Apple deprecates OpenGL and OpenCL in macOS 10.14, and will force developers to use Metal instead.
developer.apple.com
>Apps built using OpenGL and OpenCL will continue to run in macOS 10.14, but these legacy technologies are deprecated in macOS 10.14. Games and graphics-intensive apps that use OpenGL should now adopt Metal. Similarly, apps that use OpenCL for computational tasks should now adopt Metal and Metal Performance Shaders.
How do you feel about this, Jow Forums?
good
>How do you feel about this, Jow Forums?
Not surprising, one more sign they don't want people to actually use there hardware to do actual work.
Really a facebook machine at this point, it's almost ridiculous how they can't do even one thing right.
sad
Ensures that most games won't bother with a MacOS port.
So they literaly killed the mac gaming scene and hackintoshes with it
Thanks for OpenCL faggots.
exactly, I was working on a game engine with some friends as a side-project, and we were wondering about whether or not we should add macOS support on our todo list.
I guess we’ll stay with Windows and GNU/Linux support only, and add macOS support only if it becomes somewhat popular.
you can still do it as long as you only use openGL 4.1 or earlier
What are some logical explanations to this choice?
This seems like a special kind of retardation, to throw all that integration and support work away, and not even open-sourcing it, and making it a external module.
You mean applel deprecates themselves.
twitter.com
It's 8 years old version they had. Every year that passes they fall farther and farther behind. At some point it's better to just throw it away.
this is a bad thing how?
They can lock people into their platform more easily. Also they don't have to deal with the opengl standards body.
Realistically though this will only hurt small-time devs which use custom rendering engines.
Khronos/Valve already solved the problem
github.com
My guess is they can have better control over what people do on their platform, and lock people on specific hardware such as only GPUs supporting Metal. This can also kill Hackintoshs and so avoid any piracy of their OS.
Just a guess though.
>"@byuu_san Is there no chance of using Vulkan, or would that take too much of a rewrite?"
Isn't vulkan based on opengl? That's what I remember
fpbp
Let both die.
OpenGL failed and hopefuly vulkan takes it's place.
OpenCL died at childbirth because of CUDA.
>OpenGL failed
how old are you?
>Freetarded faggots lose again
lmfao
But what about vulkan?
>hackintoshes
They use the same GPUs as real macs.
>This can also kill Hackintoshs
Can this really KILL Hackintoshs? I mean, can't you just use older OS version, like with Windows?
what in the flying fuck is metal?
> macOS loses a shit ton of application support because of this
Yeah, it's the freetards that lose and not those with the proprietary shitOS
>Apple deprecates OpenGL
lmao, they havent even tried to update it past 4.1
really good graphics API (in dev circles it's often considered the best of them). too bad it's proprietary and locked to only mac platforms.
What went wrong brehs?
Why didn't they use this time to push vulkan and metal?
T. Dx12 gtx 1080 fag
Any game built on Unreal or Unity (or any other popular licensed engine) can easily be published on the Mac.
Because Vulkan was late to the party like most other failed "open sores" efforts.
who fucking cares. if you're an apple using faggot, you need to fuck off anyhow.
Vulkan is mature as fuck tho and runs fucking amazing
Doom 2016 runs at 4k absolutely maxxed 60fps+
Sure, but unlike Windows which is eternally trapped in Win32 Hell, Mac developers tend to adopt new APIs fairly quickly as older APIs are deprecated and soon removed altogether. Sticking with an old version of macOS means being stuck with old software too.
that's the game. vulkan and dx12 are tricky to use well. especially dx cause it's documentation is lame
DX12 and Metal were both mature APIs by the time Vulkan finally got its fat ass out the door in 2016.
Yeah dx12 is dead hardly anything used it
Such a shame I get the feeling it only really works on ayyysync compute well.
Although in some games like hitman it Runs very well for me and ofc gow4
Everyone shits over pascal but it actually loves dx12/vulkan if you have a fast cpu
I don't get the hate for vulkan it has always ran pretty noice in windows for me.
Yet to try it on Linux
On mobile it fucking runs insanely well yet also has fuck all games! Z
>implying this is bad in any way at all
opengl and opencl ARE deprecated
yeah, iirc dx12 has a nicer model with it's compute queues, but honestly that's not everything. they're both fine with tradeoffs going both ways, but vulkan just has better documentation.
So dx13 when? Haven't seen a api flop this hard since dx10.x and mantle
maybe they'll make a new one that Diana back on the explicitness. more like metal. that could be a viable alternative to vulkan for some people
Good. OpenGL is a disaster.
Do you have proof to back up this statement?
Metal is proprietary Vulkan.
not related but hackintoshes are also dying.
Apple is gonna start using their own ARM based processors, so running macOS with out-the-shelves parts is not gonna be possible soon.
>CUDA
An open standard can't be killed by a proprietary one. OpenCL is being folded in to Vulkan and rebranded as Vulkan Compute, and even Nvidia supports it.
maclet applel detected
Metal is actually supported by this old ass GTX 560 Ti according to System Information so not really killing hackintosh GPUs
>So dx13 when? Haven't seen a api flop this hard since dx10.x and mantle
How about MS just fuck off and kill DX? They have been ruining 3d for long enough.
>really good graphics API (in dev circles it's often considered the best of them).
Citation needed also remove the cock out of your mouth while you're at it.
hey I got an idea... lets REMOVE an option for developers. sound good?
cant you just use vulkan
its better than opengl anyway
Welp there goes all the OpenGL trashbin games on steam for mac,Devs are just going to do windows and steamOS/Linux then.
not only trashbin indie games but legit ones too.
Opengl or vulkan now?
One less thing to support, but one new thing to learn all over again
>OpenGL
>legacy
>latest release is from five months ago
wh-what?
I believe Vulkan is much lower level than Metal. In my experience, Metal is similar to OpenGL but with better multiprocessing support, a better shading language, and no cruft.
>es2 doesn't support vao
>gl3 requires you to use at least one vao
>glsl #100 uses attribute/varying
>lol let's change attribute/varying to in/out because fuck compatibility
Apple need to work with devlopers or at the very least Unity, Unreal, etc to provide tools to convert the games to being Metal compatible.
giv link please
All open platforms are deprecated by Apple.
U mean saving
Imagine if we had to put with ogl fuck that
>force developers to use Metal instead.
brvtal.
What about vulkan?
it’s still in a very early stage, it won’t be released before a while
That’s what they’ve done for the past four years since Metal was first announced.
Valve just released a dota version for mac that uses MetalVK
>cant you just use vulkan
macOS doesn't support Vulkan either. Soon every mac application is gonna be using a graphics wrapper.
They haven't updated their OpenGL driver in like 10 years. It's the reason GameCube games run like ass on macOS.
>10 years
*8 years, fak
BASED APPLE
If we study the industry history, if Apple doesn't ditch legacy stuff the industry clings to it forever.
>twitter.com
>higan is a multi-system emulator that began
> development on 2004-10-14. It currently supports > the following systems:
> Nintendo Famicom
> Nintendo Super Famicom
> Super Game Boy
> BS-X Satellaview
> Sufami Turbo
> Nintendo Game Boy
> Nintendo Game Boy Color
> Nintendo Game Boy Advance
> Sega Master System
> Sega Game Gear
> Sega Mega Drive
> NEC PC Engine
> NEC SuperGrafx
> Bandai WonderSwan
> Bandai WonderSwan Color
LOL!
HOW CAN APPLE USERS LIVE WITHOUT A 8/16 BIT EMULATOR!!!!!
As usual, nobodies try to gain attention by whining.
OpenGL has always been shit. Why 99% of games (specially the graphics intensive ones) are for DirectX and not OpenGL?
Why is there a need for Vulkan?
Metal is the graphics API that Apple always needed. Native to the system, they aren't dependent on anyone, fast and powerful.
Apple already makes their own GPU's in the most recent iPhones, they will build the API for the GPU and the GPU for the API.
Nobody else can do that.
So they'll run at 100% efficiency, while folks at Windows and Android will have to run at less.
Also, main game engines (Unreal Engine, Unity) already support Metal on macOS and iOS, it's a no brainer.
> macOS doesn't support Vulkan either. Soon every mac application is gonna be using a graphics wrapper.
Vulkan is already a graphics wrapper.
Game Engine --> Vulkan --> Vendor GPU driver
Game Engine --> Metal is the GPU driver
>MoltenVK
Nope. Vulkan is based on Mantle.
>So they'll run at 100% efficiency, while folks at Windows and Android will have to run at less.
lol????
>Also, main game engines (Unreal Engine, Unity) already support Metal on macOS and iOS, it's a no brainer.
That's really gonna help all the games that have already been developed.
>Vulkan is already a graphics wrapper.
Exactly. So what's the point of having a wrapper on a wrapper when graphics companies literally want to write drivers for your OS?
OpenGL BTFO by Apple
GitHub BTFO by Microsoft
Tough week for freetards :)
Not anymore.
I wonder if this means them dropping WebGL support from their browsers, the easiest entry point into providing UI without touching Apple API.
WebGL has nothing to do with OpenGL.
> Not anymore.
What a stupid jackass.
Prove it.
>OpenGL BTFO by Apple
>GitHub BTFO by Microsoft
>
>Tough week for freetards :)
Isn't WebGL just OpenGL ES?
But, OpenGL applications will sitll run on 10.14, and it already hasn't been getting any improvements for years (stuck at 4.1 and no full support for Core Profile iirc)
It's not like it came out of the blue either. Apple's OpenGL implementation has been garbage for a long time, so rather than fixing it they'd rather just push the work onto someone else by forcing adoption of Metal instead.
And people that don't want to adopt Metal can just use a high performance translation layer like MoltenVK to bypass Apples BS.
No.
Not Invented Here syndrome in conjunction with terrible hipster culture lvl 9000
I would understand if they would use vulcan or smth but metal? wtf
Who cares, the few AAA companies who bother will use something like MoltenVK or github.com
If it was a pressing matter - which it isn't - one could probably also build an OpenGL layer on top of Vulkan.
It's a giant state machine that pushes the duty to implement a JIT compiler to hardware vendors, aka people you shouldn't trust with software dev.
Given the state of some Open GL drivers, doing this GL on vulkan thing would be a quite excelent idea, specially for mobile.
>Not Invented Here syndrome
You know what's "invented here"?
In-house CPUs and GPUs.
This. Also I want it for guaranteed OpenGL 1.x support, so I can implement a GUI library without caring for gameshit.
Their Metal implementation is garbage too. The Metal backend for Dolphin was delayed due to hard crashes with complex shaders like the ubershaders.
> Their Metal implementation is garbage too.
Good enough for Unreal Engine...
> The Metal backend for Dolphin was delayed due to hard crashes with complex shaders like the ubershaders.
LOL... of course it's Apple's fault, not they suck.
>that pic
iphone x has 5 bezels(1 on each side + notch), that's the reason why it has less screen to body ratio than phones with 2 bezels.
The dolphin team is quite competent at their shit.
But they do have the tendency of pushing all the buttons of the API and generally end up finding bugs.
Here's the adventures of dolphin on the Open GL land:
dolphin-emu.org
>Good enough for Unreal Engine...
Wouldn't surprise me if some game using a complex shader crashes the whole thing and requires a developer to rewrite it.
>LOL... of course it's Apple's fault, not they suck.
>works with windows, linux, haiku, opengl on mac, freebsd, and android
>NO, APPLE IS PERFECT, EVERYTHING NOT PERFECT IS EVERYONE ELSES FAULT
>LOL... of course it's Apple's fault, not they suck.
Apple was never good with even basic software. They were never good with hardware, too, but they claim to be a hardware vendor, so their software is expected to suck.
Dolphin on the other hand is one of the best organized and most competent emu dev teams ever and they are famous for finding and publishing reports on bugs in gfx drivers.
And who knows how many workarounds Epic had to build for basic things to work.
Try running graphicsfuzz.com