Reminder...
Reminder
Joshua Reyes
Other urls found in this thread:
serverfault.com
phoronix.com
suckless.org
web.archive.org
without-systemd.org
github.com
bugs.debian.org
voidlinux.org
github.com
twitter.com
Aaron Nguyen
install systemd
Aiden Wilson
There's a LOT of reasons why people don't like it, and I think the people who don't like it all likely have their own reasons for not liking it.
Here's a posting about someone discovering a massive memory leak that used up 4GB of ram. While I have yet to see something this massive, I have definitely noticed Systemd using more memory than the alternatives, and some leakage here and there as well.
serverfault.com
Some see it as an unnecessary security risk due to its massive attack surface. It recently hit 1 million lines of code.
phoronix.com
Some don't like it because they dislike its habit of scope creep. The project ends up assimilating things that historically should not have anything to do with init. gif related.
suckless.org
There's also some other design decisions that people have an issue with, such as using Google DNS by default (because of course systemd can handle DNS), using binary logs, etc.
Lastly there's the conspiracy theory side of it, which alleges that systemd is an NSA attempt to compromise GNU/Linux, and due to Systemd as a project moving way too fast, it can't be properly audited.
web.archive.org
For more links and arguments, see:
without-systemd.org
Justin Carter
For detail on the DNS issue, pic related
Jason Jenkins
and lastly, the infamous motherboard bricking
Brody Morris
If systemd is such bloatware why doesn't a lightweight alternative emerge?
Kayden Young
There are quite a few that are used by a variety of distributions.
There's the old sysvinit, which is used by Devuan, AntiX, and MX Linux among probably some others. It's had its issues, and honestly most likely isn't the best option out there, but it was dominant prior to the introduction of systemd and still works just fine to this day.
Then there's OpenRC developed by the Gentoo project and used by them as well as quite a few other distros. Funtoo, Artix, and Alpine to name a few. It's technically not an init system, as it's a program that runs on top of a regular init such as the previously mentioned sysv. From what I hear it's quite nice.
Then there's my personal favorite: Runit. Runit is used by Void Linux and is incredibly fast, light, and administering a system with it is fairly easy.
Of course if your use case allows for it, there's always BSD operating systems, which have quite lightweight inits.
There's probably others i've missed, but that's the stuff I know about.
Cooper Gray
BSD is out of the question as it has no software support. What kinds of applications are hard-linking to systemd? Could I run Chromium on Void with little to no change for instance?
Andrew Lee
I don't have a comprehensive list or anything of software that depends on systemd as of now, but I do know that the GNOME desktop environment depends on it for some things. Additionally, the Snap package manager I believe relies on it currently.
Chromium should be fine though, as should FF.
Wyatt Carter
runit, s6, anopa
>What kinds of applications are hard-linking to systemd?
most of systemd dependent applications just use their .service scripts that can be rewritten for other inits
>Could I run Chromium on Void
yes
>GNOME desktop environment depends on systemd for some things
it probably just needs logind which is available outside of systemd github.com
also gnome works without systemd and elogind on openbsd
Tyler Jenkins
bloody hell. this is the evidence I've been looking for. not autistic screeching.
How the fuck do I get away from systemd without turning my operating system into a timesink?
Michael Anderson
because most of the people who care can't program or understand modern linux.
John Parker
systemd+gnu+linux*
Nathan Ortiz
That entire mail thread on Google DNS is a fucking joke. Multiple people explaining PATIENTLY the dangers of defauling to a fucking external corporate DNS, and one systemd nigger being willfully dense and whining about "unwanted changes."
Make the fucking change, Marco.
Connor Hughes
true. systemd actually adds shit that linux should have had decades ago.
Wyatt Harris
or, you know, just not use the defaults you fucking retard.
not like it fucking matters unless you're using dnssec or some dns-over-https bullshit
Thomas Bailey
>default does a dubious thing
>instead of making defaults NOT do the dubious thing, you shouldn't be using defaults to begin with!
fuck off potternig
Hudson Green
You Rage You Lose
bugs.debian.org
Cooper Nguyen
name services are not private. stop pretending they are and even if they were, what shoudl the default be? whatever bullshit one your ISP runs? really doesn't fucking matter.
Christian Butler
Try MX Linux or Devuan. I think those are the most easy ones, not much harder to work with than Debian.
Yeah it's all fucked. Makes me suspect that regular Debian has been compromised perhaps.
Justin Moore
actually I just read it, and it doesn't even "default" to it unless the network is so poorly set up it can't find out the dns server to use from DHCP.
so nonissue it's not even funny.
Evan Foster
Install Gentoo
Wyatt Fisher
Hard to take anti-systemders seriously with muh comprimised and muh dns. It's free software, just fix it
Ethan Wood
Unironically this
Jackson Torres
Barely can't wait for the part where i try to run some NES ROM with a garbled header and the system kernel panics because the NES emulator is also Systemd.
Luke Cox
yeah bro i'm totally gonna recompile the monstrosity that is systemd with my custom patches, and keep doing that to keep it up to date, and keep a constant, working knowledge of the entire source code to be able to look through that for any additional sketchy shit that might get added.
or I could say fuck it and avoid this thing like the plague.
Jackson Williams
Nothing wrong with systemd, move on.
DISABLE INTEL HYPERTHREADING. DISABLE INTEL HYPERTHREADING. DISABLE INTEL HYPERTHREADING. ALIENS. EMINEM. MAGNETS.
Jack Hughes
I know i will install void when they move sites completely.
Anthony Rogers
emerge --ask openrc
Anthony Ross
>Nothing wrong with systemd, move on.
Asher Diaz
Yep
Wyatt Jackson
I'd just like to interject. What you are referring to as linux is infact GNU/Linux/Systemd/bash/xorg/urxvt/tmux/firefox/chromium/grub/git/etc/etc/etc/...
Nolan Rodriguez
You mean like init?
Jose Lewis
Ian Bell
Even OS X had a much lighter alternative to systemd before systemd.
Grayson Phillips
Free software can have technical issues too.
Asher Foster
>Where'dyouinstallitjoke.txt
Christian Price
I use systemd(GNU+Linux).
Gavin Smith
Jeremiah Sullivan
At first it was a pain but I got over it and now I'm not sure I'd want to ever go back.
Also OP is wrong.
Jackson Morales
I can see where a lot of the points come from in regards for why systemd is concerning, but I also think it's useful to remeber that there exist people who use GNU/Linux outside of Jow Forums, and very smart people at that, who like systemd or even develop systemd. Surely they must consider these points and think of reasons otherwise as to why systemd is still good. Basically I'm saying just be skeptical.
What I'm thinking though is if the biggest concern with systemd is it's size, and that despite the fact it's free software it can't be effectievly audited or edited to fix what people don't like...why not start a new community of like minded devlopers for that specific task? To unfuck systemd for those who think it's fucked? If systemd is really as bad as Jow Forums says it is, there should be devs out there who would do this if they could and if the man power existed, right?
Josiah Rodriguez
>systemd shouldnt mount EFI variables as read it's useless
>well actually systemd does write to EFI variables thats why we mount them
>le crybaby accusations and funny reaction faces
wtf i hate systemd now
Landon Cook
>without turning my operating system into a timesink
this nigga is asking the tough questions
Ayden Gray
This tbhfam.
Isaac Roberts
Void Linux is pretty much out of the box OS.
Hunter Price
Poettering was right in this case though. The fact that deleting efivars bricks the motherboard is the motherboard vendor's fault. It literally takes a combination of an idiot user buying a motherboard built by idiots and then randomly deleting his root without looking at what is mounted on it for this to be a problem.
T. running gentoo with openrc
Oliver Peterson
That is why Unix is great. Much easier to apply custom patches if the codebase isnt 42 bazillion lines of spaghetti code. Optimally systemd should be split into several independent programs that can be compiled and ran separately.
Lincoln Garcia
Worst kind of boomer
David Young
>arguing about something that shouldn't exist in systemd either way
ONE. FUCKING. JOB.
Landon Rogers
MX doesn't use systemd :^)
Xavier Bell
Nobody is starting separate community to audit the mess some German made period.
Developers are already stretched too far and too few in between to have somebody stop what they are doing and review a corporate fucking imbecile that thinks the next Jesus Christ.
Hudson Edwards
>GNU/Systemd
Charles Adams
Well then we're stuck with not knowing how systemd works I guess