I'm good now

Indeed I have. I mostly do JS in fact, maybe that's why I'm biased against it.

Another reason might be that JS is so overrated that it makes me sick, whereas PHP isn't too bad but nobody likes it.

someone post the guy who got bullied irl for using PHP

it's __better__ = '__use_python__'

PHP:already at version 7.
Python: still stuck at 3 while trying to get rid of the 2 baggage.

There is no contest, PHP clearly is superior.

>whereas PHP isn't too bad
PHP is a pile of horse shit, user. I'll admit that it has gotten slightly better over the years, but so has JavaScript. Both still have to deal with the legacy of some truly terrible design choices from the beginning.

It's great for most of us crudmonkeys. To be honest for most software engineering jobs dealing with db interfaces with

By that logic, you should use C++ 2017 then, because that's 2000 better than PHP 7.

Yes he is.
Hey , I'm diagnosing you as retarded.
You should store this official internet diagnose somewhere save.

shit is everybody on Jow Forums working on space magic scalable embedded performance critical code ?

I've never been limited by my language choice other than not choosing hipster stuff so I don't have to teach new hires monads bullshit

I do.

Come back when Python gets rid of self.

Attached: doc.png (734x524, 481K)

>BCHS
As in BSD, C, httpd, SQLite? What this has to do with PHP? You're supposed to be using CGI C instead.

Php is the best scripting language, truth is that people are mostly drones with no minds and since 10-15 y ago someone said PHP was bad ... here we are

I don't think PHP is shit because of it's performance, I think most people on Jow Forums make ridiculous claims regarding their performance needs.

My main issue with PHP is it's retarded architecture design, stemming from the beginning where it was conceived as a sort-of template language, it's insistence on using C naming convention and parameter for core standard library stuff, while throwing all that out of the window for later extensions to the standard library, the whole farse that is its typing system (not only that it is weak typing, but it has some pretty weird implicit type conversions that only an insane person would come up with), etc.

So I don't shit on its performance, I think it is an awful ecosystem and a horrible language.

>what is HHVM

PHP7 kept having ram leakage issues and I couldn't get my shit stable until I downgraded back to php 5.6 and it's been smooth sailing since.

Dude the self stuff makes perfect sense, how can that trip you up
Just realize that obj.F(a, b) = F(obj, a, b) and that any method of obj is really just a function using obj. This abstraction/unabstraction works for all oop.

HHVM only supports a subset of PHP with mandatory custom extensions (like type concretisation).

well your arguments at least make sense. I'm probably overlooking those cons because of 10yrs+ experience with the language.

What happened to PHP 6?

How C naming convention can be a bad thing ?

it's in the valley beyond
with perl 6

It is when you mix it with "Perlisms", "Rubyisms" and other conventions from vastly different languages. PHP is a bastardized mix of popular languages.

And php has __construct among others. Not really an argument anyway.

Rakudo works fine for me, though I see no point using it over Python, Ruby et al including the fact that I don't like Perl syntax.

What are you talking about, PHP is older than ruby

I only use PHP, do you fucking neets even code? PHP is more than enough for any web app, if its slow then you suck at coding

Not being a dick, but you're wrong. Check out some PHP 7.2 benchmarks, it's surprisingly fast.

They don't

Python has dogshit OOP and PHP has the strongest type hinting system of all three.

>PHP is older than ruby
Are you stupid? You do now that PHP7 was just recently released, right? You do know that they continue to make new versions of PHP and borrow ideas from other languages?

You do know that PHP syntax has not changed you autistic piece of shit ?

Python is okay but it clearly wasn't meant for websites. There isn't even a real postgres adapter, just a bunch of halfassed classes and low level functions. At least PHP had the decency to rehaul their adapter with PDO, which is still shit, but at least they tried.

First of all, it actually has changed. Secondly, I'm not talking about syntax, I'm talking about concepts, library functions, etc.

You do know that PHP didn't have anonymous functions and lambdas until version 5 or 6, right? You do know that PHP didn't have type hinting until version 4?

Their standard library is full of functions that are clearly inspired by other languages, most notably C and Perl, but also Python and Ruby. Hell, many modern PHP frameworks try to emulate Ruby on Rails for fuck's sake.

Does anyone have a book recommendation for learning PHP in depth, under the hood, and that sort of stuff ?

Class semantics may be better than the ones of Python or Ruby, but that isn't hard; I guess I will wait for PHP8 when they have derprecated more retarded stuff.

Something that will be HackVM only soon enough and is developed by a botnet company.

So evil php copied ruby function and that's bad !
Grow up

But I never let you go
That's why I deliver while Ruby cucks don't

>So evil php copied ruby function and that's bad !
Actually, Laravel copied some part of ASP.NET and that is bad, because it's slow.

And symfony copied a lot of J2EE and symfony sucks.
Your point still isn't relevant

Nice strawman, but that's not at all what I said you fucking stupid shit. I responded to this post: >How C naming convention can be a bad thing

To which my original answer in is a valid point. I said nothing to indicate that being inspired by other languages is wrong, in fact, I think that it is a good thing. But being inspired by C naming conventions, C character encoding and C standard library in the 2000s is just fucking retarded and basically asking for a bunch of problems.

Most people working with C today are struggling with the massive legacy burden that is C. PHP developers unironically believe that legacy is a good thing.

>retarded architecture design
What you mean retarded? Being an inspired-by-many-others language isn't bad perse. Also I guess good PHP programmers (not your cousin but ones hired for example by Facebook) will use some common practices. So, what will it take PHP to become sane? Reading the probably outdated php-a-fractal-of-bad-design numerous issues seem to be implementation-related where a consistency and sink-cleaning will result in a temporal Python2/3-like split but won't be devastating.

> Both still have to deal with the legacy of some truly terrible design choices from the beginning.
Yep
> PHP is a pile of horse shit, user.
Not any more than JS

I'm not saying it's a good language in general. I'd rather use something completely different, like C or Scala or Haskell or POSIX sh, depending on the application. But it's not the terrible pile of stinking shit people make it out to be anymore, and I wouldn't particularly prefer using JS over it.

On the other hand JS has promises, and I'm so used to them that it would be annoying, but that's like the only thing I can think of.

why do redditors think they know all?
youtube.com/watch?v=rKXFgWP-2xQ
check around 10mins where he talks about JIT

It's faster than both. Out of the box Laravel isn't a speed demon, but with a bit of tweaking it stomps RoR and Django.

>What you mean retarded?
Read the entire sentence, I clearly specify what exactly I find stupid.
>[...] it was conceived as a sort-of template language

>Also I guess good PHP programmers (not your cousin but ones hired for example by Facebook) will use some common practices
Facebook hire literal Pajeets though, through an excessive (over)use of H-1B visas. But that aside, as it isn't the point, yes, of course good programmers will use sane conventions and practices. But I'd still argue that any language or ecosystem design that continue to carry obviously flawed legacy design suffers because it will either result in massive technical debt or it will result in restrictions on the future path.

>Not any more than JS
wew and yikes, user
>It's faster than both.
Not hard.
>Out of the box Laravel isn't a speed demon, but with a bit of tweaking it stomps RoR and Django.
Not hard.

None of your point are valid you stupid autistic fuck. Do you think that you're smart will reciting some stupid shit that you dont understand, proving nothing except for your bad faith ?

Do you have any arguments? Or are you just mad that I pointed out your obvious strawman argument and tried to bring the discussion back on track?

I'll interpret your unwarranted outburst of anger as an admission of defeat and/or lack of understanding of the problem.

I would argue that since PHP has no multi threading, it wasn't designed for anything except web dev, which means it should be an expert at that.

On the other hand, Javascript clearly works best integrated into a GUI so it should be an expert at that (and not abused as a server side language).

Python tries to be general purpose but only really excels at list comprehension.

>PHP is even comparable to JS
What the fuck are you on about? Give me some examples where JS drops the ball so bad that it's even close to the shittiness of PHP

> Php is the best scripting language
OH NONONONONONO

var vs let

You're too self entitled to understand anything, I'm sorry that my poor skill in english had led your ego to burst but whatever since you look the autistic type it doesnt change shit I guess, whatever i'll focus a little in order to explain to you something.

You have nothing against PHP ,really, you'e talking of strawman but you're the one with no args.
At first you were like "php suck because it looks like C"
then "php suck because it looks like all popular languages"
then "php suck because of both"

You have no real reason to hate PHP and refuse to admit it

Sure! How about NPM is a horrid mess, let's start there:

hackernoon.com/im-harvesting-credit-card-numbers-and-passwords-from-your-site-here-s-how-9a8cb347c5b5

Oh, and don't forget fucking pad left

theregister.co.uk/2016/03/23/npm_left_pad_chaos/

This so much. I honestly haven't had any issue with PHPs performance in years and years. Things like RAM and CPU resources for a website used to matter ten+ years ago but today it's pretty cheap for a dedicated server or ten with 32 GB RAM and a fast octa core or better. Not sure why anyone is arguing about that. Doesn't really matter if one language is 0.1ms fast than another.

But writing things in PHP.. that's always been horrible. Consider strpos and str_rot13, everything is inconsistent. Numbers are converted automatically when possible, so "888abc" == "888" even though "888abc" != "888". And "2.2" == "2.20" and so on. == is mostly useless. There's a lot of things like this that produces all kinds of odd bugs.

PHP is basically something that was a very simple template language that got more and more features thrown at it with no overall plan and zero consideration for what was already present. nobody cared if they named something newfeature or new_feature, nobody cared how other similar languages work and so on.

Prototyping, copy by reference, scoping ...

>At first you were like "php suck because it looks like C"
>then "php suck because it looks like all popular languages"
>then "php suck because of both"
Except YOU are the one that focused on C, my original post was this post: To which you responded:
>How C naming convention can be a bad thing ?
Basically you fucking ignored my entire post and replied only to a specific part of my post, then you got upset about it, despite you being the one that narrowed it down in the first place.

You're so fucking stupid I'm seriously wondering how the fuck you are even able to breathe at this point.

Was meant for Yes, I agree. I mean, PHP has improved over the years, but it still struggles with legacy from the period you are describing, where nobody seemed to give a fuck about the direction.

Never use "var". It's an ancient language feature and there's no reason to consider it a part of the language in 2018.

That has _nothing_ to do with JS the language. Malicious packages are possible on any popular package manager.

Prototypical inheritance is neater than the class-based, but either way using inheritance is retarded. There is no copy by reference in JS. Scoping is same as any other popular language.

I'm waiting for the actual arguments agains JS that make it even remotely as bad as PHP with its gimped closures, "$", complete lack of modules, error handling, ...

Trust me you fucking autist, you don't want me to say anything on the other point you talked an out in your original post because of your girl ego and your clear inability to self awareness

No thanks, I'm good with Perl.

If you don't want type coersion use the static typing system which is actually pretty good now.

Regarding consistency, this is something the 'fractile of bad design' post harps on but it's never actually been a concern for me. I always just ref the docs or the args are hinted by my IDE.

Maybe some folks are spacewizards who comit the vagaries of function argments of every language they use to memory so they can code like it's cruse control for cool but it's never been my tact. Brain is for problem solvy, not 'remember a bunch of junk that's just going to change anyhow'.

>That has _nothing_ to do with JS the language. Malicious packages are possible on any popular package manager.

It totally does when it's the culture of the language to eat deps like they're candy without any consideration for security because there is no standard library

>"I have good arguments that would DESTROY your argument, but I'm too smart to bother"
Quality post.

You did the same 5 times you retard

Stay mad.

$arr['key']
>crashes if there's no such key in "array" (which is really a map but called an array because arrays are maps too in PHP, yay)
>crashes if your "array" happens to be an object instead (since you know we need two types for "arrays" and objects, even though they function identically)

Stay childish then

Every language has a standard library, JS is not the smallest

Dude, you're the one that so far only replied with a straw man and refuses to present your argument because I'm apparently a "little ego girl"....

I'm still waiting for any arguments of why I'm wrong about any of the things I've mentioned.

>hackernoon.com/im-harvesting-credit-card-numbers-and-passwords-from-your-site-here-s-how-9a8cb347c5b5
This could happen with any language. It terrified me when I read it.

Well I use platonic technique to use your args against your logic to prove that your args dont matter even to you

PHP was always good. The haters don't like it because they are too dumb to avoid shooting themselves in the foot when the language hands them a gun.

Attached: 5f06e803d2f68f6e0473a7b1f286503d12adca25b7f8f5055c4c5d1f848f0639.jpg (268x237, 16K)

similarly messy type handling
no numeric arrays
semi colon insertion
implicit global variables
== does type coercion by default (pic related)
no standard library which results in the npm hell
designed originally for DOM manipulation
awkward object-orientation
also see wtfjs.com/

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The only case you've made so far is that PHP advocates apparently are unable to even understand the criticism of their language, let alone respond to that criticism.

Whatever lol

Quality reply.

PHP was always bad, lately it's just less bad. The proverbial gun by default points at your head and locks up half the time. Trash language written by complete morons (literally Jow Forums level intelligence) that evolved (not designed) from an HTTP wrapper around C.

Well, yeah duh - but Node is particularly bad about what it includes because of it's origin and age, see pad left

As well you should! And that is correct - this could happen to anything with a package management system.

When you consider the scope of the problem and how it extends upstream, it's a real nightmare. The problem I have with a lot of the culture that's built up around Node is that this is completely unadressed. The use of a LOT of deps (remember how janky the node_modules directory has been?) is simply the norm with Node.js.

People like to say that the worst part of PHP is that people who don't know what they're doing can make something sort of work and get it up into production. Node.js is keeping this tradition alive and well, to the ruin of us all.

Dynamic typing is a subjective preference, but since JS happens to be dynamic there's no reason for it not to also support coercion. You'll have to consider it an annoyance (== vs === etc) and get used to it. If coercion somehow gives you problems you've made some absolute novice mistakes.
>no numeric arrays
In what way?
>semi colon insertion
Type your semicolons, dumbass
>implicit global variables
Every language more or less has these. Are you referring to window.*? Because you can use them by their explicit name and overwrite the globals.
>no standard library which results in the npm hell
We already went over this, it does have a standard library
>designed originally for DOM manipulation
Absolutely irrelevant what it was initially designed for
>awkward object-orientation
I don't see any major problems here. Either way, OOP is for brainlets.

Still comes nowhere near PHP's badness

just no

>Absolutely irrelevant what it was initially designed for
Why it's relevant when it is for talking shit on PHP ?

Ruby, Python, and Perl all encourage the same sort of thing. Its pretty much standard practice for webdev

Are the docs for all of your versions still rolled into one?

Sadly yes

I don't think a lot of languages have a "left-pad" function in their standard library. The bigger issue than the language is the retards using it. left-pad isn't even that bad, now is-odd is where the badness lies.

It isn't, and I haven't said it is.

Speaking of PHP, I was noticing that job postings for other languages like say C, C++, etc, all high stratospheric requirements and credentialism. Meanwhile it seems a lot of PHP job postings have more down to earth requirements. So I'm wondering would it be a good strategy to try to learn PHP in depth enough to pass a interview and get a job with a title like "PHP Developer" to get experience to be able to eventually get one of those entry level jobs that require experience?

Why on earth would I want to write php, the ultimate amateur language, when there are so many better alternatives? You need to understand that whatever improvements are made the people who write php now are largely the same people who wrote php 5 which means libraries will be shit and so will the community be. php is, was and will alwasy be a joke language for retarded amateurs.

Modern PHP is like java with the speed of python. So why not just java lads?

>BCHS is the way to go
Doesn't BCHS use null-terminated strings everywhere? That sounds like a recipe for high performance.

>java with the speed of python
So.... slow? Fast?