Will desktop computing move beyond the start menu?

Show me alternatives.

It did, even before 95 was even released.
Most people are stubborn normies who don't really need superior launchers, so windows will probably keep it.

dmenu

It did. There is no start menu on a Mac. It's easier this way because all I have to do is pull up Spotlight and type the name of the program. If I forget the name of the program, no big deal: I just won't use that program that day. There is a small icon bar that can hold links to maybe a dozen programs, and that's more than anyone ever needs so everything's great!

>implying you can't do this on Windows
- Press Windows key
- Type name of program
- Press enter
Wa lah, you're using your program

Spotlight?

Most people travel the same way they did in the 1920's. There's no point in changing unless something better comes along and web browser developers have proven how retarded UX can be when you throw everything you know out the window.

Just keep the programs in one folder
But then the annoying start menu also pops up

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this

it's like if the windows start menu was just the search box

no

Hopefully not. Stop changing shit for no reason.

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When will desktop computing move beyond the keyboard?

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Will dinner move beyond fork and knifes?

Chopsticks gunna take over bro.

if it was up to the gnome developers they would remove all utensil bloat and everyone would use only their hands to eat because muh minimalism

>But then the annoying start menu also pops up
So what you're saying is you want gnome.

I don't use start menu at all.
All my programs shortcuts are on buttonbar of my total commander.
I dropped my dependency of start menu when m$ showed that they can take it away any time.

> What are smartphones?

>glorified clockholder
it already has

>glorified cockholder
help

>m$

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>typing things
normies won't use it

most people either a: just type the name of what they want to run or b: click one of the dozens of program icons on their desktop
no one really digs through the start menu anymore

It's "voila" you dumb fucking nigger

Yes, once we step away from 2D monitor output.

> wa lah
could be an 'azn' 12 y.o circa 2004
> u like bubble tea lah??!?

>it breaks context
how do you use a start menu for that actually keeps the context, if you use it to start new instances of programs?

the biggest problem I see in practice is that people try to use the out-of-the-box garbage filled screen instead of arranging program tiles by themselves. so the problem isn't as much with the concept of a start screen, just the bloated defaults

DISNEY MAGIC KINGDOMS

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But it did in Windows 8 and it resulted in a literal shitstorm to bring the start menu back

people having baby duck syndrome doesn't make the old solution better

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You know, you can make the menu fullscreen in Win10.

I know and I do

it's a gorillion times better than the menu, as pictured above

>have to always move mouse

Stopped reading there.

This. The windows 8.0 start menu was pretty good. Making it fullscreen not only makes it faster since you don't need to scroll around much, but also is much cleaner since you only see the start menu.

Windows 8.1 was much worse when they added all kind of crap to the search, which often resulted in opening a Bing web search instead of the program you searched for.

CIA pls

Not really. There's still a start menu, but nowadays you open the start menu and then type what you want rather than manually clicking the shortcut.

That's what you CAN do, and what you're MEANT to do, but that isn't what he said.

not desktop computing

>i navigate the start menu with the keyboard
fyi the start screen is also better in that regard

>mouse
Who uses the mouse to use the start menu?

How do I remove all of the entries in win10 start menu?

normal people

the whole point of a program menu or screen is to graphically show a set of available programs which you can then graphically browse. clicking a pinned program is often faster than typing to search and waiting until a result is found. now the point of a screen over a menu is that you get more pinned programs laid out in a more organized way

if you only use type to search to launch programs, it makes no functional difference between menu and screen

>right click
>unpin from start

I navigate the start menu with the arrow keys.

90% of the kids in my uni have macs and wouldn't know the first thing about how to operate the start menu. And this is the computer science crowd, mind you. I reckon the rest of the student body was born and raise on iOS or android.

REMOVE
R-E-M-O-V-E

thats the best interface for mouse use.

hopefully not. along with the taskbar showing open applications, it's familiar design with no obvious issues. it's stupid to change it for the sake of it if it ain't broke.

however, one thing i'd like to change is to have the Web browser integrate with the OS taskbar instead of having its own shitty tab list. now that would be an improvement since having 2 taskbars is redundant.

>a start screen is much more convenient and functional than a cramped menu, though
Not in my experience. Start "screen" manager to show less info/apps/whatever than a tiny Start "menu".

In the end I have to move mouse across the whole screen to do the same. It I had a tablet, that might be reasonable, but I use Windows on my PC.

Same shit with retarded Gnome devs. Their abomination of a DE is barely usable with standard PC input devices.

>Start "screen" manager to show less info/apps/whatever than a tiny Start "menu".
how did you get to this conclusion?

>It I had a tablet, that might be reasonable, but I use Windows on my PC.
another odd conclusion, used Win8 on a thinkpad tablet for a while, found the screen to be actually more usable with a mouse than touch

>how did you get to this conclusion?
I used Windows 8.

>another odd conclusion, used Win8 on a thinkpad tablet for a while, found the screen to be actually more usable with a mouse than touch
Same as before. Giant squares all around the screen. Way more mouse movement than with Start Menu.

giant squares are easier to hit fast, though. your cursor might travel more distance but at higher speed

I already have. dmenu is more efficient than any startup menu.

I didn't like the start menu at first (win95)
One extra click 4 everything.

Nowadays I just pin my stuff to the bottom bar I very rarely click the start menu. Better. Win10

>your cursor might travel more distance but at higher speed
Which means that I have to move my mouse more every time. This is not efficient. And this leaves less space for information (once again, win 8 start screen).

If you want speed, use search or some kind of app launcher like rofi or dwm in Linux.

Yes. one of you likes tiles, other one doesn't.
Just stop your autist meltdown. Both of you.

If only Windows did not insist on always putting back useless shit, it might have worked

>Which means that I have to move my mouse more every time
use a higher mouse speed and/or enable mouse acceleration

>And this leaves less space for information (once again, win 8 start screen)
what information do you need when you just want to launch a program fast, other than the name and maybe an icon?

>If you want speed, use search or some kind of app launcher like rofi or dwm in Linux.
having to type a program name is not as efficient as one-two clicks if you're working in a GUI and already have one hand on the keyboard and the other on a pointing device

We're moving to unusable tablet garbage now.

>use a higher mouse speed
Already at 1600DPI.
>and/or enable mouse acceleration
Absolutely hate it. Zero precision and no possibility for muscle memory.

>what information do you need when you just want to launch a program fast, other than the name and maybe an icon?
Name and icon is enough. Problem is, they don't fit on a single screen. And grouping was horrendous. If I remember correctly, they even auto-expanded folders.

>having to type a program name is not as efficient as one-two clicks if you're working in a GUI and already have one hand on the keyboard and the other on a pointing device
False.
Mouse:
1. Navigate to a launcher and click it.
2. Find the needed information on a screen
2a. If information is not on a screen, scroll to the next one and repeat
3. Move mouse to the needed icon and click it
4. Return mouse to the area you want to use it
Every step takes time, presision, hand movements
Keyboard:
1. Press shortcut
2. Enter part of the name
3. Hit enter
Almost instant.

>Zero precision and no possibility for muscle memory.
you can get used to it and it's fairly precise once you do. though it depends on the hardware as well, some mice have horribly tuned hardware acceleration with annoying angle snapping. people are not tuned to think linearly anyway, e.g. that's why loudness scale is usually logarithmic

>Problem is, they don't fit on a single screen. And grouping was horrendous. If I remember correctly, they even auto-expanded folder
sounds like you were using the "All Programs" sub-menu that's indeed shit, instead of pinning your apps to the start screen

>False.
Mouse (+Pointer)
1a. hit WinKey - while simultaneously
1b. move mouse quickly to general area where the group of programs you want to launch is
2. point on specific tile and click, pinned program opens

>Keyboard only
1. hit WinKey
2. start typing, verify if first result found is the required one
3. continue typing or select further result with arrow keys (very slow)
4. hit enter, program opens

keyboard only has more steps that take more time. it's faster than navigating a menu but slower than a start screen. it also depends what your initial position is, either both hands on keyboard or one hand on keyboard and one on mouse. but in Windows, more often than not, it's the latter

You can do the same thing since xp just using docked folders with links in them. No one needs/wants 50 programs cluttered around on their desktop.

xlunch is good, you can use it like dmenu and you have icons so you can launch by click too.
It is lightweight and fast, only imlib2 as dependency.
You can type program or click, best of both worlds.
The only problem for normies is that they can't into configuration by editing text files even if it's simple as taking shit.

>people are not tuned to think linearly anyway
Everything you manipulate in the real world is linear.

> some mice have horribly tuned hardware acceleration with annoying angle snapping.
Mine has neither. It uses 3360 sensor.

>sounds like you were using the "All Programs" sub-menu that's indeed shit,
Which is the "Start Screen", about which the thread is.

>Mouse is faster
If you are using pre-set apps, you may just put them in desktop. This will either save you a click or be exactly the same

>Keyboard is slower
1. It doesn't require any visual searching, precise cursor positioning and arm movement.
2. You have 10 fingers at your disposal, which is faster

>Need to check
Seems like you are using some universal search option and not an app launcher. In the latter case you need at most 3 letters (which is instant even with terrible typing speed) and enter.

>both have "type to search"
That's why I use dmenu. The start menu has no point if you know the names.

>Everything you manipulate in the real world is linear.
e.g. change in speed (acceleration)

>Which is the "Start Screen", about which the thread is.
not really
the "All Programs" menu is a secondary component, the primary component are the pinned tiles. if you're primarily using All Programs, you completely missed the point of the start screen and used it like a worse start menu

>If you are using pre-set apps, you may just put them in desktop. This will either save you a click or be exactly the same
the start screen is an improved concept of desktop items - you can bring up an organized set of programs at any time, without having to minimize everything to go back to the desktop. while not cluttering your desktop with program icons that you don't need to see most of the time

>1. It doesn't require any visual searching,
that's why you put and group your tiles in a way that you will remember where everything is and quickly identify the correct tile. with a menu/list, you have to spend more time reading words, which is much slower than identifying something by an icon at its expected location
>precise cursor positioning and arm movement.
>2. You have 10 fingers at your disposal, which is faster
mice are more than sufficiently precise, tiles are big and easy to hit. if you have the correct mouse sensitivity, you only need to flick your wrist, not move your whole arm
if you had your hand on the mouse already then you have only 5 fingers available until you waste a second to move your other hand to the keyboard

>In the latter case you need at most 3 letters (which is instant even with terrible typing speed) and enter.
Until the order changes or a name overlaps for 3+ letters

>e.g. change in speed (acceleration)
And even your gas pedal is linear. You wouldn't expect it to be pressed 90% if you press it only 20% but slightly faster than usual, would you? Steering is a great example. Imagine you are making a turn, but your wheels move more or less depending on the speed with which you turn the steering wheel. I guarantee a huge increase in accidents.

>not really
>the "All Programs" menu is a secondary component,
It was the main option in Windows 8. Gladly, they changed it with Windows 10, because it was shit.

>theimary component are the pinned tiles. if you're primarily using All Programs, you completely missed the point of the start screen and used it like a worse start menu
What you are talking about is a start menu with square shortcuts, not a start screen.

>the start screen is an improved concept of desktop items
What?
>you can bring up an organized set of programs at any time, without having to minimize everything to go back to the desktop.
If it's large enough, it's exactly like the desktop.
>while not cluttering your desktop with program icons that you don't need to see most of the time
Do you stare at your desktop? If not it's the same. Only difference is that instead of opening the "start screen" you change workplace or show desktop.

. It doesn't require any visual searching,
>that's why you put and group your tiles in a way that you will remember where everything is and quickly identify the correct tile.
So you just use it as a desktop like everyone since windows 95.
>with a menu/list, you have to spend more time reading words, which is much slower than identifying something by an icon at its expected location
You can do structured menus/lists if that's your thing.

>mice are more than sufficiently precise, tiles are big and easy to hit.
So you need giant tiles not to miss, but claim that it's precise? Ok.
> if you have the correct mouse sensitivity, you only need to flick your wrist, not move your whole arm
And be even more accurate not to miss.
>if you had your hand on the mouse already then you have only 5 fingers available until you waste a second to move your other hand to the keyboard
1. A lot less than a second.
2. You can do it while your other hand fires launcher with a shortcut

>Until the order changes
What? The point of launcher is that it does not require an order.
> or a name overlaps for 3+ letters
Provide one example where program needs more than 3 letters to be identified.

Who cares? They use wangblows, they'll eat shit as long as it's the default setting on their machine. Why do you want to convince a bunch of windows users anyway?

>can't use the mouse
good luck getting anyone that isn't autistic to use this

>verify if first result found is the required one
First result found should always for everyday usage be the required one. If it isn't your launcher is shit.
>it also depends what your initial position is
That's an issue for a start menu/screen as well.

>Until the order changes or a name overlaps for 3+ letters
A good program launcher will order your list by frequency use functioning similar to "pins" without having to do anything yourself. Every program launcher should allow some programs to have higher priority working exactly as pins. Moreover if it is used quasimodally it workflow becomes very fast and intuitively. Windows Start Menu search ISN'T a good program launcher (probably not even a good universal search system) and it seems your issues are relevant to it.

Im from Australia and most of the Computing crowd are poor neets who bring in scuffed out Hp's and Dells

I have been using KRunner to search/launch/do fucking everything for years. So yes!

this

mouse is slow

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>Gimp 2.8
Are you on Debian?

you mean the wimp paradigm or the fact that you can actually access the filesystem?

it's 2.10, i just don't like the new theme or icons

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Ok then.
>Not 2.10.2
But seriously, I hate the default icons. Have been using new ones since 2.9

symbolic icons are one thing, but i just don't understand monochrome icons
monochrome elements don't stand out, use them for things that shouldn't stand out, like decorations
the toolbox icons should stand out, they're common tools which are accessed often, so it helps to find them both by shape and colour

For the one in 8.1
It takes over the entire screen in a abrupt way, uses a completely different navigation scheme, obfuscates the existence of some applications and the other functionality that is usually accessible from a standard start menu, it hides the other files like readme and auxiliary programs, it interrupts natural reading flow of ltr. It was just poorly designed.

>Not 2.10.2
heh, must have shown up within the last couple hours

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a gas pedal does not directly control speed. a steering wheel does not directly direction of travel, sometimes not directly even the turning angle of wheels.
a mouse directly controls the position of the mouse pointer.

>It was the main option in Windows 8
can't remember for sure if it was in 8.0 but I think it still wasn't, it was definitely pinned tiles in 8.1
looking it up on youtube it also looks like it's pinned tiles by default

>What?
labeled icons spaced out over an area that start things when you click on them.
except with a start screen you can very quickly call it to the foreground without explicitly hiding other applications to get to the desktop.

>You can do structured menus/lists if that's your thing.
menus with more than a direct list are slow to navigate compared to a flat list.
or a start screen.

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>It takes over the entire screen in a abrupt way
how is it abrupt?

>uses a completely different navigation scheme
obviously, fortunately a superior one

>obfuscates the existence of some applications and the other functionality that is usually accessible from a standard start menu
can only think of the "Recent Items" element, which was disabled by default since Vista and most people didn't seem to even notice it
you can still access everything else from All Programs or search by typing

>it hides the other files like readme and auxiliary programs
not sure what you mean by this

>it interrupts natural reading flow of ltr
what is there even to read in a start screen and how does it exactly interrupt LTR reading?

>So you need giant tiles not to miss, but claim that it's precise? Ok.
Point is the combination of mouse precision and the size of tiles allows for very quick targeting

>1. A lot less than a second.
>2. You can do it while your other hand fires launcher with a shortcut
it's still going to be slower than bringing up the start screen and clicking a pinned program

>Provide one example where program needs more than 3 letters to be identified.
Notepad
Notepad++

Not satisfying to type on. Then again, by the time we have these, most people will just use their smart appliances to write their novels

>No no no, this is too bland
>Alexa, add a plottwist

Lol, I understand you're used to the line by line nitpicking working, clearly evident from previous comments in this thread, but I don't care. If you want to purposefully fain ignorance while doing the I don't understand anything routine that's your issue not mine.

>Point is the combination of mouse precision and the size of tiles allows for very quick targeting
Once again:
1. mouse is not precise, since you need large squares not to miss.
2. Large icons mean there is less useful information on the screen
2a. You have to group them and cover the working area
3. You are basically using "start screen" as a glorified and ugly desktop

>it's still going to be slower than bringing up the start screen and clicking a pinned program
As you can see here , it's faster. And works with ANY program, even if not specifically pinned and memorized previously.

>Notepad
Any 3 letters from the name
>Notepad++
"d+" or even "+"

>Will desktop computing move beyond the start menu?

F2