/pcbg/ - PC Building General

The 8700K is the only Intel CPU worth getting at the moment

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b8 benchmark

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>dx-12 not good with Intel
>overclocked CPU and ram
>ashes of the singularity
You know this is a bad bench bru. I don't know why you guys keep posting it

>8400
>slower ram
>"max" frequency 4.0ghz(really 3.8ghz)
Vs
>2600
>faster more expensive ram(almost twice the price)
>max frequency 4,2ghz overclocked
This level of shilling should be criminal. What have you guys been doing!?

Im defending intel from the broken benchmarks the shills post, actually.

>buying 8700k for gaming
>$350 CPU for 1080p
There's no reason to buy Intel for gaming right now with how low Ryzen chips are priced +AM4 support. If a productivity application benefits from Intel then sure.

>b8 benchmark
In the one you posted the 2600 still beats it, stop recommending a maxed out CPU

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now post gta 5 or pubg aka the most played games of all time

>with how low ryzen chips are priced
you need a ram that costs more than the cpu to match intels perfomance lol
>maxed out cpu
Nice meme. And because i know you will post crysis and bf1 screenshots dont because i will post the chart showing 2700x stuttering more than the 8400

>overclocked CPU and ram
>bru
The 8400 is locked, the stock cooler is enough for 4GHz and the $35 H7 would be enough for 4.2GHz
>faster more expensive ram(almost twice the price)
LOL the price difference just keeps increasing with you shills, it's $30 more faggot
>slower ram
They tested with a 3200MHz CL14 kit but it downclocked because of the B360 motherboard used
Here you go

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Got any recommendations for a 1070ti?

>talk about 2700x vs 8700k
>retard posts random other benchmark i didn't even ask for

jesus christ learn to read you sad 3rd worlder

>because i know you will post crysis and bf1 screenshots dont because i will post the chart showing 2700x stuttering more than the 8400
You're the only one looking at those graphs that denies the 8400 spiking more

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>you need a ram that costs more than the cpu to match intels perfomance lol
To match an 8700k? Sure, the CPU is only $200. But I bought $160 16GB CL15 3000mhz ram which is still up there. If you're going to look at RAM cost then you'll have to include delid cost for the 8700k.

>Nice meme.
>57% GPU usage with a 1070

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>Im defending intel from the broken benchmarks the shills post, actually.
Good stuff. Another thing people for get to note is reviewers tend to get golden samples and being able to match that overclocked is in no way guaranteed. Safe to say its 50/50 on purchase.
>$30 more
Not everyone is American.
Also as I said above. Is overclocking to 4.2 guaranteed?

The GTS apparently has a better PCB than the high end versions of other cards, including Sapphire.
But GTR-S if those ever come down in price are even better, though the coolers don't seem to be great.

What are the cheapest ones? Are you sure you don't just need a 1060 or RX580 instead?

Lol. All I'm saying is Intel is unfairly represented now the shill wars has commenced.

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not even him but that's not what all videos im watching are showing

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>Got any recommendations for a 1070ti?
No small form factors. 3 fans is probably preferable to 2 and 2 to 1.
The less/bigger the fan the louder and worse temps.
They're all basically the same so I've got no recommendations
youtu.be/YIxlKG3Mhpc
youtu.be/wa-4e6SCh64
I like this guys reviews. His queer soothing voice and good knowledge helps a lot when making decisions

Cheapest ones are around $460, but I was l looking at around the $500 mark.
What is the difference between MSI's Gaming and Titanium cards? The most I can tell is that the Titanium card is a bit heavier built.

>2600 at stock
The screenshots that I posted were in Multiplayer (64 Player Operations)

complete newbee here, whats the name of those cases that have the little drawers to put the HD on then?

my current toaster is on the edge of becoming obsolete, gonna upgrade it little by little starting with a better case

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>ryzen
>45%
>Intel
>90%
Poor guys..
Can't answer that but the 1060 is at its limits now and 1070ti is like %25 more powerful for in terms of longevity its the better option

ok here is a well threaded game (hitman) and even with OC 2600 it has more stutter and lower fps.

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>that build
Disgusting.... You sure you need to upgrade the case? You seem to be poor so I think rather save where you can and keep the case

in this one the 2600 has less gpu usage and higher fps but much more stutter again
i think the conclusion is without very fast ram ryzen stutters a lot

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>86% usage
To think I was gonna buy a 8400 cause its the best bang for buck I can get. What GPU are they using anyways?
I need a PC to last me 5 years but I'm scared with what next gen is gonna push

>more stutter
I can see similar spikes (and higher frametimes) on the 8400 too
>lower fps

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and again

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They mostly use 1080ti to avoid as much bottleneck as possible. If you are playing on 1440p there is no question between 2600x and 8400. 8400 is easy pick because its so much cheaper and cpu are all the same at that resolution.
2 fps more for 100 bucks nice

both will last you 5 years and both will be shit in 5 years so get the cheapest one and use the savings to get a 1070 or something. you will have a gpu bottleneck with both unless using a 1080 ti

But... that is showing the Intel CPU at 90%. And the unlocked Ryzen CPU is at stock.
You don't think upcoming games will be even more demanding?

>MSI's Gaming and Titanium cards
Not really really. The Gaming X cooler should be fine.
But I'd only get a 1070Ti if you already have a 144hz and/or 1440p monitor.

>ok here is a well threaded game (hitman) and even with OC 2600 it has more stutter and lower fps.
The 2600 is on the left, though.
It's slightly smoother. The big hitches are when it's loading a new level, no? Hitman benchmark is known to have predictable hitches when it loads the next level to benchmark.

Anyway, no one really recommends the 2600 either. It's the 2600X with PBO enabled that gets recommended. Too bad almost all youtubers are too retarded to go into the BIOS to enable PBO and do actual good comparisons.

So for that kinda overclock would I have to buy a decent yet more expensive mobo?

Not really, X470 or B450 would have out of the box compatibility (you might need a BIOS update with B350 or X370 but you can order a free boot kit from AMD) and more power phases but if a Tomahawk Arctic can handle a 2700X at 4.2GHz and more with XFR2 a PC Mate or Tomahawk shouldn't have issues since it's the same motherboard with slightly different heatsinks
youtube.com/watch?v=f8MDhARk0ec

I'll probably get the Titanium just for the black/white color scheme then. I'll be getting a good monitor to go with it.

Different question but is 33mm enough clearance to plug in the power cable to the GPU?

This is the only one where 2600 is actually getting more microstutters.

But yes, most of us would generally recommend a 2600X with b-die, but if that's out of someone's budget then to just get the 8400 with 2666 RAM.

A test with 2600 and slower RAM is pretty useless in comparison and unrepresentative of what me and others recommend. Also, a bad OC can be the result of those microstutters.

No. There's plenty of cheaper b350 boards which have been updated to support PBO.
Though I have heard that, strangely, some of those B350 boards support PBO on X CPUs but not the non-X ones.

But if your budget is only like $700ish, yeah the i5-8400 might be the better buy. There's even prebuilts around $700 with an i5-8400 and RX580 8GB.
If you can spend more around $900-$1100, the 2600X is better to go with (with other better components to go with it)

the guy who made that benchmark said if you're considering spending more on an expensive mobo and faster ram for ryzen you should just get a 8600k. if you don't believe me just search up techspot 8400 vs 2600

>you don't think upcoming games will be even more demanding?
Lol no, there is no difference between most games from 5 years ago and now. Devs are lazy and dont want to put effort on making games better optimized. And stop saying spikes are only caused by cpu usage. IT FUCKING DEPENDS ON THE GAME

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Got a 1060 last year so I'll suffer it for as long as I can.
But considering 8400 CPU usage its easy to see which will last longer.
I truly believe in more cores and threads are the way and 2600 beats 8400 in that
Isn't pbo relatively new? That's why there aren't any reviews with it on.
Next gen is gonna push game devs like it always does

>If you are playing on 1440p there is no question between 2600x and 8400.
>can't stay above 45FPS

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I'm in the process of building a PC, got an okay deal for a Ryzen 2600X today (169€). I'm also getting a new monitor this year, preferably one with Free-Sync. Now since I don't want to shell out a fuckton of money for a G-Sync monitor, am I right in assuming that the RX580 is pretty much my best option for a GPU? Also, should I be getting a B350 or X470 motherboard?

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48*
>spikes are only caused by cpu usage
Never said that but you can clearly see the GPU usage dropping because the CPU can't handle it and in your own graph the 8400 spikes more

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its not that bad, i can run nier at amazing 24 frames per second

the case is needed, its too small to change stuff inside and the front usb part broke down, im having to use a generic usb hub

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Thought they put shit vrms on cheaper mobos which makes overclocking shit or some shit.
Like it cause the mobo to throttle during overclock basically wasting your overclock efforts
That actually makes more sense as your not wasting your time with the effort
As I said above with vrm throttle. I remember a reviewer pointing it out on an 8700 or a 8400. But im just applying it to cheaper ryzen boards

people said the same about the fx 8350 vs the 2600k and look at it now. both are complete shit now (well not shit but sub optimal) yet the quad core still beats out the 8 core solely because of perf per core

If you're buying a new monitor, you should likely be looking at Vega56. Same or better performance and monitors are around $120-$300 cheaper.

He's wrong tho. 8600k is stupid expensive to only have 6 threads.
That's one guy's (bad) opinion. He doesn't even know how to overclock properly and has been proven bullshit on a lot of his rushed out, shoddy methodology videos.

The reason his stuff gets spammed on Jow Forums is because he does bullshit clickbait for all sides. You can find new shit every month in his videos to cherry pick to support your product of choice, whether it's Intel, AMD, or Nvidia.

I mean that's somewhat truth because 2013 was the year that they really started making more CPU demanding games all of a sudden. GTAV, Metro LL, Crysis 3, Witcher, and some others all use 8 threads and stutter with anything less (including 6c/6t as just showed)
And now still, 8 threads is the usual target, though a lot of so because consoles are 8 threads.

This is why 6c/12t is the current sweet spot, though 8c/16t doesn't hurt. You have all that the game needs, and plenty left over for everything else running on your PC.

And as for RAM, yes. I have a 1600X myself, which has pretty bad memory latency by default. I was getting some stutters (though not remotely as bad as my 2500k) until I overclocked my RAM to 2800. I'd eventually like to get even faster RAM, but I mostly use my PC for work and don't game a ton. It's smooth as ufck.

PBO launched with the 2000 series. It's been a few months. It should be standard to just enable PBO instead of underclocking and calling it an OC.

Those cheap b350 boards are still made to run at least a 105w TDP chip like the 8 core 2700X at stock (I think around 150-200w generally, even), so they have headroom to boost a 6 core more.

>Like it cause the mobo to throttle during overclock basically wasting your overclock efforts
I just showed you a cheap B350 doing it without issues
>I remember a reviewer pointing it out on an 8700 or a 8400. But im just applying it to cheaper ryzen boards
That's not how it works, those ones throttle because the stock cooler is a piece of shit

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I hope you are ready to spend 210€ for b-die or your build will be shit
>the 8400 spikes more
You might have to check your eyes
There is no difference in average perfomance between cpus in 1440p except your cherrypicked games. The cheaper the better if your going 1440p

>GTAV, Metro LL, Crysis 3, Witcher, and some others all use 8 threads
no they don't. gta 5 is one of the most single core heavy games and even a g4560 could run it at over 60 fps. those games only stutter if you have 8gb ram.

>That's not how it works, those ones throttle because the stock cooler is a piece of shit
that stock intel cooler is identical to the wraith stealth i.e. the 2600 cooler

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>Intel
>+50fps jumps
No wonder it provides such a smooth stutter free experience

It depends on what you play
youtube.com/watch?v=k2TzgRgdkHg&t=170s
>should I be getting a B350 or X470 motherboard
B350 if you want to cheap out but if you can afford a X470 like the Gaming Plus go for it because they have more power phases and better VRMs (or wait for B450). Look for B-Die RAM if possible to overclock it more than a CAS16 kit
caseking.de/g.skill-ripjaws-v-series-rot-ddr4-3200-cl14-16-gb-dual-kit-megs-119.html

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Afaik the 8350 mostly wound up nearly matching the 2500k in AAA games the past 2 or 3 years. But compared to the 2600k? Yeah still behind. But that 2600k was like $350 and FX 8350 like $150.

The 8350 did age better than the i3s and largely even the 2500k (except in highly single threaded shit like World of Warships, lots of indie games, GTAV which I'm amazed was never really patched to support it, etc) that it really competed against. At least it was fairly smooth when it did have lower FPS.

But that's irrelevant, because the 8350k was something like 40% behind the IPC of Sandy Bridge, so even even if something was threaded well its theoretical performance wasn't much higher.
In the case of Ryzen, you can see many cases TODAY where the 2700X actually does beat the 8700k in games that are just slightly better threaded. The single threaded performance is close enough that just minor improvements to multithreading has the 2700X pull ahead.

I've also never really heard of "VRM throttling"
The VRMs are usually specced at 125C. It's rare for them to get over 110C or so unless you're doing a dodgy ass overclcok.
I'm fairly certain that they don't have individually sensors and just pop when they overheat too much.

Okay. You're just making things up so it's pointless to "discus" with you. You could easily spend a moment googling and verify that you have no fucking clue what you're talking about, and that GTAV does use at least 8 threads heavily (and with 16 it'll still use 8 of the 16 lightly). But instead you just pull shit out your ass.

Again, who is recommending the 2600? Most of us recommend the 2600X or 2700X for gaming. Why are you arguing against an imaginary person making arguments that no actual user is?

>Also, should I be getting a B350 or X470 motherboard?
B450 should be coming out this month.
The ~$70 or so saved could put you closer to a Vega56 if you want to go the 1440p route.
I don't know monitor prices where you're at, but in the US you can get a 1440p 75hz Freesync IPS monitor for relatively cheap.

But yes, for cheaper monitors it's generally to go RX580/Vega56 and Freesync. Only exception I've seen to this is in Canada.

>Again, who is recommending the 2600?
literally everyone recommending ryzen in this whole thread. holy shit learn to read. every single benchmark aside from maybe 1 or 2 is trying to convince people to buy a 2600 over a 8400 not a 2600x. from the way you speak you sound like you're extremely socially detached and have terrible people skills. don't @ me again

I hate this site. None of their graphs make any sense to me. They're horrible graphs.

>is reviewers tend to get golden samples
I think Intel sends out binned chips with reviewers, but last I heard AMD was sending out retail boxes for Ryzen. Either way both chipsets are old enough where we know the average OC one should expect. Worrying about golden samples is only an issue at release.

Assassin's Creed is 24% on 1060
Dirt 4 is 20% faster on 580

Let's say I have 1080p 75hz monitor and a 2k 144hz one, would a 1080 be enough or should I go with the ti to be future proof as well?

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24% faster*

relevant and popular games such as fortnite, gta and pubg are faster on the 1060
other games that no one really cares about such as kingdom come deliverance and wreckfest are faster on the 580

>gta 5 is one of the most single core heavy games and even a g4560 could run it at over 60 fps

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Oh dear... God speed
So what is the average OC for the 2600 then?
There is one review with 4.2 and another with 4.1. I really believe those are golden and I can't see any decent listings online. Silicon lottery hasn't released their stats yet either

youtube.com/watch?v=H-aP0JqJkJ0

>There is one review with 4.2 and another with 4.1.
I've seen 4.0 to 4.2 so there's your gap. I guess if you wanted an average I'd say 4.1. 2600 OC is basically a slightly weaker 2600x which OCs to slightly above what the 2600 does.

Depends on mobo. You need atleast x470 or an expensive b350 (something like f strix). You could go with cheaper ~$80 b350 but you are not guaranteed to reach max oc

>>There is one review with 4.2 and another with 4.1.
>I've seen 4.0 to 4.2 so there's your gap.
I think its safe to say majority of people will only get a 4.0 as 3.9 is the guaranteed boost clock.
Yes I'm saying 4ghz
The difference will be in the expensive ram

This is what I expected to hear but all the shills are too busy trying to protect an OC CPU and ram(more expensive mobo and ram) vs stock ram and CPU

>b-die ram
care to elaborate? what exactly will be shit if i don't go b-die?

you won't be guaranteed a good overclock to match the 2600 like the ones in the benchmarks posted. b-die is $150-200+ for 16gb 3000/3200mhz

ram overclock*

Nothing, he's just shilling. You'd get more performance overclocking lower latency RAM (still doable on a CL16 kit but less)

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Please link any of these b die kits for 16GB that are $150. I was looking for almost a month for ram and the cheapest I found was 180+ for 3000. Just genuinely curious who's selling this 'cheap' bdie ram.
Depends on what your use case is. For gaming? Not a big difference if the ram is on the qvl/can hit the rated speeds. B die is just more likely to OC correctly without being on the QvL.

>what exactly will be shit if i don't go b-die?
Your perfomance. As I'm seeing you won't be doing extreme if any overclocking so I don't know why you are going with 2600x in the first place. Though at the price you are saying it may be okay to just buy it. And don't listen to this guy perf difference between b-die and cl16 is like 10-15% for ryzen

pretty much don't buy ryzen without low latency rams

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This is what I expected to hear but all the shills are too busy trying to protect an OC CPU and ram(more expensive mobo and ram) vs stock ram and CPU
>36 games tested x 3
Imagine if your job was sitting around autistically recording fps for weeks on end?

>Please link any of these b die kits for 16GB that are $150.
i don't know any i was just saying what i've seen from reviews. they say it's $150-200+

What makes b-die so special?

reminder to anyone buying ryzen.

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Why doesn't this test show the cas latency?
I'd like to know.
Also why do a bench or show one if all the detail/info isn't even provided bruv?

You are guaranteed to oc it higher thus get big performance boost. It's the only way to reach intel's perfomance pretty much.

I was planning to buy a CL16 3200MHz kit for about 160€ which already seems stupidly expensive, I'm not sure if I want to spend 200€+ on my RAM. Does B-Die matter at all if I'm not gonna OC much?

>reminder to anyone buying ryzen.
The 2800x will be better than 2700 for sure though. Since and is making sure they can at least compete with the 8700k.
Though it's already diminishing returns on the 2700x so your probably right.
I'm asking for more of a technical answer not just because it's got a bigger dick. No offense

It's just a die used in some kits with lower latency, overclocks more than a non B-Die one

>I was planning to buy a CL16 3200MHz kit for about 160€ which already seems stupidly expensive
It is compared to previous years' prices, but that's the norm at this point.

I think it's that it just so happens that there's more benchmarks out there comparing the 2600 and 8400, for some reason.
Yeah, they're more similar in price, but the 2600X price is still much closer in price to a 8400 than it is to the 8600k+cooler+board.

Yeah, HWU are retarded in many ways. Those graphs don't label which is which, and you just have to tell by knowing which games are Nvidia favored and which are AMD favored.

You can't use mismatched frequency monitors with Nvidia cards. It will stutter even in desktop use. It's been a well known issue for Nvidia for years and they seem to have no plans of fixing it as it must be an architecture problem and unfixable in the driver.

>Why doesn't this test show the cas latency?
It's implied.
Probably CL16 for the non-LL and CL14 for the LL.

Just better manufacturing process and binning.

Non B-die is going to be fine for 60fps. It's just if you want to get the absolute most out of it, and also have the best RAM for your future upgrade, B-die actually gives good performance for the money.

I'm this guyWhat's lowest latency for 3200 and 3400?
You know why that graph is so shit?

It would be fine but I'd get this one
de.pcpartpicker.com/product/V78H99/gskill-memory-f43000c14d16gtz

I can get a 1080ti for 700 euros
is it smart to get it or should i just wait for the next series

I have a 1070