Post good valid reasons why aren't you running/trying out BSD right now or at least why you haven't tried out a BSD...

I wish I could run a hackintosh but between being on Ryzen, relying on a PCI wifi adapter and Apple killing OpenGL I'll never do it and I'll be fucked if I'll spend $2000 on underpowered hardware

TRIM when?
ZFS when?
Multicore firewall when?
NFSv4 when?

Let's go into those:
TRIM is vital to properly supporting SSDs. Without it, deleting a few pages from the storage would require the deletion of the entire block before putting it all back, creating unnecessary reads and writes and ultimately causing a faster degradation of the SSD.
ZFS, and other filesystems like it, provide numerous features both for better management of your data with subvolumes, as well as better security. The security features include snapshotting, checksumming of all data and metadata, bitrot protection, excellent implementation of software RAID, and so on. Backups should of course always be made, but they can be complimented with a better FS. I can just imagine it now: An OpenBSD admin routinely backing up his system, unaware that data is being silently corrupted. By the time it's a problem, it's too late. Imagine how far back he'd have to roll back to get to a stable state? If only he had a filesystem that wasn't written in the 80s, and actually did something to protect his data. OpenBSD has best security? I think not.
PF, at least on OpenBSD, does not support more than one core of one processor. Linux's netfilter on the other hand, does. Not much else to say.
It's been 18 years since NFSv4 was originally standardized, and OpenBSD has still not gotten around to implementing it. This is quite a deficiency, as NFSv4 now allows you to authenticate connections with Kerberos, and even encrypt the data transfers. Once again, you would think such a security-focused OS would care about such benefits, but alas, no.

based

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this

too much hassle?

Run Freenas on 2 of my servers. When you got a lot of media files, trust me, you want all the protection you can get. Least you get hit by the "bitrot" and gotta redo the lot. ReFS/ZFS is only options to combat the bitrot.

I have tried it and its shit.

>security
don't forget this: no access control framework (MAC, RBAC, TE or some combination or variation of these basic models) and no sandboxing capabilities

>Post good valid reasons why aren't you running/trying out BSD
when I first started using dedian, in 2006, half of my equipment wasn't compatible with linux.
I 2018(well, long before that) my equipment is almost 100% compatible and fully working.
Why do I have to go back to 2006 in terms of compatibility, when I am enjoying Unix now?

the problem with this argument is that unless you're running on old hardware, linux will definitely break your system over and over again because of kernel updates making drivers incompatible or other stupid shit that happens due to linux kernel autoupdates.

FreeBSD on the other hand takes a few months longer to support hardware, but once they do, it's WAY more reliable than any linux distro, even the corporate ones like RHEL or Ubuntu. you will never have to go back to the cycle of linux breaking your system every week or two and spending an hour searching stackoverflow for a fix once you move to FreeBSD. because they actually make a complete operating system that they make sure doesn't sneak in any incompatibilities or glitchy kernel changes.

if you buy a brand-new PC with all bleeding edge hardware (especially nVidia graphics cards) then probably FreeBSD is not the way to go if you need to use it as your workstation. put some shitty linux distro on there and wait a few months before going to any of the BSDs. but if you want to revive your 2012 desktop and have turn it into a server for a secure apache server, then you can be sure FreeBSD will keep it running glitch-free for years, unlike any distro of linux, which will surely inject bugs into it every few weeks.

Linux is for trying out new window managers.

FreeBSD is for running servers.

wifi drivers.

Since FreeBSD steals everything from Solaris, why not just go to source and install OpenIndiana?

>linux will definitely break your system over and over again because of kernel updates making drivers incompatible or other stupid shit
literally never seen that happen.

BSD is my last resort if linux starts to go south

*hugs*

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declarative OS management is neat and moving away of the Unix-style global state as well, I don't have much trust in sanity of anything with GNU prefix but this project is very interesting

FWIW, the people behind Guix & GuixSD seem to be pretty cool, regardless of how you feel about GNU itself. Check out some of the talks from the last couple years of FOSDEM & LibrePlanet.

no games

Lack of hardware support, unfamiliarity with the system, also there being no reason for me to switch, at least I don't know any

ZFS and jails are nice... I can't think of anything else tho.

kqueue, dtrace

Doesn't need those when code will never EVER be able to escalate privileges or exploit the kernel

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thanks for the image, was searching for it without result for weeks

I have tried freebsd. The built-in manual in minimal install is absolutely BASED

>the ultimate unix
>true root doesn't exist
>can't compile apps without xcode
>need to install a package manager yourself
yeah ultimate unix!

>>true root doesn't exist
good, root was a mistake

anyone have any good references for securing FreeBSD / shitty security defaults to watch out for. i'm willing to try it on a dedi box that i have.

vez.mrsk.me/freebsd-defaults.txt
and probably look at what HardenedBSD is doing

what if "code escapes" firefox and encrypts all my user data?

You should have been running it as another user then

Making music with linux is already hard enough, too hard to find doc about their audio stack.

GuixSD is probably the most sane project I've ever seen. Even ended up maintaining packages for it

>disabling SMT
No, only disabling hyperthreading. Use AMD anyway.

I think you are stupid.

>unless you're running on old hardware
that's false.
The most bleeding edge driver that you need is for your GPU, and every AMD GPU has perfect support on linux.
Even unreleased AMD CPUs have patches on the mainline months before their release. Vega20 (not released yet) got patches in april.
...meanwhile in *BSD they check their changelogs for TRIM support.

>FreeBSD on the other hand takes a few months longer to support hardware
It took 4 years for NetBSD to support TRIM
It took 2 years for FreeBSD to support TRIM
poor Linux was the first kernel to support it, 1 year earlier than windows.

>(especially nVidia graphics cards)
bleeding edge and novidia don't go together. You are still buying a gpu with last year's supported graphics APIs.

I don't think you know what you are talking about. Most drivers that work on *BSD come from re-licensed Linux drivers.
the Cuck license won't help any *BSD distro grow beyond the hobby status and all *BSD distros will just be living in fear of getting short in funds.
I am sorry that Theo is not on the linux kernel team. He just wastes his time so as Sony or Apple can steal s/w for their products.

>FreeBSD is for running servers.
*BSD is for running console games.

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When is the last time you used MAC?
It's an access control used for things like classified information by the military, why would you care on a regular server or a desktop?

I don't want to be grouped with the BSD people, including (ya)

yeah, who even uses things like selinux, grsecurity and sandboxes lol

I'm talking about MAC specifically.
Do you even know what it is?

>what is selinux

I swear all the retards talking about MAC online have never ever used it, because it makes absolutely no sense in most scenarios.

It's used to prevent users from declassifying information. It only makes sense in the military, or perhaps in some very specific corporate scenarios.

Still not answering my question fag.
What is MAC and what do you use it for.

>has a ps4
>has a girlfriend

Pick one

I play video games with my friends and Windows Subsystem for Linux is pretty good.

If I wanted a POSIX-compliant UNIX-like OS I'd install MacOS on my own hardware again. It works really well.

MacOS is like 50% FreeBSD dude

freebsd is insecure and literally all the devs develop on a virtual machine.

openbsd has no software, is reluctant to add new features, and has a serious lack of devs. If it weren't those I would use it. Audio system is superb and miles ahead of Linux, everything is cohesive and makes sense unlike GNU which seemingly tries to cram every feature idea they come up with in the shower.

Netbsd is basically dead and always has internal conflict and leadership issues. There's no reason to ever use this other than if you're trying to run unix on a toaster.

>not using based DragonflyBSD

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OpenBSD doesn't actually need TRIM
pastebin.com/LbUyY1mj

That's almost an answer.
But still no explanation for why a "normal" user would need "United States Department of Defense-style mandatory access controls (MAC)", a system designed to prevent officers from declassifying information.

I certainly don't need that on the servers I run. So it's a valid criticism of OpenBSD, if you are considering it for processing classified information.

the article says nothing about why openbsd doesnt need trim

Companies might also appreciate having these controls. There's a reason why RedHat was part of its development and supports configuring it in RHEL installation.

wow FreeBSD is shit

*backrub* your CoC

i dont like wasting my time trying OS that can´t do what i need them to fucking do

>FreeBSD on the other hand takes a few months longer to support hardware
That's an interesting way to spell "years".

>linux will definitely break your system over and over again because of kernel updates making drivers incompatible or other stupid shit
Never happens. Linus would tear your ass in public.

>that happens due to linux kernel autoupdates.
Okay, now you're just being retarded. Stop running apt-get dist-upgrade on a cron script.

And you're like 50% banana dude, what's your point?

The only thing "hard" about making music in linux is bridging vsts, which i wouldnt consider difficult, just doesnt work on 100% of the vsts you might need. I mostly work with hardware so it doesnt matter much to me though. If youre already familiar with something like ableton you should be able to pick up bitwig in linux and the shortcuts/workflow will be almost identical.

Tried it 3 times on 3 different devices, all very standard, popular, not new hardware. Everytime a critical piece of hardware was not supported (from wifi to cpu). Moreover it's inherently slow with bad software support, which was fine by me because I was considering a setup with vm guests to handle software and perf via passthroughs. Unfortunately there's no viable vm tech in bsdland. Maybe in a decade or 5.

Last I checked the installer crashed if you looked at it funny and the live image hadn't been bootable for anyone in over half a year. Did they fix that yet?

It's hilarious how ignorant you are about technology. I mean this is so bad you could have avoided making a fool out of yourself with a single google, but nah, you had to inform everyone you haven't managed to get a 3rd neuron in your brain yet

Red Hat was involved because they like the juicy government contracts.
Except for maybe defense contractors very few companies need MAC.

Still not a response.
Explain a scenario in which MAC is useful for someone not handling classified documents.

I'm tired of people spouting keywords without even understanding what they mean.

Seems overly complicated. It's like boring people sat around and thought, "How can we make this experience more humdrum and monotonous?" and made BSD.

I tried and wanted to like FreeBSD because I wanted more involvement than a Debian or Red Hat, but BSD took it in the wrong direction for me.

Every fucking thread

>OpenBSD is disabling SMT on Intel
Why’s that? ;^)

FreeBSD doesn't have 3D acceleration for Radeon graphics cards. OpenBSD was actually pretty comfy. I have a laptop hard drive I can throw into the computer and install it again. Thanks for reminding me.

I have both though. I mean, isn't both "normie" things so it shouldn't be that hard to imagine.

>NetBSD also has no software and relies on compiling it yourself, which is a pain.

Fucking idiot. What is it then:
ftp.netbsd.org/pub/pkgsrc/packages/NetBSD/x86_64/8.0/All//

> Netbsd is basically dead and always has internal conflict and leadership issues. There's no reason to ever use this other than if you're trying
to run unix on a toaster.

As a NetBSD dev I can tell you that:
- We are not dead.
- We have no leadership issues.
- We support a wide variety of hardware, not only toasters.

I'm running FreeBSD on my file server, but FreeBSD really isn't a desktop OS.

>true root doesn't exist
Turn off SIP (aka "rootless")

>>can't compile apps without xcode
??? You simply need a compiler. xcode just happens to include llvm/clang, but you can install one without xcode.

>>need to install a package manager yourself
macOS comes with the Apple package system, that's how it is able to download and install xcode and all the developer utils when you type clang in a terminal without having clang installed.... But anyway, for third party stuff, use macports.

LVM
LUKS
drivers

>As a NetBSD dev
How does it make you feel that OpenBSD is just as portable as netbsd, only it's better in every way?

No time to read manpages.
I'm a busy man, I need my computer working, even void linux is out of the equation because the minimalism bites me in the arse, though I want to try Net because muh unix like.

What's the fucking use case?

Dragonfly disallows special symbols in password and my wife doesn't work.
OpenBSD doesn't support trim and has retarded partition scheme.
FreeBSD is against my views.

NetBSD has actually been working to fix some of the problems highlighted about OpenBSD, namely lack of ZFS and NFSv4

>and my wife doesn't work.
kek

It worked last year and this year. If you have issues just rebuild the installer by cloning the guix repo and calling guix system disk-image with the installer given there. Use the pre-install-env.

I ran a "BSD distribution" for years before I switched to Linux.

Can you sell me on rump kernels?

I tried it because two of our customers wanted to migrate to Linux, so I had to use it for some time. Cons:
1) Very basic. Coreutils lack GNU coreutils features.
2) Every release upgrade means a rebuild of all of the installed software is required, no compatibility between kernel versions, unless you get a special compatibility layer
3) Half of the software runs through a Linux emulation.
4) I didn't understand how could I build something if it's removed from ports, ex. PHP 5.4.
5) Every software got its own basic config and that's it. While on Linux distributions maintainers may care about keeping things tidy by separating configs into separate folders, BSD maintainers just put a basic config and leave everything to a user.
Pros:
It compiles nicely, no dev libraries are required, unlike on Linux.

Over 9000 hours

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Cool, I'll check it out. What about the mandatory nonfree drivers/firmware for wifi and shit? Manual install with a better handler than cp/mv possible?

Gentoo does not have this problem, and it is Linux.

This.I could see how it may be great as a home server, but as a desktop it doesn't even come close to being realistic.

BSD guys seem so pissed that Linux killed Unix completely and docker hammered in the coffin nails. "But, but ZFS! 20 dead drives in two years and no data loss!" How are these retards destroying drives like this and why is so much RAM needed to do so?

>so much RAM
afaik, it's because it caches the most frequently-accessed files in RAM for faster access or something.
Also, it's not like ZFS is a "Unix" thing anymore. GNU/Linux has had it for years.

Back in the early days data corruption wasn't that big a deal. Back then the biggest thing was making sure data wasn't lost altogether. Now? Several TB worth of data is pretty common, even for the home user. As a consequence as data has grown the risk of so called data errors grows to. Some random files can sit on a drive for years before being accessed. Media files are more prone to error than others (dunno why, just how it is). Sad part is that this all happens without you knowing about it. Raid controller can't detect it, it triggers no flags under the os. Your backups are worthless cause the bad data gets backed up along with the good. What do? Enter ZFS (and ReFS). End to end check summing along with ECC ram and Raid z or mirror means that your data is as safe from corruption as you can get. Now it does not mean safe from loss due to failure. You still need backups. However since the data is error free from the start your backups will be error free as well. Using a UPS is still recommended to. It's your data, If you like redoing all your media files every few years then by all means still use NTFS. If you like to just create your library and enjoy it for years w/no hassle switch to ZFS (or ReFS)

Neato