Junior at pretty good uni

>Did you also fall for the Thinkpad meme
no..I just happened to have one before coming to Jow Forums
>Did you install Gentoo or Arch?
I-I tried them out..
>Do you use Vim/Emacs as your text editor?
keybindings just seem fun..
>Did you start with C and Haskell?
actually no, C and lisp..fuck.

kek this is like the guys on Jow Forums that actually do SS+GOMAD

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>Falls for low-level software == high IQ meme
lol retard

OP here.
I have a thinkpad for school, and macbook for work.
Running Debian on linux partition.
Using Vim.
Started with C++, but that was before Jow Forums.
How'd I do?

Because we EE are the masterrace in low level/embedded, get rekt cunt :^)

>Because we EE are the masterrace in low level/embedded
You're the kind of people who think it is a good idea to pack two integers into a double and use the decimal point to distinguish between them.

>Everyone I know who’ve gotten into FAANG are web dev kiddies
Except for Apple, these companies are all web companies.... What else did you expect?

Yes, this, but it is a god damn bubble, when that happens all webdev kiddies will get BTFO while actual engineers will continue to be irreplaceable, low level pays less today but it is still pretty good and stable, future proof if you want.
Don't get me wrong, I have one of those shitty jobs as well, meanwhile I keep studying something better because I know it won't last forever.

Embedded is not future proof, user. You make some niche product for 20 years, and then over night Intel or IBM or Oracle or Cisco develop something that renders your product obsolete, and then you spend months trying to find another embedded job where your extremely specific skills are applicable.

I am EE though. Low-level embedded is literally just copying data-spec sheets, manually counting clock cycles, and referencing obscure as fuck OS concepts.

>low-level software == high IQ
It is though

>You're the kind of people who think it is a good idea to pack two integers into a double and use the decimal point to distinguish between them.
w-w-what?

backend web dev does not involve html/css/js, and there's plenty of jobs. some companies will even have their backend in C or C++ if you really want that shit. backend usually involves designing systems, it's not just a data-fetching layer (unless it's some shit simple app). you can even use functional programming if your company allows it. backend web is top tier and they make the best money (besides maybe the top .1% of ML).

>some companies will even have their backend in C or C++
Before I became an embedded developer, I worked in a company that had a C++ backend for their web application, so I can confirm this.

Do you actually have to git gud for backend? I always figured it was just boring PHP/SQL shit. I’m fine with any career as long as it isnt writing pretty webpages in faggot.rails.js

yes, it's very complex and difficult, especially at large scale. however, plenty of companies will take in a junior and make you a code monkey. they tell you exactly what to do and you do it. you'll learn as you go, and one day you'll start designing systems yourself.

>your extremely specific skills
What does this even mean? In no field you stop learning, you always have to adapt?
You think the 54 year old software engineer senior programmer in my company that writes extensions for Magento 2 learned JavaScript or even PHP in uni? It doesn't matter, he learned the core concepts of software engineering and with that, you can pick any new technology to learn it applying what you already know as well.
Why would it be so different with low-level? You know the principles of electronics, you know programming and data structures, you know how a CPU works in general. Did you learn with a Z80? Or x86? Is there a new architecture? It doesn't matter, the principles hardly change, an engineer that is worth anything can easily adapt to the changes, it is part of your profession.

But low-tier shitty jobs that pay ridiculous amounts of money are always bubbles that don't last, it either becomes obsolete or extremely cheap because everyone starts realizing it is easy money and not that hard, any brainlet who can't even into Calculus can program a website, but not write a kernel or a modem driver.

>Do you actually have to git gud for backend?
Depends. I had a fairly good understanding of networking (my master thesis was on evaluating some latency reducing techniques to the TCP retransmission mechanism in the Linux kernel), which definitively helped when we were knee deep in optimizing using caches and load balancing etc.

Although many frameworks are used for web dev, it is usually more domain specific than that. For example, the web application that company made offered elastic search in image and video metadata, did some light image and video processing and a bunch of heavy file operations, so I touched on everything from search algorithms to video encoding to image processing to OS internals.

>jobless bitch boy thinks he's too good for full stack

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>What does this even mean? In no field you stop learning, you always have to adapt?
Not for embedded. You work for a company that makes a very niche product. It's never something new, only incremental changes to the existing product. The company will have no interest in sending you to conferences or courses or anything, since you're only fiddling around with that same set of products they've always made.

The technology rarely changes, you still write C which is more or less the same since the 90s. Burning firmware onto EEPROM is menial shit even a literal monkey could be trained to do. Setting GPIO pins is trivial. Everything is trivial and boring.

>companies only focus on one product

Even if they focus on many, you will most likely not work on more than one or a few.

>reading some datasheet with everything written out for you is high-IQ
>while front-end devs have to apply their aesthetic taste and imagination to make up good UIs
keep telling yourself that, low-level codemonkey

>You work for a company that makes a very niche product. It's never something new, only incremental changes to the existing product.
I mean when you switch to working for another company, with a new "niche" product, you just have to learn the new system, but you already have all the principles you need for that.
About the trivial rutinary parts, well, that exists in all jobs. I do backend programming at the moment while I study Electronics, sometimes I have fun programming some new features, and other times I'm fixing the same shitty trivial bugs over and over again, debug, see where it fails, and an extra control to contemplate the border case, repeat, doesn't take a genius, I know I'm not that smart.

webdev gets overpayed and theres a huge market for them. Great if you want to rake in some capital short-term, but you're easily replaced and always need to be ahead of the curve.

On the other hand, if you get to know people, your professors, etc, then all this low-level ML shit pays off when you get to work at deepmind or boston dynamics. Its pretty fucking sweeto. Best part is its hard to replace you because you are the doctor of the programming world.
To get there though you need to play your cards right, have some very interesting projects under your name, or which you have contributed to, know the right people, etc.

Job fairs are for beginner retard shit though, you never see scientists at a job fair.

there is absolutely nothing wrong with starting with C it's actually the best way kys

>backend and fullstack devs designing state of the art distributed computing architectures and highly scalable services are webdev kiddies
>reading off diagrams and specification manuals written by superior EE who did 99% of the work for you is "high IQ"

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>I mean when you switch to working for another company, with a new "niche" product, you just have to learn the new system, but you already have all the principles you need for that.
And these principles have been the same since ... virtually forever. And everyone learn these in school or can learn this on their own.

The point is that any additional experience you gain and stuff you learn on your job, is only relevant to that specific job, and not transferable to other jobs.

>>reading some datasheet with everything written out
Really? Do datasheets contain the code for every possible application?

C and Pascal are the best to learn the principles, and without using an IDE
OOP is only good if you are specifically interested in the practical application of programming in modern applications, if you just want to make stuff, but bad for actually understanding how computers work and make more complex things, even if you later do them with an OOP language, it doesn't matter.

The number of different applications you can make with some registers and a bunch of pins is relatively small, user.

real talk my dude, when i was in uni i half assed it and focused on applicaton dev stuff, but at least half the jobs ive applied for over the last year since i graduated are asking for web dev shit. also, dont half ass your fucking degree or itll be worthless, theres too many people doing comp sci for you to stand a hope in hell if you dont get a 1:1 or a 2:1 and/or a shitton of work experience before you leave uni.

You dont want to work at faang, appeasing shareholders is horrible

>Did you also fall for the Thinkpad meme, op?
not op but i'm too poor, have my eyes on an LG gram because its so light-wight, versitile, easy to upgrade memory, etc. My only complaint is that the camera is situated in a place i would rather not have it be.
>Did you install Gentoo or Arch?
I have Archery so technically the latter.
>Do you use Vim/Emacs as your text editor?
I use vim to edit everything man, its fucking fantastic and it gets better the more you use it. On my gravestone shall be "Bloatmacs eternally BTFO"
>Did you start with C and Haskell?
no, python.

pretty much, i have never seen an embedded project that's bigger than 500 loc while an average interactive webpage is at least 10k loc

Thats pretty wrong. Past experiences may not be directly helpful all the time, but everything you've learned/done can be applied to an extremely wide range of situations in some way. Quite often subconsciously, but it still helps.

For instance, why is it that people who are great at one sport tend to be above average at almost every sport? Why are people who are great at one video game usually at least pretty good at most games? etc.

>The point is that any additional experience you gain and stuff you learn on your job, is only relevant to that specific job, and not transferable to other jobs.
If you say so, quite honestly I very much doubt it, the experience still can mean you were a good at a job in the related field and I don't see why that would not add points over someone with no experience whatsoever programming embedded systems, it doesn't make sense.
And that's why pages are 50 fucking megabytes today.

>Did you also fall for the Thinkpad meme, op?
X60 and X200s
>Did you install Gentoo or Arch?
Arch on all my machines
>Do you use Vim/Emacs as your text editor?
Vim till I die
>Did you start with C and Haskell?
Python, back in the day

I'm obviously exaggerating, I'm not implying that *anyone* could do said job, but my point is that I have 15 years experience in the field (working for 5 different companies), and I regularly lose to people straight out of university even though I usually make it to the third round of interviews.

>the experience still can mean you were a good at a job in the related field
Being "good" at embedded only means that you're a habile C programmer and know how to read data sheets.

You have never worked in a real embedded project with dozens of microcontrollers and fpgas controlling motors, valves and other components with real time requirements, while communicating with each other through various protocols and updating info to a remote server.
The arduino line follower you did in school is not even close.

That's because they're younger and cheaper. Personally, I'd rather have more experienced employees, but there is some merit to having some kid making half as much as you are probably expecting for potentially 15 years longer.

>I regularly lose to people straight out of university even though I usually make it to the third round of interviews.
That can be for many things and depends what you are applying for.
If the job posting says "+5 years of experience required", which is pretty common, they will not hire a newgrad that never worked.
Obviously in positions that only require the degree, younger fresh newgrads are usually taken.
>you're a habile C
I could say the same about most 'developers' today, that's already a lot more than the average wevdeb or Javafag can handle this days, even if they are senior, really, there is no comparison in the complexity, you barely need to know about computers to write stuff on those languages, only the logic of the program, those people no matter how senior would not know how to handle a pointer or a list if their lives depended on it
Yeah but still depends on the job, again, if a kid out of college can do the job, then you with 15 years of experience are probably overqualified and should be applying to something else

Never heard of anybody getting "in" to ML without a phd, unless you mean pluggin into a service that a ML team has developed.

> Apple
> web

Lol

>That's because they're younger and cheaper.
Which means that experience = meaningless.

Not original poster, but I've seen this shit before in uni and in the real world. I've also seen people encode multiple bools and shorts into doubles.

Like why tho

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how is jscript or webdev any different
arguably it's worst, there's even less pioneering, the fields are regressing not advancing

Web dev pays wel in bay area.
Senior embebed pays well in every part of the globe.
Bay area is expensive as fuck.
There is a lack of low level programmers of any expertise.
There is only a lack of good web devs.

Choose wisely.

you know bitwise bools are good practice and crucial to software development right? or do i not understand your statement?

Why would you use a double for a bitfield, instead of a fixed length integer?

As said it depends on the job. He should probably be looking more into managerial roles rather than entry level with 15 years of experience. But no, it does not mean its meaningless, it just means that there's a dollar amount attached to it. Sure a ferrari or mcclaren will give you like 3-4x~ the performance of a camry, but is that performane increase going to be worth 10x+ more money? Probably not unless you really want a ferarri. I used an exaggerate example, but the concept is the same. Better isn't always "better" from a managerial perspective, a company's bottom line is unfortunately usually more important than its employees or even its goods/services. Especially if its a publicly traded company

Doing software for money and making quality software is two different things.

no, absolutely not unless you're working on very limited hardware. it's not worth saving 4 bytes of memory by making the code unreadable trash.

All those things are OK as long as you take themm as learning fundamentals. And they will make you a better dev. But in the end you must remember what matters is the product.
A guy that has fundamentals can and must adapt. A guy that start with lang and framework of the month has trouble switching and will be a liability in the long run.
The problem is: people get in love with fundamemtals and perfictionism instead of the problem. Fundamentals are a means not the end.

#define MODE1 1
#define MODE2 2
#define MODE3 4
...
int param_modes = MODE1 | MODE4;
...
if (param_modes & MODE1) {
//do something
}
if (param_modes & MODE2) {
//do other things
}
if (param_modes & MODE4) {
//do other things
}

T retard web dev

>any brainlet who can't even into Calculus can program a website, but not write a kernel or a modem driver.
And why the fucc would I need calculus for if I'm writing drivers? Fucking boomers

ParamModes paramModes = ParamModes.builder()
.withMode1(true)
.withMode3(true)
.build();

if (paramModes.isMode1()) {
// do something
}
if (paramModes.isMode2()) {
// do something else
}
if (paramModes.isMode3() {
// do another thing
}

probably not a good idea to use if statements for that either though.

>any brainlet who can't even into Calculus can program a website, but not write a kernel or a modem driver.
This is demonstratively wrong, since I failed calculus and dropped out, and now make a living from writing Linux kernel modules and firmware.

I didn't say you needed calculus for that, I said if you can't even into calculus much less you can write anything decent in C.

Nice projection.
>Fuck, I don't even know why I still come here.
Because you are a fucking idiot.

checked

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The absolute state of java developers
Jesus Christ

Bitmasks will take up significantly less cycles and ram than that mess

EE get paid less though even with 20 years experience lol

>having to use a structure instead of an int for a simple task
i could define another variable to to bitAnd with param_modes and use switch instead but i'm merely demonstrating how it works, fewer vars is better for this.

>arguing about performance

like i said, the small amount of memory you save is negligible unless you're working in embedded systems. your code might be fine for something under 1000 lines, but you'll hate yourself if you do that shit in a big project.

Whats your career been like? Howd you start out? Any advice?

But an EE didnt do that

>Any advice?
Stay in school, embedded sucks hard and I've stagnated salary-wise.

2 instructions instead of a few hundred is a big deal my dude
Think about this at scale, your server is being accessed by millions of users every day, those 200 instructions you use rapidly cost cpu performance when at scale, and then you do similar in a billion other places
It adds up

>that 30 year old boomer who doesnt just use javascript for everything like a normal person

Not necessarily embedded, but systems programming really interests me. I dont care if it doesnt pay as much, if I enjoy it more than I would with another job

Get into low level security research
You make real money

high IQ != high salary
Terry Davis is a homeless genius

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More likely is that ML is big data propriety and guards it. Eg Google has an entire AI opensource api and they didnt build it without putting it to work internally too. Theyve been scraping training data for over a decade.

>full stack
making 350k at faang right now, laughing at your life

Whats the job like?

java for backend, angular for front end, typical setup

Sounds like youre really worth that 350k

i would be making 150k max in texas

>embedded
>landed job at largest aerospace company

If you are doing embedded, you will be safe in the automobile and aerospace sector. Keep in mind that firmware eng & embedded sys prog jobs are hard to find if you don't have 1-2 years of experience.

What should I do to get that experience. Will companies accept 2 years of general programming experience (as an actual job) if you have side projects that dabble im embedded?

>this ux engineer 300k starting anywhere I want

Does embedded pay well, user? All I hear nowadays are muh 300K SV Google job.

when asked for X years of experience, they are looking for someone who has worked for/with a company for that amount. They want someone (your old boss) that they can call and ask questions about your performance while working for that company.

>What should I do to get that experience.
Work. It is so easy to make a resume, fill your personal info, and send a job/internship application-- you want to do this in your software year (looks impressive when you do this early on your career).

If you don't have years of experience, make sure you put your largest projects (less than a year old). I had 2 years of experience, and I put different projects on my resume.

I was offered 70k for a level 1 software eng. In my opinion, this is a great pay for a novice plus awesome benefits.

>70k for a level 1 software eng. In my opinion, this is a great pay for a novice plus awesome benefits.
Google starts at around 200k

I know this is bait, but for others: Search on Glassdoor and see for yourself

glassdoor is out of date, see levels.fyi/
level 3 is new grad

Hm, I think front end webdev stuff has some job openings that are really paying way too much for what is being asked. I don't think it will last longer than 5 years though (the high salaries for front end stuff).

Data science stuff is very lucrative as well. You have jobs paying 200k$+ if you're good at it. These jobs require a master degree at minimum and often ask for experience. So probably you're going to be chained to academia for a while doing a phd if you want to go into this direction. If you actually do manage to stick to it you'll probably be set the rest of your life financially and can retire early. That's of course if you move after your phd out of academia into business. Because business pays you 4-5x more than an university.

Don't restrict yourself, nigger.

When you prevent yourself from learning new aspects because it's "not good enough for you", then you're no longer defined by your abilities; you're defined by your tastes. Only a nigger would be that pretentious.

Go out and live to your fullest potential, nigger.