Is Jow Forums's disdain for Node just standard Jow Forums contrariness? What would a Node hater suggest instead?

No it's because Javascript is a terrible language and why do I want something that I don't even want to have run at client side to be run server side?

The mistake of NodeJS is that its also the web server, since its single-threaded it becomes vulnerable to DoS by abusing any CPU time taking functions. So you have to be careful what you put in the main thread, and put the rest in the nodejs worker pool.

What if you shrinkwrap a malicious package?

Bootstrap

The only terrible part about JS is browser incapability and differences. But this problem doesn't exist on the server. So Node = God-tier.

Except there are much better things to run on the backend than Node.

Also browser incapability in 2018? Nigga, stop using IE. This isn't an issue anymore.

Fire your testers.
Also,
- use reputable packages
- npm audit
- QA team

Or just don't fucking use this garbage and save millions.

reminder that most Jow Forums posters are NEETs and don't understand a shit about anything done in business. Modern JS is one of the best backend languages and in 2018, most real software is done in microservices, so the language itself doesn't really matter that much since the project is divided into many microservices written in many languages. Also, nobody uses php in 2018 except NEETs and 3rd world shitholes

This is cool. Thanks for sharing user

PHP will remain popular for many years to come because of WordPress alone.

Nobody uses node

most Jow Forumsentooman suck anyways so it doesn't really matter what framework they use

>and 3rd world shitholes

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>Also browser incapability in 2018? Nigga, stop using IE. This isn't an issue anymore.
Depends on the target customers. And I don't only speak about IE6 or some crap, there are also new features that are not supported by many widely used browsers.

Yahoo, eBay, Linkedin, WordPress.

JS sucks ass, I hate everything written in that poor excuse of a language. I rather do web dev in assembly than touching anything with JS

JS full stackers are the future.
I can manage a project alone, build the SPA front-end, API and the environment in Cloudformation without the need of a sysadmin, set up CI/CD testing against current LTS and stable Node.

There seems to be a trend back to CGI/serverless/lambda.

Nope

Modern JS and microservices? Oooh, you don't actually work in development, do you?

PHP is actually used for a lot of enterprise software. Facebook, Cloudflare, Rackspace, Tesla, Nokia, Slack, Zynga, Hootsyite, Mailchimp and many more large businesses rely on PHP.

JavaScript it such a shit language Microsoft invented a wrapper language (TypeScript) so that their developers don't shoot themselves in the foot.

Don't even get me started on the debacle of NPM.

I would upload one of the many JavaScript comparison memes but I can't be bothered.

Can't argue against that, you've won!

We use node microservices at work.

>JavaScript it such a shit language Microsoft invented a wrapper language (TypeScript) so that their developers don't shoot themselves in the foot
javascript is fine, typescript is training wheels for pajeet

TypeScript IS JavaScript (with type checking).
Facebook did the same with PHP (hack), & also javascript (flowtype).

ya NPM can be trashy, but a lot of pkg managers are also trashy.

this is still a problem with node since the node runtime lacks shit like Workers, SharedArrayBuffers and Atomics.

most of those were disabled because of web browser spectre woes but tech debt is crushing node and its inability to expose modern V8 features. it took them til fucking node v10 to even have modules

Why not just use Java + Vert.x?

>The only terrible part about JS
>Modern JS is one of the best backend languages
JS is weakest because it lets you write code that is very difficult for other programmers to understand. The incredible cancer of anonymous functions and duck-typing taken to the extreme throughout the language has led to coders writing clever code, which is something C/C++ coders have known for years is to the overall detriment of whoever has to look at your code next. Furthermore, it lacks well-designed support for typing and exceptions. Although this makes the skill floor of the language extremely low and allows unskilled programmers to be hired, it leads to very simple bugs that would not otherwise happen so often in C. Yes, TypeScript exists, but C/++/# have existed for literal decades with better and more mature support for that feature.

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>Don't even get me started on the debacle of NPM.

>one of the only package managers that actually work correctly.

not even python pip can do what npm can without autismal virtualenv configuration.

Why would you use Java when you have the option to use something else?

Finite amount of RAM.

>without the need of a sysadmin
this is the REAL killer feature with a lot of these scripting languages with modern package management and rich amounts of dependencies to pick from.

fuck sysadmins and opper scum.

Everybody hates Node. Even back on 2010 I remember we had trash thread for node.

Node was intended for developing little-to-mid applications where the biggest bottleneck was I/O. And for that it works great.

But today people are doing heavy threaded work on it, then you have Electron that

>JS is weakest because it lets you write code that is very difficult for other programmers to understand.
So it's the fault of the language when someone is a brainlet.

too bad c++14 and 17 just got some lambda upgrades. closures, first class anonymous functions, promises, etc are the future.

>today people are doing heavy threaded work on it

Those who do that are usually bigger corporations, who can afford to use node on clusters. Because node has a cluster API, yeah.

JS programmers don't employ ''duck'' typing. That's more of a python/ruby meme.
Anonymous functions are not cancer. They are in just about every language these days.

plus clustering makes it easier to not fuck up multiprocess work, forcing clear IPC boundaries without any kind of mutex locking.

hell js pretty much already has threading, mutexes, and shared memory as well.

I misspoke. The convention is to write code that no one will understand. The most popular JS frameworks have only encouraged that kind of behavior.
>lambda upgrades. closures, first class anonymous functions, promises, etc are the future.
See, this is the problem. Web devs who don't understand the underlying concepts and think that their convoluted ways of doing things are the ONLY way to do those things. Promises are just a parallel concept simplified for your overpaid brain.
JS programmers don't employ ''duck'' typing
Next time, look up the definition of what you're trying to argue before you start typing. Furthermore, anonymous functions make code unorganized and debugging next to impossible.

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array.sort((former, latter) => former.qtd - latter.qtd);
Bo-ho. JS is bad because this is hard to understand.
The absolute state of Jow Forums.

You are either a brainlet or a troll, can't be certain here.

I used to use node, but switched to go. I like it a lot more.

>convoluted

jesus fuck, is it possible to be this anti-zero cost abstraction? C++17 is the future and the future is shit like lambdas and the places where the fit nicely. I"m sorry that you have to learn modern C++ senpai.

lol no generics

>The convention is to write code that no one will understand

Hey you need to secure that web dev salary somehow

npm shits itself if you use it at the wrong time of the day unlike pip

sure it does kid. and then you fuck up your virtualenv and no longer have reproducible deployments. Given what npm does and how it handles and solves diamond dependencies, it's probably one of the most advanced package managers, next to rust.

>Promises are just a parallel concept simplified

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>Promises are just a parallel concept simplified
Do you mean asynchronous?

Node's own author even acknowledges that it's shit

tinyclouds.org/jsconf2018.pdf

.net core is pretty chill, you should try it out

he hasn't been active in the project for some time and trying to shill his stupid typescript alt. I'd take whatever he says with a grain of salt.

granted, node is drowning in tech debt, but v8 and js in general wasn't really as powerful as it is today.

>jsdev thinks he knows better than a proper sysadmin
Par for the course, really.

At that point, would it be more practical to just use Go?

>sysadmin thinks he knows anything

sweetie, people like you are why "cloud" is the new hotness. you faggots are on notice.

if you want to I guess? there are some benefits to scripting languages. also go's "standard" package manager is still shit and going through the paces of being more like Rust's.

personally if you want something like Go, I'd rather just go balls deep into rust and learn some modern language concepts instead of just a shitty java 1.0 like language.

/thread

Go

>functional programming
>cancer
enjoy your global mutable state and (P)OOP paradigms.

People like you are what happens when universities don't force people to deal with LISP or equivalent pajeet filters.

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>made with js
Node was MADE in C++

It doesn't matter what you use to build dogshit
it remains dogshit
You could say that C++ is the representation space dogshit has been homomorphically mapped into.

I use and love JS, because it triggers the retards and does everything I need it to do. When WebAssembly hits the mainstream I'll probably move to cpp/c# in the browser.

>Is Jow Forums's disdain for Node just standard Jow Forums contrariness?
No. Some of it stems from how bad JavaScript used to it, but
1. ES2015+ still isn't that good of a language.
2. The runtime has only just acquired limited support for parallelism.
3. Callbacks, promises and async/await are a worse concurrency model than green threads.
4. The tooling is constantly in flux.
5. node_modules
6. Library quality is less predictable than in other ecosystems. Popular libraries can be buggy shit with misleading documentation.
7. Libraries are maintained shorter than in other ecosystems.
8. No web framework means you'll build your own web framework.
>What would a Node hater suggest instead?
Build your web shit in with Django, Phoenix, Laravel or even Spring. Write tools in Go or really anything that build a binary.

Translator's note: the joke is that this post is the real NEET opinion.

How does it compare to, say, Flask?

The future is indeed the same language running on to back end and the front end, but it doesn't have to JS. Clojure already works well for that.

With NPM's brilliant design you can end up with two incompatible versions of the same libraries in your project.

Kotlin.

Better than no type system.

>And JavaScript is a the best dynamic language.
Man, the guy really can't get over it.

Node is so fucking productive it is unbelievable. Sure JS has some bad parts but none of that shit matters when you want to write a performant backend using great libraries for every possible use case. Yeah I would definitely use Haskell to write a backend if I could but it would be tedious as fuck and all the libraries would be untested broken academic half-baked shit.

>Node is so fucking productive it is unbelievable
Have you ever used RoR?

Nah Rails seems like the only thing Ruby is used for and learning a whole language for one framework seems like a waste of time.

Haskell libraries are pure quality compared to what you find on NPM. The broken academic half-baked shit is there, but you can easily avoid it.