UBI

i'll set up the wiki

As far as I understand people will register, all will pay into a single pot and then it will all be redistributed among the members? How do you know people won't just claim they don't have any money and just leech off the others?

Im a software developer with 15 years of experience. Do you need help developing this and are you willing to pay for it?

Most of the "utility" from the app will not come from solely from the money in the pot. I can't imagine it scaling much beyond a couple dollars a week. However that is enough to use it for what is really cool, Micro Loans.

Right now, I don't have the money to pay you.

You're doing it wrong retard, just start an ICO or one of those exitscam.me games if you wanna steal people's money

So
Kind of like a ponzi scheme

I was apart of a company that did btc micro loans. If someone runs on the loan youll never see the money again. Arbitration's your only option at that point and it doesnt change anything. The company eventually flopped. My two cents is stay the fuck away from it.

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Thanks, but I don't want to steal anything.

Which is why you need the UBI, the UBI will act as collateral in case a loan is defaulted. If someone fails to pay back their loan then the money that they would have gotten through UBI would go to paying off the loan.

I don't think you know what that is.

>Isn't stealing if the retards willingly give you the money in the first place
Understandable, have a good day

>contribute money
>receive less money than contributed

so your target audience consists solely of the mentally handicapped

Get some UBI money..

UBI will only work in a civilized first world country that's been almost fully automated. Good luck in the US...

Uh yeah
>we take all the money and redistribute it back to everyone involved in the scheme
So is this a donation where you just blow away money or is it implied that get >= your contributions back? Hate to break it to you but it’s a ponzi in the latter and can be loosely considered one in the former too.
You’re just moving this shit around, there’s no value production taking place.

> Coming to Jow Forums for help without money
Congrats user you played yourself.

I have multiple target audiences. If your goal is earn a living primarily through UBI. This project isn't for you. However in parts of the world where access to cheap capital is not available and some people have bottomed out at 0. This could be useful for them. Also, peer to peer Micro Loans with interest and zero risk because they are backed by a UBI, is profitable.

I didn't come for help, I came to ask if anyone was interested. I'm fine building it on my own.

Yeah, I can't tell if you aren't reading, or what?

>He doesn't know about decentralized loans using blockchain technology are already a thing
You're one year late for pulling out your scam OP

I do know they are already a thing, you obviously still miss the point of what I'm building.

>peer to peer Micro Loans with interest and zero risk because they are backed by a UBI

but you still require several wealthy, sub-80 IQ users to back the UBI

A successful UBI requires tax collection.

No you don't. Lol. I don't know if it's socialist brainwashing, but people do charitable acts, and remittances are a big market. What I dislike is when money is sent to Sierra Leone, and Government Bureaucrats waste it all away while none of the people see any of the benefits.

I'd love to have that debate with you.
What defines a UBI as successful?
Why is taxation necessary for it to be successful?

>charity and remittance
I.e. wealthy sub-80 IQ brainlets. You’re taking their money and moving it somewhere else. There is no semblence of sustainability in that model.

I don't think you are using the word sustainable correctly. It's like asking is a Patreon model sustainable?

The question doesn't make sense. The model is designed to scale with users, and donations.

If you want infinite money go talk to the fed.

So you’re just expecting it to collapse someday when you run out of contributors. Got it. UBI is surely the way of the future

sounds nice, ping me at rizon; derk0pf.
could do 1-2 days per workweek. at 02:00 pm

>why is money required to give people money?
the ultimate state of politics rn

You start with "voluntary UBI" but a few posts below suddenly wild "Micro Loans" appears.
Could you please pitch the idea of your project in one or two paragraphs? Plus a few examples

Everything can collapse. Your nihilism isn't the way of the future. It will be a subscription model. If no one likes the idea then good on them. All I can do is create incentives for the product.

Don't equate money, and taxation. That is a lazy argument. Money is import for Money. That is why the idea of UBI has been around for as long as it has. You just don't think having the government force people do it won't it less moral.
.

>don't equate money and taxation
I didn't you brainlet. The guy wanted to know why taxation is necessary for UBI to be successful. Where are you going to get the income so everybody has universal access to a basic level?
>money is import for money
phucking phoneposters

>All I can do is create incentives for the product

but you have none

I wanted to know why taxation is necessary...
He just the made the assertion as if it were fact.

Define your terms what do you mean by Universal, and Basic?

This model that I'm testing will take subscriptions from whomever wants, and distribute them to the user base.

I don't imagine it scaling beyond a couple dollars a week if that.

So it will be universal, as in anyone can receive it.

The question of "Basic" is tricky, but again I don't imagine it scaling beyond a couple dollars, and for this I will consider that a success since absolute poverty is a less than 2$ a day.

I don't think you know what an incentive is.

>lolwut
Universal means universal.
Basic means basic.
Taxation is necessary because you have to get the money from somewhere. Voluntary contributions will not work, see "tragedy of the commons". A few very rich people ponying up the cash won't work, see "How to Buy Votes and Acquire Vast Power, Vol. I". Spinning free gold out of memecoins is so stupid only Jow Forums would think it was a good idea.

If your goal is simply to provide global poverty level income, good luck with that, there are 7 billion people on the planet. The people who can pay won't because it's chump change they can literally find in their couch cushions, and the people who need it can't access it. The few that can will drain your coffers in milliseconds.

UBI can work within a well-established, stable industrial society with high trust. It will work nowhere else, which you would understand if you weren't dumb beyond all comprehension.

>you dont know what that is lol
All fucking thread
Just what is the incentive for me to give you money so you can hand it off to someone else? And I get nothing back at all but a big thanks and come again?
>well tax breaks
I thought you told us tax wasn’t necessary for UBI
>good feels in your heart
Hardly an incentive for me to give up my income I worked for so someone else can get one for nothing.

Cool. Hopefully you don't run off.
1. I asked you to define your terms, so we could identity the goal, and task of UBI, and how feasible it would be to accomplish. Aka, provide scope. Instead you just gave a circular definition.

2. Saying that "Taxation is neccessary because you have to get it from somewhere, and Voluntary contributions will not work" is a tautology. It's cool, if you want to believe that, but it's hard to see someone taking that as a realistic position, unless they are hard core believer in totalitarianism.

3. Tragedy of commons doesn't apply. Tragedy of commons applies when their is a common resource that people can continually use up. Meaning that the people using the resource are affecting it's supply. In a UBI funded by subscriptions, the supply is never affected by the people receiving. The pot is emptied at the end of the week, and then collections start from thence.

4. "A few very rich people ponying up the cash won't work, Spinning free gold out of memecoins is so stupid only Jow Forums would think it was a good idea." I'm not creating a crypto-coin, and honestly, I don't think you understand how scaling works. The money collected will be elastic, it depends on each given week. If the money is too little then too bad. if it is a lot then good. It shouldn't be that hard to understand.
5. "If your goal is simply to provide global poverty level income, good luck with that, there are 7 billion people on the planet. The people who can pay won't because it's chump change they can literally find in their couch cushions, and the people who need it can't access it. The few that can will drain your coffers in milliseconds." This isn't a payment, and your post is contradictory, but again the numerous charities that use subscription models do exist, along with the patreons, non-profits. I think you are misguided in generalizations.
6. "UBI can work within a well-established, stable industrial society with high trust. It will work nowhere else, which you would understand if you weren't dumb beyond all comprehension.", Cognitive Dissonance, and Ad Hominem. Thanks.

You don't have to give up anything. You aren't my target, your hubris is thinking that everyone thinks the way you do, and has the same exact incentives.

Wealth is compounding. When people bottom out at 0, they aren't productive, and because of that the potential fruits of their labor that you could be a beneficiary of is gone.

I'm not trying to guilt you. Please don't try and patronize me. If you have legitimate questions, than ask, but you aren't doing that.

Sounds like you've got it all figured out. Can't believe you haven't been tapped to run the world economy yet, with your 100-level logic and philosophy knowledge.

What you're describing is, basically, a petty cash drawer in your standard office environment. Only thing you've changed is to take away the lock on the petty cash drawer, and you expect people to just put money in when they feel like it. This will end exactly as I expect, and you will be confused when it doesn't work at all like you expect. That's why you're dumb.

I can deal with arguments. I can deal with being wrong. Emotional epithets and ad hominem, from someone claiming that I'm an idiot is meh.

I thought we were supposed to be autists, who let this feeler in here.

This doesn't sound like UBI now, just like a charity. Why should I not just donate to a well established charity?

I'm not going to handhold you through two thousand years of economic history so you figure out that your idea of "why can't we all just share with each other?" is neither a) novel nor b) practical. If you weren't 14 years old and retarded it might be educational because you're almost endearingly naive, but the amount of time I have for tard wrangling is limited and you didn't make the cut for the queue.

That is an interesting question. It's your money, I am supposed to get you to believe that your donation is better with this cause than that one. I mentioned earlier about how I don't like how money often goes to an overseas government bureaucrat and the people rarely see any improvement before the money is wasted.

Also there have been some experiments that show that direct cash deposits might be better than earmarking what people do through ngos or charities for specific goods.

If you believe the charity is better than the UBI, by all means, just want more competition in the space.

I want to see more people able to use capitalism to rise out of poverty, and at a faster rate. I think a project like this one could be cool for that.

I never said "We should all just share with each other",

If you aren't going to deal with the actual arguments why even post. Then again you probably think Thomas Paine was an idiot.

>I never said "We should all just share with each other"
>This model that I'm testing will take subscriptions from whomever wants, and distribute them to the user base.
That is exactly what you said you fucking mong, only you're going to put it behind a memecoin API with memethon and memescript. Jesus fucking Christ.

Just to let you know OP that no matter what name you put on your project it could result in 20 years in jail.

If you can't understand the difference between the 2 things you quoted, I can't help you.

The first is a silly political statement. That requires force to implement, if you hold it as your moral compass.

The second is tool for people to voluntarily create a safety net.

Why? lol.

???

I already said it sounds like you have it all figured out. Good luck, champ.
>what is patreon

Yup a feeler.

I hope proper UBI is implemented soon.
You don't have freedom if you're forced to wageslave just to eat.

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So someone else has to wageslave for you?

They wouldn't be slaving.
Employers wouldn't be able to force everyones hands anymore, and would have to provide real incentives for people to work.
Making dolla dolla from farming would be a good example, UBI shouldn't be massive, but you should survive on it.

Can ya'll take that to another thread. It is off topic and not productive.

Is there any monetary incentive for me to help you? Are you planning to earn money from this?

There are 2 different models I have for making money from this. I don't plan to disclose that, but if you are genuinely interested in the project, give me a way to contact you.

>UBI
just because some of us use linux doesn't mean we support your commie rubbish

Can you shut the fuck up?

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I will steal your idea and scam stupid do-gooders.

Go through with it. You are a retarded asshole and I want to watch you fail.

No one is going to want to pay for someone else not paying back loans and for people that want free money. That's not philanthropic, that's just stupid. People with money aren't retards like you. Also the fact you are unwilling to disclose the 2 models you have of making money from this screams scam. There is no incentive for other people to put money in from this.

If people are being payed back through the pot of donated UBI, if the pot runs out, you can't pay back the loans, not paying back the loans means people won't loan and if the pot goes to bailing out lenders, people aren't going to donate any money.

Lol. Talking about a voluntary project, and being called a commie. I think you missed the point. Socialists and Communists are actively trying to push a UBI agenda that will be funded by the government. I am exploring a different option, because if they are the ones who succeed, we are going to be talking about decades of not being able to do anything about. I'm more your ally then you even realize.

I doubt it. I've tried before. Didn't seem to work.

If your plan for a product is do wrong by customers, you are already at a loss, but if you do end up stealing the idea, and make it work, can you open source the data you collect. Thanks.

Their will be disincentives for not paying back the micro-loans. The micro loans will be peer to peer, and will at an amount that can be payed off in a reasonable amount of time if defaulted by the UBI.

We are talking about a 2$ a week UBI, with a 10$ peer to peer microloan, if it defaults it will be payed off in 5 weeks. The person who issues the loan will get his interest, and the person who defaulted has a penalty on how much money they can receive in a future peer to peer loan.

>if the pot runs out, you can't pay back the loans

The pot empties at the end of the week, I don't think you understand the model. Reread the thread.

> unwilling to disclose the 2 models
They are tangentially related to this project, and are good business models even without this, I don't need validation for those, I've spoken to investors already about 1 them. It does need more work, but I'm not too worried about it. Thanks for your concern though.

How else can I pay for my MtF transition?

Lol. This isn't me.
I'm gay.

>"free" money in exchange for your freedom
Good useless eater. Good Goiyim.

Ok ignore him and the other poster I've *already* transitioned.

Give me free money, I will redistribute your wealth and profit from it. Deal?

Why don't you buzz off, pal? Just because you don't have any ambitions or goals in life doesn't mean you could shit on mines