Maturity

Even if it supported everything Windows did, why would I still want to switch?
You're like driving a green tiny car and complaining why other people wouldn't want to drive it when it had as much horsepower as their cards did.

I agree. Gamers want their Steam ecosystem, but Steam is in effect malware that locks you in with DRM. To accept it and other similar proprietary software as a necessity of the "linux desktop" is to accept a locked-in proprietary ecosystem, one that can only ever grow and grow and foster dependency. Desktop Linux doesn't need to become Android 2.0: Windows Emulation Flavor.

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We on Jow Forums typically means the general consensus of the anons that browse here, you should know that.
But how many people are driven away from trying Linux because of games?
Look at any thread posted here about using Linux, or asking why people still use windows. Most of the time it's because of:
Games
With things like "work" and "school" being less common reasons to not.
We either have a lot of crossboarding /v/ posters, the idea of not playing triple A games on Linux turns people away, or a mixture of both.
I think could be another factor, but if that were true why is ChromeOS so far behind? Maybe it's just terrible, maybe it's lack of games, or maybe it's price points. But you can buy Chromebooks easily at any tech store.
Most people know Linux exists, even normies, what do they think when they think about it? Too different? No games? No programs?
Open source software tends to be an easy point for people here.
For normies the lighter distros, freedom given to the user (relative to windows), as well as compatibility with pretty much any form of system, it would work better than windows, faster, with a smaller footprint.
The influence of non-free software the past few years on Linux does paint a worrying picture of the future of free software to me.

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>all of you are childish and immature for enjoying video games
>real adults watch Japanese cartoons and rice desktops all day

Hypocrite.

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If you'd believe me, I don't actually do that!

I mostly agree. There are some free games, and I think those are fine, and that more should be made. I'm of the opinion that you don't really need to play that one game you're thinking about, you just need to play something to entertain yourself. I played a lot of Minecraft before Steam was ported. These days I've stopped using non-free software where possible. (Nothing I own currently supports libreboot, but I try my best where possible)

Off the top of my head for free games, there's nethack, stepmania, openarena (quake-based), openmw (reverse-engineered morrowind), and probably a lot more of varying quality. I think if we got a few more games in every major genre, it'd be a nice way to get people to stop relying on non-free software for entertainment.

Most of your constituents do and I don't believe you either way.

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It's a matter of freedom. I don't think anyone here is calling games childish. Most games are non-free software. This both means that the user is being mistreated, and that these games cannot be ported to another OS. You are at the mercy of the creator. If they decide to stop supporting it, to not fix a bug, or any other unfortunate thing, there's nothing that you can [easily] do about it.

>I am of the opinion that the only thing holding GNU/Linux back from mainstream adoption is the obsession with muh games.

Well, then you are wrong, and dumb.

It'd be nice if there was something like copyright expiration for non-free software. Maybe something where you're required to store your source somewhere on a timed release. This way games wouldn't die off the way they do now. This might require government intervention, would could be seen as tyrannical by some.

The video game issue may matter to a lot of young people, but you're still not accounting for everyone. GNU/Linux is pretty big on dedicated servers, decent on embedded recently, but still marketshare is below Mac OS. I think you'd need to somehow stop people from bundling an OS with prebuilt computers to really get back any marketshare.

>GNU/Linux is a free (as in gratis) option when setting up a computer you just bought
>more people choose it to save money
>the increased amount of users means issues like popular software not being compatible is now a bigger concern
>proprietary software like microsoft office and the adobe suite might get ported
>this also attracts people who were holding off due to lack of support for these popular proprietary programs

The only thing I'm not sure of, is if this will actually help free software in any way. I think a huge part of why free software is doing as well as it is now is actually because it's necessary. People create programs that they need. If people stop caring about free software when all the big proprietary stuff is ported, maybe that'd be bad after all.

> security and freedom os
> nsa unaudited system d
Pick one its just as closed source as macOS with zero benefits

On one hand it's great to have free software that the community can fix and update. But if you allow the same for a multiplayer game like TF2, you're just gonna end up with a mess of cheaters because it becomes so easy to do and becomes much harder to combat.

Open source is great for singleplayer and the mods make it last for decades. But for multiplayer and coop to a lesser degree you just end up with Payday 2's cheats except in a PVP game, with a 10x worse lmaobox, and not requiring some kind of mod hook to use.

What does the NSA have to do with systemd? are you mixing it up with SELinux?
also, there are at least half a dozen distros that offer alternative init systems now. The hatred of systemd is pretty widespread, so it's not a huge issue. We basically lost control of all the major distros, but we have both totally new distros as well as variants of major ones with systemd carefully replaced.

bcos people dont give a shit about muh freedom
the market dictates what is adopted and what isnt this is not up to you

Somewhat difficult to argue with this. It almost sounds like you're claiming security by obscurity works (harder to make cheats if they don't have the source), which would be stupid, but I don't know if it's fair to equate cheats to security vulnerabilities in programs.

Since we're talking about issues with multiplayer games being free software, it's also worth mentioning that you'd probably have to have a very similar if not identical game version to another person to play with them. We'd probably see things like with WoW and Maplestory, where people play old versions and there are private servers. I don't picture it really ruining the entirety of the game. For it to ruin it, there'd have to be centralization, which may be how the game would start, but if it's free software, I don't think it would stay that way. People could see how the server software works and just put up their own servers eventually. Then people can take anti-cheat into their own hands. Whitelist who can come on your server, ban anyone who cheats.

The normies care about the OS being preinstalled, nothing else really matters.

you are of the wrong opinion. what holds it back is that it's ugly and inconvenient

I don't rice it with anime, although I did spent a few hours years ago making my desktop look nice, and I've basically kept it the same way since.
It was mostly adding practical features and a plain background that wasn't too bright so when I'm working at night it isn't too bright.
I didn't say immature but maybe saying not playing games is a sign of maturity is wrong.
I think choosing an operating system just because it plays games is pretty immature to me/
OpenTTD is fun in my opinion, a nice game if I don't feel like watching something or reading. Although it's been a while since I tried it.
Really I feel if people just got consoles instead things would be way better.
People would be far more open to trying operating systems that aren't windows.
I think the resident pedophiles of this board that rice their desktops with children isn't the best representation of Linux users, I think the issue snowballed out of control due to how long it's been going on, and newfags wanting to fit in and mimicking the behavior they see.
You can try harder than that.
I think that would be awesome, but it won't ever happen I'm afraid.
I wonder if bundling windows with every PC, even those not made by microsoft could be seen as anti-competitive...

If that was true then why don't all computers only come with PC-DOS?

>real adults watch Japanese cartoons and rice desktops all day
Great "meme argument". Surely every Linux user does this.

>Really I feel if people just got consoles instead things would be way better.
I get what you're saying, it's an improvement in some ways, as it can help to keep non-free stuff off your PC, but it's still you playing non-free games on hardware that's even more locked down than your PC in many cases.

That's not what I am saying.
Normies use what is preinstalled, they aren't that much afraid of change as long everything is somewhat familiar.

If tomorrow 90% of computers would come with Ubuntu almost all normies, except the ones who need windows only software, would stay with it.

Yeah but a console has a harder time harvesting data, and for the most part will work offline by just putting a disc in.
And consoles a generation old can be modded and such, it helps the situation.
It sounds weird to advocate for it but, a PC just for gaming is silly because you will use it for other things too, and it will help leak a lot of data about you, and get it harvested, especially with how windows 10 is.
But having a PS4 or something, that thing just plays games, you don't browse the web, you don't use social media, you don't do things on it that would fill in a background of details all about you. (Unless you filled those details in on purpose)
It's a system that is on its own, disconnected from your personal life, which makes the damage of non-free games on it, far safer (in a relative sense) to use.

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We need some sort of marketing campaign similar to organic food, except for free software/hardware. Maybe also start a chain of computer stores that only sells stuff that respects your freedom. Maybe an idea that would work better in the future, considering how non-free all modern hardware is.

Linux has been tried. Nobody wants it.
The same was true of ME, Vista, and 8. Being preinstalled didn't stop people from running back to 98, XP, and 7.
People know a bad OS when they see it, and Linux is worse than the worst of Windows.

I'm familiar with this argument because I have used it in the past. I made a point to free myself, but then my pals in IRC bullied me for still using consoles. Eventually I stopped using them as well. I kind of see both sides to the issue. I think video game consoles have given us a lot of neat hardware. I'm probably going to put GNU/Linux on my Switch when I can, and try to just use free software on it. It's still a really cool piece of hardware. If I ever make my own games, I can support a bunch of controllers due to owning a bunch of controllers for various consoles. I like that nintendo and sony have motion in their controllers. It works really well for aiming accurately and quickly without a mouse. I got to see that from Splatoon 2. If I made an FPS I'd make sure to add support for gyro aiming with applicable controllers. I can't help but feel guilty when I try to play with my consoles these days, though. I've powered them all off and put them in their cases for now. If I were a bit more skilled, I could maybe justify having them around for reverse engineering and writing free software to support them, but at the moment I can't even really program in the first place.

People don't even know what an OS is. What they think is an OS is just a desktop environment. A huge part of the hate toward Windows 8 and 10 is small visual changes in the GUI. I don't use Windows, but I can't help but think this is ridiculous. If people realized all the desktop environments and window managers you can use on GNU/Linux, I think it'd change their opinion on it. What we need is a somewhat popular distro that makes it very easy to see what they all look like and to choose from them. The fact that a lot of the big distros either force a single DE on you, or don't come with one at all is a problem. As a somewhat experienced user, I don't mind choosing a minimal distro, installing i3wm or whatever, and copying over my configs I've worked on in the past. As a new user, you're not going to understand the choices you have, and it might leave you with a bad impression if you first try a distro with a DE you don't like.

why does Jow Forums have an obsession with what others do, Microsoft is literally too big too fail, they can literally buy good opinions about themselves.
As long as your linux projects are going well I wouldn't worry about what the bulk of users are doing, keeps the plebs away, eh?

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>Linux has been tried
It really hasn't.

>The same was true of ME, Vista, and 8. Being preinstalled didn't stop people from running back to 98, XP, and 7.
I know normies, they didn't care, if they read on tech sites how great these were they would have loved them.

>Linux is worse than the worst of Windows.
In terms of what?
Being an incoherent mess that requires you to screw the parts together?
Yes, but Normies don't care, if it just werks they will continue to use it.

Also, anything worth playing like Minecraft or EVE makes it to Linux.
Speaking of game shit, a lot of accesories designed for gaming like razer keyboards and mice straight up do not work out of the box with linux so I imagine a lot of video game player types are turned off right off the bat.

>it just werks
That's the point. Linux doesn't. If you tried to preinstall it on all your machines as an OEM you'd go out of business since saving $20 on a PC isn't worth getting a computer that doesn't work and then needing to spend $100 for a retail copy of Windows.

I'd try not to feel too bad lad

>I wouldn't worry about what the bulk of users are doing, keeps the plebs away, eh?
I never understood how people come to this opinion. It's normal to want the best for yourself, but once you're good to go, isn't it also normal to want the best for your friends, and eventually for everyone?

Also, consider the fact that some ATMs, elevators, medical equipment, and other public pieces of equipment run on Windows or some other non-free components. Sometimes what other people are doing can affect you in a dangerous way. It's sorta like refusing to drive after drinking alcohol and then getting hit by a drunk driver. It's worth advocating for others to do the same good things that you are doing for yourself. If you're willing to live in the woods (not using this as an extreme meme example, it's a legitimate option I have considered myself), it doesn't matter as much, but in the urbanized cities that most of us probably reside in, it's important to care about the community.

>Speaking of game shit, a lot of accesories designed for gaming like razer keyboards and mice straight up do not work out of the box with linux so I imagine a lot of video game player types are turned off right off the bat.
I don't know of any normal hardware (e,g. keyboards and mice) that actually do not function on GNU/Linux. The proprietary Razer software needed to change colors of lights and create macros or rebind things may not be supported, though. Free software can handle this portion if there's demand. There's some stuff in the AUR related to Razer stuff. I don't own their products and haven't used these packages, but it's definitely worth mentioning.

aur.archlinux.org/packages/?K=razer

No, other people have functional brains and know that games support an OS not and OS the games.

>too big to fail
No such thing.

Generally security by obscurity tends to keep the worst of the worst out, with notable exceptions like lmaobox, as the people who develop cheats for video games aren't exactly the best and brightest. Most of them aren't going to get much further than a shitty aimbot. But if those same idiots got their hands on the source code of a game, it doesn't exactly take a genius to make some really shitty stuff.

A good example of what you're describing would be GMod, it's basically open source with lots of genuinely great community mods and a system that allows you to join any of those modded servers without even restarting the game. But for a long time due to the same system that makes it so great the cheats for it were so genuinely obnoxious that they could go as far as infect other clients computers with malware and run any Lua code the cheater wanted on everybody's clients. After a while people did what you were describing and just started making their own anticheats, they already had their own decentralized dedicated servers as with any source engine game, and that worked out for a while.

And so began an arms race between the cheats and the anti cheats, as you'd expect. But eventually the real problem turned out to be the anti cheats. They had the same kind of access to everyone's clients as the cheats did obviously, so as the developers of those anti cheats got more and more desperate they started massively invading everyone's privacy. Doing things like scraping through your file system and running processes, logging keystrokes, taking screenshots, viewing memory, you name it they were doing it. Hell some of them even got so bad that they would crash your entire computer if they suspected you of something. And I suspect it would have gotten a lot worse if people didn't start getting pissed off about it.

Pt. 2

And the self policing didn't help either, if it wasn't the poorly coded community anticheat that got you on a false positive, you're liable to get banned anyways by some power crazed community admin. Admin abuse in that game is the most rampant I've ever seen. Humans are pretty garbage cheat detectors, and they churn out plenty of false positives.

Other open source games I've played, like Halo Online have the same problem in an earlier stage. You can basically make and run any mod you want and as long as your game version isn't out of date you can connect to any server you want. And the cheaters can basically do anything they want with zero repercussions because there is no anti cheat as that would detect and ban all of the other totally innocuous mods which all alter the same files.

I can totally see entire different versions of games working, like day of infamy is to insurgency and as you described with World of Warcraft. But in general for the style and nature of most current titles, I can't see an open source system working without issues. Without the ability for all clients to play together with different levels of modification you get a fractured playerbase, and with that ability you end up in the aforementioned situation.

>We on Jow Forums typically means the general consensus of the anons that browse here, you should know that.
We don't use steam. We don't care about GNU/Linux. We are not communists.

Most of the time I see this thread it's someone posting some smug anime reaction image while calling other people immature for having a different hobby. I was clearly wrong to assume all of you do it, but the majority I see do.

What if you cant stand controllers and the FOV/frame rate on consoles makes you nauseous? I stick to PC games for comfort mainly. I grew up with them, switching to a console now is pretty much out of the question.

Your newness is showing.

I think you're a retard

Playing with toys is a distraction, not a hobby. Stupid gamer.

What does that make bitching all day on Jow Forums about people who play video games?

>I am of the opinion that the only thing holding GNU/Linux back from mainstream adoption is the obsession with muh games.
Your opinion is wrong. PC gaming is a very niche market. Most people just need a browser and muh office suite.

>Why should we even support systems like Steam anyway?
"We" don't. Valve does.

Your tears are showing.

>pc gaming
>niche
uh

It is. You are biased because you lurk, but if you look at the numbers you'd see that most people barely own a laptop anymore and mobile gaming superceded console gaming (including other handhelds) as the most popular platform back in 2012.

Your intelligence is showing.

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>mobile gaming superceded console gaming (including other handhelds) as the most popular platform back in 2012.
Ironically making NIX (Android [Linux], iOS [OS X]) the most popular gaming platform.

So having a hobby building, say, model airplanes isn't also a distraction? Or maybe having a hobby refurbishing antique computers, that's not a distraction either? Or maybe having a hobby shooting guns? That's not playing with toys and a distraction?

Every hobby "mature" or not is a distraction, that's half the fun.

>So having a hobby building, say, model airplanes[sic] isn't also a distraction?
It can hone a skill.
>Or maybe having a hobby refurbishing antique computers, that's not a distraction either? Or maybe having a hobby shooting guns?
Those involve multiple skills.
>That's not playing with toys and a distraction?
The difference is whether or not it involves skill. Playing with a game doesn't give you any skills. It's like watching a cartoon, it damages your mind.

>Non-free software
>"user is being misteated"

Look man I agree but that's silly.

If you truly believe things that aren't free are you being mistreated, then you don't belong. Even ancoms shun you. You provide nothing but want everything. You are -worthless-.

Wait, how does watching a cartoon damage anything of mine? All I can think is that it would encourage my imagination just like a movie or a book

You aware that a distro usually comes with its own theming and unified design right?
Ubuntu has a unified design, elementaryOS has a unified design, Manjaro comes with a unified design. What you're saying is bullshit.

It improves your hand eye coordination, special reasoning, reaction time, teamwork, communication skills, situational awareness, and your ability to make quick decisions under pressure.

Are you even trying here? A single google search and you would already know that your statement is bogus.

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>Wait, how does watching a cartoon damage anything of mine?
If your mind isn't progressing it is dying. Cartoons can be fine for a child who is learning language, morality, and so on. But for a mentally sound adult it does nothing.

*spacial reasoning

Linux did became mainstream, it's called Android.
The monkey paw is quite cruel.

I use Linux but I play games now and then, don't really like em just do it to waste time, because that's just the type of person I am. When wow classic comes out I'll be using Linux on my desktop And play through wine and fuck of from winshit forever

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now that's a psued

Clearly you don't progress your mind very often.

>It improves your hand eye coordination
How so? By moving a mouse around? Get real.
>special reasoning
Define this. It is vague at best.
>reaction time
That is something you develop as a child. Your reaction times gets worse as you age after you mature.
>teamwork
With a computer?
>communication skills
With a computer?
>situational awareness
Only what is on your monitor, when real awareness is knowing what is all around you.
>and your ability to make quick decisions under pressure.
Yes, there is so much pressure when playing with a toy. There are no consequences to failing with a toy, there is no pressure.

>"So what"

Excuse me

>It improves your hand eye coordination
Absolutely. sites.psu.edu/ist446/2017/04/23/video-games-and-hand-eye-coordination/
>special reasoning
Autocorrect. 123test.com/spatial-reasoning-test/
>reaction time
Wrong again. ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2871325/
>teamwork
No idiot, with people online.
>communication skills
See teamwork.
>situational awareness
Wrong again, sight, audio, and "game sense" the ability to read your opponents and adjust your own strategy accordingly. It's pure ignorance to assume that just because it's on a computer screen and through headphones means it's useless. youtu.be/Ew97SzeAoYw
>and your ability to make quick decisions under pressure.
Wrong again, competitive games are specifically designed to create that tension. Your argument could easily be applied to conventional sports, just as incorrectly. This is multiplied tenfold in the pro scene, en.esl-one.com/csgo/cologne-2017/#?matchday=1 , still no pressure eh?

The only ONLY thing that is holding Linux back is that it doesn't come preinstalled on computers. Installing an OS isn't something normies do.

>Absolutely.
Not. Did you just DDG and find some nonsense webpages that agree with you?
>Autocorrect
Autocorrect is for retards.
>No idiot, with people online.
You are speaking with them, you aren't learning anything new in terms of communication.
>"game sense" the ability to read your opponents and adjust your own strategy accordingly
That is some retarded ''gamer'' babble. Nice google link.
>Your argument could easily be applied to conventional sports
No, because sports carry the weight of reputation. That is a non-issue online because you can just make a new account.

I'm not using your websites. If you can't post it here then don't bother. Especially not your google shit.

Very utilitarian worldview, unfortunately humans have emotions and mental fatigue. Some people find children's cartoons very relaxing and de-stressing but on otherhand every cartoon isn't created for children

Apparently becoming a billionaire by selling free as in freedom computers for cheaper than a Windows computer isn't something freetards do.

>but on otherhand every cartoon isn't created for children
Name some.

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>talk about open source
>don't post the source for your pic

Ghost in the Shell
Black metal
Bazillion of hentai

True, they are pure art.

>But for a mentally sound adult it does nothing.
So when you say "it damages your mind", what you actually mean is that you incur the opportunity cost (look it up) of not doing something else instead. This easily generalizes to an argument against all entertainment.

Reread the thread, kid.

>arguing about stupid shit ITT instead of something interesting

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>Absolutely.
I went on google scholar and cited research papers that support my claims. Unlike someone I know.
>Autocorrect
Who cares. Ad hominem someone else. Phone keyboards suck.
>No idiot, with people online.
Yes, because working closely with a group of people, utilizing strategy and callouts isn't constructive to team communication skills. You would be foolish to think this. Proper communication is the crux of any teamwork, and learning and practicing proper team communication is one of the most important skills you can have.
>"game sense" the ability to read your opponents and adjust your own strategy accordingly
Of course the word itself is gamer babble, though if you bothered to read the definition you would realize that "game sense" is just a name for a persons overall skill in reading situations to glean information and properly adjust their strategies accordingly. Applicable in nearly all fields.
>Your argument could easily be applied to conventional sports
Yes, and an intense basketball match between friends carries so much weight on their reputation.

>I'm not using your websites. If you can't post it here then don't bother. Especially not your google shit.

Let me correct that for you, "I refuse to look at studies and evidence you selected to prove your points because I am ignorant."

Yeah good luck posting those entire pages here, they're pretty long. Unless you actually read what I posted and come back with some of your own citations this argument is over. As your argument is clearly nothing but baseless ignorance and is not worth my time. You have nothing backing your claims up, and you're making some weak ass excuses trying avoid reading something that proves you wrong.

Bye. I'm gonna go get some sleep.

It brought me to linux when i was tired of Windows and its bullshit, i knew Linux existed and couldn't play games so i didn't bother, i saw steam for Linux was a thing so i decided to check it out and learn about Linux, i do GPU passthrough now but games literally brought me to linux, so the other guy was still correct

Oh and here are some more studies with triple digit citations for you to chew on while you're at it.
psycnet.apa.org/journals/amp/69/1/66/
irep.ntu.ac.uk/id/eprint/15272/1/187769_5405 Griffiths Publisher.pdf
jamanetwork.com/journals/jamasurgery/fullarticle/399740
frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2011.00226

>I went on google scholar and cited research papers that support my claims. Unlike someone I know.
Because you can't backup a claim yourself.
>practicing proper team communication is one of the most important skills you can have.
Too bad it is in a solely verbal arena which doesn't carry any weight. You may as well be talking to AI.
>"game sense" is just a name for a persons overall skill in reading situations to glean information and properly adjust their strategies accordingly
You can define it however you want, but that is a redundant definition. Just because you use the word game in place of something more fitting, like intelligence, doesn't mean it applies to your toys.
>Yes, and an intense basketball match between friends carries so much weight on their reputation.
I don't know what basketball is, but I'm talking about competitive sports, not play time or training where there is no pressure.
>I refuse to look at studies and evidence you selected to prove your points because I am ignorant.
Yes, you DDG'd a few key words and they prove your point. Good one.
>Yeah good luck posting those entire pages here, they're pretty long.
Obviously you can excerpt passages, you fucktard.

I don't know, kiddo, this sure sounds like it applies to all entertainment that isn't DIY:
>The difference is whether or not it involves skill.
Or do you want to say that listening to music gives you a "music appreciation skill" or something like that?

Average gamer is older than an average Jow Forums user. Grow up, freetard.

>Or do you want to say that listening to music gives you a "music appreciation skill" or something like that?
Are you trying to say that listening to music is a hobby? Is sitting down also a hobby?

There should be a "vidya thread on Jow Forums" checklist with all the poster types.

>Are you trying to say that listening to music is a hobby?
It's just as much of a hobby as watching cartoons or playing games.
>Is sitting down also a hobby?
Meditation can be.

What poster types are there?