How do you deal with elderly developers at your job?

I've met some old heads who just code awful. Bad coders are everywhere but when they're old they bring a sort of arrogance to change. I've had to clean up bad code so much from the old heads at my old job.

And this is why Jow Forums remains unemployed, people.

Attached: mfw-caprice.jpg (541x498, 48K)

Fpbp

In modern days, in order to support the majority that are mobile users, you have to build SPAs, not just server-side-rendered pages. And even with SSR you use some sort of component pattern to assign JS and CSS to particular piece of HTML. Otherwise you will not be able to handle the complexity of the website when it becomes huge.

We are not living in 1999 and just serving files from a file-system which you navigate in the address-bar.

Retard alert. While not all frameworks are necessary, you'd be shooting yourself in the foot making a modern website with server-side functionality *without* using a framework. Essentially you'd be the kind of retard that would try to build a car and all of its parts from scratch just to prove that you can. Yeah, it'd be cool to do and you'd learn a lot, but it would take an unacceptable amount of time and the end result will almost invariably be worse than if you used parts made by professionals.

Fucking beanie wearing millennial faggot. You are barely 20 years old and you think you know everything in this world. Well, take a second look and think again. You don't know much anything at all. Now go back to drink s_o_y-latte and sit on a beanbag with your macbook and pretend to "code" like Karlie. KKK is for Koding.

>in order to support the majority that are mobile users, you have to build SPAs, not just server-side-rendered pages
Source: muh-new-no-analogs-in-the-world AngieXXX 3000 developer

>in order to support the majority that are mobile users, you have to build SPAs
Why? Not a webdev here.

>making a modern website
That's where you went wrong. Most of the shit modern websites do is shit that isn't needed and shouldn't be done. Your argument is basically "Well all this unneeded functionality is so much easier to implement with all these frameworks!"

>t. OP samefagging

you don't want people to load 1 MB every time they request a page. And you can't just make a minimalistic page without any JS because it would not be responsive and either suck for the mobile or the desktop users. With SPAs/PWAs you just serve an app one time and on subsequent requests the service worker serves it from the cache, even if you don't have internet (so you can put some placeholder in the meantime).

>without any JS because it would not be responsive and either suck for the mobile or the desktop users
Could this be solved with a separate page for mobile and desktop?

By modern website I mean anything that communicates with a server beyond just serving the webpage.

Jow Forums would fall under my idea of a modern website, realtek.com/ would not.

>How do you deal with elderly developers at your job?
We take them deep into the forest in the winter and leave them there

I think this user means to describe Web 2.0 and he's right. If you're not using a framework and you're developing a website with 2.0 functionality, you're going to be wasting much of your time doing what other people have already done and they've done it better than you ever will.

A minimalistic page without javascript is unresponsive. What the fuck am I reading? Javascript is what makes shit unresponsive.

No website needs front-end in a more complex fashion than wordpress or for some cases even Jow Forums.

Of course, I'm talking about that javascript overload that haunts the web these days. Design is a must for most people nowadays.

I work for an educational company (not as a developer though) and their website is an absolute javascript nightmare.

It could all be completed in a much cleaner fashion with plain HTML and CSS and the back-end handling the requests. But no! Let's make things "chic" by adding a bunch of unnecessary effects and transitions.

Of course, javascript is necessary sometimes when the intended design demands it. But think javascript should serve design, and not the other way around.

>already done and they've done it better than you ever will.
Then why does the web suck?

realtek.com/ is exactly how you properly design a website

>SPAs
Are you running it all client-side? No? Then you're still talking to a server. SPAs are a fancy way of putting a "Loading" widget on top of the web page so the user won't click the submit button twice. And rather than debugging an actual problem ("We're not sending the right data to the server, we need to fix the form.") you're debugging some BS Javascript bastard stacktrace hell where listeners aren't listening because Unicode and callers are only calling when the Blood Moon rises.

The oldsters are right, because HTML is a stateless protocol and everything we've bolted on top of it to make it not a stateless protocol makes it more insecure and/or fragile.

You newfags should listen to the oldfags because they've all been fucked over by shitty ideas in the past. They've seen some shit.

amazon takes like 15 seconds to fully load. no one cares

>try using 7 amazon tabs at once to compare things
>browser slows to a crawl

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I don't see a reason for learning all these fucking front end web frameworks. The most beautiful designs I've seen were accomplished with HTML and CSS. Some were a little more elaborate and of course need some javascript to adjust the feel, but it can just as well be done with jQuery.

I just wish the web went into a more sober trend.

Yes you can make responsive web design with plain CSS only. Take a look at @media queries.

People relying too heavily on JavaScript to either show off or because they legitimately do not understand how to say, use CSS to make an anchor tag change it's background on hover.

Honestly I like how it looks, but there's next to nothing in the way of server-side functionality which is exactly what you would be using a framework for. Even with a framework, if you were to design realtek's site it would likely save you an insignificant amount of time an effort. So much so, that if you don't already know a framework it would be better to just write the site entirely yourself.

replied to the wrong post. It was meant to be for

JOKES ON YOU, I AM LEARNING X86 ASSEMBLY, C AND C++ SO I CAN AVOID IT SHITTY WEBPROGRAMMING :D. I REFUSE TO LEARN HTML, CSS, JAVASCRIPT OR ANY GAY FRAMEWORKS =D

Take a look at newegg.com

Their dropdown menu on the left-side uses JavaScript for something that can be done entirely in CSS.

Here's an example that a middle-schooler could understand and implement.
w3schools.com/Css/css_dropdowns.asp

It's simple stuff, but entire websites are built around design decisions such as this one.

I think the absolute best look and feel for a website is the average wordpress template. But I mean for normies. I fucking love the Jow Forums aesthetic.

/thread
OP is an autist who has no idea how to work on a team. His co-workers sound like they have a solid grasp of actual engineering principles.

Devs should do things from scratch at least once in their lifes, its education that by some reason college doesnt give, if you dont know how shit works, you are basically a believer that copypastes shit from stack overflow and prays to the gods of computing for it to work.

>1MB every time they request a page
Little know fact, web browsers all disabled caching in 1998.

I think it depends. I tried building a site from scratch with lots of server-side functionality and got pretty far. I could have finished it, but along the way I was writing so many custom queries that had to be perfect in things such as how I insert/change/retrieve data. While I could have kept doing it the hard way, I thought to myself that it's 2016 and there must be an easier way. I decided to scrap all my work, rebuild the site using Django, and haven't looked back since.

Dropdowns are a sign from God that you need to rethink your site's design.

What should they use instead?

I think only a year or two ago this menu would reload the page every time you checked a box. It made their search practically unusable.

Attached: Menu.png (244x311, 8K)

>I was writing so many custom queries that had to be perfect in things such as how I insert/change/retrieve data
>Learning opportunity successfully avoided

>I could have finished it
The fuck? I knew what I was doing, it was just becoming tedious and as soon as you make the realization that most of this work has already been done, it becomes unnecessarily tedious.

But you're just here to feel good about yourself so I won't get in the way of that.

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holy shit would that grind my gears

New technology is just old technology put in a flashy package

On a site like newegg, that's a tough one. It caters to a very specific clientele.

But dropdowns on 85% of sites are useless, usually half broken, and only serve to confuse the user. It's hiding information that should be visible, or bringing to the front information that shouldn't be. How many times have you been 3-4 dropdowns in when you mis-mouse and lose your place? That developer/designer fucked up.

>custom queries that had to be perfect in things such as how I insert/change/retrieve data
>never heard of stored procedures
>was using MySQL anyway

I, personally, think dropdowns should never go more than 1 level deep which Newegg follows.
I don't think they're appropriate for every site, but they're ideal for commerce.

and what if stored procedures and triggers arent supported? im working on something right now where they arent

I'd still have to write them from scratch myself. Your entire point is null because I completed the site and others already with Django, saving myself lots of hassle and relatively worthless knowledge.

>Something is new therefore it is better
Kys OP

>3/4 dropdowns in
as bad as it is on a desktop, try navigating that on a mobile device where the website doesn't scale whatsoever and you have to pinch to zoom to even read, and touch the menus

>Something is old therefore it is better
>Something is new therefore it is worse
Kys user

>Learning opportunity successfully avoided
Just like the people OP describe except they are slowing themselves down by avoiding learning new technology.

My point is that if the designer says "let's use a dropdown" it's time to stop everything and start talking about what your typical user is trying to do with your site.

To stay with newegg, why are Peripherals under "Computer Systems"? If I'm looking for a scanner, there's a good chance I'm not going to find it, since it's bundled for no particular reason with printers. They've made some effort to keep the dropdowns from getting too ridiculous at the expense of clarity. Granted, 99% of the nerds browsing NewEgg will find whatever they're looking for, but still.

You need to either:
use different software, or;
learn to not care about your data's integrity.

Something thats old and still used have passed the test of time unlike new things which havent been tested.

>learning how to engineer good software through self-directed practice
>jumping on a bandwagon fad because shiny
These are exactly the same thing, you're right user.

Desktop and mobile programs typically work differently so why do webdevs try to use the same website?

>Something that is old is still used because people want to write down "I have been doing 20 years of same, monotonic shit" on their resumee and expect to get paid better for that

>what is caching
so instead of loading 200kb each time, we spend 20 seconds loading THE ENTIRETY of the fucking web application, even if i only need the basic search function
awesome bro donate to my medium patreon macbook

>why are you using Apache?
>node.js has a web server built in

>did WebDevelopment with plain HTML, CSS and sometimes JS for x years, all these frameworks and Redux crap is for clueless Hipsters
He's right you know.

for a full web server there is nginx.

for rendering things like realtime-rendered ads for specific dimensions you use node.js with headless chrome indeed

The front page of the average website is now larger than the first version of Doom. Is your web app so wonderful and useful that it should be larger than Doom? No, of course not. Using up the visitor's resource just because you can is lazy and shows a lack of empathy for them.

Attached: doom_cyberdemon.png (1280x960, 180K)

Before anyone calls bs on my claim the average web page is larger than Doom: duckduckgo.com/?q=larger than doom&t=ftas&ia=web

>he doesnt know what hot loading is

/thread

fippy bippy, my niggy

We get it you useless boomers, but your time is coming to an end thankfully.

it is better to build something using time-tested tools, components, and standards that everybody knows how to use rather than relying on something that nobody will recognize after 10 years
it is better to use old tools well than it is to use new tools poorly
we have much better building materials and architecture today than we did in 312 BC, and yet the roman aqueducts still stand and work while most houses near me built in the last 200 years cannot say the same
t. 22yo boomer

>Jow Forums
>modern
hahhahhahahhahahhha

I care, that why noscript blocks most of Amazon's useless JS from even loading.
The only domains you need to enable are images.amazon.com and ssl.images.amazon.com

This.
How many phpnuke sites are still operating?
The same shit will happen to your hipster web shit.

im using a closure table to make a hierarchical list to maintain its structure as well as being able to order it whichever way i want. my query works, im not a lazy fuck

you can still write good code given your limitations lazy fuck

phpnuke sucks
phpbb is where its at

Except most of you boomers don't do that.
Hence all these banking systems relying on complete fucking garbage that nobody wants to touch because the boomer killed himself 20 years ago.
Stop ending all your comments with t.

Can you share more recipes of script-less browsing in 2018?

Btw there's how modern imageboard looks like: 0chan.pl/

Naw dog, I'm not OP bro

If you got someone over 40 in software and who is your peer then they were never a good developer to begin with.

Phoneposter here that shit is unreadable.

Webdev and huge node fag here.
CSS is all you need.

Worked an embedded job doing C with a guy from Bell Labs. Top notch knew C very well. Pity I didnt put in more effort near the end

> I will never be old, the post

it doesnt matter if they are using c, html, or godjagnodelgbtq.js, no fancy development platform is going to make a bad programmer magically shit out top-tier code
you cant just go "oh look at this new thing, cool lets use that" and "oOH oh look at this, this has one cool feature we could use lets move our project over to this!!11!" on something that is real work, something that people are going to rely on for decades
all of that is good for experimenting with and for small projects that aren't really all that important. tech would go nowhere if nobody tried new stuff, but you gotta know the time and place and project to use it

banking systems have been in place and working for decades. they were built with some of the very earliest stuff available. cobol is almost 60 fucking years old. of course those systems are obsolete by now, and banks are getting their systems rewritten, but 6 decades is a damned good run.
you whine about those lame banking systems, but I want to see you build something that supports an operation as large and critical as international fucking banking for 60 damned years. go ahead, use your node.js or whatever. i eagerly await your product.
also remember that computers were pretty much in their infancy back then. the internet didnt exist yet. the c programming language didnt even exist back then. those were damned good programmers, to do all of that with the programming equivalent of sticks and stones.

t. 22yo boomer

Pretty much everyone in my office is over 40. They're constantly forcing new design principals, architectures, and tools down my throat. It's like every other month, you gotta stop what you're doing and incorporate this new testing schema or AWS microservice, or some other thing that really isn't necessary, but is very neat.

Jow Forums is web 2.0

the old man is doing you a favor, he is trying to make you less stupid.

It’s like that everyone you go in this space among teams that actually get work done.

/thread

I learn from them and improve my skills 100-fold. I'm a fucking retard who thinks I'm a programmer using Mac OS and they are gods.

>doing what other people have already done and they've done it better than you ever will
ha

>all developers need to cater to my specific preference
No one cares Grandpa. You don't want to visit websites I build then don't. Just don't fucking whine because not everyone does things there way you want.