Google Fuchsia

I can't. Originally I was excited about Fuchsia, but the more I read and see about it, the more I dislike it. Sadly I don't see people abandoning Google's ship on the long run so we might as well bend over, because Fuchsia is going to stay

>has zero redeeming features
Why do you think so?

No copyleft
Java free
Consistent microkernel
Desktop/mobile integration

Not to mention the privacy and security wins even if the they partially sabotage the architecture.

They probably make so much profits that they don't know what to do with it so investing in experimental projects and other businesses have been their thing. I do hope though that Fuchsia does come in fruition because I'm already developing a large app with Dart/Flutter.

One thing, "prove me wrong" fuckwit: the license.

The Linux kernel is licensed under the GPL. If you make changes to it and publish the resulting binary, you must provide the source.
Fuchsia is under a permissive license, meaning device vendors are free to implement whatever proprietary extras, tunings, drivers, anything in that kernel and never morally or legally required to release the source code for it.
If Fuchsia becomes a thing, say goodbye to custom ROMs, pajeet kernels etc.

>Desktop/mobile integration
Being this delusional. I hope you use electron for everything.

>device vendors are free to implement whatever proprietary extras
This is the same with linux too thanks to the modules. Their hacks usually the most retarded part of the kernel tree and large source of CVEs.

>say goodbye to custom ROMs
We'll see.

also say goodbye to major tech companies releasing source to their drivers and having any support past the initial version compiled against a kernel that is already 5 years out of date

>We'll see.
Fuchsia is a meme project for google developers. We will see jackshit except if you port that crap on your phone.

Why this thing have so much media coverage? Literally who cares.

/thread

They're doing just that. Developing an OS, selling Hardware, providing utility services and being heavily involved in cloud business.
I think they know the whole ad thing is about to go bottom's-up.

these topics have nothing to do with kernel level development, what is the point here?

>No copyleft
that's because they can keep what they want proprietary
>Java free
no, they use kotlin
>Consistent microkernel
inconsistent new kernel thrown into millions of beta testers.
>Desktop/mobile integration
sure, whatever you say.

>Not to mention the privacy and security wins even if the they partially sabotage the architecture.
What?
>The ad team prevailed, this person said.

Does that really matter when they can just compile their modules seperately from the tree? The GPL already failed.

>The ad team prevailed
I wonder where those microkernel shills repeating "fuchsia will save everything forever" are now.

Yes it does matter, and simultaneously shows how clueless you are about Linux development.
Linux devs go to great lengths to make internal interfaces change between versions. That means everyone who wants a proprietary kernel module has to actively maintain it for every kernel version they support. Usually, it ends up sucking pretty badly.
And that's the whole point as far as Linus is concerned: to put pressure on companies to release the source and make it easier on themselves.

At this point i'm now hoping for a future fork/custom version. Like the Lineage OS of Fuchsias.

Phone vendors very rarely open source their modules and they just abandon them instead. If Linus actively changes up APIs to do this he is a moron.

if it doesn't run linux, I'm not touching it

I could see it succeeding in taking control back from the carriers. iOS forces carriers on their knees when it comes to updating/device control. Android lets them put whatever memes they want on the phone.

>Phone vendors very rarely open source their modules and they just abandon them instead.
Smartphone ecosystem is pure cancer. There's nothing to salvage there.

>If Linus actively changes up APIs to do this he is a moron.
It's just a secondary benefit. The main reason is to prevent people from depending on internal interfaces because then there would be pressure to keep backwards compatibility.

>proprietary kernel licensed under terms that are beneficial to google (which even a freetard like me can see as better than the mess known as Linux on ARM)
>an ability to enforce how it's used further than what they could do with android
>possibly kernel-level surveillance from google if they want it
>possibility to create an apple-tier walled garden ecosystem
I wonder if google will be even able to sustain itself for however long it will take for Fuschia to take off.

>calls carriers
>we're not supporting android anymore. get on fuschia or else

Done and done.

>proprietary kernel
umm no, sweetie.
fuchsia.googlesource.com/zircon/

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retard

It's worse. It's dead before it even arrived, the ticket hasn't even been booked yet. If only Stallman is useful, he'd have made his own mobile OS but he and his stupid philosophies aren't helping us. Not even one bit. Guy is a fucking meme, no one idolises him unironically. Fucking hell.

Cool. So, what is this for?
>The ad team prevailed, this person said

>If only Stallman is useful, he'd have made his own mobile OS but he and his stupid philosophies aren't helping us. Not even one bit. Guy is a fucking meme, no one idolises him unironically. Fucking hell.
What more do you want him to do? How do you demand he has anything else to prove to anyone? Smartphones and phones are inherently compromised because of carriers and triangulation, the best we can hope for is some implementation/variation of Librem 5. Given that it actually succeeds and not for just the initial release.

he's retarded everyone point at him and laugh

theres nothing stopping google from having kernel level surveillance in android

>no counterargument
wew

Why did you quote ? I didn't call you a retard. You're also not explaining how and why an open source project still relies on advertising teams for business model decisions. But yeah, this internal alpha Google project will save mobile computing as we know it.

Theyre building fuschia as controlled opposition. Yes fuschia will obstentially have provacy protections, but in order to obtain it you will need to divulge enough information about yourself that google will link your fuschia machines unique id to your previous accounts and they wont matter. Meanwhile fuschia will stop any other privacy oriented operating systems to grow.

>no, they use kotlin
Ya dense, user? was clearly talking about the JVM, not languages.

Well, there is. Manufacturers get the kernel up and running, and they get to decide what's in there. Google would get massive backlash for getting manufacturers to add spyware to the kernel, because it's Linux. That won't be the case with Fuschia, where they are like Apple and they can get with pretty much anything.

why would it be ad hostile?

that would require actual research though.

most journo fucks are probably getting premade work by lobbyists and advertisers and write from those.

>no, they use kotlin
Nope. C, C++, Go, Rust, and Dart/Flutter

More and more products are getting ad blocking built in: iOS (well, it's an API), Brave, even Chrome itself (blog.google/products/chrome/browser-web-worth-protecting/). Companies are trying to disrupt the ad business.

capabilities. that's about all it offers. Linux still strongly lacks that feature and it makes it hard to build secure services on linux without them. best you have in linux is basically a parent with that pass down fd's on fork.

>Phone vendors very rarely open source their modules

and that's a problem. providing "backwards compat" kernel internal ABI is not the fucking solution. phone faggot shit like shit should be made illegal.

Yeah we really need an os without static typing

Its name implies it is a gender-diverse OS made by SJWs.
The main programming language will be the gaymost language in existance, JS, or some derivative like dart. By eliminating difficult programming problems like concurrency, the new OS will eliminate the intellectual barriers that opress collectives from certain races or genders.

google is not apple, and the carriers have them by the balls

god Jow Forums is retarded

>providing "backwards compat" kernel internal ABI is not the fucking solution
That's what microsoft does

>owns the copyright
>permissive license
>not GPL

>Google’s ads business relies on an ability to target users based on their location and activity, and Fuchsia’s nascent privacy features would, if implemented, hamstring this important business.

OY VEY GOY WE ARE LIMITING OURSELVES THATS HOW TRUSTFUL WE ARE!!
HURRY HURRY NOW BUY INTO OUR EMERGING PLATFORM ITS SAFE AND SECURE FROM OUR OTHER PLATFORM I PROMISE!!!!

>2 years down the line they close down the sourcecode and you will never be able to verify the coin miners and meta-data exfiltration.

Look what they get away with using a GPL already which limits a lot of fuckery.
Look what sony can do with a permissive license.

Alphabet is a advertising agency now.
Google search collects data, Gmail collects data, Youtube collects data, and all are free services.
They also sell advertisements via adsense.
>geee I wonder how they make their revenue to host billions of terabyes for youtube alone :^)

Prepare for kikery of the highest regard.

years down the line they close down the sourcecode and you will never be able to verify the coin miners and meta-data exfiltration.
Doubt since google is trying to present themselves as a good guy

only some of Jow Forums is retarded. like you.

the posts you quoted are fucking spot on.

t. android googledrone

and microshit now suffers extreme technical debt in almost every aspect of development so bad that even the Azure business unit has basically made numerous custom kernels for their backend. I think only recently did they start to unify all the garbage under one common NT kernel source,

and water is wet

Research? The information is there in the article, just not as prominent as could be.

why? because I'm right? enjoy having to very carefully clean room kernel abi changes for you nonfree shitware kmod because if you build using the linux kernel sources you are literally violating the GPLv2.

oh wait, that's the real reason you want fuchsia, so your nonfree shitware corp can just shit out updates with some simple make invocation on the latest upstream from shitty google.

>shit should be made illegal
Every time.

in the real world phones exist and drivers are closed source, holding back security updates only hurts the user.
thankfully though, the linux maintainers have already made an agreement with google to support LTS kernels for longer than they used to.

>Its name implies it is a gender-diverse OS made by SJWs.
The name is a reference to Project Pink (Taligent) and Project Purple (iPhone) and a taunt at Apple.
What the fuck are you talking about?

>in the real world phones exist and drivers are closed source, holding back security updates only hurts the user.

in the real world using kernel sources directly is a GPL violation. sorry kiddo.

It doesn't matter what they intended the name to mean. In real life where most of us have to live, everything is either for or against the SJW agenda

You know it's going to be in some non static typed language and most likely no brackets so it'll be a security nightmare to begin with

>everything is either for or against

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t. Retard

>holding back security updates only hurts the user
Oh right, because it's totally Linux's fault for not actively supporting 3rd party proprietary kernel modules that someone else wrote.
Fucking corporation apologists shitting up my Jow Forums.

any actual arguments, or are they just not paying you enough?
google must be really strapped for cash these days

alright, let's all get on the same page here. here is the situation with your average lagdroid device:

1) the kernel is GPL
2) the drivers are GPL and are shipped on the device-specific kernel branch
3) most of the actual driver functionality is in A CLOSED USERLAND BLOB
4) the blobs are buggy as shit and run as root
5) the blobs never get patched for vulnerabilities
6) the blobs are compiled against a specific kernel version and upgrading the kernel under the blob will break it because there is no kernel ABI

so DE FACTO we already have the same situation as with Fuckseeyah

with a microkernel, the drivers themselves already start out in userland and will be closed because of the "permissive" license.

HOWEVER, the API is stable and everything can be patched and updated independently.

so, ideologically, it's a step backwards. it justifies and validates the incompetent OEM govnokod. from a security standpoint it's a win.

google is doing this because the carriers and the OEMs have u...them by the balls.

google is not strapped for cash, that is one thing i can assure you of.

>Not to mention the privacy and security wins even if the they partially sabotage the architecture.
>implying Google would ever ship anything not designed to undermine your privacy

>You know it's going
It's on GitHub. You nigger need to do research before you talk out of your ass.

based google fixing the linux kernel mess

just fuck off kiddo. I don't care how corp fags make nonfree shitware drivers in 2018. literally what kernel maintainer upstreams broken garbage that depends on code running in userspace? this sounds fake and gay.

solid post. Thanks user

66826377
haha he posted it again

read my post you fucking idiot. we literally agree, even though i work for google.

i take it back, Jow Forums is retarded.

If they continued with dart as main language, that would be statically typed and C-like syntax (dart 1 was dynamically typed, but dart 2 is now static)
But I doubt they would do this, because dart is dead, and they would't be able to target the millions of retarded JavaScript devs out there.
They will switch to JS in the last moment.
Also the GUI has to be constructed in code, that is also weird to most web devs.

>from a security standpoint it's a win.
As opposed to what exactly?
Android, which now has a driver abstraction layer too?
Fucksia has only one purpose: a permissively licensed kernel that's under Google's control. It's nothing else than a blatant power grab.

>I work for Google

I did read your post as well and it sounds incredibly fake and gay. Let's see the proof that there are Foss upstream, or even out of tree, kernel modules which use userspace binaries to control hardware. That sounds like a major security and reliability nightmare.

>code running in userspace? this sounds fake and gay.
wow you're actually retarded

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>The ad team prevailed
RIP

Linux isn't a microkernel dipshit

yes, but Fuchsia is.

That's the problem with Google.
They have all the resources to do great things, but there's always some fucking bean counter/suit that fucks it up. See the tragedy of Google Talk.
The only reason I'm not worried about Google taking over the world is their idiotic management.

there is only one microkernel that was used heavily and that is the one in SMM inside intel chips everywhere else it failed hard

This is just marketing bullshit. Obviously it will be the perfect tracking OS only the NSA and the people they work with could love.

Can you give an example of other microkernels?

>what is QNX

stop drinking Tannenbaum's kool aid
only Skylake and later ship with Minix embedded, so not that many
on the other hand, L4 and QNX are used in a lot of network and embedded equipment
sometimes I wish Jow Forums wasn't full of NEET ricers that don't know shit about technology

>The ad team prevailed over the engineers

This is the absolute state of capitalism

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nice b8, but clapistan isn't a capitalist country
it's corporate fascism with government-mandated oligopolies, subsidies, and tariffs

> if ... Linus is a moron
> if