Why do premades have such a bad reputation for quality of components and build when they are actually usually far...

Yes? They use your ordinary PCI-E and PCI cards for expansion, and SATA ports for storage expansion. I have no idea what this talk of prebuilts having proprietary everything comes from. They use nonstandard PSU but new ones can be bought for cheaper than your regular ATX PSU and PSU lasts for decade+ anyway.

Business/Workstation premades are good. It's those consumer desktops which are utter crap. Full tower but an AMD APU with no expansion, and laptop power supply. Even the lower end Asus Strix 'gaming' desktops are terrible with budget 3 phase VRMs and lackluster expansion for Kaby Lake. The top-end ROG desktops are using toned-down/modified Prime boards inside(You can see it, because Tempered Glass). Alienware motherboards are Asrock low-end variants.
.

Oh, you replied to the wrong post. I was talking about wanting that case (case only) to put my own parts in but nobody is selling it.

This, basically. Unless you plan on gaming, any business-class prebuilt will work for you. The whole systems typically have 3 year total warranties on them, so they're made to last under someone's dusty ass desk for at least that long.

Posting this from Dell T3500 workstation I pulled from the trash years ago.

Now, non-business premades can vary greatly and don't necessarily hold up to the same standards. Especially not your average $200 Walmart blue-light specials.

>there are people who buy/use anything other than business-model laptops or desktops
>there are people who pay beyond $300 for a PC
>there are people who pay beyond $200 for a PC

lol

you can buy a 500W 80+ gold for under 100 bucks

because they are third party buying from second party hardware sellers,

Bought this for 450, how did I do?
amazon.com/Lenovo-IdeaCentre-Flagship-Business-Quad-Core/dp/B07BWD2M9H/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1533781137&sr=8-3&keywords=lenovo desktop

bad

you are supposed to buy business line models 2-3 years after release

you can get a lenovo or dell business desktop with 8gb and 4th gen i5 for less than $200 now

I don't mind them that much except that cooling performance tends to be shit and dust filters are non existent.
Also usually they only fit 120 or smaller fans, which are noisier.

>alle premade sind die same

The cheapest ~500W 80+ gold PSU on Newegg is $57 Rosewill. If you buy a respected brand like Seasonic you have to shell out $70+.

Oh well, I'll have to keep that in mind for next time.
>tfw had friends who build PCs tell me it was a good deal
Those dicks.

Of course you paid a good price for current hardware, don't let me dissuade you

just know that 3 years from now, you can be buying today's 8th gen intel or ryzen cpu business builds with ddr4 ram sticks for sub $200

the cycle continues indefinitely now

Yeah, My aunt bought an Acer desktop not long ago. (She hated Windows Ten, so I downgraded it to 7). I cracked it open to see the inside. Nothing but a laptop board installed in a desktop form factor. The damn CPU cooler was a joke, smallest thing I ever seen, bout the size of a credit card width wise. Least it did have a PCI16 slot so you could upgrade the graphics if it came down to it.

So, anybody knows which prebuilt lines use standard components? I've been thinking of buying one as a base and just adding some extras to it for a while now.

CTO models and high-end models produce higher margins, so there's an incentive to "get it right the first time" when the manufacturer delivers the product. else all that profit is for naught if a defect causes a return, a warranty replacement, or any other issue that requires shipping, phone support time, etc.

tl;dr
you usually get what you pay for (save the occasional lemon, or silicon lottery win)

Well, good thing that model is 3 years old. I figure I can buy a decent graphics card when I have some cash and continue using this for the next few years. Thanks for the tip, user.

ITT: my time is worth 0$ / hour

>my time is worth a lot of money so instead of buying a completely built PC I will shop for and buy individual components and put them together myself

Back in the day Dell (and others) used to use non standard ATX wiring and proprietary PSU's. So if your original PSU died and you replaced it with an aftermarket one, all that would happen is either a fried motherboard or a fried new psu, or both. Also due to the special case design/PSU dimensions, the aftermarket PSU may not even fit proper. The solution some bright company marketed was a simple cable adapter that "re-wired" everything back to standard ATX Spec. Kinda the same thing as a 20pin to 24 pin ATX adapter. The whole thing sucked ass. Just so folks would have to buy replacement parts from dell (or whoever).

Why would you retardedly use a regular ATX PSU with a Dell when you can buy a Dell OEM PSU for cheaper?

Its largely due to this
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague
People expereanced this in the eirly 2000s, and it effected many desktop manufacturers, people still remember it to this day but don't realize that it was less of the manufactuirer's fault as it was up the chain to one of the biggest electrolytic cap manufacturers.
Theres a reason why in the mid 2000s, "Japanese" caps were a selling point and talked about on forums.

Were you trying to prove his point or....?

Cost. If your trying to restore a classic Dimension system from 2001, a OEM PSU for that model will cost a fuckton cause you know they don't make them anymore. Also it's used, so you never know how long it'd last. Why blow $$ on a used PSU that could die in a week?

Also the "converter cable" only costs like maybe $12.

Because there was no visual difference, the keying of the plugs was exactly the same, despite it feeding current down different pins.
Unless you "just knew" there was no way to know since it wasn't made known in the consumer documents.

OEM usually put the shittiest PSU they can for planned obsolescence, and in the SFF versions they could care less about the standard and use weirdly shaped PSUs so you cant use most PSUs on it which are already rare to start with.
Some high end and business computers are the exception that use good quality ones.
HP(and other low quality OEM) has the bad habit of using the PSU as a extract fan, which kills the computer even faster.

Then there is the cheap motherboard problem, most if not all lack VRM cooling, also they can be those propietary ones that use a 12,14,16 or 26 ATX power slots instead the standard 20-24 pin ATX power cable.
Also the use of Chinese capacitors(For both Motherboard and PSU), for a reason "Japanese capacitors" is a plus when it comes to motherboards, but then there is the scam of "Capacitors designed in Japan" but are cheaply made in china, ASRock and Gigabyte love to do this and use them.
Cheapest SSDs around are used, WD Green and A400 are really popular when it comes to SATA, or Liteon for M2 SSDs.

I repair computers for a living, ask me anything.

>OEM usually put the shittiest PSU they can for planned obsolescence,
OEM computers are meant to be used with reliability for 8-10 hours a day 5 days a week for 5-6 years. They use much better parts than your shitboxes you "overclock" in your gayrage.

I bought my seasonic for $60 and its 450W gold passive.

optiplex g620s
I 'member

>Shitty no name brand is better than Supernova, Great wall or FSP
Here is your reply user.
Even HEC is better when it comes to such PSUs.

>Supernova
Superflower*

I'm IT support for a very, very large university with Dell and HP contracts and once you get to Workstation-class PCs everything is generally pretty good; including the PSUs.

I'm pretty disappointed in the 50xx series Optiplexes however. Every component they use is fine except for another fucking custom-sized PSU they moved to because they shrunk the case a bit from the perfectly good midtowers they used from the 790-7020's.

50xx is supposed to be shit-tier for poor companies.

i have $500 to buy a computer
should i buy dell workstation or make one

$500 is just enough to pay for a decent case, PSU, and CPU cooler.

Which is to be expected with the high end stuff, i have serviced Thinkstations that have no problems, the kind of computer that is never turned off for example.

What are you going to use it for?

because when people talk about premades they are talking about $300 acer prebuilt garbage you buy at walmart. a dell precision is a fucking enterprise class workstation, of course it is going to be better quality.

Our standard desktop for staff right now is a 5050 with a 500GB SSD (hynix usually), 16GB of RAM, a 4GB Radeon 450. We get them for $800 flat which isn't bad.

Faculty and researchers get Precisions, or if they want Z-somethings but I've never been very fond of the Z-series stuff from HP. The Elitedesks are shit too.

everyday use with shit load of tabs and windows (more than my tiny thinkpad anyway)
and option to upgrade to a mid level gaming computer maybe later on

i can get a dell precision with i7, 16gig ram, gpu (shit but so what) and a 20inch dell monitor for 450, fuck you

Which model?

T3500

Why add expansion slots at all if you can't use 'em?

Dell Precisions are workstations, often used for heavy CAD work. Of course their PCI-E slots get used for graphics cards.

>1st gen I7
No, too expensive and not strong enough.

You are better buying a 3rd or 4th gen I5 computer for $100-200.

$450 can get you far better models of workstations. I've seen HP Z440s go for about that money.

this. you can get a ivybridge i7 precision pro or optiplex off lease in the $200 range. $450 for a fricken 1st gen i7 is fucking ridiculous. a 20" monitor or worth nothing. you can literally pick them up off the curb on garbage day.

The monitor that comes with it is also $35 alone.

They're purpose built to the point of saving pennies at the eventual cost of hundreds later on should you want to change anything.

I have a lenovo P300. The sata power connectors run THROUGH the motherboard, so i cant add more than 2 drives total cause even if i had a PCI-e card to add more sata ports, the bios and chipset only recognize the ones that get their power via the mainboard. My options to upgrade are almost identical to that of a laptop other than maybe adding a GPU that does not use a 6pin cable(board limits the PCI-e slot to 45 watts too, so nothing better than a 1030.)

haha no. shop around more faggot. people give away these pieces of shit for free. $20 can get you a 22" widescreen lcd

I was talking about that specific one.

$450 seems a bit pricey for that.... The P300 i got() was $400cnd(so like $300usd) and its a i7 4890, 16gb or ram, K620, 1tb of ram and 240gb SSD.

Get a $150 2-Bay NAS. There, I solved your upgrade "problem."

well they aren't that cheap in this part of the world, still more than a case, cooler and a psu
fucking pc building basedboys like to claim that building pcs saves you money and it's possible to build a reasonable computer at $500 or less but when it comes to actually delivering they're like "oh dude that'll just get you a cpu"

Oh thanks buddy, lemme just store all my steam games on a NAS...

Honestly, when did Jow Forums get so fucking stupid? Its a legit "problem", faggit. Most people who are competent enough to maintain or build a PC will want more than 2 drives in it.

i paid $250 for a Optiplex 7040 with an i7 6700 and 8GB DDR4

for $500 you literally can build something better than a fucking 8 year old system that dell is

I paid $100 for a Thinkcentre M93p with no OS, upgraded it to a I7-4770 for another $30, and 8GB RAM for $25.

ebay.com/itm/Lenovo-S30-ThinkStation-Intel-XEON-3-70GHz-16GB-RAM-256GB-SSD-Win-10-Pro/183364901138?epid=6016116195&hash=item2ab1665912:g:Vw8AAOSwQE1bSmuF&_sacat=0&_nkw=Thinkstation S30&_from=R40&rt=nc&_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR10.TRC1.A0.H0.XThinkstation S30.TRS1

>message guy on ebay asking if IBM intellistation can fit a modern atx motherboard
>never even messages back days later

Attached: ibm_intellistation_mpro.jpg (1024x768, 350K)

>get to choose what components and configure the system how you want
>enjoyable hobby for some people
>may be saving money building it yourself

those are ridiculous prices

Some companies just want to get rid of them and could care less of the price they sell them as long someone takes them away.

A lot of it is carried over from when prebuilts were worse and more expensive.

Hey what about an XPS 8930 desktop with maxed out specs? (32gb ram, 8th gen i7-8700, GTX 1080, 2tb hdd)

Question for you my dude:

You are better building your own PC for cheaper and better.

I'm in a unique situation where I would be paying 25% of the retail cost through dell. Originally I was going to get a laptop, but I'm considering a desktop or all-in-one. Either way, I'm paying 1/4 the price.

>80+ Gold
The 90s callled, they want their PSUs back.

If that is the case then its good because of the price
Avoid all in one computers.

But if you have to pay the full price you can get it for $800-900 cheaper and better (Unlocked CPU instead locked CPU).

>But if you have to pay the full price you can get it for $800-900 cheaper and better (Unlocked CPU instead locked CPU).
You can get it for cheaper and better if you built your own.

Ok, so I'm just wondering, if I get this desktop, how limited am I in upgrading it down the road. You're already saying the cpu is locked. I'm not a computer expert by any means. I know all-in-ones are frowned upon, but in my case it would be the form factor/sleekness that I find appealing just as it is with a slim laptop. I'm leaning toward the desktop however.

All in one computers have literally 0 upgradeability and horrible temperatures, also you cant replace the GPU 90% of the time so if it goes bad that is it.
The desktop will let you upgrade GPU, PSU and other stuff.
Locked CPU means you wont be able to overclock it to make it faster, overclocking is the reason why people are still using their old CPUs, see I5-2500K and I7-2600K still being used this days just fine when they are CPUs from 2011..

But if you really can get it at 25% of the price then its a great deal you should take, but if you have to pay full price for it just build a desktop on your own for cheaper.

They get a bad rep from prebuilt gaming machines that are all the bad things about prebuilts.
I picked up a dell small form factor workstation with a recent i5 not long ago for $80 second hand and in practically new condition. Not any different than buying a used thinkpad

There is actually, some workstations are shit when it comes to durability and other have problems (HP Z Workstation coil whine in some models for example).

7020s? is it 2012 again?

I see overpriced Dell refurbs all the time at places like Microcenter.

Things like 755s for $250 dollars, when they should be paying *you* to take it off their hands.

Because there have been 2 good prebuilt designs in 20 years.

I got 4 9020s out of a recycle pile last month. Only thing I don't like about them is the fact that there's no extra 6/8 pin power connectors for a decent video card. supposedly you can get like a $12 adapters that sits between the PSU and their non-standard power connector on the MB, but I haven't looked that close into it yet.

what the fuk you mean they have bad rep for bad parts, it's not just a rep its actually true.

>XPS 8930
Thread with caution. The IPCFL-VM motherboard used in there does NOT have a PCH heatsink, which is a big red flag. (Source:pasonisan.com) The 3-MOSFET-per-phase 4 phase VRMs isn't the worst, but they lack VRM heatsinks. If there is a watercooling option, get that because the trend is that Dell/HP put heatsinks on the same motherboards of the same model if you opt for AIO liquid cooling.

I recommend for you to either: Buy the AIO variant(if there is one), and thermal-epoxy a small heatsink(eBay) onto the PCH, or buy the air cooled variant, and old dell motherboards with similar mounting holes for the VRM heatsinks. The latter also require a PCH heatsink.

I stuck a PCH heatsink (very tiny one, from a dead BIOSTAR H61MGV) into my Toshiba i3 350M laptop and the PCH temperature dropped from 86 Celsius to 67 Celsius without substantial airflow. It's simply NOT okay to have the bare PCH lying there without any form of cooling.

This is for the motherboard alone. may advise more on the PSU side of things.

Thanks for the heads up. I was just reading reviews on this tower, and apparently the high temps is a very real problem along with complaints that the fan is louder than any other computer people have had.

Welcome to prebuilts.

Jow Forums is full of borderline underage posters whose only experience with OEMs are the absolute bottom of the barrel compounded with moronic and equally inexperienced anecdotes from dipshits ascending the summit of Mt. Stupid who constantly blurt out the word "standard" while not actually knowing what it means.

If you buy on price alone, you get what you pay for.

I used to build my own until I had a desastrous experience. So I bought all the parts and then went home and assembled them. PC didn't work. Graphics card was defect. I then went back to the shop and got a new one. Still, it didn't work. Some other part was broken. In the end, I ended up 8 days long driving to that store, sometimes twice in a day, exchanging faulty parts, some of them several times. Frustrated I asked the guy in the store (Atelco, a big chain here) how they build PCs. He said when something doesn't work, he just goes to the shelf and takes out another part. AND PUTS THE OLD ONE BACK.

From then on, I've only bought prebuilt tried and tested boxes.

Where was this? Romania?

Germany (West)

Come represent Jow Forums
pastebin.com/CWG4HJnk

Attached: 1382768141013.jpg (960x603, 38K)

wrong

cto has less margin. set configs have higher margin due to mass production equaling lower build costs