All right fags, let's have a BSD circlejerk
#boat on rizon
News: The smtpd config changed and all I got was this invalid mail queue. It's working now and probably for the best to split match and action statements
/BSD/ thread
Jace Stewart
Christopher Clark
>The smtpd config changed
Stick with sendmail.
It's what the big boys do.
Christian Sanchez
t. freebsd dev
why would you even have this shit in base in 2018
Evan Johnson
Why wouldn't you?
All the cert advisories in the dawn of the internet boom has been fixed.
Kayden Sullivan
OpenBSD is a meme
>Filesystem
default FS doesn't even support SSD TRIM, and OpenBSD doesn't support anything modern like ZFS or BTRFS.
In the CIA triad of Confidentiality, Integrity, and Availability, availability seems to be the one that's lacking. Who cares how hack-resistant your system is if the data you're protecting is corrupted?
That's not even getting into the volume management stuff that's missing, and the snapshots, and the everything.
"b-b-but MUH BACKUPS!!"
You do realize that if the filesystem is not secure and does not protect against bitrot and corruption, your precious backups are going to be fucked, because you'll be backing up corrupted data. Who even knows how far you'll have to roll back in order to get to a clean state?
>Security
"Only two remote holes in the default install!!!!!!!"
Yay!
I hope you realize that this literally only applies to a base system install with absolutely no packages added. In other words, not exactly representative or meaningful towards... anything really
>Sustainability
A few years ago, OpenBSD was actually in danger of shutting down because they couldn't keep the fucking lights on. How could anyone see this as a system they could rely on, when it could be in danger of ending at any time?
>Standards-compliance
"B-But OpenBSD is written in strictly standards-compliant C! Clearly that's better than muh GNU virus!"
So you're not allowed to create extensions to the standard? You should only implement the standard and nothing more? Keep in mind that this is nothing like EEE, as the GNU extensions are Free Software, with freely available source code, as opposed to proprietary shite. People should be allowed to innovate and improve things.
If you're gonna be anal about standards-compliance, then why let people make their own implementations anyway? Why not have the standards organizations make one C implementation and force everyone to use it?
Charles Brown
TRIM when?
ZFS when?
Multicore firewall when?
NFSv4 when?
Let's go into those:
TRIM is vital to properly supporting SSDs. Without it, deleting a few pages from the storage would require the deletion of the entire block before putting it all back, creating unnecessary reads and writes and ultimately causing a faster degradation of the SSD.
ZFS, and other filesystems like it, provide numerous features both for better management of your data with subvolumes, as well as better security. The security features include snapshotting, checksumming of all data and metadata, bitrot protection, excellent implementation of software RAID, and so on. Backups should of course always be made, but they can be complimented with a better FS. I can just imagine it now: An OpenBSD admin routinely backing up his system, unaware that data is being silently corrupted. By the time it's a problem, it's too late. Imagine how far back he'd have to roll back to get to a stable state? If only he had a filesystem that wasn't written in the 80s, and actually did something to protect his data. OpenBSD has best security? I think not.
PF, at least on OpenBSD, does not support more than one core of one processor. Linux's netfilter on the other hand, does. Not much else to say.
It's been 18 years since NFSv4 was originally standardized, and OpenBSD has still not gotten around to implementing it. This is quite a deficiency, as NFSv4 now allows you to authenticate connections with Kerberos, and even encrypt the data transfers. Once again, you would think such a security-focused OS would care about such benefits, but alas, no.
Juan Cooper
>not using qmail
Christian Rivera
Who's paying these anti-OpenBSD shills? Always the same posts. I wonder why they would try so hard to shut it down...
Isaiah Bennett
no one is paying him, he's simply mentally ill
Dominic Turner
Who's paying these pro-OpenBSD shills? Always the same posts. I wonder why they would try so hard to keep it up...
Brandon Perez
>On no! shilling free software!
We know who is behind these posts.
Samuel Moore
>On no! shilling shit software!
We know who is behind these posts.
Ethan Hernandez
Free Software devs?
Jaxson Sanchez
I've seen the name Unveil in connection to OpenBSD's pledge recently? Is it that filepath argument of pledge that was always NULL so far?
James Morales
hey Tim Yeaton, doesn't FreeBSD have all these features?
Benjamin James
it comes from some random skid's whiner blog post ca. OBSD 4.6 where he couldn't configure the firewall or something
Jeremiah Scott
was it that one who claimed Theo hacked his friend's router and remapped keyboard?
Justin Butler
pledge and unveil seem to be the next-gen resource management tools
correct me if i'm wrong (probably am), but
>pledge = processes must declare the necessary syscalls before execution
>unveil = same with the filesystem
man.openbsd.org
(unveil has no manpage yet)
the end goal seems to be: if a program is compromised, all it can do is crash
Ethan Hernandez
who cares? I'm surprised nobody mentioned the NSA backdoor rumor yet, even though all that resulted in was another full code audit
we got some very smart monks who make computing safer for everyone, and all these ppl do is blog about not understanding easy syntax
Xavier Stewart
oh, the old (6.2) pledge signature was
int pledge(const char *promises, const char *paths[]);
and it was changed to char *execpromises, seems like unveil was originally supposed to be part of pledge call
Ryder Morales
for the same reason that sendmail, apache, nginx, sudo, openssl, and so many others aren't in base... they're not good enough
though i do have a soft spot for nginx because i think relayd is too confusing for my simple use case (sorry reyk, love httpd)
Nathaniel Anderson
that makes sense: to separate out syscall and FS access management into 2 discrete utilities
fun PDF slides, relevant
Angel Bennett
>pledge(1)
>pledge [[-p path]…] [-P promises] command [arguments]
YES!!! finally non-source sandbox. Ted's pre-pledge dynamic linker hack was nasty in comparison
Isaiah Wright
(((FreeBSD-Foundation)))
Jace Bennett
i don't see why the BSD brothers can't exist amicably. my brother does some weird stuff that I'd consider insecure, like he receives mail at home, but I don't force him to get a PO box
...at least he's not jailed
Jeremiah Reyes
Yes I believe so, and so does GNU/Linux, and since I like hugs, I use that.
Adam White
(((They))) have almost forced OpenBSD to shut down once.
William Nguyen
Cooper Stewart
Camden Nguyen
post more qt
Blake Butler
Camden Gutierrez
>tfw a competitor OS is wearing your mascot's skin as a mask
Also I love how the NetBSD logo is so lame they can never figure out what to do with it.
Levi Wilson
OpenBSD is probably a great way to learn good C programming. Should start by reading some of the binutils. The pledge system is dope.
Levi Moore
old logo was better (?)
Brandon Rodriguez
minix logo is best, owo
Hunter Bell
yeah but i guess the netbsd team has lots of japanese people on it
Kayden Torres
Daddy!!!
Jacob Hall
Beastie's a generic mascot for all the BSDs
Christian Watson
>water too all flame wars
(gnu)Linux and BSD are both good operating systems
Christian Rodriguez
No, one of them sucks
Lucas Clark
t. freeBSD is cucked
Hunter Turner
They do. But the logo was changed during the corporate takeover of NetBSD by Wasabi Systems. Same reason why FreeBSD ended up with the dildo logo.
Henry Collins
>FreeBSD ended up with the dildo logo
kek
Gavin Torres
theo killed his mother and raped his father
Colton Brown
30 min till second post
over 3 hours till 3rd post
thread still here a day later
You tried kid.
Tyler Green
What's with your obsession with shitting on BSD?
Ayden Ward
So, I finally took the plunge and set up OpenBSD on my Thinkpad today. I love how it doesn't come with shit tons of bloat like basically every Loonix distro. Meaning, I can actually install only the things that I want and build from the ground up. Tiny installer, very fast installation and start up time on my system is now literally 2 to 3 seconds. Would recommend.
Adam Cooper
>on my Thinkpad today.
what model?
Austin Lopez
X1 Carbon. Even the touch screen worked out of the box which unusually nice.
The only issue I had was with the intel wifi drivers because it doesn't have an ethernet port, so I had to copy it from another machine.
All working fine now though. Just set up xmonad for my wm and it's awesome!
Jose Watson
>touch screen worked out of the box
personally never had a touch screen laptop, this is pleasantly surprising
how does one get a wifi driver (or is it firmware? not sure) on live usb for installation?
Brody Bennett
Yeah, firmware.
firmware.openbsd.org
Just copy the ones you need into /etc/firmware/ and run fw_update -v
Aaron Perry
After extracted of course
tar -xvzf filename
Ian Davis
It’s literally the CIA.
Chase Barnes
>i don't see why the BSD brothers can't exist amicably
We didn’t see this kind of shilling before but OpenBSD has strayed further from the other BSDs to the point where it is a whole nuther ball of wax. NetBSD and OpenBSD are the last of the real, old school unices, everything else is bloated CIA nigger shit. As FreeBSD and Linux stray further from their roots and manufacturers eventually give up on the remaining proprietary Unix OSs they still offer, we will see an increasing exodus back to Net/Open. It’s already happening, both have increasing mailing list traffic and more contributors submitting code than ever.
The future is bright and more secure than ever. Let’s enjoy it.
Hudson Nelson
>#boat
u wot m8?
Jack Gomez
unices?
I think you mean UNIX's.
None of them are UNIX, UNIX is proprietary.
Matthew James
Bump, OpenBSD is great. Never installed NetBSD though.
Hudson Moore
> As FreeBSD ... stray further from their roots
what do you mean? FreeBSD is going for 1:1 port of OpenSolaris
Aaron Williams
s/OpenSolaris/Linux/
Christopher Perry
>he doesn’t know about the SunOS to Solaris switchover
How can Solaris be FreeBSD’s roots when it’s a SysV based OS?
Michael Cruz
That's its own fuckin paradox, it was unix enough to get sued by the owners of unix copyrights but at the time Real UNIX was using BSD code, admitting that BSD code is part of unix?
Isn't that just illumos? I didn't think FreeBSD was going anyfuckingwhere
Carson Howard
>no systemd port because it didn't start with bazaar syndrome in a first place
>no lvm port because it has superior geom , surprisingly not from OpenSolaris
>no epoll port because it has superior kqueue from OpenSolaris
>no butterfs because it has superior ZFS from OpenSolaris
>no ktrace and eBPF port because it has superior dtrace form OpenSolaris
>no alsa in kernel and pulseaudio because it stayed with OSS
>no netfilter, iptables or nftables because it has the chad PF from OpenBSD
>no LXC, LXD and bunch of other failures or docker because it has superior zones and jails from OpenSolaris
doesn't seem like cloning Linux to me at atll
Jackson Murphy
>UNIX's
That's singular ownership, you fucking middle school dropout. If you reject "Unices" as the plural of UNIX then it'd be "UNIXes" or "UNIXs"
Ryder Long
>FreeBSD
DEPRECATED
Jace Nguyen
>Real UNIX was using BSD code
BSD is a license, UNIX could run BSD licensed code, that doesn't make BSD UNIX YOU FUCKING RETARD.
Robert Lee
>typing in caps
It's like you're literally five
Landon Reed
learn history
Leo James
Why do people in 2018 talk about "real Unix" as if it's something good? Unix is an outdated OS concept from the 70s, it's too primitive to be effective nowadays we have more than 128k RAM. The main reason Linux is so popular it's because it doesn't care too much about being "real unix".
Evan Phillips
yet it still uses the same outdated kernel designs (and userspace) designs
Connor Lewis
Even if BSD could be considered actual UNIX, how the fuck that would be a good thing is beyond me.
That shit was invented so corporations like HP could tell you that your proprietary shit would run on their servers.
Now days people use it like its meant to be some kind of positive open source aspect, what a fucking joke.
Lucas Murphy
As in UNIX was distributed with BSD files, this was important in the actual court case (that nobody won).
See
Chase Perry
>The main reason Linux is so popular it's because it doesn't care too much about being "real unix".
Yet, linux brings nothing that "real unix" didn't already have.
Because SysVR4 has BSD 4.3 Code in it.
Hunter Lewis
BSD UNIX BSD BSD UNIX YOU FUCKING RETARD
Carson Butler
bump for the tripfag
yes, the base system is good. you should try the default utils before installing shit
dude whatevs
Oliver Ortiz
>cuck license
Robert Hill
>installed OpenBSD
>everything is 2 times slower than on lunix
>documentation sucks
>developers are basically doing security by obscurity
>only the minimal base install is supported, anything else the devs don't give a shit about
Lincoln Sanchez
See: and .
This is what i've been trying to tell you guys!
Asher Johnson
Your samefagging is obvious.
Landon Reed
we need to know your angle here though.
i said FreeBSD is just as good security wise for most average users or personal servers, but has none of these limitations that OpenBSD has
do you agree or are you shilling for Linux?
Ryan Long
>FreeBSD
>security
Pick one.
Carson Davis
see: I'm mostly shilling for GNU/Linux here.
is it?
Josiah Murphy
linux distros are shit for stability. ever linux machine i’ve maintained gets broken due to glitchy kernel updates that break the video drivers, NICs, pretty much every time there’s a reboot after a yum auto update runs on my CentOS 7 lab computer, it gets broken and requires an hour or two of debugging
my personal FreeBSD server has been perfect, OTOH. the FreeBSD team makes sure their OPERATING SYSTEM works from the kernel up through the optional user packages. if you want your server to run for years without any of the typical “unbreak my linux box” routine, go for BSD (and unless you’re a security freak or getting attacks or hosting “confidential” stuff, FreeBSD or DragonflyBSD is the way to go as opposed to OpenBSD.)
Nicholas Nelson
see:
Jaxon Mitchell
as if linux distris have better security. most of them besides corporate Red Hat /Canonical shitpiles don’t even implement SELinux. out of the box, FreeBSD is more secure than those anyway.
only linux distros that come close in terms of security are the ones that get you automatically added to FBI watchlists
plus who knows what are in your stupid RPMs. it’s all cobbled together by randos so you just need to “trust” whoever random person maintains that shit that they haven’t inserted backdoors.
in FreeBSD though, the few binaries that come with the OS (using pkg) are reviewed closely by the core team, ports are distributed as source so you can actually look at them to check for backdoors. not like the thousands of pieces of garbage yum tries to push to your machine (often automatically)
honestly, linux security is all about trusting huge companies like Red Hat and canonical to make the world safe for you. might as well buy a mac
Joseph Adams
FWIW, the system automatically runs fw_update on first boot/after updates
I like to think that you could sit a Stanford/MIT professor from the 1970s down at an OBSD console and they'd have few/nbo problems using it
>chad PF
i lol'd :)
learn OBSD and you find that all the strange differences/incompatibilities with linux and solaris are just deviations from Unix. there's nothing intrinsically better about "real Unix" vs. "GNU's not Unix," but OBSD does a lot of things right in the best way
sad! my experience is quite the opposite. especially when all the shitty linux ports crash because they leak memory and such.
the devs and ports mailing list care about the software packages, but they don't get the same Full Code Audit (tm) as the base system for obvious reasons.
firefox and thunderbird work fine, there are some long-tail bugs strewn about, same as what you can expect on some random AUR utility that nobody uses
>FreeBSD is just as good security wise for most average users
so is linux. OBSD is decidedly more hardcore in that if you install it, you don't want USB drives to auto-mount on insertion
Leo Morris
>only linux distros that come close in terms of security are the ones that get you automatically added to FBI watchlists
If you're not on all the watchlists, you're doing something wrong, user
Liam Sanders
>in FreeBSD though, the few binaries that come with the OS (using pkg) are reviewed closely by the core team
Hand picked third wave feminists and trannies.
I'll take OpenBSD that is maintained by actual security experts.
Hunter Jenkins
>those nog lips
AYO HOL UP
Kevin Moore
YEETon
Charles Mitchell
Cool logo.
Our company has switched from FreeBSD to OpenBSD when FreeBSD went full SJW retard last year. Best decision we ever made.
Unlike constantly broken binary packages on every minor freebsd-update, the OpenBSD ones just works. Few simple configs and you can focus on your work rather than trying to fix stupid oversights in freebsd-ports locally. Even using OpenBSD on my travel thinkpads now.
Jeremiah Myers
>Who's paying these anti-OpenBSD shills?
The government gives them your tax money.
Jackson Taylor
i call bullshit. what kind of "company" migrates their entire infrastructure from one OS to another because of "SJW retard" ?
is the president of IT of your company some sort of manager idiot / pointy-haired-boss who would be idiotic enough to say "based on political reasons unrelated to IT, please migrate the entire stack to a new operating system"???
sounds like a Jow Forumstard larping to me
Carson Diaz
When I installed OpenBSD I set
/etc/login.conf
datasize-max and datasize-cur to infinity for default and staff.
I know that's idiotic but thought it might help avoid problems since I'm pretty noob and never use over 5GB of my 8GB RAM anyway.
James Edwards
The company that cares about security of it's web services and it's customers private data.
FreeBSD since 9.x was a constant disappointment. Too much people hours went into maintaining the infrastructure, downtimes, staff overtimes, so admins had to choose either start buying Redhat subscriptions or use OpenBSD.
You can be sensitive about it all you want, but even you know that modern FreeBSD just sucks at everything.
OpenBSD developers provide rock-solid *and* secure OS to build upon your business.
David Martin
They did some good fucking documenting though, no joke.
Brandon Wilson
you're embarrassing yourself
Colton Morgan
based company
there's an entire company that specializes in helping you migrate to OpenBSD called M-Tier
they'll help with your servers and even make workstation images with libreoffice and all those kinds of tools
the staff limit is 1536M by default, but I find I still have to raise the default limit for things like firefox
same with raising the kern.openfiles.max parameter in sysctl.conf if you need to run a tor node
not a huge deal, security-wise, for a single-user personal machine. W^X, hardened malloc, pledge, etc. still function fine
yeah, I would never consider using anything but OpenBSD on a machine that stores user data
Josiah Diaz
>Unlike constantly broken binary packages on every minor freebsd-update, the OpenBSD ones just works
-stable doesn't get package updates though, do you compile it by yourself or using M-Tier? if M-Tier what is the experience with it?
Eli Ramirez
>lying and claiming OpenBSD packages don’t receive updates
>oh no my open sores software is very slightly old
Since free software development is so slow is this even a real concern? They do fix security issues, but is it the end of the world if your ls utility is six months old?
I see the same charge leveled at Debian but the fact is security > bleeding edge and this is how all reasonable OSs view the situation.
Blake Anderson
-stable is updated twice yearly
-current is the BSD equivalent of a linux rolling release
except when you update -current, you grab a snapshot and boot into bsd.rd. then you can upgrade the packages with pkg_add -D snap -u
bsdly.blogspot.com