What are the technical reasons you aren't using Rust?

Did you just assume my programming language?

Rust has been around for a while at this point and doesn't appear to be going away.

I basically do quick prototyping and small stuff. Node and Python are fine for what I do.

I just think that the syntax of C++ is cleaner and more beautiful.

>technical reasons
Because it has a CoC, and I don't want to take the risk of using a language I will be excommunicated from in my build.

Yes, that's a technical reason.

if you're anything approaching a decent human being you won't violate the CoC, dw

If i want something low-level i use C, if i want something for high-level stuff I use Go. I not see the usage of Rust.

>Yes, that's a technical reason.
Did your parents not teach you to be polite to others? Literal children would have no issues participating in Rust's community, so there's no excuse for you to.

Not my niche.
Not enough support.
I'd rather be able to deploy to a cloud service, a mobile device, a client-side web app, and an old-fashioned executable just for kinks all with minimal differentiation in production process and robust integration for the deployment than have "zero-cost abstractions." If I absolutely need to write a lightweight DLL to support any of those because I'm pushing data in a certain way that have-cost abstractions mangle to hell, then I'll just do it in C.

I'm already productive in both C++ and Haskell

This to be honest. If you want a "safe" language Haskell, Ocaml and other statically typed fp languages will always be better. The only niche Rust fills is if you can't afford GC and you absolutely can't live with the sharp edges in C/C++

Because while shoving RAII into a language by default is nice what we really need is a compiled language with a strong REPL. Rust fails again in just being slightly nicer sounding C++ with all the reluctant "joys" of an old timey compile cycle mixed with the same old tired and complicated syntax.

Rust is holding us back.

Depends on both your definition of around and of a while. More people still use FORTRAN than use Rust. Few jobs demand it.
Also 8 years is extremely young for a programming language.

>What are the technical reasons you aren't using Rust?

Isn't too technical. I tried it and ran out of a bush naked and got shot.

oh boy

Install with curl | sh
Slow compiles
Memory leaks are "safe"
"Low level" yet only compiles to LLVM IR
WASM is inferior to GraalVM
Basic libraries like datetime and tls don't exist
Inadequate tooling

I could go on
I've watched Rust for more than two years
It's on the tail end of its hype cycle at this point
Nobody is going to learn it
There are and will be no rust jobs
Just like Haskell before it

a community is a technical reason, because when you write a lot of code in a language you invariably lean on the community

the rust community is trash, therefore rust is trash

if you want to be a lone autist obviously it doesn't matter what language you use so you would use a lisp and not some shitty meme language that pretends it understands the motivations of syntactic abstraction without the sexprs

the less welcome Jow Forums shitheads feel in a community the better that community is

>Install with curl | sh
I agree that's dumb, although I'm not sure what a good alternative would be right now.

>Slow compiles
Is that a serious issue? I've only played with fairly small Rust programs, but the debug-mode compile times have never been all that long.

>"Low level" yet only compiles to LLVM IR
How is that a problem?

>WASM is inferior to GraalVM
They do completely different things.

>Basic libraries like datetime and tls don't exist
github.com/chronotope/chrono
github.com/ctz/rustls

>Inadequate tooling
In what way?

>It's on the tail end of its hype cycle at this point
I'm not aware of any language that's in a position to replace it.

I know I'm welcome in the Rust community because the CoC is so welcoming. I reject the Rust community because their CoC shilling revealed them to not be about programming but about bullshitting. I am a part of some programming language communities that happen to incidentally have a CoC. It isn't the CoC itself that matters, it's the programming.

I'm sure a rustfag would not understand this distinction.

it's run by faggots and kikes and I don't wanna be banned for using a language because of my opinions.

FREEDOM OF SPEECH you commie motherfuckers!

>the rust community is trash, therefore rust is trash
Do you have an actual reason you think that, or are you just repeating shit off Jow Forums?

>I reject the Rust community because their CoC shilling revealed them to not be about programming but about bullshitting.
What "shilling" are you on about?

>I am a part of some programming language communities that happen to incidentally have a CoC. It isn't the CoC itself that matters, it's the programming.
So why is it bad when the Rust folks do it?

>So why is it bad when the Rust folks do it?
you go ahead and reflect on that, see if anything comes to mind

What's there to replace?
The only high profile application to ship written in Rust is Firefox Quantum
That has been a huge boondogle
It leaks memory almost as fast as it bleeds marketshare
As of early June, IE is the #2 browser again
With a track record like that,
I don't think a lot of companies are going to rush out and
"rewrite it in Rust!"

>What's there to replace?
Systems programming language with compile-time memory safety. Right now there's nothing really competing with Rust as a potential C++ replacement.

>The only high profile application to ship written in Rust is Firefox Quantum
Most of Firefox Quantum is written is C++, not Rust. You're confusing Firefox with Servo.

>With a track record like that, I don't think a lot of companies are going to rush out and "rewrite it in Rust!"
I don't understand why you think those two things are connected.

Also, what this about memory leaks? >Memory leaks are "safe"

There's a few projects at my work that use Rust.

It's gradually replacing many projects that used to be written in C++. python, or ruby. Rust safety and cargo offer a lot of advantages over C++. The library situation is really a push between C++ and Rust. Cargo is infinitely better than CMake but it doesn't have equivalents to boost or QT. The Python and Ruby that Rust is replacing were background daemons or small utilities that eventually ran into performance problems and/or installation nightmares. A statically linked binary that's hard to fuck up has a ton of advantages.

At my work I see Rust slowly replacing most of the use-cases for C++, some of the use-cases for Python/Ruby, and almost none of the use-cases for Java.

I don't wanna be that guy, but "it's" is a contraction of "it is". The one you're looking for is "its".

>doesn't want to be that guy
>proceeds to be that guy

They don't call the NSA to tap into your build server and remotely delete all your copies of the Rust compiler, user

doc.rust-lang.org/book/second-edition/ch15-06-reference-cycles.html

>meaning memory leaks are memory safe in Rust.

Not only that, but you can't build doubly linked lists in "safe" Rust either
The whole point of the language is memory safety
But in the end, it's all one big lie
The borrow checker is the worst of reference counting (forcing you to track memory manually)
along with the worst of garbage collection (hard to find memory leaks)
combined
Once you realize that, then you begin to see real Rust
Point it out and the community will club you with their CoC
while they make "No True Scottsman" fallacies defending the borrow checker
But somehow, their own true Scottsmen can't make FFQ stop leaking memory

>meaning memory leaks are memory safe in Rust.
Under a very specific circumstance: when creating cycles using reference-counted pointers. And the rest of that article explains how to use weak references to ensure that doesn't happen.

>Not only that, but you can't build doubly linked lists in "safe" Rust either
If you're building your own data structures, using the "unsafe" keyword is completely appropriate.

>The borrow checker is the worst of reference counting (forcing you to track memory manually)
The borrow checker doesn't do reference counting, and it also doesn't need to to track memory manually.

>along with the worst of garbage collection (hard to find memory leaks)
I have never heard of that actually occurring "in the real world".

>Point it out and the community will club you with their CoC
I don't think the CoC says what you think it does.

>while they make "No True Scottsman" fallacies defending the borrow checker
What?
At no point has anyone come close to a "No True Scotsman" fallacy.

>But somehow, their own true Scottsmen can't make FFQ stop leaking memory
Firefox isn't predominantly written in Rust. Servo is written in Rust.

You seem incredibly angry and confused.

why would anyone who liked rust waste their time on Jow Forums with a bunch of neckbear incel toxic males

what the fuck has Jow Forums become

The Rust Internet Defense Force has arrived ladies and Jow Forumsentlemen

Have you actually read the Rust CoC?

It's just a "don't be an asshole" memo. It was made by a dude out of his frustration with the toxic community around FOSS.

Oh look, a shitlord
Making up things about computer languages he objectively doesn't understand

Basically this.

Why should I learn Rust instead of Ada?

Eat shit lib

>It's just a "don't be an asshole" memo.
The bizarre thing is that it's barely any stricter than Jow Forums's rules. The entire CoC controversy seems to have been pulled out of thin air.

????????

What are the technical reasons you /should/ use it? It barely does anything worthy of note and what it does do is hardly impressive.

FF56
best browser
doesn't leak memory like a Rusty battleship

FF57+
Bloated shit memory hog

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I do kernel programming. Many of the memory assumptions that Rust makes are not valid when dealing stuff like interrupts, MMIO and DMA.

To appease the borrow checker you would need to put unsafe everywhere.

If you put unsafe everywhere you ask yourself why you bothered to learn a flavor of the month may may language and you didn't just use C.

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sum types, traits, generics, not having to typedef your structs, not using the retarded c preprocessor...

The thing is it's a cost benfit equation. C definitely has it's dated design features, but they are not much of a hindrance in my experience. Rewriting the sheer amount of well tested code is not going to be worth the effort to slightly improve the language.

On the job the majority of things that make my life hard as a programmer are either timing bugs or very dense and hard to read hardware documentation. No programming language will fix this best I can tell.

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If Crystal takes off, what's the point of learning Rust when it's not widely used either?

>Because. Don’t want to learn another flavor of the month meme language.
This
If I wanted to learn a meme lang I would rather learn Nim

I'm not interested in learning Rust when C++ can get the job done for me.

Shitty C FFI and borrow checker too dumb to understand many correct algorithms.

>Just like Haskell before it
Haskell is elegant though
It's being teached in universities
Haskell isn't a meme

hey can you answer my post in /sqt/? thanks

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It's worded very vaguely. They can basically spin it to accuse anyone they want.

and have they done so wrongly at any point? rules lawyering causing a community to put up with bullshit is probably a much more pervasive problem than powerful people wanting to be rid of someone for a bad reason but not being able to somehow

>decent human being
>Did your parents not teach you to be polite to others
>don't be an asshole
That's not the CoC. Nice spin though, it's amazing how the cult has jumped on this shit.

The CoC polices your behaviour not only within the "Rust communist collective" but on social media in general. It's also run by someone who was part of the "Kill all men" craze.

To you freaks, that's someone who is a "decent human being".

>What are the technical reasons you aren't using Rust?
Because Perl is a better language and C# has a better IDE.

Rust is an SJW language

Rust is awesome and it's one of the most interesting modern languages. The same retards who attack Rust say that Golang is good! Golang! can you believe this shit?

the problem with cocs are usually because of the progressive activists behind them.
they have some obsessive desire to force progressivism into communities they infest to push aside or replace the existing values.

>It's worded very vaguely.
That's likely intentional.
Given the fairly technical subject, it's going to be pretty clear who's trying to contribute and who's trying to cause trouble, so a list of strict rules would only encourage idiots to play lawyer. The point of a CoC is to set expectations, not to give hard criteria for what's permitted.

>That's not the CoC. Nice spin though
rust-lang.org/en-US/conduct.html :
5/7 points in the CoC are just variations on Don't Be An Asshole.

The other two are more open to interpretation:
>Respect that people have differences of opinion and that every design or implementation choice carries a trade-off and numerous costs. There is seldom a right answer.
>Please keep unstructured critique to a minimum. If you have solid ideas you want to experiment with, make a fork and see how it works.
But they're pretty much just "give proper criticism, rather than just telling people they're wrong".

>The CoC polices your behaviour not only within the "Rust communist collective" but on social media in general.
No it doesn't. Stop making things up.
>The enforcement policies listed above apply to all official Rust venues; including official IRC channels (...); GitHub repositories under rust-lang, rust-lang-nursery, and rust-lang-deprecated; and all forums under rust-lang.org (...).

>It's also run by someone who was part of the "Kill all men" craze.
If so, they've done a good job of keeping it separate from their work. I'd challenge you to find a single instance of that leaking into their work on Rust.

Why does no one mention pic related?

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>andrewkelley.me/post/zig-programming-language-blurs-line-compile-time-run-time.html
Rust gets BTFO by Zig. You can't even print in Rust without using a macro.

>The CoC polices your behaviour not only within the "Rust communist collective" but on social media in general. It's also run by someone who was part of the "Kill all men" craze.
this is complete bullshit, the rust coc only applies to the official communication platforms and in some cases direct harassment made in private, that's why the 'kill all men' community manager was never penalised - because it was done before she joined the project and on twitter not through any official channel
>it's bad when they have a lot of scope
>it's bad when they have minimal scope

>just le variations
Please.
Directly from the CoC

>We interpret the term “harassment” as including the definition in the Citizen Code of Conduct; if you have any lack of clarity about what might be included in that concept, please read their definition. In particular, we don’t tolerate behavior that excludes people in socially marginalized groups.
>In particular, we don’t tolerate behavior that excludes people in socially marginalized groups.

Later on:

>And if someone takes issue with something you said or did, resist the urge to be defensive. Just stop doing what it was they complained about and apologize

>Just ... apologize
Fucking cult.

>chances are good there was something you could’ve communicated better — remember that it’s your responsibility to make your fellow Rustaceans comfortable
NO, offensive is taken not given. Of course to you this seems normal because you're part of the leftist cult.

>You will find that people will be eager to assume good intent and forgive as long as you earn their trust
"As long as you're in the cult this clause won't be applied to you"

>Don’t just aim to be technically unimpeachable
"We are not a meritocracy"

>I'm a severely autistic individual who cannot communicate normally, you are here to serve me

Shit winapi integration. No good gui library. Offers no advantages over modern C++

BC

>>In particular, we don’t tolerate behavior that excludes people in socially marginalized groups.
And that's bad because...?

>>And if someone takes issue with something you said or did, resist the urge to be defensive. Just stop doing what it was they complained about and apologize
>>chances are good there was something you could’ve communicated better — remember that it’s your responsibility to make your fellow Rustaceans comfortable
>NO, offensive is taken not given. Of course to you this seems normal because you're part of the leftist cult.
Not every community is Jow Forums. In most contexts it's normal and expected for people to make a conscious effort to get along with each other, even if it means occasionally biting your tongue.

>>You will find that people will be eager to assume good intent and forgive as long as you earn their trust
>"As long as you're in the cult this clause won't be applied to you"
That's not even slightly implied.

>>Don’t just aim to be technically unimpeachable
That's good advice though. There's a lot of people who seem to think that social skills aren't important so long as you're technically correct.

Spent the last decade working in C/C++. Only recently learned python to cover what C/C++ doesn't offer. What would be a compelling reason for me to invest time in Rust or Go now?

>Its use case is performance
Yet it can't get anywhere near modern C++ without sprinkling unsafe all over the place
>C++ gets BTFO by Rust in every way besides modernity
stdlib, concurrency primitives, libraries, portability and the greatest achievement of Rust - even more disgusting syntax than C++
>C gets BTFO by Rust in every way besides modernity
Hell no. In places where you'd use C over C++, the only viable competition is Ada. Rust has nothing to produce (provably) safe binaries.

As far as I'm aware, Rust isn't really intended to replace C.

>Yet it can't get anywhere near modern C++
Most benchmarks I've seen put Rust at only just behind C++.

>without sprinkling unsafe all over the place
Using "unsafe" doesn't (generally) make code faster.

You summoned it with great enthusiasm , user. Debate are always good unless you're a SJW or an incel neckbeard.

I'm productive in C, C++, & Rust.

I'm not a pleb thats too dumb to learn or use any of the 3.

wiki.haskell.org/Haskell_in_industry

There's two kinds of unreadable code: 1. code written by idiots, 2. code written by programming language enthusiasts. You can't stop type 1, a sufficiently motivated idiot will write fortran in any language. Rust enables too much of type 2.

always hated the syntax from c++ and it just shows how badly designed the language is if you need :: as visual separator same as trailing ?;

this especially retarded since there are a shit ton of language that have done it right, erlang is one of the best examples on how to create a esthetic and smart syntax. golang in that regard is a lot cleaner and by far better designed than this garbage that rust is

>why would a company demand that you behave decently and maintain professionalism within bounds of their project?
>it's probably those fucking progressive activists pulling strings from the shadows
Imagine being this retarded.

I think you have no idea what borrow checker is at all.
Also
> muh doubly linked lists
This meme is repeated over and over again. Are y'all professional double linked list creators? This language was not created to be an instrument to teach students basics of computer science. Just look at source codes of largest Rust projects, they rarely use unsafe key word, mostly when interact with other programming languages.
> muh memory leaks
There is a huge difference between memory being allocated and incorrectly released (when you lose pointers to such memory chunks) and memory being allocated and not released. The second case could be traced and eliminated with weak / strong pointers.

>why would a company demand that you behave decently and maintain professionalism within bounds of their project?
So they can harass you and abuse you until you kill yourself.

Hopefully, I live in France, I insulted the Quality Control Manager, calling him "a son of a whore mistaking our team for pajeetbots and putting useless pressure on everyone then I punched that manlet before slamming the door of the meeting room and going home at 11am".

Two years later, I'm a team leader and I got a 60% salary increase, black privilege I guess, they can't fire you without looking like a bunch of racist KKK whitey. I got some troubles with the Human Resource head of staff tho'... But my answer to everything was "fuck off respect my contract and I will respect your CoC ad shieeet."

Feel good to not be an americuck forced to suck manager cocks.

WAKADA FOREVER
*dabs*

Retard, user said Rust gets BTFOd by C and C++ in every way besides modernity.

Thank you, that are the same words I use every time to describe CoC.
It was actually adapted to shut up one arrogant asshole.

consider suicide

Go and Scala were much more popular after 8 years than Rust. C/C++ programmers are probably too invested to switch.

garbage C-like syntax
stop doing that it is not the 60s anymore so you rarely have the latency to your terminal anymore and can afford yourself more readable code by using e.g IF/ENDIF

>IF/ENDIF

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what a shitty opinion

say what you want but it is way more readable

error handling through expect is retarded.
and why the hell is this the preferable way of comparing two numbers?
match guess.cmp(&secret_number) {
Ordering::Less => println!("Too small!"),
Ordering::Greater => println!("Too big!"),
Ordering::Equal => println!("You win!"),
}

It's really not. Using keywords for that just draws too much attention, and doesn't have the nice visual grouping that braces has.

>error handling through expect is retarded.
Why? And what do you think is better?

>and why the hell is this the preferable way of comparing two numbers?
That's an intentionally contrived example, designed to illustrate matching on enums.
doc.rust-lang.org/book/second-edition/ch02-00-guessing-game-tutorial.html#comparing-the-guess-to-the-secret-number

The keywords are not for grouping, they are for knowing which block you are in.
The grouping is from the indentation level.
With braces, you have three things:
>the type of statement (if, while, etc)
>the braces that enclose the block of code and tie it to the statement
>the contents of the block indented to a level that makes the block discernable

... and eiwth IF/ENDIF you simply merge the first two together as it is a meaningless separation
Even the usage of braces on their own to create an isolated block can be duplicated with something like block/endblock