>FreeDesktop platforms have come a long way in terms of usability and as we strive to make them better platforms for application developers, I think it’s time to shed one more shackle that slows that down: themes.
>Now, coming from me that view may be a surprise (because of all those themes that I call personal projects) but I do feel it’s necessary mainly because the level of visual customisation that is being done at the distribution level has led to widespread visual fragmentation which impacts both user- and developer-friendliness.
First your desktop icons. Then your themes. Then your life.
GNOME received a 1 million donation from an anonymous donor and a $400 000 in the last hours. They are also the de-facto Linux DE and basically GTK won in the end over Qt.
So no, if you don't agree with their views just deal with it or use an inferior less supported graphical toolkit.
Charles Ward
probably M$ trying to make sure linux never takes off
Luke Wilson
>we'll have to do X that will fuck up our existing user base, but trust us, the app developers (TM) will come For how many years have they been doing this shit now? Where are all the app developers?
Brayden Nguyen
They can receive even more, although it's clear that money they've received isn't spent on hiring competent developers.
Eli White
>(((developer's rights))) to (((brand identities))) IT'S MY FUCKING COMPUTER YOU ABSTRUSE FOOT NIGGER
Adam Butler
A FUCKING FOOT
Sebastian Hughes
>They are also the de-facto Linux DE and basically GTK won in the end over Qt Yeah, nah.
Lincoln Smith
>They are also the de-facto Linux DE and basically GTK won in the end over Qt.
>he says as more and more DEs are moving to Qt precisely as a result of bullshit like this
In my timeline Canonical axed Unity 8 (which was made in Qt) and replaced it with GNOME.
Anthony Myers
>No themes So, they kill the only thing that makes GTK better than Qt? Will someone add Wayland support to GTK+2? GTK+3 was clearly a mistake.
Grayson Lee
Does Qt even have themes?
Nolan Watson
>what is Budgie >what is LXQt Also most applications worth shit use Qt.
Kevin Kelly
I don't get why GNOME devs are obsessed with stripping features and making the system more basic and "simple to use" when the guys at elementary OS are already doing that and in a better way.
Red Hat has been trying for years to push their footcheese DE on corporate end user customers, even after 3.0 totally ruined most of the HIG research that Sun put into GNOME 2 for Solaris.
Grayson Walker
>I would rather see GNOME evolve as a platform and become a little less developer-hostile by dropping support for third-party themes, than stagnate. Surely the removal of third-party theme support and less options overall wouldn't stagnate a DE. How are these people even developers? This is a genuine argument for less options. >If ending the wild west of visual customisation (which would probably end all of those projects of mine) on GNOME is necessary to grow the ecosystem, so be it. If this is what's necessary to finally end Gnome and GTK, so be it.
Tyler Gray
Budgie 11. It's still in development.
Grayson Edwards
>The biggest offenders continue to be downstream projects that theme GNOME extensively by overriding the default icons and stylesheet, and insist that that’s part of their own brand identity, but so long as that practice carries on then this fragmentation will continue. STOP DOING THINGS WE DON'T LIKE
Parker Rodriguez
How are they actually going to stop this? You already have to install GNOME Tweak to change your theme.
Zachary Scott
They're going to hardcode CSS values at compile time and push everything into flatpaks so you can't use LD_PRELOAD.
Jacob Gonzalez
Oh look, another GTK based DE received a huge amount of money from an anonymous donor, now the developer can work full time!
Someone is definitely trying to kill Linux on desktops.
Blake Russell
I'm actually happy for that donation. Pantheon is one of my favorite DE. It being retardproof is an advantage when you deal with people who isn't good with computers.
Cameron Reed
That is hilarious. At least I was never dumb enough to fall for the GNOME meme.
>Gnome will spends the money removing theming support >Elementary will spend the money patching their Apple theme back into Gnome The dontations cancel themselves out
Christopher Turner
Yes
Xavier Johnson
I wonder if there's rich autists having a pissing contest behind the scenes.
Jackson Wood
My god they made so many mistakes with unity 8 like using their own display server and making it use js for most addons. Along with shoving an entire desktop on a weak ass phone.
Jose Garcia
If it werent for the retarded license Mir would be the standard display manager now
Zachary Cruz
What's a gnome and why should I care?
Charles Perry
I don't know why Jow Forums hates KDE so much, I've been using it and Qt for over a year on my workstation, even building some software I needed for myself, like a mind planner, and it's literally perfect
Joseph Hall
All we need to do is removing Gnome from anything else and everybody will be happy again.
Brody Russell
Because KDE is clumsy, inconsistent and overcomplex.
Oliver Hill
>At least I was never dumb enough to fall for the GNOME meme.
Exactly
Noah Butler
>They are also the de-facto Linux DE
lol
Hunter Wilson
hahahaha
Colton Miller
it wasn't a mistake, they just didn't push hard enough
Colton Clark
It's not your computer anymore if you use Gnome.
Kayden Hughes
>Canonical axed Unity 8
Who gives a shit?
Thomas Rogers
Microsoft Windows doesn't have this problem
Easton Brooks
>Implying anyone actually uses vanilla Ubuntu. I've never seen anyone actually use GNOME, it's always KDE or Xfce or something else. I've never seen GNOME beyond screenshots of a base Ubuntu install.
Jose Ward
>t. faggot
Jaxson Peterson
Maybe you are just too stupid for KDE?
Joseph Butler
sheep
Ayden Harris
Gnome devs are doing it wrong, like Mozilla. There is a major difference between cutting out features and making it minimalist.
Also why are people talking about KDE and Qt as if they're the same?
Brayden Howard
This wouldn't be a problem if the default theme didn't look like dog shit
Bentley Edwards
I've seen people defend Microsoft and tell me "it's different this time".
This is *exactly* how it happened 10+ years ago. It's uncanny actually.
Jeremiah Robinson
Its the Gnome philosophy. They take legit human computer interaction research and take it to the fucking extreme, trying to enforce it by removing features.
Ex there was that legit research paper that showed people don't really work more efficiently with tons of windows/tabs open everywhere, it's more efficient to organize your work space and focus on one task at a time.
So instead of adding features to help organize your workspaces and focus on tasks (like KDE), Gnome REMOVED FUCKING MINIMIZE BUTTONS. Their solution to follow this line of research was to force people to work a certain way by removing features that allowed them to do something they believed was counter-productive.
Easton Sullivan
>REMOVED FUCKING MINIMIZE BUTTONS
to this day, I legit don't miss it. just throw a window on top of the window. jesus fuck. and the maximize/minimize button could be better done with default superkey+up/down arrow.
Hudson Bell
anyone who's ever played an EA or Activision game has Qt installed, "winning" the linux desktop means literally nothing
also gnome 3 theme makers gave up years ago because upstream was hostile and would constantly break everything but adwaita without warning so this isn't surprising just another stripped feature
Dominic Gonzalez
It is time to migrate to Qt or something as capable.
The elementary guys should just take GTK over. They seem to at least some idea of what they're doing.
Jonathan Butler
Theming is not going away from GTK. (GTK please, we're low-key trying to make the plus disapear.) I wrote that code, I maintain it, and it's definitely not in my interest to make it hard to use for anyone.
Aiden Thompson
I just wish Gnome 3 used less resources and was more responsive, and faster. I don't understand why the devs haven't optimized it for performance.
Hunter Cox
This so fucking much. Gnome is literally the most ergonomic graphical environment/interface in a world where a traditional mouse+traditional keyboard is the king of human-computer interfaces.
Unending amounts workspaces was a great idea. Most UI functionality accessible from Super key was a great idea - your left hand ends up staying there naturally when you're not typing and very little software utilizes Super for functionality, so it doesn't break functionality.
Minimizing windows doesn't make any fucking sense whatsoever. It's a waste of time, and waste of mouse movement. If you're running out of space - make another workspace.
Matthew Kelly
on the bright side, no features, no bugs.
Carter Barnes
Pretty much the only valid complaint about Gnome. If it ran on 3rd world hardware id would've been goat.
Jace Brown
Why is gnome limiting my freedom in such a way?
Oliver Flores
Yeah, that's why I still use Xfce. If Gnome ran as well and smoothly as Xfce, I'd use it in a heartbeat.
Charles Fisher
>If ending the wild west of visual customisation (which would probably end all of those projects of mine) on GNOME is necessary to grow the ecosystem, so be it. I'm not understanding how GNOME plans to grow, considering 90% of personal computer usage has always been visual customization of the same old basic activities.
Austin Clark
Gnome committing suicide is a good thing
Jeremiah Powell
lol, too bad traditional mouse+traditional keyboard is the king of ergonomic computer interface
Aaron Hill
He's not gtk / gnome developer. He's an owner of some famous gtk theme and icons
Robert Baker
Qt is used everywhere these days whereas GTK is pretty much only used by GNOME. Geee.. I wonder why.
Christian White
Well to be honest mir was more ready than wayland ever was. I prefer to to use snap packs instead of flatpaks(of course normal packages are always best). What license did they use?
Julian Davis
>I would rather see GNOME evolve as a platform and become a little less developer-hostile by dropping support for third-party themes, than stagnate. Doing so would also bring us in line with the how the major (successful) platforms maintain a consistent look and feel and consider app developers’ control over their apps and their rights to their brand identities. ( Major successful platforms ) do they think this is going to help them compete with microsoft or apple?
Carson White
Use KDE, LXQT. Don't fell for GTK meme.
Connor Mitchell
It actually has. I don't think ricing windows is as easy as was riding GNOME.
Dominic Scott
I dont understand the complaint here. What themes change the way applications look or function beyond a superficial level? If anything extensions are the only thing that come close and they only really change the DE not the applications.
Dominic Allen
but that's wrong you fucking retard
Chase Cox
>Will anything stop the tyranny of the footfags? >Will anything stop the tranny footfags?
This seems like a bizarre swipe at ubuntu who just confirmed their new theme for 18.10 called "Yaru" omgubuntu.co.uk/2018/07/yaru-ubuntu-theme . Have these guys been huffing steve jobs ashes? Ubuntu should be looked at as a boon to gnome, for money, resources, development help, but leave it to gnome developers to find something to be bitter about.
Pantheon ≠ GNOME. Both were made with GTK+, but they're their own things, just like Cinnamon, MATE and XFCE.
Ayden Jackson
Could we see another fork of gnome if something like this happens? Maybe ubuntu decides to? How asshurt would the benevolent developers at gnome be then?
Hunter Morgan
MATEQt when?
Michael Martin
>even after 3.0 totally ruined most of the HIG research that Sun put into GNOME 2 for Solaris. This is one of the most perplexing things. Red Hat wastes a lot of effort trying to pressure every little app and widget to conform to "the GNOME 3 vision", but that vision is based on nothing — especially not on established research, field testing with actual users, or any form of feedback. It's barely even internally consistent.
But when other distros apply their own customizations to make GNOME closer to something users actually want, *that's* somehow a bad thing.
Christian Jones
>GNOME dev on removing haha soon they'll remove GNOME itself
It had an inclusion that every piece of code that was written for it was owned by Canonical and that they could do with it what they wanted (make it proprietary). So in essence contributors were working for free
Zachary Rogers
>Gnome REMOVED FUCKING MINIMIZE BUTTONS that's not one of gnome's issues, it's really useless since it's really a lot easier/better to just press super for the overview which is great gnome's issue is under the hood bugs and moves like this one
Jeremiah Cox
Wouldn't be better if we convinced other people to use any of the other DE instead of GNOME? Pantheon for those who want a stupidly easy to use interface. Cinnamon for those who want a traditional UI with some customization options. MATE and XFCE for those who want to customize every bit of their desktop. Hell, even MATE has a tool called MATE tweaks that can make the DE look like another DE (Unity included) with one click. And this without counting QT-based DE like KDE or LXQT and Window Managers.
Jaxon Anderson
>really problematic when applications have custom CSS. I wonder who's behind this post.
Josiah Scott
>Well to be honest mir was more ready than wayland ever was. bullshit mir is just a canonical for of wayland just like unity was a fork of gnome and it's pointless because ubuntu was isn't and never will be relevant everywhere like that white nigger deluded himself
Brody Sullivan
Googled the post's URL. Found this from a GNOME dev on leddit.
Mir is not a fork of wayland and unity is not a fork of gnome.
Lucas Murphy
suuuuuuuure they're not
William Smith
Don't feed the troll. It's quite clear he knows shit on what he's talking about
Matthew Davis
funny, I vaguely remember reading recently reassurances that GTK4 won't break theming like GTK3 did ... this is their solution >no themes >no problem >t. stalin
Isaiah Miller
IIRC Mir came before Wayland did. How can it be a fork of something not yet created to begin with
Jaxon Harris
His bullet points are so fucking stupid. The only ones that actually think they should decide what theme is used are the user and Gnome developers. Everyone else is just offering themes.