Watches with matching beads edition
This thread is about the appreciation of watches and beads, as well as the micro-engineering and materials engineering that are required to make a fine watch, clock, bead bracelet, or other timepiece.
>Required viewing for new people (unironically):
youtube.com
>Thread theme (unironically):
youtube.com
>Used watch guide:
pastebin.com
>Strap guide:
pastebin.com
>Watch essentials 102:
pastebin.com
Previous thread
Other urls found in this thread:
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Forgot my beads
those beads are actually extremely expensive, and serve multi-purposes.
a c c u t r o n
Finally. Fresh thread. What's been happening, m' lads?
Congrats beadfag, you are killing /wt/
sage
I am sad /wt/, my hammy is gone, my amphibia is still in the postal black hole and I only have my beloved F91w to keep me going. I will however be getting a refund for about $800au, so any suggestions in the $400-500US range are welcome. Dive watches are generally my favourites, but I do have a gap to fill with pilot/dress/chronos. I am however a wristlet, so that makes things more difficult. Thanks for reading my blog. I am tempted by pic related (38mm), but the logo is very much making me 2nd guess.
Ok
Is /wt/ dead?
No. wt operates perfectly fine as a one-thread-per-two-days general without constant spam.
>blacked
>spam
?
Yes. Some moron keeps posting the same Vincero and MVMT shitters and gay Instagram "check out my shoes" photos and the thread reaches it's limit before any actual discussion happens. So it's dead now.
What in lvcifers fuck is a "tool"watch?
Just popping by to say the SKX is the perfect watch
Oh shit, Jow Forums is onto me.
Tudorfag is that you?
Keep your cuck shit in pol and I don't have a problem with you.
What other chronos with rotatable bezels are there?
Autavia
I wish they'd stop doing the ROLEX ROLEX ROLEX ROLEX thing on the inside of the bezel, shit is so damn tacky.
It was first introduced as a method to make fakes harder to produce. Outside of photos it's not noticeable at all on the wrist.
But it's dumb.
Its a lot less noticeable on the explorer to the point where it’s a nice little subtlety.
It didn’t work. Why did they think that it would be a challenge to manufacture?
>Only the machining of parts is mostly done by machines
And part of the assembly.
In general, most of the overall production process of mechanical movements (which includes assembly) is done by machines in watches under $15k.
Period.
And the bigger the production numbers, the greater the likelihood of machine involvement (Rolex, ETA, ...).
>The hand finishing of movement components, such as gear tooth polishing, perlage application, and so on
Gear teeth are not polished by hand. They're placed in a polishing machine by hand.
And perlage is often done entirely by machine. See the Panerai video.
>This is such a transparently bullshit claim that it doesn't even deserve to be engaged seriously
People can learn to disassemble and assemble a movement in a few hours, there is no debate here.
>Another transparently absurd claim. There are a tine number of parts in a quartz movement compared to a mechanical
According to deployant.com
Pretty much all of which are assembled, inspected, tuned, ... by hand in a 9F.
>never-mind the lack of a need for anywhere near the amount of adjustment, regulation and testing.
See youtube.com
The crystals have to be visually inspected to find the best ones for high-end quartz, they're individually aged, the individual integrated circuits are matched to their individual crystal's vibrations, there's a separate specialized craftsman who only handles the date change mechanism, etc.
In general, there is less manual work involved in the production and adjustment/regulation of high-end quartzes than high-end mechanicals because there are fewer MOVING parts involved. But the standard to which they are produced, handled, inspected, assembled, ... is very much the same. So it's merely a matter of quantity, not quality. And this is generally reflected in the price.
>Nomos
They're one of the exceptions in the -15k price range, but then they're an exception in many ways.
Whether you prefer a crisp machine-finished movement over a low-level manually finished movement that looks as soft as Nomos' movements is a matter of taste, however.
And that's without even addressing the dumpster fire that is their design department.
I never said it was a challenge but it does increases the cost to make the fake, sometimes prohibitively so. Even that picture shows it's hard to make it look like the real thing.
The laser etched crown is the latest feature they've added. That's even harder to reproduce correctly.
Why would anyone buy an Omega over a Rolex??
Explain why.
implying you wouldnt wear this with a shit eating grin if you got it for free and couldnt sell it
If they were a space exploration enthusiast and wanted a watch that's rated for spaceflight by NASA.
everything I want is too expensive
Last you memed up biz, i was having the biggest laugh
Should I get pic related despite the Powermatic 80 movement? If it had a 2892 I wouldn't think twice.
>Nomos
>They're one of the exceptions in the -15k price range
Jaeger LeCoultre does even more hand finishing on models well below your $15k price limit:
youtube.com
So does Zenith:
youtube.com
With the exception of hand applying some decorative finishes, several other manufacturers do the same amount of hand work as Nomos does, including Grand Seiko, Brietling, and even Rolex does some hand finishing work, essentially 100% hand assembly, and 100% hand adjustment and regulation (see: hodinkee.com
To admit that Nomos does not follow your premise is to admit that most of high-end production watches betwen $3k and $15k are also exceptions since what you admit about Nomos applies equally to JLC, Zenith, Rolex, Grand Seiko, Breitling's in-house movements, Damasko's in-house movements, Tudor's in-house movements, Habring, and others.
In reality, to admit that Nomos is an exception is to admit your premise was totally wrong for watches between $3k and $15k.
I just bought a SCED023 yesterday
:^D
A watch that you use to to check time, while acting like you were a very important someone.
>And part of the assembly.
No. I've so far posted videos from JLC, Zenith, Grand Seiko, Nomos, Breitling, and even TAG showing movement assembly is essentially 100% done by hand. Even the Panerai video you posted only showed setting of jewels into the mainplate on an automated basis, which is perhaps 1% of the assembly process.
Repeating assertions without evidence which have already been demonstrated false doesn't make them any more true, by the way.
>Gear teeth are not polished by hand. They're placed in a polishing machine by hand.
Do you even know what "by hand" means? Are you under the impression that something being produced by hand means it is done without the use of any mechanized tools or electricity? 'By hand' means that it is done by a human being manually controlling a process, and not done by an automated machine. It does not mean it was done without the use of electricity.
>People can learn to disassemble and assemble a movement in a few hours, there is no debate here.
Are you unaware that assembling movements requires the precise lubrication of each part, such as would be required when a watch is disassembled, serviced and reassembled by a watchmaker?
You are claiming someone can learn to service movements in a few hours. This is such an absurd claim it does not deserve serious engagement, since if it was accurate there would be no need for watchmaking schools since any bum on the street could become a watchmaker in a few hours.
>the 9F movements include MORE parts than a typical Swiss automatic.
That article makes no such claim.
>In general, there is less manual work involved in the production and adjustment/regulation of high-end quartzes than high-end mechanicals
Thank you for admitting to being wrong, in totality, from the beginning.
What don't you like about the Powermatic?
IF I EVER SEE YOU I WILL BLUDGEON YOUR HEAD IN AND STEAL EVERTHING YOUVE GOT ILL EVEN RAPE YOUR WIFE
I never said 100% of finishing was done by machine. And I never said regulation/adjustment was done by machine.
What I did say was that, on the whole, the entire manufacturing process for mechanical movements under 15k is largely done by machine.
Your Zenith video in particular clearly demonstrates this.
Nomos is an exception in the sense that they're a pretty small maker who insists on being in-house, meaning they have to do more handwork than larger companies with bigger and better machines.
>rado anything
don't
It' a 2824 that has a lower beat rate (to get the 80 hour reserve), it has no regulator and apparently they bin the movement and fit a new one at service because of how it's assembled.
On the flip side it does have thst 80 hour power reserve and the accuracy from the factory is supposedly within COSC specs.
I really like how it looks and it's a sensible size at 37.5mm. I'm not a wristlet but I prefer smaller watches.
>I've so far posted videos from JLC, Zenith, Grand Seiko, Nomos, Breitling, and even TAG showing movement assembly is essentially 100% done by hand.
Bullshit.
>Do you even know what "by hand" means?
Yes. And saying "gears polished by hand" when it's done in a lathe-like machine is not accurate.
The only time the hand contacts the workpiece is to put it in or take it out of the machine.
>Are you unaware that assembling movements requires the precise lubrication of each part
Which is often done by machine, like Panerai.
>That article makes no such claim.
Literal quote: "It also contains more components than a generic Swiss automatic movement and built to a higher standard."
"It" referring to the 9F.
>Thank you for admitting to being wrong, in totality, from the beginning.
This was exactly what I've been saying from the very beginning.
Direct quote from my post which offended you so: "Pretty much the same level of manual craftsmanship goes into upscale quartzes".
Level, not quantity.
Xth for vintage quality
>accuracy from the factory is supposedly within COSC specs.
Only on the chronometer-rated versions
Oh I see right.
>apparently they bin the movement and fit a new one at service because of how it's assembled.
No, the rumor was that they replaced the escapement, not the whole movement. It's been confirmed that at least on some versions, it's not the case and they just service it.
Add some finishing in there and it would be really nice.
this is a 6.5" wrist. Mine is 6.75" and I REALLY want this watch but I'm still concerned about the size
If I saw movement finishing inside a ana-digi casio quartz I would laugh my ass off.
My Junkers bauhaus 6088-5 just arrived
>You are claiming someone can learn to service movements in a few hours.
Not what I said.
I said "disassemble and assemble", not service.
Stop strawmanning.
Okay, that's better I guess. Depends on whether the version in the Rado is service or not. I suppose in practical terms it shouldn't make much difference to me.
Do you know how much a service costs?
>What I did say was that, on the whole, the entire manufacturing process for mechanical movements under 15k is largely done by machine.
Continuing to repeat an assertion made without evidence, that has repeatedly been shown false with evidence does not make it any more true.
>Your Zenith video in particular clearly demonstrates this.
The Zenith video shows more hand finishing work (as perlage is more work to apply than Nomos' finishing style), and the same amount of hand assembly, adjustment and regulation as Nomos does. Only the machining of parts is done on an automated basis, and this would be the same for Nomos.
What you have admitted about Nomos therefore applies equally to the majority of in-house movements in watches between $3k and $15k, since the manufacturing process followed for in-house movements by JLC, Zenith, Grand Seiko, Breitling, Rolex, Tudor, Damasko, and others differ mostly in the extent of hand application of decorative finishing, but otherwise are a very similar mix of automated machining of components, some level of hand finishing, hand inspection, lubrication, assembly, adjustment and regulation.
>Nomos is an exception
Nomos is only an exception in that they do extra decoration compared to others in their price range, but still less than Zenith and JLC. The manufacturing process is extremely similar to other in-house production movements as all the videos I've posted have shown.
No, I haven't researched that yet. I only saw the watch not that long ago.
>I suppose in practical terms it shouldn't make much difference to me.
Yeah that's what I was going to say.
>Continuing to repeat an assertion made without evidence, that has repeatedly been shown false with evidence does not make it any more true.
Watch the Zenith video you posted.
>hurrr you said Nomos wuz exception
They do slightly more movement by hand than many upscale brands like Panerai, but even in the case of Nomos machines do most of the overall movement production.
>hodinkee.com
>There are stripping machines where raw metal is inserted in one end, and out the other end comes full components with pins already in them.
Jesus Christ.
>Bullshit.
Great argument.
>Yes. And saying "gears polished by hand" when it's done in a lathe-like machine is not accurate.
The only time the hand contacts the workpiece is to put it in or take it out of the machine.
Firstly, by hand means done under manual control, which that process still is and using an actual lathe would also be. Seconly, you don't understand the role manual control plays in polishing metal parts with a buffing wheel but I don't feel like wasting my time explaining it to you.
>Which is often done by machine, like Panerai.
That was only for the jewels in the baseplate at Panerai, which is a tiny fraction of the assembly work, and the videos I've posted from Zenith, JLC, Grand Seiko, and Nomos all do not show baseplate jewel setting or lubrication being done automatically. Panerai is the outlier here.
>Literal quote: "It also contains more components than a generic Swiss automatic movement and built to a higher standard."
"It" referring to the 9F.
Great, they make an excellent assertion without any evidence. Now, can you tell me how many parts are in a 9F movement? Because it does not look like there are anywhere near the same number of parts in a 9F as an automatic movement and I want to see a count to check for myself.
>Level, not quantity.
The amount of skilled labour required to craft something is inextricably linked to its level of craftsmanship. Things that take less time to craft are easier to craft.
>I said "disassemble and assemble", not service.
Gee, what do you think will happen if all those watchmakers hand assembling movements for Zenith, JLC, Nomos, Grand Seiko, Rolex, et all don't precisely lubricate, assemble, and inspect the movement as they go? Do you think the movement will work well if they don't follow those same steps in assembling the movement as a watchmaker would have to follow re-assembling the movement after a service? That's why watchmakers are called watchMAKERS.
>Watch the Zenith video you posted.
The Zenith video shows the exact same production process as Nomos follows. Automated machining of parts, hand finishing of parts, hand inspection of parts, hand assembly of parts, hand adjustment and regulation.
This is the same process, plus or minus some level of decorative hand finishing, by JLC, Nomos, Zenith, Grand Seiko, Damasko, Breitling, and even Rolex and Tudor on their in-house movements.
Fundamentally your mistake is that you see all those machines they use to do automated machining of components and assume they must be the majority of the work, when in reality the machining is the smallest component of the work by both time and dollar value.
>They do slightly more movement by hand than many upscale brands like Panerai, but even in the case of Nomos machines do most of the overall movement production.
LMAO I guess you realized admitting that Nomos didn't follow your bullshit premise demolished your entire argument.
>Firstly, by hand means done under manual control, which that process still is and using an actual lathe would also be. Seconly, you don't understand the role manual control plays in polishing metal parts with a buffing wheel but I don't feel like wasting my time explaining it to you.
The only thing that is done by hand is putting the piece in the machine. This is not "hand polishing".
>Panerai is the outlier here.
Hence "often".
Lubrication has nothing to do with disassembly/assembly however.
>Great, they make an excellent assertion without any evidence.
You have the autism.
>The amount of skilled labour required to craft something is inextricably linked to its level of craftsmanship. Things that take less time to craft are easier to craft.
The fuck are you blabbering about?
Something with fewer moving parts requires less work in an absolute sense, but this has nothing to do with the LEVEL of craftsmanship.
>Gee
Just stop strawmanning.
>The Zenith video shows the exact same production process as Nomos follows.
It shows more of the machine side of things than most of the movement production videos posted.
>LMAO I guess you realized admitting that Nomos didn't follow your bullshit premise demolished your entire argument.
My premise is that "most" of the production of mechanical movements is done by machines.
This very much applies to Nomos as well, even if they do slightly more handwork on the finishing and assembly side of things.
>The only thing that is done by hand is putting the piece in the machine. This is not "hand polishing".
Nope, you can look up how those machines work to understand why you are wrong, because I don't feel like wasting my time explaining to you.
>Lubrication has nothing to do with disassembly/assembly however.
Yeah, movements assembled without lubrication in brand new watches work great! LMAO
>Something with fewer moving parts requires less work in an absolute sense
Correct, it's easier and cheaper to make. I'm glad we agree.
>This very much applies to Nomos as well, even if they do slightly more handwork on the finishing and assembly side of things.
You already admitted "They're one of the exceptions in the -15k price range",
You're only trying to walk back your prior admission that Nomos doesn't fit your claim because you recognize yourself now that it BTFOs your entire argument precisely because Nomos is not at all exceptional in the $3k to $15k price range for in-house movements.
thoughts? is it quartz?
>Nope
Pic related is not "hand polishing".
>Yeah, movements assembled without lubrication in brand new watches work great! LMAO
I was talking about assembly/disassembly. Not lubrication.
>Correct, it's easier and cheaper to make. I'm glad we agree.
Thank you for finally conceding.
>You already admitted "They're one of the exceptions in the -15k price range"
When it comes to certain manual operations like for finishing. Hence my very next line afterwards: "Whether you prefer a crisp machine-finished movement over a low-level manually finished movement that looks as soft as Nomos' movements is a matter of taste, however."
Their movements are still mainly produced by machines. Which was my point from the very beginning.
>assembly/disassembly. Not lubrication
idiot, they go hand in hand
You can't disassemble/assemble a movement without lubricant?
>Pic related is not "hand polishing".
Feel free to to the research to correct your ignorance yourself, since you've obviously never seen someone use a machine like that from a wide angle perspective and don't actually understand where it works or where the manual control matters.
>I was talking about assembly/disassembly. Not lubrication.
OH so you were deliberately trying to mislead people reading your drivel by putting in that comment about ease of assembly and disassembly while NOT meaning it to refer to how movements are actually assembled when watches are made? That is your deflection? That you were only saying that in bad faith to mislead people who didn't realize you were purposefully trying to pull a fast one on them?
I see you are still trying to pretend you didn't admit that Nomos BTFOs your whole argument, so I'll just quote your own words back at you again.
>Nomos
>They're one of the exceptions in the -15k price range, but then they're an exception in many ways.
>They're one of the exceptions in the -15k price range
>exceptions
>-15k price range
Sorry you BTFO'd yourself, but you can't walk it back now.
>You can't disassemble/assemble a movement without lubricant?
And here is proof you were asserting this earlier in knowing and deliberate bad faith to pull a fast one on people who wouldn't realize that the ability to assemble or disassemble movements without lubrication had zero relevance whatsoever to actually making movements in watch factories, which is why watch assembly is all skilled labour by trained watchmakers.
>Feel free to to the research to correct your ignorance yourself
That is not hand polishing. Period.
>OH so you were deliberately trying to mislead people
Get over yourself.
I was talking about assembly/disassembly.
Not that lubrication is that hard to do (machines can do much of it to begin with), just speaking out of principle here.
>They're one of the exceptions in the -15k price range
They do a bit less machine finishing than many in that price range.
But their movements are still largely produced by machines.
>it's another "the same two autists conducting the same argument they've had for years" episode
Autismboy REALLY doesn't like the idea that high-end quartzes are made to the same standard of quality and craftsmanship as mechanicals.
>Not that lubrication is that hard to do
OK, we're done here. There is a limit to how many brazen, knowing lies I'll deal with in a discussion and this crosses it. This amounts to just brazenly lying that watchmaking as an entire trade is "not that hard" because it makes your asinine argument easier to make, and who gives a shit that its transparently, obviously false.
You'll have to go find someone else to annoy with your knowing and deliberate lies, because I'm done playing along.
You do realize that high-end quartzes also require assembly and lubrication, right?
The whole point is to compare the levels of craftsmanship that go into high-end mechanicals and quartzes in the -15k price range. And they do compare very favorably.
Compared to hand-crafting and hand-finishing movement components to a high level, assembly and lubrication is peanuts.
>high-end quartzes
kek
HEHEHEHE I know. It's funny that people pay lots of money for quartz.
>falling for the Swiss luxury marketing jew
It's quartz, automatic versions are 200€ more expensive and don't have a dial that looks as good
Calm down you pompous clown. All it takes is three timezone courses to learn to do a basic service (including timing). $75 per course.
timezonewatchschool.com
What's your thoughts on Dan Henry watches?
is that the baby of a submariner and planet ocean that is missing a couple chromosones?
if it was 2 mm smaller, 3:00 crown, and maybe 5 mm shorter, then you might have a point
>no hacking
>no handwinding
>same movement in $40 Seiko 5
>seven Ess two six meme
>diver
>chronograph
reeeee
>JF factory
at least it's 1:1
Microbrand, quartz shitter, fashion watches, with no horological value. I like their style, though.
Any rich fag want to buy me a gyroturbillon?
find me a quartz movement with the equivalent or higher finishing on the movement than my 1815 lange and i will buy it right now
shitta
save your money and buy a real one, not an "homage."
Some pretty cool designs. I've read good things about the quality. They're mostly quartz which I'm not too fond of, but it makes sense with what he was trying to accomplish with the brand.
The only negative I've seen is that maybe there was a problem with the crystal popping out in a few of the early 1970 models. But it didn't seem widespread.
The only one I'd buy would be the 40mm 1970. $250 for a supercompressor homage with an NH35 and a leather roll doesn't seem too bad to me.
You can buy an NH35 for $40 online and put that in there if you like the design.
What kind of shit brand is this?
A dead one. As you should know, most watch brands died after the quartz revolution.
Doesn't matter. It's a real chonograph from the 40s and doesn't run on a battery. Which automatically makes it better than Dan Henry.
Battery is more accurate and reliable tho
if I'm honest I don't really care about "horological value" and quartz is fine to me as long as it keeps the time. I just really love the style that these microbrands offer without spending too much and avoiding the vintage market. Do you have any recommendations for similar brands/watches that offer the vintage style?
Post wrist shots