It is coming, Guise!

Nice

>neva 4getti

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LET'S MAKE A NEW OS THAT DOES SHIT, ISN'T EVEN COMPATIBLE WITH ITS LEGACY AND SPRINKLE SOME SHIT ON TOP!
WRITE THE APPS FOR POSIX OS? BULLSHIT, THIS IS MUCH BETTER!

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neat
Unfortunately, I've accepted that hardware support will continue to suck -- it's usable on hardware, but you can't just throw it onto your laptop and expect the most pleasant time.
It's a right shame, because Haiku is an impressive system.
The interface feels consistent and unified, the APIs are well designed, and it was designed from the start to be an actual desktop operating system. It's POSIX compatible, although the OS isn't really like *nix under the hood.

also, as someone who's been following this for like the last decade, I'm still just going to be eternally paranoid that it's still going to just lock up on me in the middle of shit
it's also still entirely single-user IIRC, like it's 1998
I don't really care about multiple user logons, but I do care about granular application permissions and being able to limit what certain applications can access.
like, fucking no one's going to bother attacking Haiku at least because it's obscure as shit, but that's not security

Why is Jow Forums filled with literal children and ESL idiots?

apex lel

youtube.com/watch?v=B5YokNW7tIs

It's great that these guys are still going, that said, this is 20 years too late to have any impact.

Pros: a full OS built directly for desktop use

Cons: Only useable on a day to day basis if your only need is e-mail, doesn't even have a decent browser and instead of porting Chromium or Firefox, they opted to make their own which is super slow and incompatible, thus zero addons. The OS architecture which was top notch back in the 90's has not aged gracefully, and there's no GPU hardware acceleration.

Very nice.

No, faggot. It's a microkernel OS with Unix-like userland that's almost entirely custom.

It works great for what it is. Drivers are better than any other small hobbyist OS and the installer and GUI work flawlessly.

It's not based on Linux, you shit for brains potato. Do you think that any system that isn't Winshit is automatically Linux? You're so fucking dumb that if you said that kind of moronic shit to my face I'd probably kick your teeth in and rip your balls off so you don't reproduce. What an imbicle.

>Pros: a full OS built directly for desktop use
just like windows and macos

>reeee stop making fun of things I like even though they are shit
>has no idea about the OS
>calls others children

>No, faggot. It's a microkernel OS with Unix-like userland that's almost entirely custom.
It's not custom, it's a BeOS clone. Also, do you like bait so much you have to write such long posts responding to it?

Would you say that Mach and FreeBSD were built for desktop use? I wouldn't, and that's where OS X comes from. Windows NT is a shitty mixture of DOS and VMS, and it's unfit to be used on anything, let alone a desktop.

No, doubleniggerfaggot, it's custom. They didn't use any BeOS code and it has evolved to a point where they're dropping binary compatibility with BeOS.

Nothing I said in that post was wrong.
it's not a research OS, it's not based on Linux anything, hardware support on an objective level still sucks, it's not a Unix-like, it's been known to lock up, and it's still entirely single-user.

>reeee stop making fun of things I like even though they are shit
You're a fucking idiot.

>calls others children
considering how low post quality has been on Jow Forums, they might as well fucking be

It is Unix-like. That's why it's partially POSIX compliant, or at least compliant enough to port Linux/Unix software like Bash which is the default shell.

Also, stop replying to stupid /v/ niggers. They can't wrap their pea brains around anything discussed here.

>No, faggot. It's a microkernel OS with Unix-like userland that's almost entirely custom.
It'a not a micro kernel at all, (I actually submitted patches to the project back when it was called OpenBeos), it's a monolithic kernel, everything runs in kernel space, including device drivers, file systems, networking.

The closest it ever was to be called anything remotely like a micro kernel was back in the commercial BeOS days when it had the networking in userspace, but it was too slow so they moved it into the kernel.

The fuck is your problem? I tried lots of obscure operating systems.
I tried:
>Plan9
>GNU/Hurd
>Inferno
>Haiku
>ReactOS
>OpenBSD
>RedoxOS
>NodeOS
>TempleOS
And guess what OS makes the least sense? Thats right, Haiku. It is something they could have implemented fully in linux userspace, but no, they had to make an os out of it. IT ISN'T EVEN COMPATIBLE WITH BEOS!
Todays takeaway: don't call others children, when you own point is childish. Now scram, fag.

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>back when it was called OpenBeos
>it's a monolithic kernel
It used to be monolithic with the ability load drivers like Linux. There was a fairly large rewrite some time ago. From the Wikipedia page:

>The Haiku kernel is a modular hybrid kernel and a fork of NewOS,[10] a modular kernel written by former Be Inc. engineer Travis Geiselbrecht. Like the rest of the system it is currently still under heavy development. Many features have been implemented, including a virtual file system (VFS) layer and rudimentary symmetric multiprocessing (SMP) support.

So maybe not a full microkernel in the sense that most of this stuff still runs in kernel space, though the modularity is certainly present, more so than systems like Linux. It's closer to the Mac OS X model.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haiku_(operating_system)

Who told you it isnt compatible with BeOS? Have you experienced any incompatibility? Have you got a bugticket?
Without more info this is just bullshit. Haiku have fairly well BeOS compatibility.

>So maybe not a full microkernel in the sense that most of this stuff still runs in kernel space

All the 'stuff' traditionally running in a monolothic kernel is running in kernel space on Haiku, which is, guess what, a MONOLITHIC kernel.

>though the modularity is certainly present, more so than systems like Linux.

What modularity would that be ? Please explain, you won't be able to because you don't know what the fuck you are talking about. I've participated in the actual development and have followed Haiku/OpenBeos development for 15+ years.

>It's closer to the Mac OS X model.
OSX is not a micro kernel either, the Mach component in OSX predates Mach going micro kernel, you don't know what you are talking about.

>The 64-bit version is not binary compatible with BeOS

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I came here to ask the same question. I smell a conspiracy here. Answers are needed.

>The 64-bit version is not binary compatible with an OS that was never 64-bit

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Thats the problem you idiot. They could have built it on top of linux, if it isn't binary compatible.

There is actual work on that field to make 32 bit programs usable on 64 bit OS.
But still: wtf, mate? There were no 64 bit BeOS, the Haiku download page tells clearly: 32 bit BeOS compatible, 64 bit not BeOS binary compatible.
Aaaand you telling Haiku is not BeOS compatible?
You are retarded, sorry mate.

>All the 'stuff' traditionally running in a monolothic kernel is running in kernel space on Haiku, which is, guess what, a MONOLITHIC kernel.
Brainlet.

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But the 32bit version is.
They had the chance to use linux as base, but they decided not to.
Fork if you wish and do that if you want.

>linux
Why would they build it on top of shit?

Why wouldn't they?

Performance, drivers, stability, functionality.

You know, everything that Haiku doesn't have.

Canada did 9/11

Canada is the answer to everything.

>is Canada the answer to everything?
>Canada

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None of these apply to Linux.

Keep deluding yourself.

github.com/haikuports/haikuports
Of interest to Archfags, their recipes are similar to PKGBUILDs.

>looks like a research os
Not really. It doesn't try new ideas or concepts, but instead remakes BeOS.

The fuck are you talking about? You obviously don't know shit and surely you didn't really try what you listed.
Openbsd is a modern, production ready OS, you objectively can't call it obscure and compare it to Inferno or God forbid TempleOS.

On top of that you just have a shit opinion since you think haiku makes more sense that Plan 9 (9front)

>openbsd
>you objectively can't call it obscure
This is next level butthurt

A modular monolithic is nothing like microkernel architecture. A modular monolithic kernel runs in a single shared address space with its modules. Microkernel uses separate address spaces. Microkernels are not about dynamic module loading. Linux and Haiku as well as XNU and NT are monolithic regardless of their "hybrid" marketing.

drivers for starters

640x480, like god said.

You’re the one deluding himself. Linux is a bloated, terrible kernel. As soon as Google switches to Fuchsia as their mobile OS, Linux will just be another server OS like FreeBSD, nothing more.

>Openbsd is a modern, production ready OS
doesn't even support SSD TRIM lol

Hello retard. Linux runs on all top 100 supercomputers, the vast majority of mobile devices, vast majority of servers, IoT, practically the entire cloud runs on Linux, all computing clusters run Linux. The only exception is the desktop, and the reason Windows dominate this space is due to them being in the top position when the PC market exploded, since it meant all new desktop/laptop computers shipped with Windows.

The enterprise has moved over to Linux, which is why Microsoft is desperately implementing a Linux subsystem in Windows to try stop the bleeding, it's also the reason they are putting more focus on Linux than their own OS on their Azure cloud offering.

That's what he said though. When Linux gets btfo on mobile devices b/c Google's PinkOS, Linux will remain purely as server system. That is popular doesn't also change anything about it being bloated and terrible.

>Linux will remain purely as server system.
Stop being retarded, Linux is dominant everywhere except on the desktop, if Fuchsia ever replaces Android (it's not even at a alpha stage yet) then Linux will still be dominant.

>That is popular doesn't also change anything about it being bloated and terrible.

Bloated compared to what ? If you offer the same amount of architecture and hardware support, you will end up having a big piece of code due to tons of drivers, there is no magic.

As for terrible, best overall performance, great stability, great hardware support and all of it OUT OF THE BOX which means it's supported everywhere Linux runs, which is EVERYWHERE.

If that is terrible, then the competition must be absolutely horrific.

Are you really stupid or just pretend to be?

I'm really stupid

Try not to argue like a 5 year old, 'it's terrible!', 'it's... it's bloated!'

>same amount of architecture and
>hardware support, you will end up having a big piece of code
yes, because Unix/Linux are bloat-prone as you had to put everything in the kernel
huge ammount of unnecessary anymore cruft lives in the kernel
which cannot be removed because it will break stuff elsewhere
microkernels don't have such an issue as drivers are in userland
also numerous communication mechanisms and overcomplexities on every corner
>best overall performance
>great hardware support
famous for being famous
people have invested to it and made numerous hacks for every case to increase perfomance
nevertheless pre-mentioned bloat has lead to perfomance decrease
Linux has not been designed, it has been evolved
>great stability
one driver gets fucked up, your entire systems gets fucked up
also in your previous post you said
>why Microsoft is desperately implementing a Linux subsystem
Windows ALWAYS had a Unix subsystem existent since the first Windows NT version
that is Windows had a Unix environment available before Linux was even created
the ability to support multiple subsystems was what lead to NT
beyond that NT (the kernel) has been designed, not merely evolved
Windows failed for servers as it was/is? too expensive and Unix was already prevelant
also Linux is free, if a bug is found you can fix it (or your engineers) yourself
nothing to do with being any better, similar to how Windows rules desktops because MS' marketing
stop being a fanboy, Linux isn't the holy grail
theregister.co.uk/2009/09/22/linus_torvalds_linux_bloated_huge/
eweek.com/enterprise-apps/linux-founder-linus-torvalds-still-wants-the-desktop

answer

The point of Haiku is that it is designed for the desktop. Everything is cohesive and made for a desktop experience.

Most Linux boxes don't even run X, and many people talk about how X is cruft and we need Wayland. But Linux is not a cohesive system, it's parts that you glue together to make an OS. Haiku is an OS designed from the ground up for desktop use, it wouldn't make sense as a Linux DE.

Speaking of Linux DE's, Xfce can be turned into a decent Haiku lookalike with a WM theme, Deskbar layout for taskbar, gtk theme and icons. Pic related, but I have no fucking idea what I was doing with that dock

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>i-its not linux guys i swear
lmao

It's functional... Well, as much as something based on an OS that died out 18 years ago and was resurrected in the form of a reimplemtation of said dead OS and has languished in development hell for years can be.

Until it supports modern hardware and APIs, not really interested.

it's the 5-min-test-in-vm-and-delete os

YEET

>yes, because Unix/Linux are bloat-prone as you had to put everything in the kernel
Drivers are what takes up the largest amount of space, and you can easily compile Linux with just the hardware support you need, furthermore they are loaded as modules when needed (detected), so they don't even take up RAM unless they are being used.

>huge ammount of unnecessary anymore cruft lives in the kernel
Like what ? Linux is pruning stuff all the time, including whole hardware architectures.

>which cannot be removed because it will break stuff elsewhere
How the fuck is in unnecessary if it breaks stuff elsewhere, make some sense.

>microkernels don't have such an issue as drivers are in userland
What fucking difference does it make if the drivers are shipped in userland rather than in the kernel ? You still need them available, and as I already stated, you can easily compile a stripped Linux kernel with ONLY THE DRIVERS YOU NEED.

>also numerous communication mechanisms and overcomplexities on every corner
You must be talking about micro kernel's here, because one of the great benefits of monolithic kernels is how easy communication become.

>nevertheless pre-mentioned bloat has lead to perfomance decrease
Show me an example

>Linux has not been designed, it has been evolved
What is your point ? By rewriting, improving and throwing out what didn't work, Linux has EVOLVED into the most overall performant kernel available today, with great hardware support and stability.

And independent of all the planning they may have had, every other OS in use today has also EVOLVED into what they are now.

>one driver gets fucked up, your entire systems gets fucked up
Which is true for Windows, OSX, and all the BSD's as well. Now, if the drivers were shitty and Linux et al kept crashing all the time, the industry would have went with micro kernels and the performance cost they entail, HOWEVER, the reality is that Linux et al are VERY STABLE, which is why 99% of todays computing runs on MONOLITHIC kernels enjoying the much better performance.

>Windows ALWAYS had a Unix subsystem existent since the first Windows NT version
Windows has recently added a specific LINUX subsystem, based on Ubuntu, because enterprise development is being done on Linux these days.

>Windows failed for servers as it was/is? too expensive
It was less performant on the same hardware, despite having a specific OS version dedicated to servers, yet it was beaten to oblivion by the LAMP stack.

>stop being a fanboy, Linux isn't the holy grail
Of course not, eventually it will be replaced by something else, but not by any of the currently available 'competition'.

This guy gets it.
It's designed to fit properly for desktop use, where each user has multiple processors and uses a GUI. No other OS is designed for desktop use, it's just bodged in.

Oh, and it's not like the FAQ addresses why they didn't use Linux or anything.
haiku-os.org/about/faq/#why-not-linux

32-to-64 bit support is coming so you'll finally be able to run the 5 apps that were made for BeOS.

To the point, you're a real basedfriend if you think Linux, a monolithic kernel, is a good fit for the Haiku userspace (or a good kernel period)

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bloat isn't about disk size or RAM usage, but about code quantity
it makes difficult for developers to maintain the kernel or contribute to it
>How the fuck is in unnecessary if it breaks stuff elsewhere
because it isn't well written but a pile of hacks thrown together
follow the mailing lists and you'll see those are a recurring issue
>What fucking difference does it make if the drivers are shipped in userland rather than in the kernel
drivers have to be better designed and fairly abstracted
there will be no such thing as rewrite for particular architecture
result is easier maintenance and less bloat
>Show me an example
said by Linus himself, read the articles I linked to
there is a limit how much you can rewrite/improve before bad design becomes obvious
again said my Linus himself, check articles and follow the mailing lists
switching is hard and more importantly expensive
stability is enough for no one to care
>99% of todays computing runs on MONOLITHIC kernels enjoying the much better performance
every modern x64 CPU runs Minix on ring -3
at least this shows that microkernels are viable already
but good enough stability and great performance is better than great stability and downgraded performance
or it was, that's why Google develops PinkOS
>specific OS version dedicated to servers
Windows Server is the same as desktop version but different preinstalled programs, not different than Ubuntu and Ubuntu Server
>It was less performant on the same hardware
source?

is basedfriend a filter? I can't understand your post. please explain in normalfag terminology.

Linus himself has a little bloat

wait I thought they used another microkernel (L4)

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I'm excited.

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So someone explain the single user thing. That sounds incredibly insecure.

Parts of the OS have multi-user support but not enough to actually be multi-user. This was deemed less important than a lot of other things that needed to be done.

Single user is root, everything runs as root all the time. Later BeOS versions tried to implement multi-user, but they were shut down before any real work could be done.

So it’s trash then. Got it.
I’d honestly look to Genode or Fuchsia for my barely-developed meme OS needs. I can’t really wrap my head around how capabilities are supposed to work, but it at least is clear that they’re being forward-thinking about security. Haiku seems backwards even from where we are today.

>bloat isn't about disk size or RAM usage, but about code quantity it makes difficult for developers to maintain the kernel or contribute to it
The developers work on specific subsystems, with a maintainer assigned to each subsystem, expert in that area. People don't just jump around in the code willy nilly, have you ever worked on a large scale project ?

>because it isn't well written but a pile of hacks thrown together
Such bullshit, show me an actual example.

>follow the mailing lists and you'll see those are a recurring issue
Show me examples, anytime Linus comes across a hack he screams bloody murder, which in turn is reiterated across the tech press.

>drivers have to be better designed and fairly abstracted
No they don't, they will be as 'abstracted' as the surrounding api allows, which is exactly the same case as with monolithic kernels. There is nothing making driver code quality inherently better because it is in user space, the only advantage is that if it crashes, it won't crash the system.

>there will be no such thing as rewrite for particular architecture
What ?

>said by Linus himself, read the articles I linked to
This is what he actually said:
>We are definitely not the streamlined, hyper-efficient kernel I envisioned when I started writing Linux," Linux is also not the limited-purpose/function kernel I initially envisioned.

Yet Linux outperforms it's competitors, which is why whenever performance is key, Linux is being used (with one exception, FreeBSD networking performance, which is why Netflix runs everything on Linux, encoding, frontend, database, except networking where they use FreeBSD)

does it have filepicker thumbnails?

>there is a limit how much you can rewrite/improve before bad design becomes obvious
Are you daft, you rewrite/improve POOR DESIGN. This is one of the key reasons that Linux does not offer a stable kernel ABI, so that they are NOT locked into a poor design (Hello Windows!).

>every modern x64 CPU runs Minix on ring -3
No, Intel x64 runs Minix on ring-3, AMD does not.

>at least this shows that microkernels are viable already
As a launcher for a web server in your fucking CPU, yay, show me any use which requires top notch performance.

>or it was, that's why Google develops PinkOS
And we've seen jack squat concerning it's performance, which we won't see until it's actually deployed. I'm sure it will be good enough to run mobile phones though, which is what it's for, you won't run your servers/clusters on it.

so Linux is hard to beat?
what do you think this, capitalism?

Can it do 3d accel yet?
Does it have a browser which doesn't kill itself after opening a few websites?

I forked this shit to make it less, basedless.

I forked this shit to add less ßoy filled and to make fun of MundaneFat

>great hardware support

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delet

>b-but it'll die soon, just you wait!
Textbook definition of delusion.

what is boy filled?

Canada