Unironic vim Vs Emacs discussion

Unironic vim Vs Emacs discussion

I've tried both and found them both incredibly obtuse, I know I'll need to hurl myself into the program to learn.

The question is which one?

I don't know enough about workflow or programming to compare them conceptually.

I'm looking for anecdotal insight into benefits and your own views!

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I'd assume most people learn by experience for a while and then get some tutorials for more complex tasks. In the majority of my use for vim, I've only used basic editing commands. It's useful to be able to use a common terminal-based text editor, in case you're on SSH or something. Just learn one bit by bit.

Just pick one desu. I'm a vimfag because I installed vim and found it understandable to use as notepad and went from there but I assume a similar experience is possible with emacs. I think the key-chording of emacs is absolutely disgusting for what it's worth, I'd be interested to hear what an emacsfag thinks of vim keybinds

I would love to ditch Emacs entirely, but these are just too good:
Magit
Tramp
Dired
the gdb integration also isn't bad
(not Org-mode)

just use an editor with sane defaults and implementation
modal editing: kakoune
bloated, platform approach: jEdit, VSCode
just an editor that can open shitton of gigabytes: ultraedit

vim is too clunky and unintuitive
regularly requires more keystrokes with poor positioning and perfect planning than alternatives

>kakoune
This looks pretty neat but I'd still say that he should learn to use one of the big two editors. You have spacemacs and spacevim for ezmode

Why not both? Try using emacs + evil or spacemacs

Vi and Vim are practically industry standard in that if you ever find yourself remotely logged into a box you're not that familiar with, one of the two will be there.
Emacs is closer to a lisp computing environment than an editor. It's beautiful in many ways as a software package. Emacs has an irc client and games, and you can for example write websites with real time previews in chrome using remote debugging.
I use both, emacs with evil-mode to write lisp code, and vim for occasional config file changes and such.

IMO:

I like vim/neovim because the vim ecosystem is portable and powerful nearly everywhere. If you go to someone else's computer and they have vim installed, then if you're good with default editing commands (which are fairly sane), your productivity will take minor hits at best. And that says nothing about how efficient you can be with vim.

My issue with Emacs is, I guess, twofold. Issue one: bad default text editor or, I suppose, bad mini Lisp machine that requires the user to heavily tinker things to their specific desires. Issue two: each thing that you need to tinker with requires its own long, complicated set of documentation to cover both the obvious parts and the subtle quirks. It's basically nightmare fuel if you're a boomer who dislikes reading articles or watching videos that show a single user's most-used commands/actions.

By comparison, once you wrap your head around hjkl, the basic commands (d, c, p, x, r), and learn some of the motions, you can slowly pick and choose what things to add to your vim setup, as you'll be able to edit fairly efficiently with just those basics.

>what an emacsfag thinks of vim keybinds
Inefficient.
Having to waste a keystroke every time you want to go back to command mode is a waste, not to mention that Emacs seems to have shorter key combinations. Good luck with deleting a line at point with a single keystroke in vim.
On the other hand, vi is the only editor besides Emacs with keybindings that were thought out in any way.

use nano or gedit, or even sublime or any other editor.
vim or emacs are dinosaurs, useless in 2018, and only shilled for by turbo autists.

Emacs. It's cleary better than everything else. Also liked the old windows command line editor though.

>use nano or gedit, or even sublime or any other editor.
nano and mcedit are cool for simple stuff while emacs lives, with just a few plugins, on the borderline between a text editor and a IDE.

Emacs.

evil-mode if you want vim keybindings + tramp can just log into servers using your local emacs client. Plus magit, org-mode, etc.

It's a pain when the EDITOR variable is set to vim on some system and admin tools or git throw you into it. :exit; EDITOR=emacs|nano

ide are a meme though.
don't be a brainlet

I like vim. I've been using it for so long now it's just second nature. It's quick, stable, and very powerful.

I tried using emacs, but just couldn't get the hang of it, and hated the chording. That said, emacs with vim keys might be an idea, as emacs has a lot of features I'd love to try out. Also it isn't run by one guy whose future planning is "make sure I don't die".

emacs

It depends on the language you use after all

Emacs because it is easy to customize and extend.

>emacs with vim keys
Now THIS is making me speechless. I cannot even imagine that. On the other hand, vim is probably quite like tmux and various others? I don't really know, I never use it.

emacs can do anything vim can do and more
I completely switched everything I did with vim with evil-mode and emacsclient

Both. I love using Emacs for writing Lisp (which I have to due to having several modules written in CL at work). I love using Vim for making quick edits in files.

All the other time I just stick to my main IDE (netbeans (yes, I actually like it)).

They are both powerful, configurable editors.
But (((unironically))) keyboard driven editors are a meme.

People ``feel'' they are faster with them because one of two reasons:
1) they are "thinking" about how to move the cursor
2) They know in advance what to do*

*Basically they are like karate: It looks effective if you are doing a choreography but in real world you are likely to get your ass kicked.
Using the mouse is more effective, the part of the brain that holds what changes you need to make is different from the one you use
to move the mouse, they don't conflict and you don't need to count or compute how to move the cursor.

Vim and emacs fag don't like the truth

Nah. This does apply to emacs, because your fingers fly over the keyboard. Vim is easier

This. Emacs is much more powerful than Vim, but the Vim keybindings are important to learn if you plan on doing remote work. Evil-Mode is a godsend for the pinky.

I learned Emacs for fun, had to do server work, and no Emacs (I installed it cause school project and who cares). But in the real world, it's not always gonna be there.

You're wrong but only partially. In fact, you almost don't use mouse in any editor, be it vim or sublime or your ide. The only bad thing about vim is that its keyboard mechanics are fucking weird, obscure and consist entirely of legacy mammonth shit brought through years by haxxor kids trying to appear cool by not using normie hotkey conventions. Seriously, modes? Moving cursor with hjkl? Miss me with that gay shit.

>pinky
another idiot believing into fud.
>hurr durr, muh pinky hurts.
all the fucking programs that you have to write using a gorillion times shift+key don't count?

I miss the "o" command of vim in every other editor.
"dd" is comfy.
"C-v I" is useful.

If I have to program in Lisp, LaTeX, or webdev, I use Emacs (without evil because muh minor modes conflicts).

So: Vim best editor, Emacs best IDE.

why no love for org mode?

>you almost don't use mouse in any editor
How can you tell this? Whenever I need to move the cursor I use the mouse.
Also a try to use acme/sam whenever I can

Wow, that's gay. Shiggy diggy about everyone else here.

Ok, kid

Vim is not even in the same class as Emacs.

Emacs is written almost entirely in Emacs Lisp. That means when you edit text, you can write programs in Emacs Lisp to help you.

You will never see a Vim user write VimScript to solve an immediate problem, while it's normal to see an Emacs user write Emacs Lisp to solve an immediate problem.

A Vim user edits text. An Emacs user writes a program that edits text. (In other words, a Vim user is just a human tediously reenacting a program.)

Emacs is also an Emacs Lisp IDE. That means that you can write Emacs Lisp to more efficiently edit Emacs Lisp to more efficiently edit Emacs Lisp to more efficiently edit any kind of text (code, HTML, CSV, HTTP requests and responses, email, the files in a compressed tar or zip archive, directory listings, remote files, etc.)

People who use mouse driven editors don't know about macros.

> macros
They're useless, unless you write boilerplate code

Emacs can emulate Vim if you decide you want Vim. The reverse is not true.

>Also it isn't run by one guy whose future planning is "make sure I don't die".
We have neovim

A vim user doesn't have to use vimscript: they run vim in a terminal. They can open up another buffer, write a script in lisp (or any language), and execute it on the other buffer. Or use tmux/:term to use an existing command-line program. If it's something simple, they can even just use :![program].

That's what people don't understand about using vim. You don't sit in it, you have the entirety of the command line at your disposal. 'people' here includes the idiots who install NerdTREE on day one: they are unironically using it wrong.