the so-called "Linux" distributions are really distributions of GNU/Linux.
You can use Gentoo with musl/uclibc + busybox + clang, so that wouldn't be GNU/Linux anymore.
Your memes won't work here stallman.
Fuck your pasta. People in this thread are very well aware of these facts. Linux is a fucking kernel but Gentoo prefers calling its Linux derivate/distribution simply Gentoo Linux and not Gentoo GNU/Linux like Debian and/or other autistic names.
The lengthy installation meme is a holdover from the old stage1 installs back in 2008
Current Gentoo
Mr.Robot.S03E09.stage3 cause there's no longer stage1 and stage2 anymore.
>you'll have forgotten to include some drivers, something you compiled as built-in should have been a module, etc.
How does one decide whether some driver should be built-in or used as a midule?
even with a fast CPU, installing all the software I want takes at least 6 hours.
Installing isn't hard, as long as you know what USE flags you want though.
Depends mostly on your hardware - consult the wiki first and general searches (if you run into issue) second.
>By the way, I'm not interested in any newbie shit like *buntu. I feel comfortable using Debian
>He's using debian
You're a fucking newbie, what are you talking about? Try a real distro you disgusting faggot.
is freedist software proprietary?
Gentoo user here, it's great for learning and once you have learned it will be great for your usage too.
Also go with the openrc version instead of systemd. Happy hacking user
I run gentoo on a vultur 1GiB RAM instance. Very easy to set up, no different than any physical installation (good vnc access & ability to add an arbitrary ISO to the VM's cd drive).
The great
- Disabled every other disk/network driver besides virtio stuff
- No initial ram disk = insanely fast boot
- Overlays
- Easy customization to prevent your OS from installing a pile of garbo you don't need (disable all sound/x11 features for starters)
The decent
- Compilations don't take as long as you'd expect, but it's still gunna take some time.
- Some daemons need extra configuration, sometimes it requires modification to the init scripts.
- Setting up docker was easy, just run this compatibility test script and recompile your kernel with the listed required changes.
The Bad:
- Gentoo Bugzilla is really hit or miss, tickets related to ebuilds might go unanswered for awhile. Even requesting an ebuild be unmasked for even stable arch takes time.
The ugly
samefag here. Nevermind, I can't think fo any ugly.
how much of a time sink is it once it's up and running though?
from what I read updates can take long if you don't update for a while, but other than that once you're comfortable with it is maintaining it really that time consuming?
I wasn't even aware that it's possible to boot without initrd. Is it easily achievable? You must've spent a lot of time tweaking your kernel.
Overlays?
Setting-up Docker needs recompiling your kernel with stuff you haven't previously enabled? Is it better to have thing built-in kernel or loading them as a separate modules?
Also, I guess that editing of config files is necessary for the sake of modification and tweaking/fine tuning purposes not because they're broken, r-right?
MX linux.
Should I start with a Virtualbox + Gentoo's .iso + wiki.gentoo.org
>I wasn't even aware that it's possible to boot without initrd. Is it easily achievable? You must've spent a lot of time tweaking your kernel.
You can build&install generic kernel configurations with initial ram filesystems, it's a single command to build & install a kernel with presets like lvm, luks, virtio whatever.
That said u still only need an initialramfs for doing extra steps to mount the root filesystem, such as accessing an encrypted partition. So I don't have one, but I'd need one on any of my physical hardware because I use LUKS on everything.
>Overlays?
It's a rough analogue to the arch user repos, but is also used by package developers so it's the same process to modify an existing package or make your own.
>Setting-up Docker needs recompiling your kernel with stuff you haven't previously enabled?
Maybe. I assume genkernels can include all these features for you, but in the case you build your own kernel, it can be extremely difficult to determine which options to enable on a specific kernel release, because the config names change & more are added often, esp for cgroups related stuff (the core of docker).
> s it better to have thing built-in kernel or loading them as a separate modules?
I don't think it matters. As long as you can boot the system, it's probably. The only module/builtin modification I make is if certain software specifically requires something builtin (it's usually well documented & extremely race occurrence).
>Also, I guess that editing of config files is necessary for the sake of modification
All (I think) files in /etc/ are manually merged on gentoo. It tells you what needs to be merged and you can decide to merge, keep, or discard. Most distros offer this. But in any case it's a pain to merge a lot of config files, especially hundred line bash scripts that control the daemon, you're getting into "modifying the package territory" imo.
You don't need the gentoo iso. You can use any linux install/livecd. I'd recommend grml because it has all the tools you'd ever want for sysadmin related tasks like fixing installs, but even ubuntu in live mode is totally acceptable.
And yes, the handbook is excellent. Every step is probably important either during immediate installation or later maintenance of your system, so double check before you skip anything.
Don't forget in the end it's just another distro, I use whatever I find works the best for my usecase; for example:
- I use ArchLinux on my workstation and laptop (might change this, but the installs have been from many years ago
- Recently, I had to set up a server quickly and don't really need anything custom or need to do anything strange no, so I used Debian.
- And like I said before, I use GRML as a livecd. Pretty solid, one of the best ones out there, not huge & has sane defaults.
Thanks, anons. I already got the courage to try no matter what. Now it's time to get my hands dirty.
Just do it. It's only a time sink if your hardware is old/slow. To actually learn stuff, don't be happy with default settings. Try out fancy stuff.
gentoo is ok, unless you need something new installed ASAP. otherwise, once you have your system going and mostly update it, no problem.
also you have a choice of udev and init system, and a lot of architectures are supported.
it's a good learning experience, but once you've figured it out, that feeling of it being "cool" will pass. then you'll notice how cumbersome it is:
- portage is slow, compiling is slow, you have to upgrade the kernel in a separate step after that
- you can't just try out a program real quick, installing something takes forever
- you have to be careful what you're installing, if you mix gtk and qt things you need to compile (and maintain) both toolkits.
- chromium takes 12 fucking hours to compile on a 3ghz wolfdale
so it will seem that you're just making things hard for yourself and you'll start looking for other distros. once you've done that you'll be missing the use flags and looking back at gentoo... but... no...
There are only a few programs that take a long time to compile. Mainly chromium (including all the derived project) and libreoffice.
You could just use the binary version or install firefox if the compile time really bother you( it was my case).
>time consuming
For you or for the PC? A lot of anons who've never used Gentoo before seem to think you need to patiently sit by your computer while it's compiling, unable to go do something else or even use the computer while it's compiling. This simply isn't true - the computer can compile just fine while you're sleeping/away/doing something else. Also, if you set PORTAGE_NICENESS to like 19, your computer should stay responsive while it's compiling, so you can still use it to post on Jow Forums or whatever.
As for effort on the part of the user (rather than the PC), maintaining Gentoo doesn't need to be time-consuming - it certainly isn't for me.
Just remember to update sometimes - if you don't update for months, things can get too messy for portage to handle by itself and you'll have to help portage work it all out. See, obsolete ebuilds don't stick around forever, so given that packages tend to depend on specific versions of other packages, it's likely that some of your severely outdated packages wouldn't have a straightforward upgrade path. It's all fixable with some effort, but it's probably better not to get your system into such a messy situation in the first place.
Why is Debian netinst on that list when Arch isn't? A minimal netinst install looks identical to a fresh Arch install. Is it just because of the AUR? You don't have to use it.
Be consistent and take Debian off the list.
A few years ago it felt like I was reinstalling windows every few weeks. I ended up trying various distros and would wipe and switch to new ones when I ran into annoying issues I felt could be handled better. Eventually distro hopped to gentoo and everything "just works." Initial install takes a few hours but after that maintenance is smooth sailing and will certainly make that time up. I'd rather haver a little longer initial setup time if it means maintenance turns into a nonissue
please add file manager:
midnight commander
>Why is Debian netinst on that list when Arch isn't?
Gentoo 1-st install:
0. Booting a random Live distro... Downloading stage3 and portage than continue following the handbook, afterwards?
Built-in drivers or separate modules?
Systemd vs SysV vs OpenRC?
Xorg vs Wayland?
What's all about that udev choice?
Is it possible to skip the need of initrd completely? I guess one should have an initramfs of some kind, also lvm and like support before the kernel boots...
rule of thumb is to build it in if you use it every day, build as module if youre not sure whether you use it or if you load it only as needed. `lsmod` is your friend too so you can see what's currently being used
i used mc until i found out that it relies on GNU coreutils for scp connections, and sftp doesnt even work
>Built-in drivers or separate modules?
see >Systemd vs SysV vs OpenRC?
i suggest openrc, it's simple to use
>Xorg vs Wayland?
depends, do you have nvidia gpu?
>Is it possible to skip the need of initrd completely?
see
On my main machine I got GTX970 but I'm going to try it with a X1 Carbon VMware/Virtualbox running an i5-6300 @ 2.4GHz, Intel HD 520. Is this a bad idea?
wayland with sway was awful at screen refreshing when i tried it. if you aren't using sway, maybe you'll have better luck so you may as well try it out
>My time's worth nothing
You're good for gentoo. :)
Time invested in self-development is not a wasted time. Every single keystroke in this and other clickity-clack chit-chat smalltalk mumbling websites *is* though...
I use arch, should I switch to gentoo?
yes.
yus