/pcbg/ PC Building General

>Assemble a part list
pcpartpicker.com/
>Example gaming builds and _monitor_ suggestions; click on the blue title to see notes
pcpartpicker.com/user/pcbg/saved/
>Learn how to build a PC (You can find a lot more detailed videos on channels like Bitwit)
youtube.com/watch?v=69WFt6_dF8g
>How to install Win7 on Ryzen
pastebin.com/TUZvnmy1
>DO NOT OVERCLOCK ON RYZEN 2000 SERIES
If you are on the new X470 or B450 platforms letting precision boost 2 do its job gets better performance
If you want help:
>State the budget & CURRENCY for your build
>List your uses, e.g. Gaming, Video Editing, VM Work
>For monitors, include purpose (e.g., photoediting, gaming) and graphics card pairing (if applicable)

CPUs:
>NO Core i7/5/3 7000 series. THEY ARE DEFUNCT AND SUPERSEDED BY COFFEE LAKE
>NO Ryzen 1000 series. THEY ARE DEFUNCT AND SUPERSEDED BY THE Ryzen 2000 SERIES
>R3 2200G - Bare minimum gaming WITH/WITHOUT a graphics card (Low end)
>R5 2600X - Great gaming or multithreaded use CPU (Mid range)
>R7 2700X - Best gaming CPU / VM Work / Streaming / Video editing (High end)
>TR 1950X/Used Xeon - VM Work / Streaming / Video editing (HEDT)

RAM:
>Current CPUs benefit from high speed RAM; 3000-3200 MHz is ideal
>Before buying RAM for Ryzen, check your Mobo's QVL or look for user reports

Graphics cards:
>Crypto-Currency miners have driven GPU prices up (particularly Radeon)
1080p
>MSRP of standard 1080p cards: 1050Ti, 140USD; 1060 3GB, $200; 1060 6GB, $230; RX 570 4GB, $170; RX 580 4GB, $200
>GTX 1070 if you're looking for very high (100+) framerates and you have a CPU and monitor to match
1440p
>GTX 1070/Ti and 1080 are standard choices; currently overpriced
>GTX 1080Ti if you're looking for very high (100+) framerates and you have a CPU and monitor to match
2160p (4K)
>GTX 1080Ti

General:
>PLAN YOUR BUILD AROUND YOUR MONITOR IF GAMING
>A 240GB or larger SSD is almost mandatory; consider m.2 form factor

Previous:

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Other urls found in this thread:

asus.com/us/Motherboards/PRIME-B350M-A/
de.pcpartpicker.com/list/7Pr8J8
support.amd.com/en-us/kb-articles/Pages/2Gen-Ryzen-AM4-System-Bootup.aspx
twitter.com/NSFWRedditImage

Navi when

>switch from ltsb 1607 to enterprise 1803
>gpu back down to 25C idle for the first time in months
It idled around that new, but only recently was sitting around 30.

Did you really need to change the OP and get rid of all the Intel CPU recommendations?

What do you mean? Intel CPUs are superseded by Ryzen.

I'm considering a m2 SSD, are they the same as their 2.5" counterparts performance wise? ie MX500 2.5" and MX500 m.2

usually m.2 are higher (if pcie and not sata)

I was researching this for myself recently and the real world benchmarks I found showed a miniscule load time difference between regular SATA SSD and the m.2 SSD. Only seems worth getting m.2 if you don't already have or want a SATA SSD, or if you do a lot of large file manipulation eg video editing as that's where the difference really shows.

amd shill strikes again. sage

asus.com/us/Motherboards/PRIME-B350M-A/

Is this a good mATX mobo for $80?
I'm planning on ryzen 3 2200G and getting a gpu later.
Previous thread, someone said asus mobos are terrible?

Attached: P_setting_fff_1_90_end_500.jpg (500x500, 49K)

Watch buildzoid video about different B350 motherboards (I think it's called B350 crashcourse or something). This perticular motherboard doesn't even have VRM heatsinks so it's not that great.

I use an x370 prime

Pros: OC is crazy good. Might be the board or my 1700 is top .05%. Maybe both.

Cons: Pretty much no memory support.

alright you fags.
I'm looking to build a new PC.

>use cases
programming
VM stuff (mostly for testing, playing around with linux distros, maybe Windows for some particular programs)
Normie shit (web, email, movies)
GNU/Linux as main OS
on a 1440p monitor
no gayming
>budget
up to 1000 yuros
>priorities
small; The case I'm looking at now is the ncase m1
quiet/silent: be quiet! fans/psu/coolers seem to be a good choice here
quality: I want to use quality components to achieve these priorities, not to save money to squeeze out a bit more performance
performance: I don't game, but I still want "quality of life" performance, i.e. fast loading, responsiveness, etc.

What should I do?
Correct me if I'm wrong on any of the following:
I can probably get away with lower-end hardware based on my uses.
The most important part for "everyday use" performance is an SSD. Would NVMe be worth it?
I don't really need a dedicated GPU.

So...

>Case
NCASE M1
>CPU
??? Ryzen 2200G/2400G ???
??? Other ???
>GPU
n/a
>MOBO
mITX form factor. That limits the choice, there's pretty much only 1 option per Manufacturer from what I've seen.
Are there any rules of thumb which brands are good/bad? asus is out as it doesn't support onboard graphics.
>RAM
??? 1x8 vs 2x4 vs 2x8 ???
??? Speed ??? afaict non-OC limit on mITX AM4 boards is 2666
I guess ECC ram is a meme for non-professional use
>Storage
~250GB is enough for me. M.2 is probably not a bad idea in a sff case. the question is, NVMe or SATA?
Upgrading is easy and I have some drives I could reuse.
>Cooling
This is where the quiet part comes in. With the case I'm pretty much limited to TF/LP CPU Coolers. I'm considering the be quiet! Dark Rock or Shadow Rock. Not sure if the higher end would give me an advantage. AIOs are louder than air apparently?
As for case fans, I could theoretically fit 5 in there, 2 bottom 2 side 1 back. Many fans for better airflow or fewer for less moving parts?
>PSU
again, be quiet is what I'd be looking at.

best budget micro atx case?

For 2400G best ram is 2 sticks and high speed, 3000 or 3200.
I would hovever get a 2600 for extra cores and gtx 1050 for basic video tasks.
As for motherboard get something good - maybe even wait for B450 boards to come out.

When is the b450 expected to come out?

idk i guess soon enough

Alright /pcbg/, this question has been asked to many times, but there is no real verdict:

Windows 7 or Windows 10?

I have a 8700k, a 1080ti, and 16GB worth of DDR4. I am very concerned about Win10's bloat and telemetry crap, as well as the loss of compatibility for older programs and games, different language/locale systems, and general inconveniences. Although the Enterprise edition does sound intriguing...

I am leaning towards Win7, but I am worried if it's a wise investment in the long run or not. I am coming from a 9 years old Vista laptop if that means anything. Additionally, depending on answer, what version of either OS should I get?

>inb4 install gentoo
I actually intend to use a Linux OS for VM, but not as a primary boot OS... at least for now.

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Get w10 LTSB

Any CPU where you can still control what the machine does, no ring -2 MME bullshit?

how important is a ULMB mode on a monitor for fast paced gaming? i want to try my luck with the asus mg279q but i'm seeing people complain that it doesn't have a low motion blur mode

How long does it take for AMD to send the stop gap processor to update the bios? I put the email in on Monday and have yet to hear back from them about whether my RMA got accepted or not

XP had actually the best icons

I don't understand the ram speed thing. The AMD website says max speed 2667 or 2933, the motherboards mark everything above 2667 as "OC", you tell me 3000+... So what is it?

3000-3200. Ignore that confusing shit.

Reminder 2700X is the best CPU overall and schlomos are seething.

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Are MSI mobos good? Why do so many reviews complain about crashes or defective MSI mobos?

it's shit
nice socket

de.pcpartpicker.com/list/7Pr8J8 couldn't find the case

>2700x best overall
>when it clearly loses to 8700k in gaming
i don't get tomshardware. last year they went overboard and recommended 4c/4t intel cpus instead of superior ryzen, now they went the other way around? 8700k is more expensive, but fuck me if it doesn't perform better in games than 2700x. even 8400 beats ryzen in most titles.
they're contradicting their own benchmark results.

Maybe one of you know.
I bought a ryzen 2200G and when I plug it I just have a "OUT OF RANGE!" in my monitor and I can't access the bios.
I tried plugging a usb drive with a linux iso and it ended booting on it.

How can I solve this out of range issue ?

>no 8400
Another shill op

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How good are PNY GPUs? That GTX 1060 6GB at MSRP looks really good.

>loses to 8700k in gaming
*by 5 fps, also 8700k is more expensive, don't forget to buy liquid cooler, delid kit, and 1080ti to see the differences

Thanks that looks bretty gud.
Though is a 650W PSU really necessary?

probably not

>1060 6GB, $230
>$230
Where?

You need to update the BIOS
I'm , bought a 2400G and an Asus TUF B350M with a sticker on the box that says BIOS update required
I'm currently waiting for AMD to even let me know if I'm going to get the CPU needed to update it, here's the link
support.amd.com/en-us/kb-articles/Pages/2Gen-Ryzen-AM4-System-Bootup.aspx

i already did mention that it's more expensive, idiot. the difference is much bigger when you're not gpu bottlenecked so stop repeating 'muh 5 fps meme'.
the name of the category 'best overall' states that the cpu should be THE BEST for gaming, no matter what price. therefore is someone is picking 1080ti then yes he should also get 8700k and a beefy cooler. choosing 2700x for gaming in the case is just crippling your build.

Attached: average_gaming.png (582x968, 26K)

Let me save you the trouble.
Windows 7.
Why? Well because you still get:
>latest security updates
>no forced updates in general
>support until 2021 or 2022 I believe
>Vulkan so W10 DX 12 benefit is pretty much worthless or equal to Vulkan.
>W7 UI is more comfy
>W7 has setting that don't look like they were made for tech-illiterates
>Just as fast as W10 in boot and doing stuff
>better support in W7 for old/DX 8/9/10 games than W10
>Just a better OS

I'm running a Ryzen 1700 with W7 and I get ALL the Windows updates, equal if not better performance, and a slick OS in general.
It's my favorite consumer OS from Microsoft.
W10 , W8, and even W8.1 are shit in comparison.

>8400 @ 4GHz beats 8600k @ 4.3GHz
Nice retarded benchmark.
>.pl
That explains everything.

it's not necessary but it was only €15 more than 450w (looking at fully-modular). but yeah even 400w is going to be enough.

Nice 'poo' chart. The 2700X while a few frames behind the 8700k is just better in basically everything else and includes a pretty good prism cooler.
Stop holding on to Intel like a fanboy and realize that AMD finally made a superior product for once.
-t. previous Intel 2500k owner.

>no processor reaches 144 fps
lmaoing @ 144hz faggots

1 500 gb 900p would have been the same price and BETTER in everything except 128k sequential read performance compared to TWO 960 Evos. :/
Do you see how that just really doesn't make sense? Optane with StoreMi is both easier to set up, easier to live with without the risk of one drive failing killing both, cheaper, and performs better in over 90% of tasks.

Granted, that's ONLY with Ryzen. I'm assuming you probably had an intel platform and thus no StoreMi. Optane doesn't work well with Intel's own software.

GOOD boards still work fine for the new CPUs. Notably all but the cheapest ASUS boards seem to support all the new features.

I know the B350-F Prime is extremely good. That one seems to be similar. Check the BIOS update page to see if they added the new Ryzen 2000 features.
Oh it's for a 2200G.
Well anyway like the other mentioned, no VRM heatsinks. I could swear there is another $80 PRIME board with VRM heatsinks.

Middle of the road. 1440p.

def nice of them. Usually they charge like 5bux.

Not even. It's budget AND performance oriented. On top of just working and making life easier not needing a bunch of drive letters. You can even set it up on a non-fresh install.

M.2 IS A FORM FACTOR STANDARD NOT PERFORMANCE STANDARD
The op even says that
>form factor

>i-it d-doesnt c-count
like clockwork

Attached: computerbase.jpg (636x340, 47K)

Amazon Mexico, should i or not?
Im getting in a small debt if i do but looks like a really good deal.

the values are in percentage you mongoloid.

why change the subject? we're clearly discussing the top gaming performance, not your niche 7zip benchmarks.

Attached: pcgamer.png (600x774, 164K)

Ryzen is so shit lol

>the values are in percentage you mongoloid.
Sorry, don't understand sub-human languages.

>Core i5-7600K = 100%
brainlet spotted

>we're clearly discussing the top gaming performance
No, we're discussing overall performance, and the 2700x is "best overall", as stated here

the title of their article is literally "Best Gaming CPUs".
"This list is for gamers who want to get the most for their money, so if you don’t play games, the CPUs on this list may not be suitable for you."
the whole purpose of this list is to recommend gaming cpus.

Is there such thing as an AMD system with low power draw?

>B350-F Prime
No such thing, did you mean the Strix B350-F Gaming?
>I could swear there is another $80 PRIME board with VRM heatsinks.
You are probably thinking of the Prime B350-Plus, thought I don't know if that's $80.
ASUS makes too many boards.

Attached: With red LEDs for more FPS.jpg (500x500, 47K)

To correct/add to this post:
Crucial Ballistix Sport lT 2666 tends to be some of the best budget APU RAM despite only being 2666.
The thing is it's 2666 AT 1.2v, and it's dual rank. Both Ryzen and iGPU love dual rank. Dual rank at 2800 CL14 should roughly match 3200 CL15.
But since tech youtubers are incompetant, and so are most journalists, I don't have results to cite to back this up. But you can find Ryzen results to see how much it benefits from dual rank. And you can look at Godvari APUs and see how much they benefit from dual rank. It's about a 7% FPS benefit over 2 single rank there.
Also, in reading this, don't confuse dual rank with dual channel.

You can get 2x8gb of that RAM for around $165. Though recently there was some 3200 CL14 on same for $170, that'd be a better buy, but normally for the past few weeks Crucial Ballistix Sport LT has been by far the best value RAM.

Up to 10 days iirc.

I guess they actually took into consideration that 2700X+motherboard = $400
while 8700k+cooler+motherboard=$550.

Oops that's the one. Now I question how good support on the PRIME boards might be when I've only heard confirmation of the Strix ones being great for Ryzen 2000 series (supporting PB overclock etc)

Yeah but WHAT SOFTWARE? Fucking srednia wydajnosc sub-humans

Can't play games with 8700k because it doesn't even have a cooler so they're right.

>i'm a fucking retarded us burger nigger who needs to be spoon-fed all the fucking time
literally google "[site] + 2700x" and paste it into google translator you fucking mongoloid HOLY SHIT how can you be THIS goddamn retarded PLEASE stop posting

>literally google my sub-human language
No.

>M.2 IS A FORM FACTOR STANDARD NOT PERFORMANCE STANDARD

I was wondering if theres any performance difference in the different form factors of the same branded SSD but I suppose not as its just more convenience?

...

yes. a sata m.2 and a sata 2.5" have the same performance

>Up to 10 days
That's how long you got after you receive it to return it to them, how long is the average wait for them to even acknowledge the RMA?

Just making sure this OP has updated recommendations? I'm helping a friend PC build and I bought my 1070 right before the ridiculous crypto currency miner trend took off. Don't know what to recommend right now due to price.

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Sandybridge i7 fag here

I'm looking to build a new PC but I can't decide between Intel or AMD
I mainly game and program on my pc with some light VM work. Also looking to get into the game streaming meme to twitch or something but I wouldn't do it that often.
I don't know if I can be a waitfag™ for Zen 2 or Intel's next offerings.

1. Even with the new hardware? (8700k + 1080ti + DDR4)
2. Additionally, what version of Windows 7 should I get? Pro, Home, Ultimate...etc?
3. I can always go for LTSB once support ends like suggests, right?

The main reason I'm asking is because of how I cannot do much stuff on Vista anymore recently. Can't use Dropbox (neither on my old Mac) as well as lots of new games not working and such. I don't want it to end again so soon on my new PC.

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I'm pretty sure a new version of LTSB, now called LTSC (channel instead of branch) would have came out by the time 7 support ends

Intel has more segmentation coming up, so Z370 and current locked chips are going to be almost obsolete so you might as well wait
AMD usually offers higher value anyway, 2600 and above would all do well

7600k at 5ghz hits 100% on all cores in BF1 and a lot of newer games. Shit is shit.

Just get a 2600X and have the best of both worlds?
The motherboard will support Zen2 while a Z370 board won't support Intel's next shit.

I wanted to wait too, but I had a 2500k and it was a stutterfest. I couldn't wait any longer. My 1600X (was on sale for same price as 1600 and I wanted a different cooler) is perfectly fine, but I'd still like more with Zen2 because autism.

Anyone experienced with RGB fans? Do they use a separate connector for the RGB color control? I have an ASUS motherboard with Aura Sync and need some new case fans, was thinking of getting something with colors.

1. Yes, don't fall for the memes and just follow the W7 tutorial on the OP.
As well for security updates, I remember having a link to a github that held some code or file that allowed them. Look it up online with how to allow security updates on W7 Ryzen/Kaby Lake (both work equally).
2. Pro is the most common one, I got a key off a Microsoft key subreddit from a guy called GoodGuyGreg (haha plebbit haha, at least they save me $$$). Ultimate is unnecessary and very expensive if a legit copy, and the others are inferior.
The key was bought last year in August 2017 and it still works just like the real deal, if M$ ever catches you then GoodGuyGreg will just usually give you one. I see that they get these W7 keys from universities and they are pretty hard to catch on or get caught.
3. Well yeah, but it's still W10 but not as a shit. Still forced updates and crappy UI though.
The way I see it is that I most likely will move on to the next Windows after 10 if it gets better, if not I'll hold my ground on 7 or go to Linux.

W7 and Vista support are TWO completely different support systems, more computers nowadays have W7 than W10 and still receive the exact same support.
If at the end in like 2 years want the latest Windows support if W7 ever gets killed, then LTSB is your way to go I guess.

However right now with those W7 keys selling for like $10, I would try to savor and enjoy the characteristics that W7 holds for now. It's just so comfy.
[email protected] if you have any more questions on how to get W7 working.

I don't care about the opinions of 2 "people" in a thread that constantly gets over 100 unique id's 98% of this thread doesn't give a fuck about intel in the OP, stop being autistic.

We will be better off without you, don't come back

I'm personally team #waitfornavi #waitforzen2

This clip/release/switch thing fell off my motherboard when I was putting in a new CPU cooler. My GPU is just held into the motherboard permanently now. I'm not bothered right now, but eventually I want to change the motherboard completely. How will I remove the GPU without this release thingy?

Attached: thing.jpg (3000x1850, 992K)

I recently upgraded to an AM4 motherboard and kept my Win7 installation. The only hard thing to be prepared for is lack of USB3 support out of the box in Windows 7. Easiest workaround is to use a PS/2 connector to install the drivers then everything is easy after that. If you're doing a fresh install then you can slipstream the drivers you need into your install image.

>98% of this thread doesn't give a fuck about intel in the OP
If the 8400 was good for gaming last thread it didn't suddenly become bad in this thread. If you change it because people in the thread like AMD over Intel then you'll be changing it every week.

You guys know that anyone can make the PCBG thread right?

Finish breaking it off the rest of the way. Make sure it's turned off when you do so.

Well in the last thread it didn't exactly highly recommend the 8400.
I could take it or leave it, honestly.

Performance is irrelevant (even though its only 5% better than a 2600 in gaming) This is a thread for retards and beginners, not people willing to delid and people doing crazy shit to mitigate intels flaws. That is why its not in the OP.

>i recommend cpus based on people's feelings and not facts and benchmarks
holy shit you're actually retarded

see

You're retarded. 8400 not only performs better in gaming than 2600/x, it also has much better price/performance ratio. You're contradicting yourself; with Ryzen you need to overclock and fuck around with RAM timings (hope you overpaid for that Samsung B-Die Meme) for it to even have a chance against 8400, which just works out of the box.

If performance was irreverent every GPU rec under a 1080ti would be AMD, I cut AMD gpus out of my OP because performance isnt the only factor.

>ryzen users admit to being retards

>This is a thread for retards and beginners, not people willing to delid and people doing crazy shit to mitigate intels flaws. That is why its not in the OP.

Looking at a QLV sheet for ram compatibility is not the same in tediousness as deliding.

>recommend 1080 Ti for high framerates
>won't do the same for CPUs because muh feelings
5% better is 5% better. A beginner looking for the best CPU for gaming shouldn't be told to get Ryzen. It's objectively worse. There's specific use cases for everything. Intel has better performance in gaming.

Behold, the power of the locked i5

Attached: perfrel_1920_1080_0.png (500x970, 47K)

AMD's platform is better for babbys first pc yes

Not really
Any processor is good for babby's first PC
Just depends on what your first pc is for.

Actual CPU recommendations
You can tell that the OP is an AMD fanfaggot because there aren't any Intel recs (besides some token used CPU)

CPUs:
>NO R3 1200/1300X or R5 1400/1500X. THEY ARE DEFUNCT AND SUPERSEDED BY THE R3 2200G AND R5 2400G
>R3 2200G - Gaming WITHOUT a graphics card
>G5400 - HTPC, web browsing, or bare minimum gaming builds with a dedicated graphics card
>i3 8100 - Budget gaming builds
>R5 2600 / i5 8400 - Great gaming (especially the i5 8400) or multithreaded use CPUs (especially the R5 2600)
>R7 2700 / i7 8700K - VM Work / Streaming / Video editing

Attached: Ryzen 2 gaming average.png (1920x1080, 1.1M)

I recommend a 1080ti because its flat out better than anything AMD has and has no major drawbacks other than price, the same cannot be said for intel cpus which require a delid or a fuck hueg cooler to have comparable temps/thremals to AMD

The point of discussion is 8400 vs 2600, retard. The 8400 beats it at stock settings and does not need delidding or a $50 cooler. Also looking at QVL shouldn't be required in picking RAM, it's only case for Zen11 and its terrible memory controllers. With Zen+ people are being memed into buying expensive RAM just to squeeze out that extra 5% of performance so they can brag about having almost achieving Intel's CPU performance while in reality they spent more money.

>$180 cpu beats $330 cpu
thanks for proving my point

>token used CPU

Attached: nigga-what.jpg (1280x720, 210K)

>which require a delid or a fuck hueg cooler to have comparable temps/thremals to AMD
>you need to delid or use a D15 for a 8400
Even the 8600k doesn't need delid and you only need a large cooler if you push it to 5+Ghz. At that point though it's much better than the 2600.

So, I build my brand new PC in the Zalman 1 case and i am no too please with the temps.
While gaming the CPU stays at 68C and GPU at 72C
Although not critical, it would be nice to get some more air flow. I have one 120mm in front and one on the back and i also have one extra but it wont fit anywhere in the case and even if it did my mobo only has two slots for sys fans, so what now?

Np. I usually shill the 8400 in pcbg because it triggers the drones. Its value is undenyable

I can't seem to locate where or how to access Precision boost 2.
I'd like to know how to get to it before I get my stuff so I'm not fumbling around for too long. It's coming on a day before I have to head back to work and it's a shitty morning shift.

Replace thermal paste with some good quality shit (unless you've done that already). Though really those temps are absolutely fine.

>Are MSI mobos good?

Who needs warranty support when you have rgb?