I thought it was supposed to be this super clean, lightweight thing but it's a bloaty, buggy piece of shit where versions of programs you need for work don't exist or just suck.
Sometimes some nonsense will leave your computer ususable and asking for help online only gets a programmer wizard typing shade at you for not knowing terminal hacker commands by heart
Like, I appreciate that it's taking a stance against nineteen eighty-four type business in tech that became more and more prevalent post 9/11, but Linux has no programs besides obscure programmery stuff or the most basic of software, the distros feel like they were designed by autistics, and the kind of people who use them kind of discourage people from taking interest in it. It all just seems self-defeating.
I tried Mint and Ubuntu, and that's the experience I'm describing. For anything other than web browsing, office tasks, and making stuff that runs on computers, Linux and linux software is fucking garbage.
Zachary Torres
>user feedback is not important
Bentley Parker
>GNU/Linux/X11 Is this nigga unironic?
Robert Gray
>Why is linux so bad? >I thought it was supposed to be this super clean, lightweight thing Linux is technically just the kernel, it's distros can be clean and lightweight or fully featured and bloated. What distro are you running? There's a distro called Damn Small Linux which only uses a few MB in total size and can be fully loaded in memory >but it's a bloaty, buggy piece of shit where versions of programs you need for work don't exist or just suck. Give an example, be specific >Sometimes some nonsense will leave your computer ususable and asking for help online only gets a programmer wizard typing shade at you for not knowing terminal hacker commands by heart Elitism exist, deal with it
Instead of spreading FUD tell us the distro you are using and problems you run into.
Be specific about the issues? What did you try doing?
Colton Garcia
In reality, you're talking about the GNU os. It was is basically a clone of Unix with a monolitical kernel (linux) bolted on top. It is a piece of shit because the frontends (gnome, kde) don't adhere to the unix philosophy. They use the basic utils but push the advanced functions away. It is fragmented, underused and the community is full of stupid elitists and gatekeepers who don't know shit.
It also covers the most obscure use cases but for the normal ones, it either uses old and bad utilities, or just doesn't exist at all
Sebastian Cook
Most GNU/Linux distros are bloated thanks to Red Hat jewry. Bunch of un-debuggable low-level shit infesting previously workable distros. Unless you want to learn the ins and outs of the likes of systemd and the cancer that is apt, most distros are unfortunately not going to work out for you. Before the autists flood, systemd is not the worst thing ever like everyone says, but you have to admit it is bloated as shit and hard to debug and configure by hand. Linux communities either suck Red Hat's massive cock, or are incredibly autistic like you mentioned. There are very few good active communities anymore that are able to cater to newfags and oldfags alike; see Arch, where they can tell you what i3 you need to wine your windowmaker, but can't tell the ass-end of anything in the kernel except for a few of the main developers. Meanwhile distros like Slackware (which has been in decline for years) and Gentoo (popular but intentionally convoluted) are entirely focused on being hacker-first systems and aren't easily used by outsiders. Incredibly powerful but for newcomers they can be incredibly daunting and borderline retarded vs other modern end-user systems. I digress. There is no good prebuilt operating system in this bitch of a world. The best you will find aimed at end-users is most likely Debian; Ubuntu is too bloated and covered in politics to really recommend. The best distros for non-normies are Gentoo or Slackware. You can try Arch but broken installs are incredibly common. If you want a Unix system aimed for end-users you can try TrueOS. NetBSD is the hacker alternative. BSDs feel a lot more comfy for some people and also generally favor text configs and simple designs that result in fewer headaches, but they have even less active communities than Linux and less up-to-date software. FreeBSD has an active community but the devs are outraged feminists; they spent their donation money on "gender equality training" if that tells you anything.
Austin Baker
But did you installing Gentoo?
Anthony Cooper
This is also very true. GNU is old dogshit shined up to make it appear more modern, but that has only led to lots of regressions and hard to maintain code. Most modern GNU/Linux distros often make use of the same core software such as systemd, policykit, packagekit, rpms, all the WM standards, avahi, dbus, etc, which is of course Red Hat's attempt at unifying the communities and code [under their banner]. These tools are inherently anti-Unix as they either replace existing Unix idioms or cover them in cruft. It might get the job done but it is in no way elegant about it. Remember kids, GNU's Not Unix, and that's somehow a good thing. Either a new userland needs to be developed that gets rid of the years of layered cruft and starts fresh and solid, or we need to go back to how things were when they worked well, even if they weren't perfect.
Jace Brown
Is there any kind of fundamental set of ideals, philosophies, or objectives that the community of people developing for Linux holds in concensus? Is there a reason for its existence, or is Linux basically the "royalty-free laugh track" of computing?
>Linux basically the "royalty-free laugh track" of computing Confirmed you are a total retard who doesn't know shit about competing. Go back.
Austin Kelly
>Confirmed you are a total retard who doesn't know shit about competing. Go back. Computers are a means to ends for me, not the end. The same goes for nearly anyone else who uses computers.
The elitist pointy-headed intellectuals people mentioned as annoying? You're one of them.
Kevin Howard
You mean some Windows-only software doesn't work as it should on Wine?
Luis Martinez
Thank you, Arjun. Your contimued support is noted and appreciated.
15INR have been deposited into your account.
Adam Martin
Why THE FUCK i need to DOWNLOAD gcc to compile c program? Whole linux is written in c, yet i need to be online to compile hello world, pathetic. I dont have broadcast driver, and i need to wait week for new computer, so until then i wanted to go through k&r c textbook. It seems you cannot even do that without internet
Nolan Robinson
Install OpenBSD.
Jordan Morris
You don't seem to realize how important free software is, when you contribute to Linux you're contributing to everyone, because everyone can benefit from Linux, meanwhile if you contribute to Windows, you're only helping Microsoft make more money, that's it.
Kayden Bennett
See and If you aren't retarded, consider a minimal install of Debian with a Motif based WM or DE if you're on x86-64 with 1GB of RAM. If you're on an obscure architecture, try NetBSD or OpenBSD with Fluxbox which will be easy to compile yourself. I use MaXX Interactive on Debian. It's a fork of the 4Dwm from IRIX. It's really just a window manager and handful of programs right now, but the dev is slowly working on the 1.2.0 release.
For those who don't know, IRIX was a System V based OS with a beautiful Motif based UI that ran on high end graphics workstations in the 90s that were used to create movies like Jurassic Park. Even to this day I haven't found an OS as complete, feature packed, and elegant as IRIX was. Too bad that it'll die with the custom MIPS hardware. SGI hardware is expensive now, but in the early 2000s it was dirt cheap second hand and I used these machines extensively. My trusty O2's hard disk died and I have no install media, so it's fucked.
Yeah unaudited alphabet agency systemd really helped linux
Brayden Cook
>not paying for software Free as in freedom, not free as in price.
The reason most GNU software doesn't cost anything is because proprietary developers drove the market down to zero. See google and facebook for the extreme examples of this, people just expect software and services not to cost anything now.
Cooper Turner
>the distros feel like they were designed by autistics that's because they where, Linux is the autists OS
Lucas Cooper
> shitting on something because you have provlems with it you refuse to describe now counts as user feedback
Mason Jackson
>try installing debian because it's the most user friendly and doesn't spy on you like mint or ubuntu >installation fails and falls back to a virtual terminal that just says "kill" before throwing me a pci bus error >grub pci=noaer pci=nomsi but fails again >arch install just werks >6 hours later i finally fix the fonts and get my bluetooth headphones to work >pacman -Syu breaks the whole system 2 days later
:^o
Tyler Moore
you chose a bloated, buggy distro and/or expected a flawless system that fits in 16kb
Adam Garcia
>Sometimes some nonsense will leave your computer ususable and asking for help online only gets a programmer wizard typing shade at you for not knowing terminal hacker commands by heart If you want good support then pay for it. If you're begging random people for free help on internet forums then don't be surprised when some of them are rude, you will get the same with any software.
>Linux has no programs besides obscure programmery stuff or the most basic of software >For anything other than web browsing, office tasks, and making stuff that runs on computers, Linux and linux software is fucking garbage. 1) Linux is a kernel not an OS, did you mean GNU/Linux? 2) If your bar for quality software is all the tremendously bloated proprietary crap coming out now then of course you will be disappointed. Change your expectations, embrace the unix philosophy of programs being small, efficient, and self-contained.
Brayden Morales
Systemd was written by Torvalds, what kind of drugs are you kids taking these days?
Jacob Wright
My problems are with my operating system, not me. :^)
Colton Robinson
What do you expect from an OS made by programming hobbyist?
Jayden Gutierrez
It isn't though.
Joshua Ward
Pick a distro that comes with gcc preinstalled (which means not a minimal distro like Debian).
David White
Your thread sucks but damn war a cutie.
Jonathan Rogers
>Mint spies on you You off your nut, mate? If you're referring to systemd Debian has that too.
Jayden Gomez
>An OS that is primarily used by programmers has an abundance of programming utils Shocker Also, the terminal isn't programming, Norman. Just because it doesn't have pretty pictures doesn't make it programming or coding or hacking. Fuck off. We don't want your kind anyway.
>pacman -Syu breaks the whole system 2 days later Never has happen to me. I've an xorg setting change that fucked up gdm, but it was a two minute fix; and most of that time was just rebooting. Just use windows. If you don't know what your doing, don't try.
Josiah Garcia
>it's a bloaty Linux is pretty light weight. It's the other shit that people install on top of it that bloats it. Install OpenBSD if it's still not lightweight enough for you.
>programs you need for work Yeah we get it. You miss your games. Have you every considered the fact that they have programmed your reward system for immediate gratification and this is why you can't put together the concentration necessary to learn how to accomplish things in a different system? If not you should. Video games work by playing with these systems to encourage consumerist behavioral patterns which they can exploit for revenue.
>typing shade at you for not knowing terminal hacker commands by heart They're irritated that you didn't use that super 1337 hacker command called a search engine.
Kevin Gomez
>video games are used for entertainment. you buy them that's all you had to say you fucking brainlet. video games are the only good kind of entertainment out there.
Alexander Mitchell
I find systemd easier to configure vs things like openrc and fstab.
Bentley Parker
It's also easier to make conclusions from memes then to actually learn something.
Nolan Cook
>I thought it was supposed to be this super clean, lightweight thing Alpine/Void.
>typing shade at you You must be 18 to visit this site.
James Young
Let me correct my self, 12-y/o macfag. Sometimes I get out-of-the-loop boomer incompetence confused with whats-a-gomputer middle-schooler incompetence.
I'd just like to interject for a moment. What you're referring to as Linux, is in fact, GNU/Linux, or as I've recently taken to calling it, GNU plus Linux. Linux is not an operating system unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning GNU system made useful by the GNU corelibs, shell utilities and vital system components comprising a full OS as defined by POSIX.
Many computer users run a modified version of the GNU system every day, without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events, the version of GNU which is widely used today is often called "Linux", and many of its users are not aware that it is basically the GNU system, developed by the GNU Project.
There really is a Linux, and these people are using it, but it is just a part of the system they use. Linux is the kernel: the program in the system that allocates the machine's resources to the other programs that you run. The kernel is an essential part of an operating system, but useless by itself; it can only function in the context of a complete operating system. Linux is normally used in combination with the GNU operating system: the whole system is basically GNU with Linux added, or GNU/Linux. All the so-called "Linux" distributions are really distributions of GNU/Linux.
No, Richard, it's 'Linux', not 'GNU/Linux'. The most important contributions that the FSF made to Linux were the creation of the GPL and the GCC compiler. Those are fine and inspired products. GCC is a monumental achievement and has earned you, RMS, and the Free Software Foundation countless kudos and much appreciation. Following are some reasons for you to mull over, including some already answered in your FAQ. One guy, Linus Torvalds, used GCC to make his operating system (yes, Linux is an OS -- more on this later). He named it 'Linux' with a little help from his friends. Why doesn't he call it GNU/Linux? Because he wrote it, with more help from his friends, not you. You named your stuff, I named my stuff -- including the software I wrote using GCC -- and Linus named his stuff. The proper name is Linux because Linus Torvalds says so. Linus has spoken. Accept his authority. To do otherwise is to become a nag. You don't want to be known as a nag, do you? (An operating system) != (a distribution). Linux is an operating system. By my definition, an operating system is that software which provides and limits access to hardware resources on a computer. That definition applies whereever you see Linux in use. However, Linux is usually distributed with a collection of utilities and applications to make it easily configurable as a desktop system, a server, a development box, or a graphics workstation, or whatever the user needs. In such a configuration, we have a Linux (based) distribution. Therein lies your strongest argument for the unwieldy title 'GNU/Linux' (when said bundled software is largely from the FSF). Go bug the distribution makers on that one. Take your beef to Red Hat, Mandrake, and Slackware. At least there you have an argument. Linux alone is an operating system that can be used in various applications without any GNU software whatsoever. Embedded applications come to mind as an obvious example.
Next, even if we limit the GNU/Linux title to the GNU-based Linux distributions, we run into another obvious problem. XFree86 may well be more important to a particular Linux installation than the sum of all the GNU contributions. More properly, shouldn't the distribution be called XFree86/Linux? Or, at a minimum, XFree86/GNU/Linux? Of course, it would be rather arbitrary to draw the line there when many other fine contributions go unlisted. Yes, I know you've heard this one before. Get used to it. You'll keep hearing it until you can cleanly counter it. You seem to like the lines-of-code metric. There are many lines of GNU code in a typical Linux distribution. You seem to suggest that (more LOC) == (more important). However, I submit to you that raw LOC numbers do not directly correlate with importance. I would suggest that clock cycles spent on code is a better metric. For example, if my system spends 90% of its time executing XFree86 code, XFree86 is probably the single most important collection of code on my system. Even if I loaded ten times as many lines of useless bloatware on my system and I never excuted that bloatware, it certainly isn't more important code than XFree86. Obviously, this metric isn't perfect either, but LOC really, really sucks. Please refrain from using it ever again in supporting any argument. Last, I'd like to point out that we Linux and GNU users shouldn't be fighting among ourselves over naming other people's software. But what the heck, I'm in a bad mood now. I think I'm feeling sufficiently obnoxious to make the point that GCC is so very famous and, yes, so very useful only because Linux was developed. In a show of proper respect and gratitude, shouldn't you and everyone refer to GCC as 'the Linux compiler'? Or at least, 'Linux GCC'? Seriously, where would your masterpiece be without Linux? Languishing with the HURD? If there is a moral buried in this rant, maybe it is this:
Be grateful for your abilities and your incredible success and your considerable fame. Continue to use that success and fame for good, not evil. Also, be especially grateful for Linux' huge contribution to that success. You, RMS, the Free Software Foundation, and GNU software have reached their current high profiles largely on the back of Linux. You have changed the world. Now, go forth and don't be a nag. Thanks for listening.
