JavaScript was a mistake

Browsers contribute to the slowness of loading a page

js bloat is just meme by Jow Forums NEETs who fiddled with jquery and php for 2 days and thought this how modern web works.

The fact is modern websites like discord, twitter and medium offer much more functionality and performance improvements that it would take Jow Forumshacks years to understand

>superfluous
how else do I make a web page interactive using only the front-end?
>insecure
security is meant to be handled with backend programming.

Yall are hating on a hammer for being a bad screwdriver.

>muh i prefer bloated frameworks, ram eating browsers and my privacy fucked for two animations on a web page

A well designed system could also be without js

>A well designed system could also be without js
omg you're actual retard

.header:hover + #.content {
visibility:visible;
}

>you can't design good systems without js

javascript isn't the issue. the issue is and has always been weakly-typed systems, which are 99.99% of the time pure AIDS.

>caring about looks
>boring
What matters is content. If a website needs fancy graphics, bloat and animations to be worth visiting, it's shit anyway.

actually no you can't design a functional website in 2018 without javascript

So you're saying there was not one single well designed system before JS saved us?

>The WorldWideWeb (W3) is a wide-area hypermedia information retrieval initiative aiming to give universal access to a large universe of documents.

Please enlighten me about this "functionality" they offer that needs so much bloat.

That has nothing really to do with JavaScript. That's the idea of running code locally and immediately that's been requested with a website over HTTP. Or with the way people want to track everyone.

Thas rite.

You could do it on December 31st 2017, but not on January 1st 2018.

>you can't design a functional website in 2018 without javascript

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That's a retarded point you're trying to make. You can make a great functional website in 2018 without JavaScript. But you can not create a web application that needs to have interactivity without having to reload the page with for every single small interaction.

The problem then is that we don't have a protocol and a client that is made to perform that task.

My website I put together for my webcomic uses 150 lines of vanilla javascript to facilitate image-swapping.
This is so I don't need hundreds and hundreds of different pages for each comic image.
This is also so I don't have to load hundreds and hundreds of images on a single page all at once.
Does this qualify as bloat?

DOM was a mistake
Fight me
>protip you can't

>using vanilla javascript
not portable

There's almost nothing wrong with it aside from its speed. It allows you to do anything, it's easy to write, it's easy to read, it's fast to develop in, it lets you do stuff other languages can't do. If there was a systems language with the ease of use and freedom of js I'd have no reason to use anything else.

It works on browsers and phones, I don't know where else people are going to read my webcomic.

More secure than C and it doesn't really even have that much useless features.
web apps have their legit uses

>More secure than C and it doesn't really even have that much useless features.
js literally only exits for webpages to data mine you.

Javascript's primary features are insecurity, just not hardware insecurity. It's a malware-only VM.

alright retards, tell us how to make a facebook like website without using javascript, I won't argue more with hacks like you who think that a website that can't be fully loaded in lynx is a botnet

It's literally a boitnet though, facebook posts are or were legitimate DDoS tools til recently? Maybe they still are.

PHP ya dummy
I made a social network in college that wasn't as flashy as facebook, but was certainly as useable (no livechat tho, which I guess is a big draw). I also hosted it on a free server, so it couldn't support that much traffic, but the structure was there.
PHP + HTML + CSS only
Of course I'm not saying that CSS isn't incredibly helpful.

you guys are literal retards

Recreating javascript based botnet pages isn't a goal anyone should want to attempt. There's tons of parts of javascript that exist solely to profile and track you. There used to be easy addons to disable specific parts of the DOM and any site that broke because of it was clearly a bad actor.

Nowadays there are no browser extensions and your hardware is even vulnerable if they keep going the direction Chrome is in.

Fucking faggot, I literally said you can't make a website that requires on page interactivity without forcing a reload. Also, you can use Facebook without JavaScript, it will just require a reload constantly.

>parts of javascript are bad
>all of javascript should be thrown out
>parts of English are bad
>we should all speak Icelandic instead

Parts of javascript are only bad AND all of javascript should be thrown out. Anyone who uses javascript should also be thrown out.

say that to my face fucker not online and see what happens

Hello Hitler.

t. Guy who writes buggy c++ "modular" "apps"

Are you implying only jews, homosexuals, and gypsies write javascript?

> Fucking faggot, I literally said you can't make a website that requires on page interactivity without forcing a reload

I do SPA apps for a living

I'd say you are a literal retard both online and in real life

Facebook is actually pretty easy to implement. The 2004 version only used rudimentary javascript that could be there server side

Just kill Oracle

Stupid teen boomer
Don't immediately jump to hating something before you understand it, just because you saw someone else do it

This is also a fine idea but doesn't stop the JS menace.

Stupid """frontend engineer""" dont immediately jump to defend JS just because you don't understand it but see other people use it.

Contrarianfags here tend to forget Jow Forums relays on JS to work. If it is so bad, I suggest... NO! I CHALLENGE YOU TO WRITE A NEW Jow Forums SITE WITHOUT JAVASCRIPT. COME ONE SMARTASSES, SHOW ME WHAT YOU CAN DO!

>I CHALLENGE YOU TO WRITE A NEW Jow Forums SITE THAT'S JUST WHAT Jow Forums USED TO BE

Woah.

Just as it used to be, alright.

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>a functional website has to be like facebook
Stop. You're embarrassing yourself.

>all websites without javascript can be fully loaded with lynx

>insecure
Tell me one language that wont be insecure if its used in a browser.
>You can't
Web pages ALWAYS gonna be insecure in som degree.

just because you are not able to understand ES >=6 you call it a mistake. The funny thing is that some idiots hates JS and defends python . Both are the same shit.

Python is very useful for automating tasks, making it a more structured shell, JS on the other hand is horrible for anything.

>t. read how to automate the boring stuff
No, JS is awful for anything but python's not special. Very mediocre language.

If python was exposed for any 3rd party to run software on your machine then it would be just as bad securitywise while having better language structure and features.

The best choice is: Go in Backend, CS in Frontend. JS is unnecessary.

On Backend:
Top Tier: Go, C(CGI)
Mid Tier: Python, Ruby on Rails, Perl, Scala
Low Tier: PHP, .NET , Java
Shit Tier: Node.JS

`this = that`
FUCK JS, Use GO.

Frontend doesn't even matter in an era of wasm, JS is already doomed.

Web was a mistake

So, are you suggesting you're having difficulties loading websites right now? Because taking away something positive, for a benefit only 3rd worlders will see, doesn't make too much sense. Could you imagine Skorea having people like you bitching about webpages needing to be less than 1MB when they have 1Gbps speeds.

>we have 1gps internet speed
>why don't make webpages 100 mb heavier

that kind of mentality on everything is the downfall of mankind

It's not 10mb of content though it's 10mb of waste per 100k of content and that's very bad.

>PHP over NodeJS
lmao

and you wonder why can't find a job

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Thank god I'm not a webdeveloper subhuman

but it would've been the same with C code or C# code or Haskell code

you're worse than subhumans

Allows you to access system API and memory instead of just the DOM like it should. Meltdown and Spectre proof of concepts were done through JavaScript on a webpage. So were a few iPhone and Android hacks. God knows how much Windows malware is out there that can infect your computer just by loading some js.

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This is true. Midori loads extremely fast compared to Firefox. The Firefox delay is real. They both just have an adblock add-on installed. I don't know why the big browsers like Chrome and Firefox are so slow and bloated compared to even the same browsers 10 years ago.

And yet when I visit any random webpage, I don't automatically download and execute arbitrary Haskell code. We're talking specifically about JS designed to be run in a browser. It is very insecure for this context, just like most other languages would theoretically be. A well designed web language should only be able to affect the page and not fuck with the host OS.

>well designed web language should only be able to affect the page and not fuck with the host OS.
but that's a property of the runtime, not of the language

Ok, then the "runtime" was a mistake. Happy now, Mr. Pendantic? The key point remains

>you're worse than subhumans
but still better than a webdev.

Lim x > ∞ wouldn't work, unfortunately. It should be something like y = 2log(2(x+0.25)^2-(x+0.25)) Nonetheless saved.

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>SPA
>Service Penis Anally
sounds about right for you

Nope. You are perfectly right, OP.

Use lua or something. I wish lua replaced javascript. Actually i wish we had neither

>It's superfluous and insecure
>superfluous
thats retarded
>insecure
its a fucking client-side programming language. what exactly do you want to be 'secure' about it
are you talking about server-side JS i.e. node.js dev? any insecurities with node.js have nothing to do with javascript in and of itself

When you consider what it was actually designed for, providing basic dom manipulation, the language isn't too bad and makes sense. All of the typing was designed for graceful failure doing basic shit like changing the color of a . It was never meant for serious work, numerical computation, or business logic.

When you consider WHEN it was made a lot of the deadly mistakes seem understandable because they just didn't know better. If your language has a standard === operator it needs to go straight into the trash and never come out.

There was the idea of progressive enhancement.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_enhancement

Basically the attitude was if the JS doesn't work and provide flashy sexiness then whatever who cares. It wasn't until the advent of ajax calls that JS became permanently required for sites to work.

Are you a fucking moron?

And we all know who invented AJAX. Microsoft.

Everything was doing fine with timed refreshes/requests with parameters. Everything still can.

Why would someone make such an insecure thing? I feel like most people and companies don't care about security.

Is there some workaround yet that allows me to use javascript to modify local file systems from a web browser?

Companies DEFINITELY care about security and privacy. How to invade and degrade it for their benefit. They control the standards.

Nonsens why do you have angular and node-js to change p tags to blue???
Many platforms based on js can do alot of manipulations in any kind and way making it a very functional system

True, but I mean, I feel like security/privacy is always an afterthought by the people who develop things like JS and email. Aren't they (devs, international organizations, etc.) different than companies like Google?

Enumerate precisely the ways in which javascript is insecure.

Its too easy to make a bad configuration which makes it a prime vector for nearly all webxploits and even specter

>It was never meant for serious work, numerical computation, or business logic.
bullshit
>In December 1995, soon after releasing JavaScript for browsers, Netscape introduced an implementation of the language for server-side scripting with Netscape Enterprise Server.
>Since 1996, the IIS web-server has supported Microsoft's implementation of server-side Javascript -- JScript -- in ASP and .NET pages.

was meant to quotelink also:
>Core JavaScript can be extended for a variety of purposes by supplementing it with additional objects; for example:
>Client-side JavaScript extends the core language by supplying objects to control a browser (Navigator or another web browser) and its Document Object Model (DOM). For example, client-side extensions allow an application to place elements on an HTML form and respond to user events such as mouse clicks, form input, and page navigation.
>Server-side JavaScript extends the core language by supplying objects relevant to running JavaScript on a server. For example, server-side extensions allow an application to communicate with a relational database, provide continuity of information from one invocation to another of the application, or perform file manipulations on a server.

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this is from the 90s of course

What is a bad configuration?