How Evil is America under DnD rules?

>exterminated the injuns
Alot of that can be laid at the feet of people before we were actually a country. By that point, the native american tribes were more like sovereign nations, including some that sided with the Brits. They are among the first big proxy groups who got the dick end of the "Proxy War" stick

You know that Paladins are allowed to exterminate problem Races like Orcs?

Lawful Good

Hitler declared war on US after Pearl Harbor.
>inb4 we knew about Pearl Harbor
The japs still took a swing at us, not my fault they attacked a country so great that Pittsburg alone practically rivaled their steel production

>This is the mind of an Amerifat

I'm not an american, but if we did everything like america, we'd be a super power loved by everyone who isn't France.

>Hitler declared war on US after Pearl Harbor.
His ally did so of course he would.

>The japs still took a swing at us, not my fault they attacked a country so great that Pittsburg alone practically rivaled their steel production
Maybe Roosevelt's posse shouldn't have been engaging in acts of war against Japan? Especially when the Japanese government was willing to work with it or at least reach a settlement?

>France
Hey fuck you buddy !
Not like we secretly like you (or don't like you slightly less than we don't like most of the world) or anything.

France deserves to be raped by the Kunta Kintes it invited. The French Revolution was one step on the Great Cuckening of The West.

>cucked
>safespace
Don't use buzzwords user, it's make you look like an underage faggot. I'm not here to be a cuckold or to make a "safespace" as you say. I understand where racism comes from, and I also understand that there was plenty of establishments in America that would not hire not just "people of color" but as unwanted Europeans such as the Irish or Italians.

Now onto your pathetic "muh nazi's good lies". Hitler held America in contempt calling it "half Judaized, and the other half Negrified" abnd the only good Americans were the German Americans. Roosevelt did not sympathized with the Reds, he say what Hitler and his allies were doing, trying to create a New Order by destroying democracy in countries and creating puppets for the German war machine. Hell, Hitler believed that once Britain was toppled, he would use their (German and British) navy against the Americans. You're beloved "Uncle Adolf" would of hated you unless you're a German American that followed what he wanted. So for all intents and purposes, you're a traitor to the United States of America because you'd be willing to sell out America to an hostile nation.

fighting your enemies is not evil

Lawful Good is not Lawful Nice

>Don't use buzzwords user, it's make you look like an underage faggot.
Don't get all triggered.

>I understand where racism comes from, and I also understand that there was plenty of establishments in America that would not hire not just "people of color" but as unwanted Europeans such as the Irish or Italians.
As they should have. The Irish and South Italians were more dysfunctional than other Europeans.

>Now onto your pathetic "muh nazi's good lies". Hitler held America in contempt calling it "half Judaized, and the other half Negrified" abnd the only good Americans were the German Americans.
He praises America's policies on the Races in his 2nd book.

>Roosevelt did not sympathized with the Reds, he say what Hitler and his allies were doing, trying to create a New Order by destroying democracy in countries and creating puppets for the German war machine.
And we all saw how the USSR was way nicer than the Germans after the war. Good job Roosevelt.

>Hell, Hitler believed that once Britain was toppled, he would use their (German and British) navy against the Americans. You're beloved "Uncle Adolf" would of hated you unless you're a German American that followed what he wanted. So for all intents and purposes, you're a traitor to the United States of America because you'd be willing to sell out America to an hostile nation.
Hitler was willing to support the British Empire until it turned on his country.

>He thinks the Amerimutts were fighting for social justice across history despite evidence otherwise.

>His ally did so of course he would.
And thus, of course we would fight him.

You provoked it though. Japan made no invasions of American holdings before Roosevelt had it interfere with Japanese business.

It shifted over time. Overall, a nation as an entity is inherently lawful.
In terms of history, America starts as chaotic neutral with alot of chaotic good tendencies in rebellion against britian, but as it develops into a nation it becomes lawful, with the south as a rebel state being chaotic neutral at best.
America during 19th to early 20th century had many lawful evil aspects, but ones shared with many nations and empires, entities which must ultimatly make the necessary sacrifices to serve the needs and wants of the state. From the civil war to around ww2 we were lawful neutral with some good and evil put into the mix, from ww2 to around the end of hte korean war we were lawful good, mixing self interest with acts of charity like the Marshal plan or rebuilding Japan. The 50s-70s, america is very lawful neutral but chaotic elements come back culturally, with the fight aghainst this leading to lawful evil tendencies compared to the rest of europe.
I'd say at this point as a nation and on the world stage, we are chaotic neutral with alot of chaotic evil tendencies, in the fact that national self interest has given way to corruption and personal self interest

USSR; LE (as a tyranny)
NaziGermany; LE (as a tyranny)
Ottoman Empire; LE (as a tyranny)
British Empire; LE (as a tyranny)
Britain WW2; LE as the above, just not to that extreme
USA; LE as the above, just not to that extreme

>Terrorized the Japanese
The worst, unprovoked, thing we did to them was force them to open up their ports to trade

All the bad shit that followed came after Japan made it clear they wanted to kill Chinese folks for sport, and make Korea a giant pleasure palace for their troops. It's hard to feel sorry for them- especially when the only defense for their behavior is "Well we were just doing what you do". Sheer whatabout-ism, but such is the way of international politics

>It shifted over time. Overall, a nation as an entity is inherently lawful.
In terms of history, America starts as chaotic neutral with alot of chaotic good tendencies in rebellion against britian
>I dun wanna pay taxes

>from ww2 to around the end of hte korean war we were lawful good, mixing self interest with acts of charity like the Marshal plan or rebuilding Japan.
>Neuter Germany and Japan
>Rape Japan's women
>Ban Japan from having a significant military
>Make both bitches

This

If you want to categorize governments the bottomline is always that they are lawful, and if they exert any power to influence their surroundings then they're also "Evil"

which is why alignments are bullshit. If you can't distinguish between the USSR and the USA then the granularity that 9 alignments supposedly provide is worthless. They should have stuck with the original 3

>The worst, unprovoked, thing we did to them was force them to open up their ports to trade
>There were no "war crimes" like rapes of Okinawan women

>All the bad shit that followed came after Japan made it clear they wanted to kill Chinese folks for sport, and make Korea a giant pleasure palace for their troops. It's hard to feel sorry for them- especially when the only defense for their behavior is "Well we were just doing what you do". Sheer whatabout-ism, but such is the way of international politics
Like the Injuns were treated any nicer.

>>>/leftypol/

That just shows DnD (and by other Fantasy) advocates cuck/slave morality. Only the modern bugman thinks you shouldn't do whatever is needed to advance your kin (be it tribe, country, or Race).

The injuns were aggressive and genocidal on their own.

Neutral considering all the good America has done.
>pic related
It’s OP

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>There's still plenty in the America's, but yes they were treated poorly in today's standard.

They were treated poorly by the standards of the time.
Like Britain tried to make America ease up on the murdering of Natives, when you're skeeving out the Brits you need to take a step back.

Compared to what France and Britian wanted done to them, this was an act of mercy. Second, considering if the Japanese built up their military again, their was a likelyhood that they would just become a military dictatorship all over again only now using the excuse of killing communists rather than conquering like barbarians. Finally, the actions of a admitildly sizable minority of soldiers, many of whom were reprimanded, does not reflect the acts and intentions of the state itself.

Not very.
Chaotic Neutral, really.

>good America has done.
Like letting Stalin rape his way around East Europe? Funding and training Islamic forces (see Al-Qaeda and ISIS).

people's alignments vary, governments are usually lawful evil to varying degrees. Weak countries, or countries with a particular dominant culture, can be LN and small isolated ones even try to be LG.

Empire countries like the above are LE.

Apart from like.. the Marshall plan I honestly don't see a lot siince WW2.
I mean individual Americans do a lot of good, individual contributions to charity are pretty high, American people do a lot of volunteering too. But the government?

>the alignment system is useless for determining the difference between apples and oranges
>why the fuck do people still play DnD

ask me how I know you're both morons

>CN leaning CG
>rich cunts use talk of liberty to trick poor people into fighting a war
>After the war, poor people still can't vote
>Still have chattel slavery
Lol

>Compared to what France and Britian wanted done to them, this was an act of mercy.
>Making countries into pawns with no means to oppose you is an act of mercy

>Second, considering if the Japanese built up their military again, their was a likelyhood that they would just become a military dictatorship all over again only now using the excuse of killing communists rather than conquering like barbarians.
Heaven help us if they kill Commi
>Looks at Mao's antics
...oh.

>Finally, the actions of a admitildly sizable minority of soldiers, many of whom were reprimanded, does not reflect the acts and intentions of the state itself.
They're a bitch land and it shows.

America has a law that states if the UN tries to prosecute an American war criminal, the US will invade the Netherlands.
That was a law passed within both of our life times (Unless you weren't around for Bush)

Don't fucking pretend that war crimes don't reflect on the American government.

>Like letting Stalin rape his way around East Europe?

America: *does nothing*
>"How could America let this happen?!"
America: *does something*
>"Unbelievable, do the Americans really think they're the world police?"

>This is whataboutism don't do that
>Yeah we killed the injuns but what about what they did to themselves

>killing is good goym
>*invents military industrial complex*
>we're all in this together, U S A
>*kills enemies of the Jews*
>*lets in Accepted Immigrants*
the only reason the Saudi aren't treated like the dogs they are is because America's too cucked to enforce their own morality

>Marshall Plan
Do Amerifats really think that happened out of sheer niceness and they're singlehandedly responsible for Europe's economic repair

>I... fail to see any wrongdoings here.
OP created a political bait thread on /tg/ despite not playing tabletop RPGs himself.

>Don't get all triggered.
Then why did you green text my sentence user? You're getting mad that calling something "cucked" and saying people are trying to make "safespaces" makes you look like an child parroting words to look cool?
>As they should have. The Irish and South Italians were more dysfunctional than other Europeans.
Not surprised with that answer. Let me guess, only people of Nordic descent are the only "real" Europeans in your eyes
>He praises America's policies on the Races in his 2nd book.
Yes, the "Zweites Buch" which was released in 1928, where he praises America's polices on racial segregation, the Immigration act of 1924, and forced sterilization of mentally retarded people. Yet again, I'm not surprised by your answer.
>And we all saw how the USSR was way nicer than the Germans after the war. Good job Roosevelt.
Your sarcasm is unbecoming. When it's a war of extermination (Slavs where seen in the same light as Jews, nothing but vermin to destroy), I can't fault the way the Soviets dealt with the Germans. I can find fault in what they did to innocent people caught in the crossfire, and I can happily say that I don't support the actions of what the USSR did in the following years afterwards. However, if you believe the Third Reich would of been nicer then the USSR, then you're delusional.
>Hitler was willing to support the British Empire until it turned on his country.
Because they're Germanic. He believed that all people of Germanic origin should stand together, even though the British see themselves as British. You seem to forget that Hilter had woefully little knowledge of the world outside of Germany, thinking that Britain would work with them (considering since the British have always made sure neither France or Germany were able to take over Europe in it's entirely) or the United States would be swayed into their thinking (even with all the policies Hitler admired, Americans still despise tyranny in all it's forms).

>Different people have different opinions

That's a strawman if I ever saw one. No one has claimed that.

Don't do stupid shit all the time, and maybe people won't call you on doing stupid shit.
Don't give yourself global juristiction and then fail to uphold your own rules.

It's simple.

fuck off back to your flag board

You clearly don't understand how things work here user. The more we fuck up, the more we can bitch about everything. And perpetual bitching is the absolute bedrock of modern French culture.

it was literally the same person:
>Like letting Stalin rape his way around East Europe? Funding and training Islamic forces (see Al-Qaeda and ISIS).

In an alternate universe, America armed eastern european extremists and the USSR took over the middle east, and America still got blamed for both things over there.

I admitidly did not know about that one.
Like I said, now we're chaotic neutral with chaotic evil tendencies. I spoke on the war crimes relative to the times the people lived in. Its a time were everyone was commiting war crimes, you measure by degree and allowance. America allowed war crimes but did not activly encourage them, at least at the time. And dresden doesn't count, that was completely justified.

This, political posters are always the worst

Due to the size of the country the government would probably be considered CN or LE depending on how you interpret the "fuck you, I got mine" attitude of modern politicians, while the nation at large would be considered TN with chaotic leanings due to there being too many vastly different groups that are only united in their beliefs that their way is the right way.

>all the good things America has done
>doubles down on his fedora
It’s so easy taking the majority opinion isn’t it? It’s so damn easy to join “lel murica bad” crowd instead of being honest and realizing the world wouldn’t be where it is now without America
>medical advancements
>moon landing and America almost single handedly advancing the humans species into space with NASA
Am I saying other countries haven’t jumped on by now? No.
>scientific advances
>coming to the Allied Nation’s aid in WWI and WWII
>currently funding NATO so the West can be peaceful and prosperous
>largest foreign aid provider
Etcetera.

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>Lawful Good is not Lawful Nice
just makes me want to play a Chaotic Smarmy rogue

>moon landing and America almost single handedly advancing the humans species into space with NASA
>single handedly

You couldn't be more wrong. The Soviet space program was much more accomplished than NASA for most of the cold war.

Jew and Achmeds are both trash yes.

>Not surprised with that answer. Let me guess, only people of Nordic descent are the only "real" Europeans in your eyes
Hey I'm just following crime stats.

>Yes, the "Zweites Buch" which was released in 1928, where he praises America's polices on racial segregation, the Immigration act of 1924, and forced sterilization of mentally retarded people. Yet again, I'm not surprised by your answer.
Like the Founding Fathers would have opposed much of that.

>Your sarcasm is unbecoming. When it's a war of extermination (Slavs where seen in the same light as Jews, nothing but vermin to destroy), I can't fault the way the Soviets dealt with the Germans. I can find fault in what they did to innocent people caught in the crossfire, and I can happily say that I don't support the actions of what the USSR did in the following years afterwards. However, if you believe the Third Reich would of been nicer then the USSR, then you're delusional.
Didn't say they would be. And you should assume any kind that latches onto Communism has something wrong with it.

>Because they're Germanic. He believed that all people of Germanic origin should stand together, even though the British see themselves as British. You seem to forget that Hilter had woefully little knowledge of the world outside of Germany, thinking that Britain would work with them (considering since the British have always made sure neither France or Germany were able to take over Europe in it's entirely)
The British could keep their empire as far as Hitler was concerned. He wasn't threatening the BE.

>or the United States would be swayed into their thinking (even with all the policies Hitler admired, Americans still despise tyranny in all it's forms).
>America didn't have foreign colonies or crush the Redskins.

Fighting communists == fighting for justice

All countries are neutral. All countries act in their own interest. First comes the government and elite ruling class’ needs and then comes their population’s needs. Thirdly comes the needs of allies and last comes the needs of others.

You’re fucking brain washed if you don’t think a nation is neutral. The only truly evil one would be North Korea

The difference between Japanese atrocities and US ones is one of proportion. Japan killed more people and in a much shorter span of time. Nobody in this story is "good", but it is obvious that the racist policies of the Japanese were more aggressive than the racist policies of the US

As for Okinawan women, I doubt there are as many women in Okinawa as there are in Korea...

>Chaotic Good
>Topples foreign governments for American interests
pick one

The government is good because they create the conditions that allow its' people to do this so freely.

>t. eurofag who's ancestors did it for centuries

>Exterminated the Injuns (with George Washington crushing plenty of them)
Nothing compared to what the spanish did in mexico and south america, or basically every major european country did in africa. The only tribe the US actually tried to destroy was the comanche, and they deserved it. Plus there are more native americans above the rio grande today than there were just prior to european contact, albiet with less pure blood.
>Terrorized the Japanese both at home and abroad
Because they declared war on the US by sneak attacking hawaii?
>Worked with Stalin and let his hordes rape a lot of Europe
Yeah that was a mistake. Oh well, hindsight is 20/20.
>Kept Negroes and other Non-Whites in their place.
Bringing blacks to the US in the first place was a mistake. Probably the worst in american history.

Yet another example of the disasters of multiculturalism and republicanism.

It also had Lysenkoism.

Okay what the FUCK happened here?

What axes would a National Alignment chart have?

My suggestions:
>Interventionist vs. Isolationist
>Structured vs. Free (neutral: Moderate)
>Dictatorial vs. Democratic (neutral: Bureaucratic)

United States: Interventionist Free Democracy
USSR: Interventionist Structured Bureaucracy
N. Korea: Isolationist Structured Dictatorship

>Implying China would have been worse off under the Japs then they were under Mao

>All countries act in their own interest
sweden.jpeg

>Japanese business
>Raping Nanking figuratively and much of Korea literally
>Constantly planning "Defensive" operations based around attacking someone first...
>...including the Chinese, who had no army worth speaking of and internal strife to deal with

Yeah. Japan are totally innocent, guys. It's America that is to blame...

We can't all be the Nordic Man. He's the exception.

>No, see, it's okay hat we do it because you did it too. Nevermind that I don't actually know if you ever actually did it.

Americans.

None of that threatened America and American holdings. Japan had no plans to attack American territory before Roosevelt acted out his scheme to rope America into WW2.

Yes, in general the native americand were treated better by comparison. The governmeng did not allow, enourage, or facilitate the kidnapping of nativd women for the entertainment of US troops, for example.

fair point. You're alright. It's a shame we couldn't have sliced the Pacific pie a little more cleanly.

You know what user, you win because I'm done discussing. I'm not going to get my ass banned for talking about politics on a board for traditional games. Give yourself a pat on your back for your win, and do whatever the hell you do. I'm done fighting a uphill battle with people such as yourself, you're as bad as the goddamn radical left.

>Implying none of the Korean women were whores
>Implying the Trail of Tears didn't happen

It's not whataboutism you retarded nigger. No civilization is pure and innocent and it's nature's course to be conquered and assimilated or destroyed by others. It happened to the celts, it happened to the north africans, it happened to the pre-ie inhabitants of iberia, it happened to non-bantus (except for pygmies, who merely lost 3/4 of their population and got enslaved by bantus), and so on and so forth. Why are injuns any different?

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Of course the trail of tears happened. And it was horrible and unjustifiable. But the intent, scale, and outcomd were nothing compared to say, the destruction of the Inca. The Cherokee still exist, and there are more of them today than ever before. They will continue to exist as long as the US does.

I agree, but saying that the motivations of Great Britain, the USSR, the Roman Empire, and Genghis Khan are all basically the same just doesn't seem very helpful. There are drastic differences in motive, and for every similarity there's probably 3 ways that they're not alike at all in motivation.

If we say "To desire control in the world is evil" then how can we look at any government as anything but evil- no matter how localized or well-intentioned?

that wasn't me

>a paladin can freely dispatch prisoners of Evil alignment that have surrendered and renounced that alignment in favor of Lawful Good.
>An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth is by no means anything but Lawful and Good.
>Mercy is to be displayed for the lawbreaker that does so by accident. Benevolence is for the harmless. Pacifism in the fantasy milieu is for those who would be slaves. They have no place in determining general alignment, albeit justice tempered by mercy is a NG manifestation, whilst well-considered benevolence is generally a mark of Good." -Gary Gygax 2005
>Now consider the term “Law” as opposed to “Chaos”. While they are nothing if not opposites, they are neither good nor evil in their definitions. A highly regimented society is typically governed by strict law, i.e., a dictatorship, while societies which allow more individual freedom tend to be more chaotic.
>The terms “Law” and “Evil” are by no means mutually exclusive. There is no reason that there cannot be prescribed and strictly enforced rules which are unpleasant, injurious or even corrupt. Likewise “Chaos” and “Good” do not form a dichotomy.
>As a final note, most of humanity falls into the lawful category, and most of lawful humanity lies near the line between good and evil. With proper leadership the majority will be prone towards lawful/good. Few humans are chaotic, and very few are chaotic and evil. -Gary Gygax 1976
that and many other words from Gary Gygax state or imply that The US is true good or lawful good.

>Amerimutt tries this hard to make his country look like a religion of peace
Whitey didn't see Redskins as anything more than a savage to be trained at best.

>Wounded Knee never happened.

They are alike in a few things and utterly opposed in others. But in the end Empires are all about power and its extertion to the degree to total assholness.

lawful good. There's your bite, Jow Forums. Now leave to whence you came.

Fuck man just look at the Aztecs. A injun society so hated for It’s brutality that other injuns aligned with the Spaniards

>Mind of Amerifatties
How'd helping Stalin and fighting the Japs work out for East Europe and China?

>side with invader Race over your co-Injuns
>Be enslaved and/or muh diked
A suitable reward for race treachery.

That's a very narrow and reductive opinion, though- one that completely excludes the perceived benefits of empire. We would agree that these nations were violent and awful in enforcing their rule, but we don't learn anything useful other than "They're not nice to people who don't look/think like they do". By excluding all other characteristics all we have is a caricature of nations. It's just bland relativism at that point

No that was blacks. Natives were viewed as savage but incompetant rivals

These. You’re a holier-than-thou dumbass if you legitimately think a group of 3.6 million people don’t average out to Neutral

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>were violent and awful
you speak of the above as if its not the heaviest essence of the action of Empires and then you say that the fact that i characterize them as evil to be; very narrow and reductive opinion.

They are evil. You may not like it, but that is what an Empire is. Nothing relative about it.

>r
That's like saying, oh its ok that a burglar killed my wife and child but he took out the trash i had in the bin so its fine.

The burglar was evil. Taking out the trash and even doing your laundry does not make him less evil. He just make him even more anomalous.