Snowden

Hero. Anyone who risks his own life or wellbeing for the greater good is by definition a hero.

Thanks to Snowden (and Assange, bless his soul) the world now knows for certain that the yank govt is not to be trusted. So yes, plenty has changed, privacy is on peoples minds again, as it should be. He literally changed the world for the better. Not to say things are perfect now of course, but better.

Manning got 30 years because he's a traitor. Nonretarded whistleblowers get 7ish.

Yes.

Manning's intent was totally different from Snowden's. Manning acted out of malice. Intent matters under the law. That's why prison sentences are flexible and why whistleblowers usually get light sentences.

>Manning got 30 years because he's a traitor. Nonretarded whistleblowers get 7ish.
Manning got out on a presidential pardon. How is he a traitor then?

yeah instead he turned himself over to the Russians and now has to live the rest of his days in Moscow or St Petersburg basically. I mean, prison is hardly great but even Manning got out after 7 years and Snowden had a much clearer case for a pardon than Manning did.

He's basically fucked.

He's a hero to the people, but a traitor to the government. Simple as that.
What I want to know is what's up with him now. I'm sure the Russians changed his name and set him up with some kind of cushy consultant position but he can't reveal anything about himself so CIA niggers don't try anything funny.

>has anything changed
getting information out that needs to be seen doesn't change anything inherently, but it let the people know that things need to change. That is what was so important about what he did.
>Was his act of disobedience worth it?
Absolutely.
>Hero or traitor?
Hero, definitely. Although that's merely from my perspective. From the perspective of those in power, he's a traitor definitely.

How would throwing his life away maintain credibility? He obviously would've gotten a heavy sentence because having him outside would be threatening to the government. Being a convicted criminal in prison would only support those who call him a traitor. Running loose in Russia lets him continue to be an activist.

>and now has to live the rest of his days in Moscow or St Petersburg basically
Oh no. There is a lot of people living the rest of their lives in Moscow and they seem to do just fine. Russians for one. I would much rather live in Russia than risk spending rest of my days in prison.

Apparently he's literally just living in Russia like a normal dude according to himself. the CIA can't really operate freely in Russia for very obvious reasons. It isn't like the Soviet times but it isn't like Russia lacks experience in dealing with foreign intelligence agencies trying to pull shit inside Russia.

But I'm sure they could still pull off a hit just to make an example of him. The Russians have pulled off assassinations abroad too (not Skripal meme shit but for real) so I'm sure the CIA could do the same, just sacrifice an agent to show the world not to whistleblow.
Also how does the life of a defector like that even work? What is "normal"? Like is he working as a programmer there?

>then fucked up by going to Russia

He did not chose "to go to Russia", his US passport was revoked by the US State Dept. (pure coincidence of course) when his plane landed in Moscow. IIRC he was on his way to South America.

Then some months later the US/EU staged a coup in Ukraine and everyone conveniently forgot about the US govt surveillance programs. Russia/Crimea narrative
+ the "sudden" rise of ISIS (what a perfect timing!) was on the news 24/7. Boom, the US govt is 'good guyz' again! Nothing happened folks! Snowden? PRISM? Whacha talkin' about?

Absolute traitor. Don't pretend like we didn't already know everything he revealed, or that its invasiveness wasn't ultimately beneficial to us on the whole. Our enemies may have suspected, but now they know. What good does that do America or her people?
Hopefully not much longer until deep intel spooks his ass.

Just because Obama commuted his sentence doesn't mean he's a not a traitor. Obama's reason for commuting it was flimsy in my opinion. He said the punishment didn't fit the crime since it was far longer than other whistleblowers. But other whistleblowers usually didn't act out of malice.

He probably wouldn't have gotten a long sentence. The dozens of other whistleblowers got light sentences. Manning is an exception because of his malice. People call him a traitor for Russia. That's worse than what they would have called him had he turn himself in. Going to Russia was his mistake because he lost any sympathy of the people on the fence by running away from the law.

(You)

>Don't pretend like we didn't already know everything he revealed

lol, it's total bs and you know it

BEFORE Snowden reveleations people like were like:
>US government engages in unwarranted surveillance on foreign nationals and US citizens? lol you conspiratard! ))) Have you checked your tinfoil hat lately? xD

AFTER Snowden reveleations:
>Absolute t-traitor! What kind of information is that? What good does that do America or her people? We already knew everything! Treason!

fucking doublefaced hypocrites

He was outside the U.S. for the sole reason of running away. It was his fault he landed in Russia.

By "enemies" you mean the American citizens who expect the government to follow its own rules, right?

see

There wouldn't really be a reason for the Russians to give him a new identity, his face was all over the media, people would figure it out.

Ohh~ yeah~ that's the good stuff
I never thought it was conspiratorial, you'd have to be a moron to have not assumed what they were doing.
>he thinks they gave a shit what actual native citizens were up to

The CIA would risk more than just one agent for pulling a hit on Snowden. Since there is no perfect covert op, the agent himself would leave a trail of some kind that the Russians would pick up on. Then you'd risk exposing that agents handlers and various locations that they use.

I mean, its one of those situation where you really have only a lot of to loose rather than gain. Now they can just point to Snowden and say "Fuck with us and we'll make sure you end up living in fucking Russia for the rest of your fucking life"

This

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surveillance_capitalism

I agree with this, he put his ass on the line for the greater good. Those spy systems he let the public know about are Stazi grade shit, GCHQ are worse though and we know less about them except they recruit youngsters with shitty cash prizes to lure them in. The UK is a surveillance state and getting creepier year by year..

>It was his fault he landed in Russia

You mean, he should have gone to the pilot and said that the plane should not land in Moscow, but fly straight to South America without refueling? Or said to the people in Hong Cong that he wouldn't accept the plane ticket, because it will land in Russia?

>He was outside the U.S. for the sole reason of running away

HongKong is also "outside of the US" last time i've checked. Yet they didn't revoked his passport when he was there. But no, the US State Department patiently waited until Snowden's plane landed in Moscow. Pure coincidence, i'm sure.

>nu-Jow Forums is brainwashed by the government into thinking snowden is a traitor
Always disappointed when I come on this board.

>I never thought it was conspiratorial

Sure thing, bud. I can bet that the bootlickers like you (who hate any form of disobedience to the Big Daddy Government) mocked the people who were woke before 2013 and called them conspirologists and traitors. I've seen it way too frequently.

>you'd have to be a moron to have not assumed what they were doing

You see, sweety, ASSUMPTION is one thing. When I just assume these things then CIA niggers like yourself could call me a "tinfoil nut".
But when there's a PROOF then all you have left is autistic screeching and the "traitor" card.

>muh secrets, he told our secrets to the public

fuck you americunts, he is a hero.

Call anyone 'sweetie' in real life and see if you don't get socked in the face for being such a condescending prick. How about your assumptions? You seem to be operating under the automatic assumption that it's malicious toward 'you', and not towards those who would harm the country or its interests-- which makes you an idiot, sweetie.

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He shouldn't have fled in the first place. Additionally, he shouldn't have gone on a plane that he knew would stop at Russia.

>nu-Jow Forums is brainwashed by the government into thinking snowden is a traitor
>implying that this the entire Jow Forums thinks like that

It's just a couple of CIA / NSA niggers earning their shekels. Or just contrarian edgelords.
They do not represent Jow Forums in any way.

>Look up this Manning guy on Wikipedia
>Article refers to him as "she", "her", etc.
What the fuck? I get that there are a lot of brainwashed SJW weirdos around, but isn't Wikipedia supposed to be a fucking encyclopedia? As in, something that presents factual information?

Sex changes has been a thing for literally decades, get over it.

>pump billions into the intelligence community with your tax dollars
>be surprised when they do their job in order to defend the country
>instead defend the guy who compromised all that work
Idiots...

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American public does not control over how spending is done. That's called congress.

Idiot

>Call anyone 'sweetie' in real life and see if you don't get socked in the face for being such a condescending prick.

What's the problem sweetie? Butthurt much? No more arguments left just threats and ad homs, huh? Anger management issues?

>that it's malicious toward 'you', and not towards those who would harm the country or its interests

Why are you so obsessed of safeguarding and protecting these interests on a Nepalese basket-weaving forum in the first place, sweetie? Are you, by any chance, an actual CIA nigger on a payroll, who gets paid to shill here?

She's legally a women.

Intelligence agencies are not defending this country. They're helping to kill it from the inside out. They take constitutional freedoms and human rights away from us in the name of fighting imaginary enemies.

And who put that congress into power?
biggest faggot Jow Forums 2018 can't handle the bantz 0/1488
>Are you, by any chance, an actual CIA nigger on a payroll, who gets paid to shill here?
Just a patriot with a better understanding of the bigger picture than you obviously have.

But he's a man. He can think he's a woman and mutilate his body, but he's still a man. Wikipedia is supposed to be an encyclopedia. It's supposed to have factual information. I looked at their fucking style guide and it says to address a person by whatever their latest imagined gender is? That shit's fucking bizarre. So if Bill Gates wakes up one day and thinks he's a woman, suddenly they'll change the article on him to call him a woman, instead of just mentioning that as of today's date he suffers from gender dysphoria?

Nobody gives a shit.

>Try to get idiots to care about something they've never heard of
Snowden is as much a hero as he is a bus driver.

The founding fathers with the constitution.

That's the best argument I ever heard for lowering taxes. Well done.

who gives a shit? You think you're smart but are posting on Jow Forums. Get out of here you cuckservative piece of shit.

This entire response is what I hate about conserfags.
Your entire position is cradled on the idea that you have anything to do with what other people "consider" themselves when it's none of your goddamn business.

If Bill Gates came out as a woman tomorrow, I'd be posting nudes on Friday.

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>He shouldn't have fled in the first place

Yes, he should have stayed in HC and wait for extradition, right? He would get a fair trial at home, i'm sure of that.

>Additionally, he shouldn't have gone on a plane that he knew would stop at Russia.

Why is that exactly? Russia wasn't the kind of boogeyman it is today, it was before Ukraine/Crimea happened.

Most people itt aren't even capable to making the decision Snowden did - to leave his comfy, well-paid gov job, his 10/10 gf and family and live as an outcast. Just because he has this outdated thing that's called consciousness.

How? For what purpose would cutting their own throat like that possibly serve if it wasn't ultimately to our benefit? Boo hoo, my fucking internet traffic is being logged to root out the Chinese cockroaches, having basically no effect on my day-to-day life, whatever shall I do?

Pretty much this.

/thread

Jesus Christ Jow Forums is filled with SJW faggots?

>can't handle the bantz 0/1488

Lmoa, but i'm not the one who autistically threatens people he can't convince due to lack of coherent arguments. It's (you), sweetie and only (you).

>Just a patriot with a better understanding of the bigger picture than you obviously have.

AHAHAHAHA, fag, you wish.

You aren't a patriot. Showden is a Patriot. Manning's a Patriot. You are just a dumb fag and a paid shill.
You'd shit your pants if you had to face the same moral dilemma Snowden had to face back then. Fuck, you probably don't even know what "moral dilemma" means in the first place.

>me protect government interests online on Jow Forums! me patriot!

>Hero or traitor
Traitor. Once you agree to uphold secrecy, you must stay true to it. If he had been a Blackhat hacker that would be another story. As long as you're not a hypocrite.

> Jesus Christ Jow Forums is filled with RWNJ faggots?

He shouldn't have even left the U.S. if he wanted sympathy. He should have turned himself in like the previous whistleblowers.

>He would get a fair trial at home, i'm sure of that.
Unironically yes.

>Russia wasn't the kind of boogeyman it is today, it was before Ukraine/Crimea happened.
Yes it was. Russia was infamous at the time for killing journalists.

It's common sense for anyone with a brain, that so-called trans people are suffering from a mental illness called gender dysphoria. It's bizarre that society encourages and enables them in their mental illness, instead of giving them help. In a way, they're victims. It's like if you encouraged a depressed person to commit suicide instead of actually helping them.

Im sure you're a doctor who's up to the state of the art of mental health

>How? For what purpose would cutting their own throat like that possibly serve if it wasn't ultimately to our benefit?
Politicians want control over the people, and see rights as being in the way of that. The people running the intelligence agencies a.) agree with the politicians, b.) have bureaucratic turf wars to fight, and c.) see everything as a nail, because their job is to wield a hammer. When your job is to find threats, everything looks like one.

>my fucking internet traffic is being logged to root out the Chinese
The purpose for which they claim its being done is irrelevant, they don't have the right to do it.

In any case you've fallen for the big lie that is nationalism. This isn't "my nation vs. their nation", this is "nations vs. people". The US government and the Chinese government are both your enemies. To them you're just collateral damage in their feuding.

> turned himself in

US is garbage country. Why would you do that?

US is infamous currently for jailing journalists. It likes to conduct military tribunals on journalists such as Chelsea Manning without any public insight into them. It then likes to rubber stamp FISA court orders.

You want to talk about Russia killing journalists. Well the US just spies on them and throws them in jail instead.

If it was a Russia vs USA on morality; at least Russia doesn't pretend to be moral; the US has its fingers in the pot all around the world and then cries when someone else does even something moderately similar.

The US, is a cuckservative nation full of RWNJ's that think small govt means gigantic military and spy agencies to spy on their own citizens. Sad really.

traitor who did it for money

nice try, Vlad

>Traitor. Once you agree to uphold secrecy, you must stay true to it.
The NSA and its leaders willingly violated their oaths to uphold the Constitution, by violating the Fourth Amendment on a massive scale. On the contrary, Snowden is one of the only people at NSA who was not a traitor. He took his oath to the Constitution seriously enough to realize that it was his duty to try and stop those who were enemies of it. A government that violates its people's rights is not owed any loyalty.

It's common sense for anyone with a brain, that so-called people with anger issues are suffering from mental illness called rage and anger issues. It's bizarre that society encourages and enables them in their mental illness to buy guns and post online, instead of taking their guns away and giving them help. In a way, they're victims. It's like if you encouraged a RWNJ person to shoot up a school instead of actually helping them.

>journalists such as Chelsea Manning
nice narrative. at least make it less obvious.

snowden is one of the good guys. he confirmed all the crap is going on.

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>found the feminine penis

And people ITT are calling 'me' conspiratorial...
>they don't have the right to do it
What "right" are you talking about? It has nothing to do with "rights", this is what we wanted, whether you like it or not. We paid for this, we voted for it, it is of us, by us, and for us. Where do you think politicians come from if not among the people? They just spring out of the fucking ground?

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commutation, not pardon

Last I checked Wikileaks makes publications. Last I checked they have sources (Manning). Last I checked Manning was released from Military prison without any public involvement.

Try again retard?

Now people willingly put devices in their house that listen to them 24/7

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So anything the majority wants is what's good and right?

Not him; but I heard the majority loves jesus and religion. Must good right?

the world is aware of the sinister complicit nature of government mass surveillance + botnets such as googoo.... you can protect yourself or whine like tucker sociopath carlson.. aslo loogs like msm scum are now moderating this fa(g)gy tech board.... 1 less outlet for autismo-fagos

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>He shouldn't have even left the U.S. if he wanted sympathy. He should have turned himself in like the previous whistleblowers.

He probably knew better what to expect from his government and especially his former employers, because he was way better informed on the subject that you or I or anyone else itt. Judging by the reaction of the US government and the officials in the intelligence community i say he was absolutely right.

>Unironically yes.

Unironically no. No fucking chance.

>Yes it was.

How so?

>Russia was infamous at the time for killing journalists.

You must be trolling or just desperately gasping at straws. Killing journalists in Russia couldn't have had less bearing on Snowden's decision to plan the escape route. Extradition laws could have. That's why stopping in the EU would make any sense. The EU authorities (austrians irrc) searched several random planes from Moscow, just because they wanted to kiss Obama's ass so much.
But Snowden didn't even have the luxury to choose the airline, people who hid him in HC gave the plane ticket to him.

>what are checks and balances

>politicians in the US come from the same pleb stock as average Joes doing 9 to 5
I'm not much into class politics but come on, we both know it's not them who'll eat shit if things go wrong.

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Ineffective.

ur mom's ineffective

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>We paid for this, we voted for it

Are you implying that an average voter is fully aware of all the intricacies and secret programs his government is doing? Most people can't even name all three branches of government ffs.

Also no presidential candidate ever said during his campaign
>hey folks! vote for me! I'm gonna start a couple of new wars, bloat the budget deficit to oblivion and infringe on your rights! Oh, almost forgot, I also solemnly swear to take a shit on the Constitution every single day! Vote for me guys!

People would never vote for a candidate who honestly reveals the whole picture.

Unless the government completely declassifies all its files the assumption about "but muh people wanted this" is disingenuous.

>Where do you think politicians come from if not among the people? They just spring out of the fucking ground?

Newsflash, most politicians are actually psychopaths.

smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/research-suggests-politicians-are-more-likely-to-be-psychopaths-11364143/

americanthinker.com/articles/2014/12/psychopathy_and_politics.html

It takes a special kind of asshole to constantly lie and deceive your own voters (read muh lips - "no more taxes" - remember that?) and never admit that you are wrong in anything.

National security has been compromised.
Thousands of innocent lives have been lost because technical hegemony has been peeled back.
Open and shut prosecutions have been swept under the rug.

>Are you implying that an average voter is fully aware of all the intricacies and secret programs his government is doing?
No, are you implying they should be? I was speaking in generalities.

>He probably knew better what to expect from his government and especially his former employers, because he was way better informed on the subject that you or I or anyone else itt.
I won't pretend to know what his reasoning was. Maybe if he would state why he decided to run away instead of turning himself in like previous whistleblowers, then this mystery could be cleared up. It's not like previous American whistleblowers were locked in a cage and tortured.

>Unironically no. No fucking chance.
I don't think he was in the military so he probably would have gotten a fair trial.

>How so? Killing journalists in Russia couldn't have had less bearing on Snowden's decision to plan the escape route
My point is that Americans still feared Russia back then even before the annexing.

Manning was not a journalist and never involved in 'journalism'. He dumped a load of information at a whistle blowing site but that does not make him a journalist any more than a random person on the street sending their random phone-cam recording to a news site in the hope it will contain something interesting.

The only retard is yourself.

only change was that the public has become more aware of it and now you will genuinely find normal well-adjusted people waiving to their laptop cameras or have it covered up by tape. There's a desire to reduce government surveillance so all we need now is a company to make it quickly and easily accessible. Google is the greatest enemy to this movement, and if they win on their ploy to control the world we will live in a Google owned dystopia not unlike 1984. We're already heading there as companies move towards monopoly, soon everything you are/do/am will be owned by a company, this is why Jow Forums is pushing against botnet, because soon we will all be. What's scarier is that if AI can in fact become human, then with the data they have of you they could make a digital clone that does things you never would, and then replace you for real.
Also Google has always and is currently intentionally using media and other stimulants to manipulate you emotionally and cognitively into submitting to the progressive stack, they are already tryint to brainwash the masses and its working, the only escape is to have google (a) collapse and get replace by someone else or (b) become so demonized that people flee from it. Considering their technological skills and innovation that won't be happening any time soon.

/blog

>hero or traitor
blah blah moral grey but i like him, we stand for the same things, and he got the public aware which is a step towards a brighter, less botnet future. Ultimately its up to more than just whistle-blowers to fix this shit, because a whistle is worthless if it falls of deaf ears and right now the ears are getting dull.

i remember 2012. back when people used laptops and actually gave a shit about programing and tech. now everyone is on ipads. oh well.

is russia going to extradite him now that banana obongo is out and their guy trump is in?

>Russia
>extradite
>ever
>to US
kek

If anyone thinks Snowden going on a holiday in Russia is a good deal, they are living in Disneyland.

Trump is fighting a power struggle against the deep state and benefits from public distrust of the spooks. Russia doesn't give a shit as long as it's in their interests to keep him, so they won't listen.

>Trump is fighting a power struggle against the deep state

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Nah. Putin still likes the idea of sticking his thumb in the US's eye, even if he likes Trump better than Obama. Anyway Trump hasn't been able to give Putin as much as either of them had hoped, because Trump was too obvious about their bromance and provoked a big FBI investigation at home.

tfw you realize all these people talking about whistleblowers aren't aware of the laundry list of US whistleblowers and how they were treated

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