When most emulation today is extremely accurate and you save a crapton of space/electricity. Or is it just a neckbeard dick measuring contest to show off your collection?
I've argued with them on Jow Forums and /vr/, but they can't come up with any satisfactory explanation why they can't just emulate and they need to have a huge, power-sucking 35 year old hunk of shit computer to play children's games.
Your thoughts?
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You can't emulate nostalgia.
The hum of the monitor, the spinning of the HDD, the click of the FDD as it's reading the disk. They're all part of the experience. That said I'd never waste the money or the space on it unless I was retired and owned a huge house with tons of space for all that crap.
I guess it makes them happier to do it on an actual old hardware, which is fine by me
You can't emulate the look of a CRT monitor. And all emulators are just approximations of the real thing, if you actually try to game seriously you'll eventually encounter glitches, bugs, framerate issues etc with an emulator. But all of that said, another good reason is that the retro stuff increase in value. A lot. To put it simply, it's a damn good investment most of the time. And also, if you have a nice room for your computing, it's nice to use old games/hardware etc as decorative pieces.
>You can't emulate nostalgia.
That's the gist of it. Firing up some random game in an emulator is one thing, actually having to handle physical media and remember old inputs is something completely different.
In the early 90s editing autoexec.bat and config.sys files to eke out a fraction of extra memory so you could get some new game to run on your 386 was a living nightmare, these days there are people out there who consider it to be fun.
At least this OP didn't include an LGR bash-fest.
>the click of the FDD as it's reading the disk
>floppies
>2018
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>these days there are people out there who consider it to be fun
Clearly people who never actually tried to do it.
>only explanation he has is mmuh feels
>Is there any actual point to collecting real vintage PC shit?
No, for your own satisfaction only.
>Is there any actual point at collecting anything at all
No, for your own satisfaction only.
>Is there any actual point in being alive
No, for your own satisfaction only.
It all comes down to your own pleasure.
I want one of those.
I never got the impression that anyone owned Appleshit outside of schools. Seems like everyone in the 80s had a C64.
>fagintosh
I just prefer older games.
I think they're more fun.
Also I like the beige box aesthetic.
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This is probably an earlier Model 4 since it has a white phosphor tube while later ones switched to green tubes.
If you ask people from California, they're like "Dudewut? Everyone had Apple IIs here." Most likely because it was in Apple's backyard and CA is a rich state so people could afford their overpriced shitboxes.
Nice Fallout 4 terminal prop bro.
It's not mine, it's a pic I found somewhere.
>Macs
>gaming
Actually if you do happen to use one for gaming, it's more likely you are in fact underage because most Mac games are eduware you play in the school computer lab.
if you boot a Model 4 up with no OS disk, it defaults to Model III mode in which you're limited to 64x16 text, 48k of memory, and cannot use the extended keys (or if you boot a Model III OS disk). Native mode loads the OS software entirely off of disk and it's all RAM-resident. However, in Model III mode you can play around with hardware registers and enable Model 4 features like 80x25 text.
Cool.
Note the warning about removing floppies before powering down the computer. This was probably not needed anymore by the time the Model 4 came out, it was more a relic from the Model 1 days when floppy drives could send out a burst of electromagnetic discharge at power up/down and scramble any disks in the drive.
-If it's 90s PC stuff it's for nostalgia. Floppy sounds and that type of shit give me that weird primal brain tingle
- If it's 80s compact "keboard unit" computers it's closer to messing about with raspberry pi and arduino stuff except it's a Z80 or 6502. It's interesting but there's no hint of nostalgia there because that stuff was made before i was born.
it turns out some people like different things than other people. who would have thought?
Memory, quick thinking and reflexes all need to be developed to achieve some sort of high skill in the games that are traditionally considered competitive. No body button mashes in competitions. Pressing buttons is absolutely useless if you don't know what buttons you're pressing. In a reflex based video game you need to think quickly about the situation, decide in a split second whether pushing a button for a specific amount of time is worth it to attain that win condition. Herein lies the problem, nobody thinks like that, only you do. Video games aren't defined by the buttons that are pressed any more than sports is defined by the amount of running one has to do in a grass covered field. Being good actually requires a level of mental exertion.
No you don't retard. All you do while gayming is sit your fat ass in front of a screen pressing buttons.
Most emulation past GBA and SNES are really bad. GC and Wii are probably the best emulated relatively recent consoles, but Sony and Sega shit don't emulate well at all
Hun? PS1 has been emulated perfectly for years.
b8
Ultima is a meme game anyway.
...
PS2 is also sony shit.
Apparently TRS-80s were a popular school computer as well.
Is this what autism looks like?
The point of collecting stuff is to own something that gives you joy.
Damn I wish I kept my old IBM PS/2 80286. Had monitor/keyboard/mouse and dot matrix printer along with all original software floppies. Came with Dos 5 and Windows 3.0
>Is this what autism looks like?
My thoughts exactly, came here to post the same thing
>emulation today is extremely accurate
only someone who has not played on real hardware would say that
emulators have a completely different way of coping with underperforming. emulators will virtually always just drop frames and have a choppier experience. while on real hardware, the game could for example run still at 60fps, but the time would go slower.
>and you save a crapton of space/electricity
you say that but then my P-II computer can run off only a 120W power supply - which can be replaced with a more efficient one, since it's standard ATX, if power usage was really significantly higher. space is a non-issue either
>they can't come up with any satisfactory explanation
to whom? you? you're not interested in the first place, just don't bother with it?
you haven't lived until you used windows 98 on a ssd
I've flip-flopped between this feeling. To an extent, I do a mix of both. I don't outright scour for old hardware on eBay typically, instead I only pick old shit up if I find it for cheap at thrift stores.
While the emulation route is obviously way more convenient, it can be fun to stumble upon old hardware for cheap and start a collection.
>emulators have a completely different way of coping with underperforming. emulators will virtually always just drop frames and have a choppier experience. while on real hardware, the game could for example run still at 60fps, but the time would go slower.
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For example, I showed you the other day how the game doesn't produce that nice 60 fps animation on the emulator.
Get this, people. You absolutely _need_ to play Alf: The Game in 2018 with three colors and bleeper sound on real shitboxes too because the fart bleeps sound more accurate.
But I sill got my last pre-built system, a Dell L800CXE (2001). The only thing wrong with it is a blown PSU. It's a non standard unit so you can't use just any old ATX replacement. Thankfully I got one that'll work from e-bay and I didn't fork out a fuckton of money on it so it's all good.
Nostalgia is a feel, so obviously muh feels are important for nostalgia.
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I know threads like this are usually bait and full of tons of shitposting, but I can try throwing some thoughts into the ring.
There is a significant amount of neckbeard dick measuring. There is a ton of market manipulation with people buying old hardware then hyping it with reviews. The net loss to society from all this autism is potentially catastrophic. I'll give you that much. Worse yet, a ton of this hardware and software is absolute garbage by any standards.
For everyone who has the right attitude, there's a lot to learn from old hardware. It's one thing to read about how Super Mario Bros had scrolling PC games could not match worth a damn at the time. It's another to watch it happening in real time on a finicky CRT while playing on a clunky keyboard. You learn to appreciate very quickly just how much better standards are now.
Then you do some research and learn a little more. Turns out that PS/2 connector has no lag whereas that new fancy keyboard you just bought goes through some many layers of abstraction that it feels unresponsive. Yesterday's tech is now laughing at you. In my case, the original Diablo still runs at a smooth framerate on the secondhand Windows 98 machine I got off Craigslist yet Diablo III on a 8700K, 1080Ti, and NVMe drive still manages to have inconsistency.
Did you know you can build your own Hayes Modem to connect an MSX to a BBS? What about running fan translations of Famicom on original hardware using a reproduction or flash cart? There's tons of wildly elaborate aftermarket solutions to challenges no one necessarily wanted, but they're there.
Most importantly to me, being huge on video games, speed runs, and high-level fighting games was my introduction to programming. The more I learned about exploiting game rules, the more I learned about the tech under the hood. Fast forward a couple decades and I'm writing business software and troubleshooting problems in garbage systems better than most.
>I know threads like this are usually bait and full of tons of shitposting
And mindless LGR hate.
>Worse yet, a ton of this hardware and software is absolute garbage by any standards
Examples?
Somethings just don't emulate well. You can run old games ok but they can be soother on old hardware. I always thought things like sound cards where like snake oil shenanigans. Then I built an old retro DOOM machine. As soon as I heard those 90's soundblaster sounds my jaw hit the floor. Fuck, old hardware can be a fuckton better than emulation. You just have to try it yourself.
>stop liking things i don't like!
I've looked at C64 videos on Youtube and I noticed VICE doesn't get the SID sound 100% accurate if you compare it with real hardware.
Noice.
They're not mine in case you're wondering.
anything that doesn't get you money or pussy is ultimately pointless, that includes posting on Jow Forums, emulating old games and most of the other "valid" things people do on Jow Forums as well
so who cares
I mentioned this the other day but I know a guy who acquired a large lot of TRS-80 stuff several years ago and he said the CoCo was pretty limited and useless compared to the large amount of professional-grade software and peripherals on the Z80 machines. You couldn't do a whole lot aside from program in BASIC.
you said this in the last thread, and you probably just replied to literally the same guy you were baiting the last time too
Theoretically nothing was preventing you from doing that. The CoCo had a more powerful CPU than the Model I/III/IV and had comparable RAM and disk storage.
>Theoretically nothing was preventing you from doing that
Other than that horrible lime green 32 column text.
(not mine before you ask)
>32 column
jesus christ how horrifying
imagine how shitty that would look through RF too
I agree. The 6809 is ace and it has some features the 8086 didn't even have, but the rest of the CoCo's hardware is VIC-20 tier.
>it has some features the 8086 didn't even have
tell us more
the 6800 series chips always interested me but I've never found many examples
God damn. Ultima IV. I grew up on that shit.
Hardware multiply and divide. The 8086 can only fudge it with painfully slow microcodes, so in practice you just have to perform those operations with bit shift instructions like you would on a Z80 or 6502, which also takes more memory than if you just issue a single MUL or DIV instruction.
>imagine how shitty that would look through RF too
The CoCo 1-2 were RF-only, while the CoCo 3 had composite and RGB output. CoCo 3s are about 90% compatible with the older models, except that a few rarely used semigraphics modes were deleted.
interesting they wouldn't include it in a chip like that, maybe they just figured the higher memory ceiling would offset it
The 6809 is a bit newer design than the 8086 IIRC.
>but the rest of the CoCo's hardware is VIC-20 tier.
It also lacks standard parallel and RS-232 ports. There's a proprietary serial port for the modem or printer (you can't have both connected at once) and it doesn't have a hardware UART so you have to drive it in software.
it seems like they were developed and released at roughly the same time. the first 8086 chips were released in June 1978 and I couldn't find a date for the 6809 with some skimming but the wiki page mentions a book/manual/something written in July 1978, though that could have been written before it was actually released
either way it's still a little intriguing
Radio Shack never released CoCo sales figures, but estimates are about 100,000-200,000 of all three models. Certainly the market was small compared to the vast horde of C64s.
Now imagine trying to do word processing on that.
I mean, it still beats the shit out of handwriting as long as it doesn't print the resulting document in 32 columns too.
Word processing on a 40 column C64 was already painful.
Let me guess, you don't think of computers as any more than an appliance that does the things you want and don't care how it does those things. I personally enjoy playing with older hardware because I appreciate how extremely primitive it is compared to computers these days, and you can't really appreciate that when it's only being imitated with yet another layer of abstraction. I still emulate a lot of games though for cost and space reasons, and the hardware that I do have I acquired for cheap rather than the prices that collectors these days are paying.
>Let me guess, you don't think of computers as any more than an appliance that does the things you want and don't care how it does those things
ie. the average Apple fanboy
Of course you also had to buy Radio Shack's printers due to the proprietary CoCo serial interface while the Z80 models could be used with any Centronics printer.
...
>ie. the average Apple fanboy
Except that's the average computer/smartphone user in general these days. Apple has nothing to do with it anymore.
I seem to remember there were a million Centronics -> IEC converters for the C64. Why no such thing for the CoCo?
The CoCo market was _quite_ a bit smaller than the C64 market.
>Apple fanboys
Are you stuck in 2007 or something? It's pretty much 99% of computer users these days, even on Jow Forums. The average gamertard lego builder here is just utterly tech illiterate as your trendy mactard sister and only cares about their PC as far as making sure it runs their games fast and loads all of their shitty twitch streams/youtube letsplays.
Just look at threads like these, riddled with perplexed posters who don't understand why you would use something that can't run a web browser, watch 10bit anime or get 60fps in the latest AAA shooter.
Today I will remind them.
There is no good DirectX emulation in virtual machines
I agree emulation never 100% captures the feel of the real thing.
I have both of these models you speak of just sitting in a storage unit. The Dell works perfectly but the IBM has a bad PSU and probably bad RAM. Haven’t had the time or the cash to get it fixed. Color monitor functions perfectly for the IBM.
>IBM PS/2 with bad PSU and bad RAM
Oh boy here we go. Do I have the heart to tell him that almost everything in a PS/2 is proprietary?
Keyboard lag fucking infuriates me, and is the only way I can think of that newer hardware is inferior. Once I discovered emulation I ditched all my old hardware.
>Once I discovered emulation I ditched all my old hardware.
And what hardware pray tell was that?
I had this for c64. It had 2 disks and you had to remove and turn over or swap every time you moved areas. First turn based rpg of any quality I remember. Best memory was using the ring of power to try to kill the king... killed everyone in the room and that fucker jumped off his throne and chased us out of the castle.
Ultima IV on the C64 didn't have any fastloader, the bastards.
I didn't have any computer shit, I only had consoles. Most NES, Genesis, and SNES stuff.
The Apple II version of U4 is really the best one to play on because it was the target platform and disk access is a million times faster.
C64 and vic20 stuff, Colecovision and A2600 back in the late 90s. It was literally worthless at the time, and I don't regret not hauling it all over the country for 2 decades waiting for it to appreciate.
These have optional hi-res graphics boards installed and the right one has had the original floppies replaced by Teac half height double sided units.
You said above that you had console stuff. Are you bipolar or something?
That wasn't me, it was some other user pretending to be me. Anyway, I sold it all and hopefully it all found a good home and someone is enjoying it now.
IIRC the C64 Ultima IV had two flippy disks. The first was the boot/overworld disk and the other was the dungeon disk and you had to flip them constantly and also swap disks to save your game. I think it may have supported two drives, but most C64s were only used with a single drive unlike Apple IIs where everyone had two drives.
TRS-80s didn't get a whole lot of software because you could only sell it in Radio Shack or via mail order.