Are these things worth it as a boot drive?

Are these things worth it as a boot drive?

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msi.com/Motherboard/Z370-GAMING-PRO-CARBON-AC/Specification
overclock.net/forum/6-intel-motherboards/1640221-z370-8700k-m-2-pcie-question-about-pcie-lanes-sharing.html
github.com/enfiskutensykkel/ssd-gpu-dma
alternate.de/Intel/Optane-Memory-32-GB-Flashmodul/html/product/1344878
scan.co.uk/products/lycom-dt-120-m2-ngff-ssd-host-adapter-card-pcie-30-x4-22x80-22x60-22x42mm-for-pc-mac-linux
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overpriced, way too overpriced, but good

The gains compared to M.2 or even a SATA SSD will probably be minimal. You might turn that 9 second boot time into 8 seconds.

hell no

but the random read speeds are at least 4 times faster than a nvme or sata ssd

>X4 faster than a NVMe

You're talking out your ass boy

T. Samsung 970 owner.

This is only good as a scratch drive when editing 8k video. That's about its only use.

Just a boot drive? Fuck no. It's way too expensive to justify anything but some highly specialized use case. For 99.9% of us you're better off buying a 970 Pro for less than half the price.

1. Fuck no
2. Use NVMe

>i dont understand what iops are

>that much of an investment for a boot drive

Unless you're doing professional rendering, don't even consider buying it

Yes goyim buy our fucking 32 gigabyte flash drive for 80 euro

But the smallest 900p is 280GB.

>Are these things worth it as a boot drive?
do you need elevated write endurance on your boot drive, or a ton of QD1/2 random read IOPS?
brobably not, friendo.

these things are awesome for caching metadata for larger data sets though.

something you can't get from intel cpus :^)

Random read latency on the Optane are better than sequential read latency on Evo disks.

I save my anime on pcie ssd and watch them on quad sli with madvr when I don't have to pretend to be working.

Ahahahaha
Ma sides

Thing with optane is you dont need much ram if you have one of these for specific tasks like video and picture editing

Optanes are for SSD caching on, for example, a fileserver, or even Redis.
They're for when you absolutely can't fit more RAM on your machine, and you're willing to compromise with slower memory if it means you won't have to go multi-node.

960pro here ssd are a meme for anything besides a boot drive

Waste as a boot drive. These are for io intensive loads. Any modern data processing type loads, databases, or fairly intensive media editing. That's where these shine.

I was considering buying one as a boot drive for its supposed longevity, apparently they last much much longer than normal SSDs.

If you have the money then yeah it's a better alternative than any other SSD.
I'd say the biggest strengths are the insane random speeds and it doesn't slow down at all when it gets full.
If you have a choice between NVMe and Optane, then go with the latter.

But only if you have a lot of extra money since they're overpriced as hell.
You'll be just fine with any SATA based SSD.

In reality you're not able to wear out any SSD out there, so that's not really a factor you should even consider when buying one nowadays.

ALL OF YOU FAGGOTS FORGET THE FACT THAT:
>Samsung doesn't produce consumer grade PCIe drives

Which means you're stuck with M.2

Which means you're sharing the bandwidth with your SATAs

Which means you're bottlenecked by the abysmally horrid DMI 3.0

>Which means you're sharing the bandwidth with your SATAs
what's that mean

>9 second boot time into 8 seconds.
The fuck? My boot times with cheap ass OEM SATA SSD are ~5-6 seconds on Void Linux.

its a hypothetical you sperg

It means that if you decided on M.2 SSD for system + a couple of SATA HDDs for data, they will all be limited to the atrocitiy called DMI which is a 3.93 GB/s limited link to PCH. Not even directly connected to CPU.

so even if the m.2 drive is NVME it still gets bottlenecked?

>but isn't 3.93 GB/s more than enough?

No it isn't. I can assure you that even with 970 Pro + say, four HDDs on RAID10, you're going to clog that shit up with even moderately intensive workload.

If you run vms on your ssd it'll wreck it

See detailed specs for top consumer grade MSI motherboard:
msi.com/Motherboard/Z370-GAMING-PRO-CARBON-AC/Specification

M.2 slots AND SATA slots are connected to the chipset, not the CPU.

This means DMI.

First time I have heard of this SATA bottlenecking you're talking about. Can't find anything on google about it.

For some operations, the intlel thing is way, way faster and consistent, in others its meh tiers of better.
If you don't know if it would help you, you're not doing anything relevant to reap the benefits of this thing.

Definitely not. A cheaper regular SSD is worth as boot drive. Regular SSD would get you 90% of what Optane gets you for booting up.

These expensive Optane drives have uses for cache for large databases where latency/speed is concern.

I want that extra 10% tho.

continued:
This shit is one of the most deceptive baits that is always written in the most unclear way possible in the specs.

So please, remember: Anything that goes through PCH will be limited to DMI 3.0 speed = 3.93 GB/s. They can lure you with bullshit like "24 PCH lanes, 12 USB 3.1 ports, 10 SATAs, 3 exxxtra hardened M.2" but it all amounts to NOTHING, because ultimately you're limited by DMI.

overclock.net/forum/6-intel-motherboards/1640221-z370-8700k-m-2-pcie-question-about-pcie-lanes-sharing.html

This whole thread for example, took me 10 seconds to find.

Ssds are comfy. Zero noise is a blessing, i still recall the olden days when my data used to spin up and down and skrrt skrt skrrrrrt away all day.
I only keep a harddisk for backups.

Are you an impatient person that has too much money on his hand and is easily convinced into buying things he doesn't really need?
Then yes.

You have a limited amount of pcie lanes fall out of your cpu. The mainboard divides them up between slots, or deactivates slots in certain configurations.
The chipset may provide its own lanes too, which are only indirectly connected.
Z170 typically only had direct pcie3 to cpu on x16 slots (1 16, 2 8 or 1 8 + 2 4)

Retard.

Here, Jow Forums

I got so tired of all the misinformation and assumptions in this thread, I plotted the latency of reading N blocks into RAM. The access pattern is random-sequential, meaning that the start block is a pseudo-random block, and the continuing blocks are read sequential.

I chose to exclude outliers. Each operation is repeated 10,000 times for statistical significance.

I compared a 960 EVO, a 900P Optane and I also included a comparison with an NVRAM disk.

I have used this benchmark on 4.17 Linux kernel (Fedora): github.com/enfiskutensykkel/ssd-gpu-dma
This is a userspace driver, as well as benchmarks.

I may chose to plot bandwidth too, but can we PLEASE end the meme that Optane does not give any benefits? Note how for few blocks, the Optane disk is even faster than the NVRAM disk. This is because the NVRAM disk gives terrible performance for blocks that aren't page-aligned, if I had modified the benchmark to read blocks at 4096 byte alignment (or upping block size from 512 bytes to 4096 bytes), the NVRAM disk would have had lower latency.

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I bet you were pacing around the room almost in tears for 30 minutes contemplating whether you should call someone a mean name or not, s o y b o y

how many times do you boot per minute?

The relevant metric is (disposable income)*reboots/minute

kek

alternate.de/Intel/Optane-Memory-32-GB-Flashmodul/html/product/1344878

The smallest 900p nigger

No I just came across your shit post while scrolling down the index.

It might have wrecked the earlier SSDs where durability was an issue. That's where the whole meme stems from.
Nowadays the durability is measured in petabytes.
You won't be wrecking it with anything you can throw at it.

>Zero noise is a blessing
lmao just put headphones on

Until I bootable NVMe RAID0 a bunch of those Evos together like I did

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> M I C R O S E C O N D S

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Hmm?

With the RAM disk as comparison.

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Only worth it with StoreMi, but even then they should really be about 20% cheaper. But you seem to have no idea what you're talking about or thinking so this seems it would be too difficult to explain to you.

Yes. It's great for that. Which has nothing to do with booting.

Optane is a very niche product and it locks you into the Intel ecosystem which is slowly breaking down.
Anyway, for 99.99% of cases you're better off with a standard off-the-shelf NVMe SSD.

Is this what autism looks like, Jow Forums?

It's not a shitpost, prove me wrong you can't. I know I've killed plenty of enterprise class SSDs with constant vm usage

>locks you into the Intel ecosystem
Huh? It's AMD platform only. Only works well with StoreMi.
Please don't be this new.

>Only worth it with StoreMi
I thought that was only for hard drives

No you can select anything you want for fast and slow drive.
SATA SSD fast tier, HDD slow.
Optane SSD fast tier, SATA SSD slow.
etc.

And tiered storage works way better than caching. It's a driver that combines the two drives into one drive letter and moves what's frequently accessed on the fast drive. Writes are written to the fast drive then moved to the slow so writes are always quick. etc.

Before StoreMi, I'd have said Optane isn't worth it. Now though... it sort of can be. You actually get more performance:dollar than with a fast NVMe, without the drawbacks of storage size thanks to StoreMi, but it's still an absolute higher price.

Yeah I did a bit of research since that post. I'm thinking about buying the 480GB 900p to use with my 2TB SATA SSD. I do some gayman so I thought I'd use the extra 230GB on the 900p that StoreMI doesn't use to put games on so they're always on the faster drive. I realize this is overkill but some games do load faster on NVMe drives than SATA.

You can pay $60 for the license to use more than 256GB for your fast tier drive. It's just 256GB for the free tier included with 400 series boards and threadripper.
You also get the memory cache expanded to 4GB for that, iirc.
Not a big cost when already spending so much on Optane, but yeah, I plan to do the same once I upgrade to 7nm Threadripper.

>I do some gayman so I thought I'd use the extra 230GB on the 900p that StoreMI doesn't use to put games on so they're always on the faster drive
Hm can you actually partition it like that and still use it with StoreMi? I wasn't aware.

Just want to point out that the random pattern isn't random blocks, it's the maximum transfer size (2MB for EVO and 128KB for Optane) with sequential blocks at random offsets.

Samsung buffers a lot in order to really push the bandwidth for sequential accesses, and the transfer size limit really affects utilization of the disk.

>post graphs
>no citations
Worthless, stupid Intel shill

kill yourself, no joke

Uhm, these are my own results.

nah just use m.2

Those won't run on my X58 motherboard but I won't change until at least the first gen of threadripper and ram prices get a bit lower.
Otherwise they are fucking amazing no matter what anons on this board tell you due to being butthurt because it's intel tech.
In very short and simple terms, they are some sort of unholy beast that's in-between "RAM" and a normal "SSD" so they are insanely fast but still not as fast as real ram but on the bright side they are way cheaper than ram which makes some workstations and servers use their 1tb versions because 1tb of ECC ram is fucking expensive my man.

saved thanks for this user this is why i still browse this shit hole
and this is why I hate this place

Just use a cheap M.2 to PCIe adapter bruh

scan.co.uk/products/lycom-dt-120-m2-ngff-ssd-host-adapter-card-pcie-30-x4-22x80-22x60-22x42mm-for-pc-mac-linux

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Thanks user. I'm glad at least someone appreciated my benchmarking and plotting efforts.

This

>Not even directly connected to CPU.
Some motherboards connect the M.2 slot to CPU lanes. If yours doesn't, you can get an adapter that plugs into a free a 4x PCIe slot and gives you a M.2 slot, which will be on CPU lanes if the slot you put it in is.

>PC, Mac, Linux
What sort of Mac are they imagining that you can fit this into?

No, mainstream/gayming-tier loads haven't been bottleneck by modest 2.5" SSD SATA media.

Boot and load time are entirely CPU-bound in this arena.

PCIe SSD media only begin to make sense if you need to quickly move around GiBs worth of data.

>tfw HDD from 2008 is finally dying
is it autistic of me to actually be upset

>I know I've killed plenty of enterprise class SSDs with constant vm usage
No you didn't.

>Just use a cheap M.2 to PCIe adapter bruh

i literally have a 512gb NVME pci drive sitting idle on my desk because i literally have to manually hack my bios to make it bootable on my X58 mobo

Shit makes me feel very skittish.

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>the ABSOLUTE state of intel

Not on Ryzen friendo. NVMe M.2 PCIe drives have a direct 4x PCIe link to the cpu (no chipset etc.).

no

ssd's?

Absolutely, get something cheap used with low hours/total write

legit question about that thing, is the sata on that pci card an extra sata port ? or is does it make the m2 a sata drive ?

It's most likely for SATA (as opposed to NVMe) SSDs, where you connect it to a SATA port on your mobo.

Absolutely not. They're best used in enterprise caching applications.

Sure, at low queue depths.

He's referring to the Optane accelerator thing.

Optane PCIe drives have their own controllers and don't require hardware support.

I prefer to buy a normal SSD to buy this but it may be a personal choise

Only if you're using windows...
If you're Linux, just put GRUB2 on something sata - you don't even need /boot on sata, since GRUB will see the nvme drive anyway (so long as it's a new enough grub version to support nvme - if not, you'll need /boot on sata)

It's exactly that, it connects to a SATA port on the motherboard for m.2 SATA drives.
Also not every m.2 SSD is NVME

>i literally have to manually hack my bios to make it bootable on my X58 mobo
Put the bootloader on any other drive. You can still have your root partition / C: drive on the NVME, even if your BIOS doesn't see it as bootable.

Companies making shit-ton product for fewtubers
Not for general use

Youtubers and video editor worst people less knowledgeable more fringing, crappy thumbnail nothing else

Tech companies licking their ass for advertising

The 900P has its place, just not in gaming rigs. In gaming it'll shave a fraction of a second off load times maybe, and I would absolutely use one if I was given it for free and had a spare slot for it.

But it's worth the money for other tasks. Editing 8K video comes to mind. Other disk intensive data processing tasks too.

thanks for actually running some data through at showing your results.
can I ask why you chose to run a GPU-based PCIe peer-to-peer test though?

It's harder to get a feel for the true latency floors of the SSDs when the GPU's contribution is not known and probably in the multiple us range itself.

Mostly depends on the POST time (more expensive boards will generally take longer to do all the redundant checks) even with a SATA SSD, so the time will vary from person to person.

>can I ask why you chose to run a GPU-based PCIe peer-to-peer test though?
It uses RAM by default, so those results are for RAM.