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Is self driving car inherently unsafe?
Adam Nelson
Lucas Ross
*deliberately interferes with the car causing it to crash*
wow dude this is really unsafe
Levi Peterson
i don't want to be in one for at least a decade after they come out.
once i heard Tesla was authorizing remote access to the throttle and brakes...
jesus christ these people are retarded.
at least I look forward to laughing at all the retarded things that happen
Brandon Ward
>apparently
Civilian GPS accuracy is like 10 metres. I'm surprised there's anyone dumb enough to think cars use that to navigate.
Thomas Russell
>10 metres
Try 3-4 m8
t. Knower
Michael Long
HackRF One for 175 bucks!?
WHERE!?
Nicholas Davis
Yea, people were predicting this shit while self driving cars were still just conceptual. It won't stop their development of distribution though - just like regular cars are inherently unsafe, we simply carry on and hope we're not the one that gets fucked.
Ethan Howard
Yeah because they definitely rely on only one sensor? Also what is a Kalman Filter?
Ryder Anderson
someone tldr me on what a HackRF One is
Jordan Nguyen
Which is about the width of two lanes. Imagine having a navigation system that has no idea which lane you're in.
The GPS is just used to tell what street you're going down, and what corners to take. The positioning of the vehicle is done via optical sensors.
Oliver Baker
Radio stuff
Jordan Sanders
High IQ (>150) post
Benjamin Moore
that thing can't crash me user
Daniel Howard
>HackRFOne
>Spoofing gps signal
wouldnt that just fuck up the map? but not the infrared sensors?
is this another ploy to up the dwindling sales of raspberrysòy pi?
Juan Stewart
>wouldnt that just fuck up the map?
Yes
Inn case you haven't noticed, "journalism" in general has kind of gone to shit.
William Hughes
If we go that route then we should be seeing tesla cars getting fucked inside long tunnels?
Sebastian Rodriguez
>purposefully causing a crash
What is wrong with you?
Bentley Stewart
I'm sure that car would be able to safely stop if it detected a problem
>Hey, my GPS signal no longer matches the map
>Better stop to be safe
Hudson Turner
No.
For starters, autonomous cars don't solely rely on GPS for their navigation. They have cameras as well which look at things like lane markers, traffic and obstacles.
Landon Ramirez
everyone should just behave themselves 100% of the time why do we even need police
Benjamin Cruz
Forget that, even in built up cities GPS has a hard time being accurate.
Cars would be crashing all the time in Manhattan.
Christopher Powell
>self driving cars use GPS to stay in a lane
yeah no. Is this raspberry pi cucks trying to be cool again
Mason Sanders
What if I told you you could cause car accidents for free just by pretending to jump out onto a busy road?
Samuel Myers
That's not the point, brainlet. Accept that you were wrong and move on with your life.
Anthony Gutierrez
I am pretty sure human drivers will also drive ofcourse when you throw a big bomb looking rpi with antennas on their roof.
Jason Jackson
Your point?
Kayden Campbell
this is a research paper in 2018
Jeremiah Ortiz
Human driven cares are inherently unsafe. What's your point OP?
Blake Lee
>2018
>relying on american GPS
Carson Nelson
Not unless all forms of manual driving are eliminated. Then you could create a complex network of autonomous vehicles that are capable of communicating effectively with one another and reduce collisions down to near-zero, as well as get rid of traffic.
Really, the only thing wrong with the process of driving is humans.
Nathaniel Scott
>this kills the self driving car
Lincoln Clark
who the hell still uses GPS lol
Landon Mitchell
>if you make street signs harder to see, there are going to be accidents
woah
so we just have to let the tech mature a little bit?
Justin Collins
yeah until they're all self driving and it's just a tiny beacon in the ground emitting a stop signal.
cars already can read traffic light signals and know how long before they change
Connor Lewis
Do human drivers even read stop sign?
Andrew Clark
Surely snow could have the same effect, like it sticks to the front of unheated traffic lights.
Josiah Campbell
>Self driving cars using GPS data directly instead of a AHRS like on any half decent airplane
worrying.
Jonathan Wilson
They're more accurate than to 10 metres. That is all.
Brayden Sanchez
We need to ban Raspberry Pis to protect ourselves from hackers
Justin Lee
SSL encrypted broadcasting towers at every corner and junction.
Thank me later.
Hunter Wright
>$225 to build
>has to be in or underneath vehicle
>drone possible but flight time
>Randomly selecting 600 real-world taxi trips in Manhattan and Boston, the researchers were able to divert, on average, 40 percent of them 1,600 feet. They were able to send 85 percent of New York taxis and 98 percent of Boston taxis into time-delaying loops.
>researchers themselves say in their paper that just having the car read street signs and match it up is enough to beat it
Liam Watson
115 off ali
Lucas Garcia
>*deliberately interferes with the car causing it to crash*
>gets caught in 99% of cases and prosecuted
hmm that looks like safe
>*deliberately interferes with the car causing it to crash*
>get away with it because radio monitoring cannot detect a wearable low power emitter retroactively
wow dude this is really unsafe
Asher Hall
Anyone that is okay with the botnet had it coming.
Oliver Jackson
>Is self driving car inherently unsafe?
No. The only problem we have with self driving cars is that humans still can interact with them. Humans to nothing but causing problems.
I am not even kidding. Even Audi, etc say this.
There was a presentation at my uni and they said a few times that the human and the law is the only problem holding us back.
Autonomus driving is possible since yesterday
Asher Cox
But, my friend, if we kill all humans why should cars even have to exists?
Also ofc car captcha
Tyler Brooks
Well they can sit in them. We just have to take away the steering capabilities.
It is already done that way on some airplanes. I can't remember which airline it was, but on some airline the pilots have no control
Jordan Roberts
>Civilian GPS accuracy is like 10 metres.
>GPS
Civilian Galileo accuracy is 1 meter.
Commercial Galileo accuracy is 1 centimeter.
Hunter Barnes
theres like 10 gps satellites pointed in my third world country
i imagine theres 20+ in muttland. so theres no question of accuracy
Blake Williams
That's why you can use a combination of GPS, Galileo, BeiDou and GLONASS
Most modern personal surveillance devices ("smart phones") support at least 3 of the 4
Americans are not allowed to use Galileo because the Land of the Free™ government has not "authorized" the reception of its signals
Connor Wright
>ridding a "self-driving" car in the same roads of non-self-driving cars
L M A O
Christopher Green
Humans will always be retards. There is literally no way to develop a program that can account for all of the possible retarded things a human could do at any given moment on or near a road.
Elijah Sanders
even in it's current experimental state it's already safer than human driven cars
Adrian Cruz
>has to be in or underneath vehicle
Or just on the side of the road. You just have to emit a signal with higher intensity than the satellites at the car's receiver. Feed your signal into an amplifier and a decent antenna and that's a piece of cake, you could probably get 100m. Course the FCC would likely notice your antics in no time at all.
Dylan Hill
I thought the cars registered stop signs from like, a map in its database and just knew when to stop cuz the map says there's a stop sign there.
Wyatt Ward
Do you ever drive in Taxi/Uber/Bus?
It's basically the same principle with self-driving cars. You give your trust to a driver you do not know, but believe to be trained to do the job correctly.
All it takes now is for autopilots to be safer than taxi/uber/bus drivers, which i wouldn't expect to be a difficult task atm.
Nicholas Perez
Nothing you said was wrong, but you're autistic and I just wanted to make sure you knew.
Liam Scott
Dual frequency L1/L5 GPS is easily capable of sub meter accuracy while moving
>L5 signal is in an international aviation frequency band and designated safety-of-life
Feds will royally asspound you if you try jamming that.
Isaac Walker
>Nothing you said was wrong, but you're autistic and I just wanted to make sure you knew.
I've undergone psychological evaluation twice and they did not diagnose autism.
Jordan Thompson
Why did you go through that, out of curiosity?
Christian James
>no training data for when a woman crosses suddenly into your lane
>car continues to drive like nothing happened
youtube.com
Adam Wright
The problem is that they turned off the emergency features in the first place.
Jordan Williams
turned off safety features in a self-driving car??
Id really like to see proofs
Caleb Thomas
Draft evasion
James Kelly
>Is self driving car inherently unsafe?
You could do this with any modern car
Connor Nelson
wow so you tricked a car for 100m?
if you make it do drastic changes the driver knows so no uturns and even then it just recovers
Dylan Reyes
phones don't have the same accuracy as other gps devices
theverge.com
new chips coming sometime but not all the satellites use them
Matthew Adams
Except the car would not drive itself into the fake GPS coordinates
Jacob White
Bullshit
Brandon Kelly
They don't just use GPS? They use an array of sensors. An issue with GPS will not sent it across lines/lanes into oncoming traffic.
Christopher Robinson
ntsb.gov
>According to Uber emergency braking maneuvers are not enabled while the vehicle is under computer control to reduce the potential for erratic vehicle behavior. The vehicle operator is relied on to intervene and take action. The system is not designed to alert the operator.
Jack Gonzalez
yes. Less than humans on the long run though
Colton Walker
lol wang
Jeremiah Sanchez
Nobody is stupid enough to think the car is driving with GPS with a few car length precision, right? RIGHT?
GPS is for navigation. Na-vi-ga-tion.
Jack Williams
it's a cheap and easy to exploit attack surface that's being introduced that didn't exist before. also much harder to find the culprit.
Chase Morgan
Are we talking about GPS jamming or spoofing? First one is simple enough but latter is rather bitching to do
INS is fucking shit and only good for airplanes because inaccuracy of 1 mile is enough for you to find an airport + the system uses GPS updates
Military GPS is as accurate as civilian GPS, it just uses more frequencies for anti-jamming purposes
Daniel Adams
>Military GPS is as accurate as civilian GPS, it just uses more frequencies for anti-jamming purposes
yeah if you believe the thing clinton signed
it only applied to current sats, anything new or launched does not have the same rules applied. You honestly believe US military is using up to 10m accuracy
Leo White
true, but you could hack into any modern car and run it off the road, all modern cars also have backdoors for this shit
you better behave goy your you'll get hastingsed
Logan Brown
Self driving car doesn”t actually use GPS to properly navigate... it uses an array of sensors and local programming to react to nearby cars.
Interfering with the GPS of an autonomous car doesn’t send them barreling into oncoming traffic. At most it makes them turn onto a one-way, to which the program will nope the fuck right out of that lane the moment one of the cameras picks up the Do Not Enter sign.
Liam Young
The difference between reality and passive aggressive xkcd comic #819 being that while the self-driving car can be fooled into dangerous malfunction by something like , an actual human driver looks at that and still sees a fucking stop sign. But, you know, whatever makes for a smug webcomic.
Nathaniel Brooks
>new chips coming sometime but not all the satellites use them
You don't communicate with the satellites, the satellites broadcast.
Owen Evans
and only 30 of them work on the new standard for the chips
Parker Ward
A car shouldn't crash cause of false GPS signals.
Information collected by the car's sensors should always override external information.
Nicholas Harris
Yeah, that sign really just showed an oversight in the detection algorithm.
Stop and Give Way signs in particular tend to have fairly unique shapes to go along with the text to make them stand out. The detection algorithm obviously relied too much on the text recognition which fucked it up.
Obviously that has since been rectified. The fact that we have such a vibrant community of hackers working to trip up self driving systems makes me hopeful for when autonomous vehicles hit the mainstream because everyone is trying their hardest to break them now, and it's relatively easy for malicious Joe to test his bright idea on a system.
Gabriel Wilson
And all the chips support the old standards.
Joseph Hall
still better than all the drunks and teen texters out there, 1.2 million accidents a year, even with hackers and shit software, I doubt the most fucked up PC can do as bad as most humans.
Jaxon Morris
I wouldn’t use it
Imagine handing your life over to the botnet
That is what you’re doing with self driving cars
Gabriel Carter
My point was that people deface traffic signs all the time. Fuck, I can't remember the last time I didn't see a stop sign without either "don't" written in sloppy spray paint at the top or some random local band's shitty sticker/flyer taped to it. People aren't going to stop defacing traffic signs just because self-driving cars are becoming a thing. They're probably not even aware that such defacement could even cause an accident. They're used to a human being still seeing a stop sign regardless of what they plaster onto it.
Wyatt Collins
*The problem is that they relied on the driver in the first place.
fixed it for you
Cameron Cruz
this will obviously be fixed at some point.
Im actually amazed that they have AI driving in the real world that hasnt been trained extensively on "dirty" examples.
Kayden Reed
Yeah, and because people didn't really think about it the detection algorithm wasn't robust enough.
Some road map software also has things like Stop signs so there is also the possibility of using a combination of map data and visual sensors to identify a Stop intersection.
And then there's the driving software, how it reacts to things like a blind corner that isn't controlled by a Stop sign (or doesn't seem to be controlled by a Stop sign).
Hudson Cooper
>traffic signs exist when it's all self driving cars
Brody Cox
Cars are inherently dangerous. Self-driving cars just means you're trusting a lousy AI to control a death machine for you. It's a tragedy waiting to happen.
Jason Garcia
Honestly, I'm siding with the car on this one. That recognition issue seems more like an oversight that can be fixed than a fundamental flaw in the underlying systems, not to mention the fact that the self-driving car has access to maps of the area, which would include those sorts of details. Assuming up to date map data it doesn't matter if the sign is legible or even physically present.
Owen Anderson
Wouldn't it be easier to simply crash into a self-driving car by buying a cheap $100 junk car and ramming it?
Eli Wright
>You honestly believe US military is using up to 10m accuracy
sooo... you are talking entirely out of your ass?
Matthew Hill
bump
Josiah Sanders
>If you're close enough to a manually operated vehicle, you can apparently throw the vehicle off course using a laser pointer to blind the driver.
Lucas Diaz
Human driving car is inherently unsafe
Aaron Sullivan