Wow gee why haven't you switched to this BASED new wayland window manager that's only 500 lines of code

>needing a display

>Not using your printer to print text as output

>not measuring output voltage and interpreting it in your head

>wayland
dropped

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I’ve dailied i3-gaps for several months, nothing is quite as comfy and simple

SrCmpwn will defend this.

Wayland is a fucking mess. Awful engineering.

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I work on wlroots. We aren't defending these problems, we acknowledge that they exist. Where we differ from luddites like you is that we are trying to fix them instead of complaining on Jow Forums.

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You obviously have no clue what the Luddites were upset about. They lived in a social setting where welfare did not exist. Where wealth and income inequality were through the roof. Factory barons were destroying their way of life, leaving them without work and unable to provide for their families. Their children were being made to work in lethally dangerous factories and mines just so their families could survive. Far from improving their quality of life, the industrial revolution was ruining it. Proponents of industrialization argue that the Luddites should have sucked it up and "taken one for the team" because although they would never live to see the benefits, their children would. Except very often their children were being killed and maimed in factories!

They didn't hate technology. They hated social circumstances that were being aggravated socially irresponsible applications of technology.

To bring this back around to Wayland, this is tech that doesn't solve real problems that real Linux desktop users have. It's a bunch of bullshit for retards like Drew to masturbate their massive egos with. These people have never encountered a wheel they didn't want to reinvent.

For the time being Wayland can be easily ignored, but the day will come when it gets forced on everybody. The future where common applications depend on toolkits that no longer support X is coming soon. And then the lives of common linux users will be changed for the worse without their consent, without any benefit to them.

>Where we differ from luddites like you is that we are trying to fix them instead of complaining on Jow Forums.
"LMAO just build your own factory you plebs."

Has it ever occurred to you that many of the people complaining are productive with their computers in ways unrelated to your dumb fucking scheme? I'm supposed to drop all my work and change disciplines so I can clean up the mes you cowboys are making? Fuck yourself with knives.

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Seriously Drew DeVault's ego is out of control.

The problems luddites once faced has little bearing in its contemporary use and nothing to do with the matter at hand.
The future you describe isn't coming. If you want to use X, no one is stopping you. So the new taco shop uses a recipe you don't like, woe is fucking you, just keep going to taco bell and leave the rest of us out of your shit taste.

>>The problems luddites once faced has little bearing in its contemporary use and nothing to do with the matter at hand.
It matters because your failure to understand and sympathize with the luddites is analogous to your failure to understand and sympathize with users of software.

> If you want to use X, no one is stopping you.
See:
>For the time being Wayland can be easily ignored, but the day will come when it gets forced on everybody. The future where common applications depend on toolkits that no longer support X is coming soon. And then the lives of common linux users will be changed for the worse without their consent, without any benefit to them.
inb4 more "just make your own factories" rhetoric.

I use bspwm every day and can't stand all the mouse-based de shit.

>only 500 lines of code

DE should be as complex as they need to be.

If you are autistic and obsessed with minimalism your needs are abnormal.

The best tiling wm is clearly awesome-wm.

You ignored the part where I said the future you expect isn't coming. Pay attention, prick.

It is and you know it. The goal of everybody involved in Wayland is to render X obsolete. Major distributions will drop X and that will be used as justification for toolkits to drop support for X as well.

The only way to stop this is to bullicide you retards before it's too late.

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i3wm is better than all those

i want to use wewland, but i have nvidia card

Bspmw > i3.
From both design and usability perspective.

what makes it so great?
also, how do i configurate bspwm
im too much of a brainlet to get it working

So, do you have an actual use case that's being phased out here, or do you just like the identity politics

i'm going to give you a protip, btw
the entire point of the open source community is that the ability to create X apps and X distrobutions and X based WM's still exists, just look at Devuan rejecting SystemD

But Noooo, you'd rather whine on Jow Forums about how everything in linux is out to get you

>identity politics
Nobody here has brought identity politics into this. What a pathetic deflection attempt. "help help, the ALT-RIGHT RUSSIAN TROLLS are being everybody criticizing me!"

>i'm going to give you a protip, btw
>the entire point of the open source community is that the ability to create X apps and X distrobutions and X based WM's still exists, just look at Devuan rejecting SystemD
See:

>Has it ever occurred to you that many of the people complaining are productive with their computers in ways unrelated to your dumb fucking scheme? I'm supposed to drop all my work and change disciplines so I can clean up the mes you cowboys are making? Fuck yourself with knives.

>what makes it so great?
1. Design. It's "just" the WM. It provides controls for everything that you can use with your preferred method. Default one is by using keyboard daemon (sxhkd) that has all your other scripts and key bindings too.
No bars (you can add any you want) no built-in keyboard daemon.
As a result- infinite scripting capabilities. You can literally use ANY language to modify it.
This is also impossible in Wayland, since that shit requires everything to be a part of compositor.
>also, how do i configurate bspwm
There are default configs provided with software. Just copy them and edit in text editor. They are plaintext.
>im too much of a brainlet to get it working
It's not hair than i3. It even try easier. All the visuals, rules and desktops are in "bspwmrc" and all the controls for Windows and what not are in "sxhkdrc".

>install this WM, now with more autism and less functionality :^)

sorry but I'll wait 20 years for wayland to actually become usable and most importantly stable
no. bspwm is :^)

That's badass is it supposed to be the TinyWM of wayland?

I'm a huge fan of SirCmpWin's Sway.

mah nigga

>Has it ever occurred to you that many of the people complaining are productive with their computers in ways unrelated to your dumb fucking scheme? I'm supposed to drop all my work and change disciplines so I can clean up the mes you cowboys are making? Fuck yourself with knives.
See:

Do you have an actual use case that's being phased out or are you just whining like a cuck

What the fuck are _you_ talking about?
The identity politics is you trying to make it "WAYLAND NUKEK USERS VS THE CHAD X OLDSCHOOL LINUX SYSADMIN'

>>Do you have an actual use case that's being phased out or are you just whining like a cuck
Lets go with "being able to change window decorations without requiring client support."

And how is this being phased out and made unable to be used by your current software that already works the way you like

What's preventing again, open source software from taking up the solution already posted in that image if you must use the software in question?

Is there an actual problem or did you just see one and blow it out of proportion to whine about the end of linux on Jow Forums?

>not putting two wires against your tongue and F E E L I N G the information

>criticising my project = Luddite
That makes no sense. Just because X has fundamental flaws does mean some other project that aims to replace it is beyond reproach.

>Wayland doesnt deprecate anything!
>[wayland deprecates this]
>You don't need that anyway!
>Write it yourself!
Typical.

Are you going to update all the decades X11 clients? It's not going away anytime soon even if Wayland sorts it's shit out.

If you haven't caught on yet, proponents of Wayland rely on appeals to emotion and playing the victim to promote their shitty software. Anybody who criticizes it is called a luddite troll who should drop their own work and join the wayland project to replace something that already works.

>This software that's going to eventually get updated to use the new solution and deprecate the old way of doing things won't use the new solution that's already been detailed

what the hell end user scenario are you even talking about anymore

>Are you going to update all the decades X11 clients?
Nobody is going to, so when major distros drop X support everybody that uses all of that software is going to be SOL.

No, you see, it's going to get updated but it won't get updated

Wayland makes the clients draw their own window decorations. This is fucking awful and you wayland tards have no answer to it. The "muh protocol" is a non-answer since it will require client support for changing how/if the window decorations are drawn. Any answer that requires client changes is a non-answer and you know it.

Every time a shortcoming of the wayland system is pointed out the answer from you retards is always "muh protocol". The answer always involves changing client code. It's a complete mess.

But your old software is going to get updated to use wayland INEVITABLY AND RUIN YOUR SOFTWARE

You'll have active software projects that no longer support running on X, and old software that only supports running on X, and poorly written but nevertheless necessary software that runs on Wayland but does not implement the right protocols to work around the fundamental limitations of Wayland.

It's a completely unnecessary clusterfuck. There is no reason for any of this trouble to exist in the first place.

no you see it's going to get updated to require wayland but won't get updated to use wayland and this will ruin my current software that already works SOMEHOW

See: I'll have software that only supports X and other software that only supports Wayland (often not with the right features). New software supporting X will become uncommon as soon as GTK drops support for X, which WILL happen because all of you gnome/gtk/wayland retards are constantly bitching about "muh fragmentation" while doing your damnedest to create even more of it, justifying this by trying to snuff out the competition.

When an application using wayland doesn't support the "window decoration extension", how do I change the way it draws it's window decorations?

Clients drawing their own window decorations is the dumbest idea to ever grace the linux desktop world.

>You'll have active software projects that no longer support running on X

debian, devuan, what's the issue

Non-wayland distributions will become untennable when mainstream software like firefox drops support for toolkits that support X.

>I'll have software that only supports X
I don't see why Xwayland wouldn't work

Just run Wayland apps (are there really any SINGLE piece of software for Wayland that doesn't exist in a better form for X?) from your X session.
That shit does support a session for a single "fullscreen" application like X does, right?

I mean you can run away from inside Xorg right now. Just open sway with one fullscreens program and use your preferred X11 DE/WM do manage it.

That's going to work longterm about as well as XQuartz. It's a second class citizen with a second class user experience.

Yeah, but does that really matter if it's aged software that's only necessary because your workflow still requires it but you somehow refuse to use X

>(are there really any SINGLE piece of software for Wayland that doesn't exist in a better form for X?)
Not currently but there will be when GTK drops X support.

It does matter because it's trash and there is no good reason for it to be trash.

You wayland fucks are making trash and intend to force it on the rest of us.

>debian, devuan, what's the issue
Even more fragmentation, apparently "solving an issue" inevitably means "kinda somewhat solving the issue but not actually doing a good enough job, so you inevitably fracture your user base and create many things which all don't really solve the issue".

the "fracture" is more like a subset of people who refuse to use it for ideological reasons, devuan isn't exactly blowing up the distrowatch charts

but they CAN make their own solution and that's the entire fucking point

>there will be when GTK drops X support.
Just shift to Qt. Gimp toolkit turned to shit with v3 anyway and GNOME faggots are only going to make it worse.
Also, you could still run them from inside X as I described.

when will Jow Forums make their own X replacement?

>who refuse to use it for ideological reasons,
And here we see why this fuck (it's the "developer", isn't it) brought identity politics into this. He's so deluded he just doesn't comprehend any other way people don't use their "perfect" solution.

>Just shift to Qt.
That's a fine solution to developers of software, not users of software. The GNOME faggots are the ones leading this charge into a brave new linux desktop, that's why it's so easy to predict everything going to shit as they gain more influence.

>you could still run them from inside X as I described.
aka the XQuartz 'solution', which is awful.

>yet another replacement for shit that's still working
Just fucking stop.

i'll make the logo

no you don't get it the entire point of linux is to stick with legacy software for as long as possible and call everybody who wants to change it idiots, not to have people breaking shit in the name of eventual progress and running stuff that needs to work on stable builds like some kind of software development project yeesh

X11 has network transparency. Shitland doesn't

>XQuartz
The other way around. You don't launch xorg apps from Wayland but Wayland apps from xorg. Works pretty good.

>the "fracture" is more like a subset of people who refuse to use it for ideological reasons
Yeah, of course, but that is kinda irrelevant, systemd failed at being a solution everyone accepts, thus defeating the reason for its existence in the first place.

>devuan isn't exactly blowing up the distrowatch charts
Considering that rank 5 is currently by a distro with systemd disabled by default (whatever value you want to put into distrowatch charts), I think it is hard to argue that there isn't at least *some* resistance.

>but they CAN make their own solution and that's the entire fucking point
Yeah of course and that is what happens again and again. Every time a group wants to create "the solution for everyone" they end up doing nothing but splitting the userbase again, thus utterly failing at what they set out to do.
If you are fine with this infinite fracturing, okay, but at least these projects shouldn't pretend that they are creating THE solution.

>makes popularity based argument and paints as '"we" vs "other"
>You're bringing identity into this!

what an actual 0 IQ moron, i bet you use the terminal because the hand eye coordination for a mouse frustrates you but a keyboard can be bashed enough and eventually work

MX is based on debian and includes systemd by default, i don't think it's popularity comes from being literally debian for people who don't like systemd

it's almost like it found a reasonable solution during a time of things moving forward and breaking everything in the progress, which is usually something that happens when things move forward

You all in this board are fucking stupid as hell, I remember why I left it god.

>MX is based on debian and includes systemd by default, i don't think it's popularity comes from being literally debian for people who don't like systemd
Yeah sure, but you are ignoring the point. systemd failed at becoming the standard, thus only creating more fracturing.

>it's almost like it found a reasonable solution during a time of things moving forward and breaking everything in the progress, which is usually something that happens when things move forward
Which is exactly what you are being accused of. You break things and your ""progress"" requires people to work around you.
The problem is that nobody WANTS to work around you, they don't want to find the solutions to the Problems you create for you distant glorious future.
Nobody wants your "progress" they want the things that they are doing now to work tomorrow too.

Your """Standard""" solution never does anything but creating two competing Standards. If you want to do that fine, but don't pretend otherwise...

What the fuck do you want, the entirety of linux to move to a new solution overnight?
Not even something as locked down as iOS gets people updating to new versions on compatible phones 100%

There is literally NO SUCH THING AS A """"STANDARD LINUX SOLUTION"""""""""""", what are you even on about? Holy fucking shit

Nobody wants to work around it, and yet software will deprecate your way of doing things by updating to work around it? What?

you made the right choice user. everyone is a fucking dumbass and usually has 40 post long arguments over the smallest and stupidest things. as you can see this is happening currently and it's sad

>What the fuck do you want, the entirety of linux to move to a new solution overnight?
No, are you dumb?
Can you not read, seriously, how did you get this from my post.

>There is literally NO SUCH THING AS A """"STANDARD LINUX SOLUTION"""""""""""", what are you even on about?
But again and again, people claim exactly that, "X is gonna replace Y" and in the end X and Y both exist.

>Nobody wants to work around it, and yet software will deprecate your way of doing things by updating to work around it? What?
???

archive.is/OjDAC sircmpwn samefagging exposed

>>The other way around. You don't launch xorg apps from Wayland but Wayland apps from xorg.
Okay so "QuartzX". Still shit.

He does this all the time. I'd wager he's in this thread right now.

Drink bleach Drew.

Xwayland won't start with ipv6 disabled.
Go ahead and try.

Why don't you just fork Wayland instead? Much better then writing a fuckhuge protocol

>"LMAO just build your own factory you plebs."
possibly with 3d printing you communist

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Everything freedesktoporg put out is shit and you all know it. I never understood why you faggots have so much influence in the Linux desktop world. You should all be told to fuck off and create your own little ecosystem