>in every user interface study we’ve ever done […], [we found] it’s pretty easy to learn how to use these things ‘til you hit the file system and then the learning curve goes vertical. So you ask yourself, why is the file system the face of the OS? Wouldn’t it be better if there was a better way to find stuff?
>Now, e-mail, there’s always been a better way to find stuff. You don’t keep your e-mail on your file system, right? The app manages it. And that was the breakthrough, as an example, in iTunes. You don’t keep your music in the file system, that would be crazy. You keep it in this app that knows about music and knows how to find things in lots of different ways. Same with photos: we’ve got an app that knows all about photos. And these apps manage their own file storage. […]
>And eventually, the file system management is just gonna be an app for pros and consumers aren’t gonna need to use it.
I think it already is as he says with Google. People don't care about downloading anything anymore, they have 100Mbps Internet and save everything they have in some cloud. Soon Windows's explorer.exe will die the day Windows's search bar can find every file you have.
Nicholas Evans
People can learn quickly as long as the rules are simple and consistent across use cases.
Thomas Long
>You don’t keep your music in the file system a couple hundreds gigs of mp3 and flac files on my hdd say otherwise
a couple TB of porn, hentai anime, doujins and other stuff in my 3 HDD agree with you
Oliver Campbell
How do you play/curate/manage them? The filesystem doesn't show you the metadata.
Connor Thompson
But it does? Even windows 7 does.
Jason Wright
This is fine if you want to use a walled garden normie consumer device. As soon as you want to freely control how you manage your data or want interoperability, it goes to complete shit.
Parker Bell
I don't even know what this "cloud" shit mean. I have a 6To nas and I download everything. I put everything on hdd, movies, music and games.
I have a hacked PS4 and download my games, a walkman for my music and a tv for my movies. I've bought a macbook and boot windows everytime I need to do something serious with my computer. I also have an iphone and I don't even understand how it work. I never download an "app" (I still call it a software), only one for booking my train tickets and one for my hotel rooms. It look confusing as fuck having everything on the "desktop", all those shitty shovelware like "apple watch" or "apple health" or everything else. Only "map" or I don't know what's it called, is useful.
Around me people don't even own computers, they only use their crappy phones and those retards buy their softwares, music and movies...
Well it's pretty obvious that he was right. People use smartphones more than ever because they're easy and even the dumbest brainlet normalo can understand how to use it.
Jonathan Lopez
The only actual opersting system I can think of that actively discourages users from accessing the file system is iOS, so it seems the idea hasn't caught on among competitors.
And to be honest this is just another form of the very old discussion about simplicity vs usability. I personally don't agree that abstracting files away from the user makes a system much simpler to use. The concept of files allows the users to perform operations generically and is not simply an implementation detail of a particular application.
Isaiah Lee
(OP) People are growing up with iPads and other devices and they don't even know what a file system is. Probably at least two generations of such people. These are probably the same people who call you a "luddite" on Jow Forums when you denounce consumerist gimmickry. Funny how in the age of technology, tech illiteracy is at an all-time high - "What's a computer?". No, tapping your phone screen and knowing which hot-topic social media service to use doesn't constitute technology. What Steve Jobs describes is the ever-expanding abstraction tech megacorps use to foster illiteracy in the populace. It's sick.
Noah Wright
it's funny because i hate windows for trying to do this.
Ryan Flores
i organize them myself manually (with the help of total commander and foobar) when i have some spare time or if i download something new. like this: musicfolder/artist/date - albumtitle/01 songtitle.mp3
works fine fore me and has worked for 10+ years. also works fine for both my phone and portable mp3 player. :^)
Mason White
He's creating a future where knowing what files are and knowing some java makes you a terrifying menace. Billions of people depending on devices they barely understand.
James Walker
>Hey user, could you share your stuff with me?
>Sure! Let me just copy all my files to a flash drive.
vs
>Sure! Let me just upload all my pictures to instagram to share with you and post all my videos to a private YouTube channel. Or I guess I could just post everything publicly to Facebook, whateves. I'll also setup a shared family account on Netflix and iTunes so you can share my movies and music in a restricted and controlled way. I can't really share my games or books with you though because that would be a DRM violation and my apps prohibit it.
Wow so much simpler a day better, thanks Steve.
Josiah Brooks
That's what Airdrop is for
Oliver Walker
Airdrop explicitly goes against the idea of hiding files from users.
Cooper Collins
>And that was the breakthrough, as an example, in iTunes. You don’t keep your music in the file system, that would be crazy. You keep it in this app that knows about music and knows how to find things in lots of different ways.
Fuck you Steve for 'introducing' this bloated, proprietary pile of shit software to the world. It's one of the main usability factors why I don't want to buy whatever iPortabledevice. I understand that you cannot teach normieshit what ID3 tags are and it really does take a time and effort to figure out how to automatically write/correct them and organize files accordingly (foobar2k syntax, shellscripts, musicbrainz picard or whatever), doing that for trivial entertainment media is for autists, but iTunes is a failed abortion.
However, I do agree that the common person has very hard time grasping structure of storage devices, partitions, directories, files, file extensions, different file formats and their purposes, file format versions, executables, processes, services, RAM etc.
How would you explain this shit to your mom who just got librarian's job?
I can tell, it has not helped that Microsoft has turned Explorer UI into a complete clusterfuck after Windows 7 and it's much easier to teach someone to use GNOME Nautilus on Budgie, even as far as how to deal with archives.
>Was he right? Yes, but Jow Forums to kewl to acknowledge it.
Jackson Diaz
Corporations want a future where consumers don't know how their cars, appliances etc work
Eli Mitchell
glad this faggot is dead fuck him and his company
Jose Campbell
he was actually right. Users should not need to move their shit inside endless folders inside each other. The apps are the new folders.
Chase Long
>I don't know what "Cloud" means, but i use NAS
Jow Forums is so fucking retarded in it's attempts to be contrarian holy fuck
Josiah Robinson
Out of curiosity, does it play FLAC now? Do you use anything for fetching tags from internet, batch editing them and batch renaming and sorting stuff in folders? All I remember that iTunes was RAM consuming and couldn't do much in terms of organization in compared to foobar.
I don't want it to be an argument about media player software, however if iTunes cannot provide these things and it's pretty much the only 'intended' way to do things in Applesoft ecosystem then it aint no good 4 me.
>You don’t keep your music in the file system, that would be crazy. what
Kevin Martinez
A dying breed. Just like kids who would compile their own computer games
Leo Hill
Great, that'll keep me employed.
Tyler Hill
nice pasta
James Lopez
TIL Steve Jobs might have actually died from AIDS, not pancreatic cancer
Hunter Wilson
Yes, but Microsoft 'beat' him to punch by like 15 years. Except they didn't either, since Cairo never shipped and the Object FS still isn't part of Windows.
Cooper Ramirez
That's a terrible future for em, because eventually they will also forget how the things work, and when someone remember, they crumble. Not with a bang, but with a "cheeky breeky apple, give me 3 bitcoins or i your everything"
Gavin Price
What the fuck does he mean by that? How is that revolutionary? Does he know how media players work? The files still exist with iTunes.
John Perry
>He doesn't manage his file system through a REST api Wow what a megababby
Cameron Lopez
corporations sound inheritly evil, not to sound like a fedoralord but that's what they are if their main goal is to turn every potential customer into a thoughtless buypig by using deceptive-as-legally-possible advertising and social engineering.
Jonathan Price
>You don't keep your music in the filesystem, that would be crazy. >Same with photos.
nope, no flac >foobar well, that's even worse. autism man
Liam Moore
collecting and eventually having to do careful organization of thousands of units of whatever over several years is autistic, yes (foobar is a spreadsheet program for that in a way). this is why i mostly find and listen to new shit on soundcloud at this point, local stuff eventually is too much work to deal with just for entertainment purposes and basing significant portion of life around entertainment media ain't healthy.
I'm conflicted. on one hand, people have no idea how to search for things and can't be arsed to organize 'em, so just having software automatically look for and organize things without even knowing what's up under the hood is useful for them on the other hand, the iOS style of handling files is fucking awful and makes it a pain in the ass to handle files between applications or do any real organization when you have a lot of files since each program has its own idea of how to sort things out
really, I think Jobs' is awful with his ideas on handling files remember oldschool Mac OS, where changing what program owned a file or fixing file types was shit that you needed to break out fucking resedit (you know, the programmer's tool that didn't come installed on your machine by default) or something to deal with instead of just changing the extension. The "easy" solution of associating files to specific programs and keeping file types hidden ends up with a whole slew of other issues in practice.
Hudson Murphy
How about just using a magic number embedded in the file format like a real operating system. Labeling files by file extension is a shit poo idea
Dominic Sullivan
That's fucking dumb Guess that explains why ios has the stupidest, most uselessly obtuse file system in the history of modern computing
Yes. Even now with the iCloud Files integration in iOS 11 it's really only useful for edge cases
Jaxson Miller
Yes. Which is why everything should be managed through the file system so normies are forced out of computing.
Charles Bailey
This is the biggest problem with everything Apple does, and its at the very core (hue hue) of their philosophy: This idea that not only should the system try and take care of your shit for you behind your back so that you don't have to know anything, but that it should also try to stop you from saying "Don't do that, I don't like how you organize things, I'll do it myself" This second part is what makes it evil, you shouldn't have to fight the system tooth and nail to be able to control how it works.
This. For all Android's faults, the ability to use things like Termux or Ghost Commander makes it immensely more useful as an actual computer I exert control over, even without full root.
Nathaniel Morales
He's sorta right about email I guess. He's a faggot for thinking it applies to anything else he listed though.
Aaron Wood
god, I'm so glad he's dead
Logan Bennett
>as an example, in iTunes. You don’t keep your music in the file system, that would be crazy.
What kind of contrived shit is that? When my iCucked friends want to share photos/videos they just send them via SMS/iMessage or email. Lots of collaborative productivity is done via cloud services like Google Docs nowadays, and DRM sure as fuck isn't iOS exclusive.
There's no question that the file manager-less model makes sharing arbitrary data less convenient in the long run but pulling shit out of your ass like this just makes you look like a fucking idiot.
Aiden Sanchez
I hate this philosophy, I want to know where the files are on the system so I can move them around or organize them however I want, or use them between different programs easily. Basically they did focus tests on low-IQ normies and figured out, surprise, they can't use computers properly. They will never be able to. There's no need to go nuts and turn the system into an app-centric monstrosity.
Gavin Nelson
At least it's easy to sideload Filza or iFile now. Thanks apple.
Grayson Evans
>Was he right Have you ever tried to manually get files from a Mac OS 10 system? It's pain in the ass.
Cooper Sanders
how is a file system confusing? and using itunes to move music from your computer to an ipod is unbelievably unintuitive.
Adrian Collins
Appletards find two button mice confusing. Let that sink in.
Jonathan Hughes
Macos at least forced users to use the file system directly when adding and removing applications, rather than using abstracted """wizards""" like wintoddlers
Jason Brooks
I'm amazed mactoddlers can breathe on their own without assistance.
Thomas Wood
It does not. Your file manager is capable of reading the metadata from files, but your filesystem does not know shit about the metadata in your files.
